davidnazee:


[s]Your fish brain only knows and celebrate myths and unfounded claims.. you have been using myths to challenge real and documented history.
Ife was just a village that had a great oracle from whom people from different places came to seek divination and when people got tired of the oracle Ife faded away. That was why all the early writers you referenced never saw Ife, only heard rumours of a certain place whose name they weren’t sure of and whose ruler was insignificant that they didn’t bother to go visit.
Yet all those historians visited Benin and recorded it as a great and mighty Kingdom which ruled over vast majority of Yorubaland. From the time the first Portuguese set foot on these parts till the British took over was a timeline of over 400yrs and Benin was recorded as the greatest Kingdom all that time and Ife was non existent.[/s]

Benin myths ?? ?? ??


Give the phone to your parents. Youre obviously not capable.

TAO11:


I will deal with you until there is no Benin lie left on your tongue.



Let's see how this fabricated Edo story of Ekaladerhan is being regarded in academia the world over:

The story that a certain prince Ekaladerhan found his way to Ife and became king there under the name Odudduwa has long been debunked and trashed, by experts in academia the world over, as an over ambitious myth.

A case is point is the submission of Dmitri M. Bondarenko, of the Institute for African Studies in the Russian Academy of Sciences, who is without doubt the most prolific and (arguably) the leading authority on Benin History in the world today. He writes and I quote here:

"Finally, there are the apocryphal versions of Benin oral tradition. ... (wherein) Ekaladerhan ... Some time later ... left Gwato for Ife."

"According to other versions of the kind, after leaving Gwato, Ekaladerhan founded another settlement, Ile-Ife and became her first ruler under the name of Oduduwa."

D. M. Bondarenko wrapped up his assessment of this apocryphal account (after having combed thoroughly through its different versions) by submitting that:

"However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hesitation as deliberately unauthentic. There are no their records made before the early 1970s ..."

In other words, the apocryphal and deliberately unauthentic account which states that Ekalederhan became king in Ife are non-existent before the 1970s.

D. M. Bondarenko then puts the final nail in the coffin by submitting that:

"There is no doubt that the apocryphal versions are not authentic and are not popular. Their authors are representatives of the nationalistically-minded part of the Bini intelligentsia who are seeking to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people and claims for its exclusive part in the socio political life of independent Nigeria ... Behind such pseudohistorical studies by intellectuals, as if harmless, one can make out serious problems for the country ..."


Reference: Dmitri M. Bondarenko, "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point", History in Africa, Vol. 30 (2003), pp. 67 - 68, Cambridge University Press.

And did Mr. Dmitri accept that Oduduwa fell from the sky or trekked from Mecca to Ife? What was his conclusion on the origin of Oduduwa?
You are as confused as Dmitri.

TAO11:


Benin myths ?? ?? ??


Give the phone to your parents. Youre obviously not capable.

Because you know Ife has no credible history you are trying to drag Benin down to its level lol. Defend your Ife if truly it was great like you say.

davidnazee:


And did Mr. Dmitri accept that Oduduwa fell from the sky or trekked from Mecca to Ife? What was his conclusion on the origin of Oduduwa?
You are as confused as Dmitri.

Wait, he quickly changed topic when he sees that his beloved Izoduwa is a fairytale. Izoduwa vanished before his eyes!

They want to steal our Yoruba star boy Oduduwa by force by fire --- Who know like better thing??


One more time: Where is is Mr Idu and Mr Igodo from??

From the sky?? Egypt?? Ife??

davidnazee:


[s]Because you know Ife has no credible history you are trying to drag Benin down to its level lol. Defend your Ife if truly it was great like you say.[/s]

Of course I have cited you expert submission on Ife on the thread where I first encountered you. Guess what you did!

You japa never to return there!!! Even with a blank check oo

TAO11:


Wait, he quickly changed topic when he sees that his beloved Izoduwa is a fairytale. Izoduwa vanished before his eyes!

They want to steal star boy Oduduwa by force by fire --- Who know lime better thing??


One more time: Where is is Mr Idu and Mr Igodo from??

