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Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife - Culture (12) - Nairaland

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Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:16am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


That you don't know where you're from doesn't necessarily mean that other don't.

Oduduwa is Yoruba from Ife.

Kill yourself!

Lol you are a real suegbe.. you cannot even support your claim that Oduduwa is originally a Yoruba man with evidence. I don’t want to embarrass you further by posting the works of historians that say oduduwa is a foreigner to Yoruba.. same historians that u have been referencing.. it will be too much for u to handle.

Now please tell me, did Oduduwa establish Ife Kingdom or was Ife already existing as a great Kingdom before oduduwa came?
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:17am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


It may not be that simple.

Stefan Eisenhofer (an academic, and a historian affiliated with the University of Munich and the Museum für Völkerkunde in Munich), suggested the story as possibly having earlier antecedents.

Reference: Stefan Eisenhofer - "The Origins of the Benin Kingship in the Works of Jacob Egharevba", History in Africa, Vol. 22 (1995)

Yeah, but that's a probabilistic suggestion.

And we can't see any such antecedent anywhere in the earliest accounts.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:19am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:


[s]Lol you are a real suegbe.. you cannot even support your claim that Oduduwa is originally a Yoruba man with evidence. I don’t want to embarrass you further by posting the works of historians that say oduduwa is a foreigner to Yoruba.. same historians that u have been referencing.. it will be too much for u to handle.

Now please tell me, did Oduduwa establish Ife Kingdom or was Ife already existing as a great Kingdom before oduduwa came?[/s]

At the point when I'm convinced of your humility to learn, then I will treat you accordingly as a student.

But now as a proud ignoramous that you make yourself, no mercy for you --- you shall be continuously rubbished.


I already know that you know nothing. I have talked to you enough to know.

So, stop pretending like you can have a debate.


Ask question and be humble, then you may get a fair treatment.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:22am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


At the point when I'm convinced of your humility to learn then I will treat you accordingly as a student.

But now as a proud ignoramous that you make yourself, no mercy for you --- you shall be continuously rubbished.

Stop speaking nonsense and just proudly answer the question. Or are you scared of what may come after?
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:23am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:
In the year 1961 the prominent archaeologist, Frank Willett began conducting archaeological excavation of a number of ancient sites in ife.

The relevant one here is his 1961-2 archaeological excavation of the Orun Oba Ado site, where he made some finds which I find to be astoundingly outstanding.

The archaeological excavations of the "Orun Oba Ado" site established that the burial pits there date to several centuries before they could possibly have been used to bury any Obas of Benin. They are dated from about 560 AD (mid-6th century) to around 900 AD at the latest.

The dates don't work at all. Probably it was used for something else for centuries then someone with an active imagination decided to portray it as a burial site of kings and the idea stuck or became some sort of tradition. It's not uncommon for traditions to arise out of myths of course.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:24am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:


[s]Stop speaking nonsense and just proudly answer the question. Or are you scared of what may come after?[/s]

I think 10 steps ahead of you, okay? So calm down.

You're still haughty.

Now, I'm about to ask you to go away and let your parents talk to me.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:25am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Yeah, but that's a probabilistic suggestion.

And we can't see any such antecedent anywhere in the earliest accounts.

Actually, in the article, Eisenhofer provides a suggestion of a much earlier antecedent himself, in a note on p. 159.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:27am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


The archaeological excavations of the "Orun Oba Ado" site established that the burial pits there date to several centuries before they could possibly have used to bury any Obas of Benin. They are dated from about 560 AD (mid-6th century) to around 900 AD at the latest.

The dates don't work at all. Probably it was used for something else for centuries then someone with an active imagination decided to portray it as a burial site of kings and the idea stuck or became some sort of tradition. It's not uncommon for traditions to arise out of myths of course.

Somebody went to hire you. Lol.

Well, not the piits particularly, but certain charcoal samples at the same site. And the datings vary.

And there is nothing that suggests that a site could not have been occupied for different purposes over the centuries.


You seem to want to trust the suggestion of Eisenhofer but some how want to disregard the actual find of Willett which he himself called "burial pits".

