Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,742,255 members, 6,504,672 topics. Date: Friday, 24 September 2021 at 01:31 AM

Is There Free Will In Heaven? - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is There Free Will In Heaven? (592 Views)

How God's Decision To Elevate Man Above Angels Caused The War In Heaven / God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. / Free Will Is An Illusion (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (Reply) (Go Down)

Is There Free Will In Heaven? by xcabczyxabczzzz: 2:55pm On Apr 16, 2020
Thought?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by WaffenSS(m): 7:13pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:
Thought?

Is there heaven?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 7:14pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:
Thought?
What is free will? What in man embodies this "free will"?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by xcabczyxabczzzz: 7:17pm On May 15, 2020
WaffenSS:


Is there heaven?
Assuming there is.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by xcabczyxabczzzz: 7:19pm On May 15, 2020
Kobojunkie:

What is free will? What in man embodies this "free will"?
Having total control of what you want to do?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 7:21pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:

Having total control of what you want to do?
OK. So whose heaven are you referring to here? Jesus' heaven? or that of another religion or belief?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by xcabczyxabczzzz: 7:26pm On May 15, 2020
Kobojunkie:

OK. So whose heaven are you referring to here? Jesus' heaven? or that of another religion or belief?
Christian
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by WaffenSS(m): 7:29pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:

Assuming there is.

If freewill ever existed, it means heaven won't. Man's life on earth and the concept of heaven are mutually exclusive.

Ps:

There's a catch in the statement above. Let's see if you can get it
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 7:30pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:

Christian
Um... OK, according to Jesus, one of the requirements to becoming his disciple is you need to die to self(ego)... that part of self that seeks control. The understanding is that as a follow of Christ, one is REQUIRED to abandon control of one's life in totality -- DIE TO IT. Bye bye free will!

And since that is a prerequisite for entering Jesus' heaven, it is not far reaching to assume then that free will does not exist in the Kingdom of God. undecided undecided
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 7:32pm On May 15, 2020
WaffenSS:

If freewill ever existed, it means heaven won't. Man's life on earth and the concept of heaven are mutually exclusive.
Ps:
There's a catch in the statement above. Let's see if you can get it
I disagree with the claim above. I see no catch only an error in logic.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by WaffenSS(m): 7:56pm On May 15, 2020
Kobojunkie:

I disagree with the claim above. I see no catch only an error in logic.

Precisely the catch

Predestination is the actual ideology that's inconsistent with a heaven.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 8:05pm On May 15, 2020
WaffenSS:

Precisely the catch
Predestination is the actual ideology that's inconsistent with a heaven.
While I do not subscribe to the many doctrines of men, I am of the mind that God did not lie when he said He indeed has a plan for all things from even before it was all made; His plan not being inconsistent with heaven. undecided
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by WaffenSS(m): 8:09pm On May 15, 2020
Kobojunkie:

While I do not subscribe to the many doctrines of men, I am of the mind that God did not lie when he said He indeed has a plan for all things from even before it was all made; His plan not being inconsistent with heaven. undecided

Depends on what his plans are.

if his plan means predestination of man then heaven is a contradiction.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by onlyinJESUS: 8:20pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:
Thought?
There's no free will here on Earth
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 8:21pm On May 15, 2020
WaffenSS:

Depends on what his plans are.
if his plan means predestination of man then heaven is a contradiction.
Our idea of predestination does not even encompass His supposed idea of "predestination", so I wouldn't be quite to conclude, if I were you.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by xcabczyxabczzzz: 8:22pm On May 15, 2020
onlyinJESUS:

There's no free will here on Earth
Then everything is justifiable.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by onlyinJESUS: 8:28pm On May 15, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:

Then everything is justifiable.
yes, including being punished for something you couldn't help.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by xcabczyxabczzzz: 8:35pm On May 15, 2020
onlyinJESUS:
yes, including being punished for something you couldn't help.
Why should I punish you for something I program you to do?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 8:39pm On May 15, 2020
onlyinJESUS:
yes, including being punished for something you couldn't help.
What the heck? angry angry angry What do you even understand free will to mean?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by WaffenSS(m): 12:04am On May 16, 2020
Kobojunkie:

Our idea of predestination does not even encompass His supposed idea of "predestination", so I wouldn't be quite to conclude, if I were you.

Predestination means the lack of freewill and where all paths that man follows are predetermined.

Therefore if the paths and actions of man were already laid out for him even before he was created, then his choices are a mere illusion, and the idea that man will be rewarded with heaven or punished with hell based on false choices is a contradiction.