From the sky?? Egypt?? Ife??

You are shaking with shame now. You cannot proudly defend your idiotic claim that oduduwa is a full blooded Yoruba man and cannot even support the theory that he trekked from Mecca to Ife because that theory is foolish..
unlike you Yorubas we don’t need a foreigner to prove our history or our myths.
Oduduwa your star boy is a foreigner to Yoruba and an exiled prince from Benin.
You don’t have to accept it but it is more true than your foolish theories of the fallen angel or great trekker from Mecca.

TAO11:


Of course I have cited you expert submission on Ife on the thread where I first encountered you. Guess what you did!

You japa never to return there!!! Even with a blank check oo

No.. the only submissions you made was claims that Benin worship Ooni of Ife. And that was all you could say about Ife. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Let me add to your submission by saying this fact; Ife was a small village that had a strong native doctor.

davidnazee:

[s]You are shaking with shame now. You cannot proudly defend your idiotic claim that oduduwa is a full blooded Yoruba man and cannot even support the theory that he trekked from Mecca to Ife because that theory is foolish..
unlike you Yorubas we don’t need a foreigner to prove our history or our myths.
Oduduwa your star boy is a foreigner to Yoruba and an exiled prince from Benin.
You don’t have to accept it but it is more true than your foolish theories of the fallen angel or great trekker from Mecca.[/s]

Shaking with shame

I have written extensively on Oduduwa on the same thread where I once slaughtered you. You did not but jump am pass.

And I have mentioned here more than twice that Oduduwa is Yoruba full blooded Ife-Yoruba

Is your skull too thick to grasp that??

Now try and help yourself by answering this question:

Where did Mr Idu and Mr Igodo trek or drop from??

davidnazee:


[s]No.. the only submissions you made was claims that Benin worship Ooni of Ife. And that was all you could say about Ife. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Let me add to your submission by saying this fact; Ife was a small village that had a strong native doctor.[/s]

Ahn Ahn! Why are you lying na??

Wait, I'm asking why davidnazee-the-liar is lying. That's his job!

Anyways, let me disgrace you (like I did on your Izoduwa) by pasting the link this time around:

These two sneak-peeks below are from the same thread where I slaughtered you. You simply jump am pass rather than say a word.


https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/15#87973642

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/15#87982980

TAO11:


Shaking with shame

I have written extensively on Oduduwa on the same thread where I once slaughtered you. You did not but jump am pass.

And I have mentioned here more than twice that Oduduwa is Yoruba full blooded Ife-Yoruba

Is your skull too thick to grasp that??

Now try and help yourself by answering this question:

Where did Mr Idu and Mr Igodo trek or drop from??

Oduduwa is not originally from Yoruba. If you like keep lying to yourself it will never become truth for you.
Oduduwa is a foreigner to Yoruba. Even your tradition agrees to it.

TAO11:


Ahn Ahn! Why are you lying na??

Wait, I'm asking why davidnazee-the-liar is lying.

That's his job.

Anyways, let me disgrace you (like I did on your Izoduwa) by pasting the link this time around:

Abeg quick question, are you really a girl?

davidnazee:


[s]Abeg quick question, are you really a girl?[/s]

You want to begin an ultimate search for me because in few weeks, I demolished a legacy of Benin lies which has been built since the year 1970.


No, I'm Oduduwa!

davidnazee:


[s]Oduduwa is not originally from Yoruba. If you like keep lying to yourself it will never become truth for you.
Oduduwa is a foreigner to Yoruba. Even your tradition agrees to it.[/s]

Your skull is too thick.

Oduduwa is a fool-blooded Yoruba. IFE


And you haven't answered where your supposed ancestors Mr Idu and Mr Igodo treked or dropped from.
Are you ashamed to answer??

TAO11:


You want to begin an ultimate search for me because in few weeks, I demolished a legacy of Benin lies which has been built since the year 1970.


No, I'm Oduduwa!

You are a goat lol.
I thought we are in the same country that’s why I asked.

TAO11:


Your skull is too thick.