What happened to consistency
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:28am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


Actually, in the article, Eisenhofer provides a suggestion of a much earlier antecedent himself, in a note on p. 159.

That's the point --- suggestion.

But there is no substantiation for such.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:30am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Somebody went ro hire you. Lol.

Well, not the piits particularly, but certain charcoal samples at the same site.

The datings vary. And there is nothing that suggests that a site could not have been occupied for different purposes over the centuries.

lol, no nobody "went to hire me".

The entire site is way too early. I've read the actual archaeological report years ago. There's nothing there that suggests that it was being used as some burial site for Benin Obas. It was most likely used for something else.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:30am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


I think 10 steps ahead of you, okay? So calm down.

You're still haughty.

Now, I'm about to ask you to go away and let your parents talk to me.

You have been proven to be a dull child numerous times.
All your foolish analysis and citations didn’t tell you where Oduduwa originally came from.

You will soon run away in shame.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:31am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


lol, no nobody "went to hire me".

The entire site is way too early. I've read the actual archaeological report years ago. There's nothing there that suggests that it was being used as some burial site for Benin Obas. It was most likely used for something else.

Except the find of burial pits, right.

Nobody said human remains have to be found.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:31am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Somebody went to hire you. Lol.

Well, not the piits particularly, but certain charcoal samples at the same site. And the datings vary.

And there is nothing that suggests that a site could not have been occupied for different purposes over the centuries.


You seem to want to trust the suggestion of Eisenhofer but some want to disregard the actual find of Willett which he himself called "burial pits".

Damm you are a real fool.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:33am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:


[s]You have been proven to be a dull child numerous times.
All your foolish analysis and citations didn’t tell you where Oduduwa originally came from.
You will soon run away in shame.[/s]

Except that that wasnt the focus of my flogging.

Anyway, Oduduwa is Ife.

I don't have to repeat it humdred times before you hear.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:33am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:

You seem to want to trust the suggestion of Eisenhofer but some want to disregard the actual find of Willett which he himself called "burial pits".

I was just directing you to an academic source which had a different idea about the story, not saying I "trust it" as some sort of confirmed truth.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:34am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:

Damm you are a real fool.

Like your your Edo ancestors whom we cam to subjugate for about 1000 years and still counting?
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:35am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


I was just directing you to an academic source which had a different idea about the story, not saying I "trust it" as some sort of confirmed truth.

Yeah, I get but it's not definitive.

So what do we do in such case?

Discard what is definitive for some speculations?
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:35am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Except the find of burial pits, right.

Nobody said human remains have to be found.

I never said human remains have to be found, but I think you might be missing the point that the whole site is centuries too early. That's all I was pointing out. You can conclude what you want from that.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:37am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


I never said human remains have to be found, but I think you might be missing the point that the whole site is centuries too early. That's all I was pointing out. You can conclude what you want from that.

For God sake my fathers burial site was once a farm.

How does that change anything?


In fact, it is impossible that such public sites would have been put to some use for the first time in Ife's history in the c.1300, etc.

You seem to always want to go with the impossibles and highly unlimelies at rhe expense of the highly likelys and certains.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:41am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


For God sake my fathers burial site was once a farm.

How does that change anything?

How does it change anything? The burial pits, and the whole site, are from a completely different time (several centuries earlier) from when they could be used for what they supposedly were used for. The place is most likely something that has been reinterpreted to something different from whatever its actual historical function was.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:42am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Like your your Edo ancestors whom we cam to subjugate for about 1000 years and still counting?

Hahaha.. who subjugated who? Who ruled over who? You are a joker.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:45am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


How does it change anything? The burial pits, and the whole site, are from a completely different time (several centuries earlier) from when they could be used for what they supposedly were used for. The place is most likely something that has been reinterpreted to something different from whatever its actual historical function was.

You are missing my point. And nobody dated the "pits". Only some charcoal samples, etc. found at the site below surface level.

And my question is that: Could the same plot of a site be put to different use over the course of time?

1 Like

Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:46am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:


Hahaha.. who subjugated who? Who ruled over who? You are a joker.

Ife subjugated Edo.

Ogiso is still fighting in court till tomorrow.