In predestination man's fate is sealed, and his choices are mere pebbles in the stream of time.
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 6:01am On May 16, 2020
WaffenSS:

Predestination means the lack of freewill and where all paths that man follows are predetermined.Therefore if the paths and actions of man were already laid out for him even before he was created, then his choices are a mere illusion, and the idea that man will be rewarded with heaven or punished with hell based on false choices is a contradiction.
In predestination man's fate is sealed, and his choices are mere pebbles in the stream of time.
As I attempted earlier, it likely that man's understanding of each falls shorts of the true meaning that God has for each. After all God's thoughts are higher then out thoughts and His ways higher than our ways that there is no way for us to completely and utterly claim full understanding of the things of God.
My exposure to God has lead me to believe that it is in fact possible to have predestination and free will coexist. The way I came to God leaves me with no doubt of this -- but that is another story for another thread.
Surely free will does exists in this world of ours... however the excerpts below, from the book of Jeremiah, about Jeremiahs own call does confirm predestination, not according to man's doctrine ofcourse


Taken from Jeremiah 1 vs 4 -10
-----------------------------------------------
4 The Lord’s message came to me:

5 “Before I made you in your mother’s womb,
I knew you.
Before you were born,
I chose you for a special work.
I chose you to be a prophet to the nations.”


6 Then I said, “But, Lord God, I don’t know how to speak. I am only a boy.”

7 But the Lord said to me,

“Don’t say, ‘I am only a boy.’
You must go everywhere I send you
and say everything I tell you to say.
8 Don’t be afraid of anyone.
I am with you, and I will protect you.”
This message is from the Lord.

9 Then the Lord reached out with his hand and touched my mouth. He said to me,

“Jeremiah, I am putting my words in your mouth.
10 Today I have put you in charge of nations and kingdoms.
You will pull up and tear down.
You will destroy and overthrow.
You will build up and plant.”
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 9:14am On May 16, 2020
WaffenSS:


Depends on what his plans are.

if his plan means predestination of man then heaven is a contradiction.
It's not everyone that is predestined by God
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 9:16am On May 16, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:
Thought?
I don't think so
But there will be freedom in God's will
So No, no man's will
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 9:18am On May 16, 2020
onlyinJESUS:
There's no free will here on Earth
there is free will on earth
The Lord's prayer: let God's will be done on earth
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 9:19am On May 16, 2020
xcabczyxabczzzz:

Then everything is justifiable.
only the things predestined by God are justifiable
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 9:22am On May 16, 2020
WaffenSS:


Predestination means the lack of freewill and where all paths that man follows are predetermined.

Therefore if the paths and actions of man were already laid out for him even before he was created, then his choices are a mere illusion, and the idea that man will be rewarded with heaven or punished with hell based on false choices is a contradiction.

In predestination man's fate is sealed, and his choices are mere pebbles in the stream of time.
Then you see the lie of the devil prompting men to believe in their free will, which is a lie and an illusion as you put it.

Hell is created as a result of those who propagate such lies. A will that goes against God's will
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by WaffenSS(m): 11:05am On May 16, 2020
Mdmelijah:
It's not everyone that is predestined by God

How do you men?

As far as i know it is said that the actions of man were predetermined before man was created. That's fate.

Now my point is, if a man's path was predetermined to be a sinner's path, why should that man go to hell?

Heaven and hell work in a world where man is free from the bounds of fate, where man has the freewill to choose his path in the (rather simplistic) binary system of right and wrong. Only then would a heaven and hell make sense.

1 Like

Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by onlyinJESUS: 4:42pm On May 16, 2020
Mdmelijah:
there is free will on earth
The Lord's prayer: let God's will be done on earth
now the question is, isn't God's will done here on Earth?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by sonmvayina(m): 5:15pm On May 16, 2020
Mdmelijah:
It's not everyone that is predestined by God

What do you mean?.. Are you in anyway suggesting that some people are created to be destroyed?
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by sonmvayina(m): 5:16pm On May 16, 2020
onlyinJESUS:

now the question is, isn't God's will done here on Earth?

Yes it is...
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 8:50pm On May 16, 2020
onlyinJESUS:
now the question is, isn't God's will done here on Earth?
Yes it is...
Re: Is There Free Will In Heaven? by Mdmelijah: 8:55pm On May 16, 2020
WaffenSS:


How do you men?

As far as i know it is said that the actions of man were predetermined before man was created. That's fate.

Now my point is, if a man's path was predetermined to be a sinner's path, why should that man go to hell?

Heaven and hell work in a world where man is free from the bounds of fate, where man has the freewill to choose his path in the (rather simplistic) binary system of right and wrong. Only then would a heaven and hell make sense.

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30


Those who God predestined, those ones He justified and he also glorified. #simple

(1) (2) (Reply)

Is Hellfire A Bible Teaching / Help! Movement Of Objects All Over My Body / A life as an atheist is purposeless

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2021 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 107
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.