Oduduwa is a fool-blooded Yoruba. IFE


And you haven't answered where your supposed ancestors Mr Idu and Mr Igodo treked or dropped from.
Are you ashamed to answer??

I don’t know where my ancestors migrated from, everyone must have migrated from someplace at sometime.. but we don’t have any myth about a stranger and foreigner trekking to Igodomigodo to become the father of Edo people.

davidnazee:

[s]You are a goat lol.
I thought we are in the same country that’s why I asked.[/s]

This Benin lying rat is desperately looking for clues in order to begin its ultimate search.

Well, no clue shall be given to it except to continue flogging it and its ilks on Nairaland until there is not a single Benin lie left on its tongue no more.

You shall leave Nairaland better than you come into it, courtesy yours truly.

TAO11:


This Benin lying rat is looking for a clues in order to begin its ultimate search.

Well, no clue shall be given to it except to continue flogging it and its ilks on Nairaland until there is not a single Benin lie left on its tongue no more.

You shall leave Nairaland better than you come into it, courtesy yours truly.

Shut up.. you said u were in the same time zone with me yesterday..
anyways have you come up with the answer to where Oduduwa originally came from??

davidnazee:


I don’t know where my ancestors migrated from,

[s]everyone must have migrated from someplace at sometime..[/s]

but we don’t have any MYTH about a stranger and foreigner trekking to Igodomigodo to become the father of Edo people.

Awwwwwwwwwww! Sincerely I kind of feel for you right now that you have absolutely no clue where you're from. What a pity!??

But is that why you think everyone else must go down with you

It's a fallacy that everyone must have migrated from somewhere. This fallacy is induced by your low self-esteem and inferiority complex.

Evolution or Creation must have sometimes began and at some place or at different places at the same time. Pick yourself up, okay?

And lastly about the Myth: Yes you DO have all kinds of myth --- a notable one is of migration of some groups from Ufe --- You have myths, okay? A notable one among them is called Iso Norho.

davidnazee:


Shut up.. you said u were in the same time zone with me yesterday..

[s]anyways have you come up with the answer to where Oduduwa originally came from??[/s]

So that you do not get the clue which you desperately want, I will not agree with your assertion here, neither will I disagree with it --- at least not now.

All I will ask you to do is produce a screenshot or link to where we had this particular discussion, I just want to check something.


Cheers

TAO11:
The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin kingdom starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial take over of Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.


(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if one argues that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274431270_Early_primary_glass_production_in_southern_Nigeria

Orun Oba Ado --- SEALED! Q. E. D.


Moving on the the OGANE or OGHENE topic while you all struggle for life on this one.

MetaPhysical OgboAto gomojam

You are a Legend. You should be conferred with the title of "Amoye Agbaye".

The government should compile all your comment on this thread and make it a curriculum for the students (Primary - tertiary) in Benin land so that they can understand their history and be forever grateful to their Yoruba master.

LegendHero:


You are a Legend. You should be conferred with the title of "Amoye Agbaye".

The government should compile all your comment on this thread and make it a curriculum for the students (Primary - tertiary) in Benin land so that they can understand their history and be forever grateful to their Yoruba master.

Hahaha!

Thank you so much. I appreciate.

TAO11:


So that you do not get the clue which you desperately want, I will not agree with your assertion here, neither will I disagree with it --- at least not now.

All I will ask you to do is produce a screenshot or link to where we had this particular discussion, I just want to check something.


Cheers

It wasn’t a direct discussion between us. You just mentioned the time at your location and it was same as mine.
Anyways let’s leave that. Just tell me your own opinion of where oduduwa came from.. or trekked from lol.

davidnazee:

It wasn’t a direct discussion between us. You just mentioned the time at your location and it was same as mine.
Anyways let’s leave that. Just tell me your own opinion of where oduduwa came from.. or trekked from lol.

I dont care what it is!

If you want your assertions to be taken seriously, then you better be ready to substantiate them. Otherwise hold your lips and avoid been embarrassed.

This is the same lesson for today that I've been "knacking" into your skull. You see your life??


Your ignorance is self-inflicted.

For the umpteenth time, Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Are you deaf or blind?