1 Like

Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:51am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Except that that wasnt the focus of my flogging.

Anyway, Oduduwa is Ife.

I don't have to repeat it humdred times before you hear.

Do you know that it was shortly after oduduwa established Ife he is said to have sent his grandson Oranmiyan to rule in Edo? So we can assume it was around 30yrs after he conquered and established Ife Kingdom that he went to Benin which already had an organized society and a monarchy system in place hundreds of years before Oduduwa established kingship in Ife. Ife before Oduduwa was an unknown settlement of no significance.
Benin however was already an advanced society long before Ife Kingdom was established by Oduduwa.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:52am On Apr 10, 2020
In fact, if the dating of some of the older materials changed anything, Frank Willett himself would have ruled out the possibility of the site being a burial site, and he won't have named the pits burial pits.

We won't have to wait for this reinterpretation today.

Don't you think?



cc: SilverSniper

1 Like

Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:53am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:


[s]Do you know that it was shortly after oduduwa established Ife he is said to have sent his grandson Oranmiyan to rule in Edo? So we can assume it was around 30yrs after he conquered and established Ife Kingdom that he went to Benin which already had an organized society and a monarchy system in place hundreds of years before Oduduwa established kingship in Ife. Ife before Oduduwa was an unknown settlement of no significance.
Benin however was already an advanced society long before Ife Kingdom was established by Oduduwa.[/s]

Shut up! Odudwa did not establish any Ife.


You know nothing. Let your parents talk to me.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:53am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Ife subjugated Edo.

Ogiso is still fighting in court till tomorrow.

That’s not what history tells us. History tells us Benin Kingdom of the Edo people conquered and ruled over most of Yorubaland for hundreds of years.
That’s what your famous historians all agree on.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:54am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


You are missing my point. And nobody dated the "pits". Only some charcoal samples, etc. found at the site below surface level.

And my question is that: Could the same plot of a site be put to different use over the course of time?

Charcoal samples from the pits were dated though.

Yes, a site could be put to a different use over the course of time, but of course those burial pits aren't evidence of that, given the discrepancy in date for them.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by davidnazee: 3:55am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:


Shut up! Odudwa did not establish any Ife.


You know nothing. Let your parents talk to me.

If oduduwa did not establish Ife then why is he regarded as the father of Yoruba race? Why would someone be regarded as father of a race that was already established and great??

Even if you say Oduduwa did not establish Ife, he was the one that brought Ife to prominence. Before Oduduwa Ife was nothing but Edo was already an advanced society.

You won’t stop looking stupid abi.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 3:55am On Apr 10, 2020
davidnazee:


[s]That’s not what history tells us. History tells us Benin Kingdom of the Edo people conquered and ruled over most of Yorubaland for hundreds of years. That’s what your famous historians all agree on.[/s]

It's the history of Edo-Italian Connection that you that one.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by SilverSniper: 3:58am On Apr 10, 2020
TAO11:
In fact, if the dating of some of the older materials changed anything, Frank Willett himself would have ruled out the possibility of the site being a burial site, and he won't have named the pits burial pits.

We won't have to wait for this reinterpretation today.

Don't you think?



cc: SilverSniper

I think I wasn't as clear as I should have been about what I was really saying. I wasn't saying that they weren't necessarily burial pits, but instead saying they were probably for (burying) someone or something else, before they were reinterpreted as having to do with burying Benin kings, since their dates don't fit at all.
Re: Benin Kingdom In Edo State Remained Part Of The Expansive Yoruba - Ooni Of Ife by TAO11(f): 4:00am On Apr 10, 2020
SilverSniper:


Charcoal samples from the pits were dated though.

Yes, a site could be put to a different use over the course of time, but of course those burial pits aren't evidence of that, given the discrepancy in date for them.

That's precisely what it is!

Otherwise what exactly does it mean to date a "pit"? Soil? Obvious not. Lol.

It's clearly the materials found in the soil.

Answer this:
Why will the archaeologist, Frank Willett continue to uphold the idea that the site was used for burial in relation to Benin kingdom; if truly the dating was such an issue that you want to make it today??

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