Bro: LegendHero : there is also an important comment which I will like you to see oo.

I will add the link now:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/14#87905826

Please remeber to also share these comments oo lol.

I really wish that a lot of our people will have the facts to shut all those Benin liars up.


Thanks as you share.

TAO11:


I dont care what it is!

If you want your assertions to be taken seriously, then you better be ready to substantiate them. Otherwise hold your lips and avoid been embarrassed.

This is the same lesson for today that I've been "knacking" into your skull. You see your life??


Your ignorance is self-inflicted.

For the umpteenth time, Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Are you deaf or blind?

Why are you still lying to yourself? You like quoting writers and scholars why are you not reading their writings about the origin of oduduwa? Abi shame Dey catch you?

Truth is ododuwa is a foreigner who came to Ife and became a ruler. Before Oduduwa came Ife was nothing.. Ife’s greatness is credited to Oduduwa a foreigner.

TAO11:


I will deal with you until there is no Benin lie left on your tongue.



Let's see how this fabricated Edo story of Ekaladerhan is being regarded in academia the world over:

The story that a certain prince Ekaladerhan found his way to Ife and became king there under the name Odudduwa has long been debunked and trashed, by experts in academia the world over, as an over ambitious myth.

A case is point is the submission of Dmitri M. Bondarenko, of the Institute for African Studies in the Russian Academy of Sciences, who is without doubt the most prolific and (arguably) the leading authority on Benin History in the world today. He writes and I quote here:

"Finally, there are the apocryphal versions of Benin oral tradition. ... (wherein) Ekaladerhan ... Some time later ... left Gwato for Ife."

"According to other versions of the kind, after leaving Gwato, Ekaladerhan founded another settlement, Ile-Ife and became her first ruler under the name of Oduduwa."

D. M. Bondarenko wrapped up his assessment of this apocryphal account (after having combed thoroughly through its different versions) by submitting that:

"However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hesitation as deliberately unauthentic. There are no their records made before the early 1970s ..."

In other words, the apocryphal and deliberately unauthentic account which states that Ekalederhan became king in Ife are non-existent before the 1970s.

Whether the Ekaladerhan story is true or not, Dmitri Bondarenko was wrong when he stated that "However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hesitation as deliberately unauthentic. There are no their records made before the early 1970s ..."

R.E. Bradbury actually documented the story in the 1950s. It is in the archive of his field notes.

"They went on to discredit the palace’s assertions that the last known Ogiso-era prince, the exiled Ekaladerhan, was identical to the Ifẹ dynasty’s founder Oduduwa, a viewpoint they attributed to the late Ọba Erediauwa. While the Ọba did publicize this historical version, he was not its originator, for it had already been recorded at least as early as the 1950s, when R. E. Bradbury was researching in Benin..."

"Although Bradbury’s archives are publicly available at the Birmingham University Library, they are not digitized and therefore authors such as Bondarenko (“Advent of the Second [Oba] Dynasty, 2003, 68 and Akinola (“The Origin of the Eweka Dynasty of Benin, 1976) attribute the Ekaladerhan story to shifting political goals in the 1970s. This alternative story, however, existed at least two decades before.

Reference: Kathy Curnow - "Sensemaking in Benin Kingdom Oral Traditions: Repetitive Recall of Actual and Traditional Enmity between the Ọba and the Ogiamiẹn", Umẹwaẹn: Journal of Benin and Ẹdo Studies, Vol. 2, 2017, pp. 37 - 38

Bondarenko is on the editorial advisory board of the Umewaen journal so he most likely has already read the 2017 article by Curnow by now, and is probably aware that his statement about the story not appearing before the 1970s is not correct.

SilverSniper:


Whether the Ekaladerhan story is true or not, Dmitri Bondarenko was wrong when he stated that "However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hesitation as deliberately unauthentic. There are no their records made before the early 1970s ..."

R.E. Bradbury actually documented the story in the 1950s. It is in the archive of his field notes.

"They went on to discredit the palace’s assertions that the last known Ogiso-era prince, the exiled Ekaladerhan, was identical to the Ifẹ dynasty’s founder Oduduwa, a viewpoint they attributed to the late Ọba Erediauwa. While the Ọba did publicize this historical version, he was not its originator, for it had already been recorded at least as early as the 1950s, when R. E. Bradbury was researching in Benin..."

"Although Bradbury’s archives are publicly available at the Birmingham University Library, they are not digitized and therefore authors such as Bondarenko (“Advent of the Second [Oba] Dynasty, 2003, 68 and Akinola (“The Origin of the Eweka Dynasty of Benin, 1976) attribute the Ekaladerhan story to shifting political goals in the 1970s. This alternative story, however, existed at least two decades before.

Reference: Kathy Curnow - "Sensemaking in Benin Kingdom Oral Traditions: Repetitive Recall of Actual and Traditional Enmity between the Ọba and the Ogiamiẹn", Umẹwaẹn: Journal of Benin and Ẹdo Studies, Vol. 2, 2017, pp. 37 - 38

Bondarenko is on the editorial advisory board of the Umewaen journal so he most likely has already read the 2017 article by Curnow by now, and is probably aware that his statement about the story not appearing before the 1970s is not correct.

Good to know! I will look up the reference you provided and revert.

But for certain, it is an apocryphal account. Nothing of such is heard of in the earliest accounts on Benin history.

And the account here as quoted doesn't necessarilly say the same thing as what Bondarenko refuted.

This account here seem to me to clearly identify the two characters as separate and distinct individuals

TAO11:
Bro: LegendHero : there is also an important comment which I will like you to see oo.

I will add the link now:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/14#87905826

Please remeber to also share these comments oo lol.

I really wish that a lot of our people will have the facts to shut all those Benin liars up.


Thanks as you share.

Sorry for the late reply. I have been reading all your posts line by line like a student reading for his final year exam.

Infact, I diligently watched all the videos you posted and I will definitely read the link you put up here.

TAO11 Odua a gbe e o.

davidnazee:

[s]Why are you still lying to yourself? You like quoting writers and scholars why are you not reading their writings about the origin of oduduwa? Abi shame Dey catch you?
Truth is ododuwa is a foreigner who came to Ife and became a ruler. Before Oduduwa came Ife was nothing.. Ife’s greatness is credited to Oduduwa a foreigner.[/s]

That you don't know where you're from doesn't necessarily mean that other don't.

Oduduwa is Yoruba from Ife.

Kill yourself!

davidnazee:


Why are you still lying to yourself? You like quoting writers and scholars why are you not reading their writings about the origin of oduduwa? Abi shame Dey catch you?

Truth is ododuwa is a foreigner who came to Ife and became a ruler. Before Oduduwa came Ife was nothing.. Ife’s greatness is credited to Oduduwa a foreigner.

I’m waiting for your answer.. How is Oduduwa originally a Yoruba man when he is described as someone who migrated from Mecca or Benin to become a ruler in Ife.

And did Oduduwa establish Ife Kingdom or Ife was already existing as a great Kingdom before oduduwa came?

TAO11:

Let's see how this fabricated Edo story of Ekaladerhan is being regarded in academia the world over:

It may not be that simple.

Stefan Eisenhofer (an academic, and a historian affiliated with the University of Munich and the Museum für Völkerkunde in Munich), suggested the story as possibly having earlier antecedents.

Reference: Stefan Eisenhofer - "The Origins of the Benin Kingship in the Works of Jacob Egharevba", History in Africa, Vol. 22 (1995)

davidnazee:


[s]I’m waiting for your answer.. How is Oduduwa originally a Yoruba man when he is described as someone who migrated from Mecca or Benin to become a ruler in Ife.

And did Oduduwa establish Ife Kingdom or Ife was already existing as a great Kingdom before oduduwa came?[/s]

How is greatgrand father you an Edo?





Are you going to pay me for history lessons??

If you are coming as a debater who thinks he knows stuff be clear.


If you're coming as an humble ignoramous who wants to learn, be clear.


You can't pretend to both at the same.


No be clear! Which one are you?