N.B. Read this with a honest mind. If you won't, do not read. If you do and feel offended in the end, I owe no responsibility.

The world sets into torpor as SARS-CoV 2 waxes in strength. The novel virus has claimed over 150,000 lives globally and threatens to take more. Over 2,000,000 people around the world have been infected with less than 50% of them recovered. While many realisations have emerged through the pandemic period to open most eyes to realities passing by their face in different aspects of life (health care, politics, empathy) one this post aims to call to notice is the credibility of religion and assessing its claims.

First off, religion accounts for the beliefs in things or concepts that are higher in realm to the natural world which consciously interact or relate with the natural world and which require faith for acceptance or acknowledgment as direct or concrete evidence that affirm their reality do not exist or are difficult to attain. From this births the various religions in the world which may be monotheistic (one god) or polytheistic (more than one god) in theology - Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Paganism, etc.

These religions have in general the belief that believers can talk to these super powers (by prayers) to ask for wishes, even the ones impossible by natural efforts to achieve, that can be granted or made come to pass miraculously. More than half of the population of the world have one religion or the other (yes, there are some who do not give credence to religion) and most have declared prayers to their God or gods to cure the current pandemic sickening the world, even preventing them from going to their various places of worship. But as with past pandemics and epidemics, the Spanish Flu, the West African Ebola, the Asian Flu, The Zika Virus and others, religion has never been a way out even with the prayers which is supposed to be the panacea to all problems. Times like this, believers put all hopes on science, and their miraculous capabilities seem to be held hidden. Why?

As a normal rational human being who thinks right with a good functioning brain some reasonable deductions can be made from this. The obvious ones are highlighted first, then the seemingly subtle ones.

The Holy Books Lie
Holy books of various religions promise their believers miraculous cure to diseases. In the Bible for example it says the "signs of those that believe" are some super lists including "they shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover", Mk 16:17. In the Islamic book there is a chapter of al-Fatiha which is known for healing, "Al-Fatiha is cure for all diseases." (Darimi, Fadlul-Quran 12) So only two things are possible. It is either these books lie and are not sacred as the spiritual leaders have portrayed them or...

God does not approve the healing
If God is the ultimate mechanism that makes the healing actually works then he won't do what he doesn't want to do even if you asks for it. Then the question is why would God not approve the healing of a sickness, especially one that has affected the world economy, infected babies or turned them motherless, caused trauma in those whose loved ones have passed away with it...?

God is evil or not powerful
And here we will consider again what the holy books say. Some of the aforementioned deductions are based on 'if the holy book is true'. Coming to this point, the holy books and the believers all say God is good and all powerful so it is either this or the holy books lie and if the holy books lie nothing of them is true and no rational being should confide in them.

God is true but all believers are fake
What if God is real and the holy books are true but all believers are doing it wrongly? This would mean no one is right and the reverence you give your spiritual leaders is misplaced. But still, what father would see his child dying but refuses to help just because he is not asking for help the way he wants him to? Deductions so far has proved that God can't exist while the pandemic prevails. What would be the more rational deduction?

There is no God
If there has never been a pandemic cure through the religion way despite attempts/prayers from believers to have one isn't it more rational to conclude religion is false, or more politely, superstitious? And if the knowledge of God comes from religion does it not also imply that God does not exist and the world is what it is - surviving on its own?

If you disagree what would be your more rational deduction?

Coronavirus do affect the physical part of man as it's consider somewhat a natural attribute (diseases). Children or no children of God, there are other natural things that have been happening and can tamper with the physical e.g, flood, earthquake, volcanic eruption. You don't expect a man to throw a stick to a pride of lions and wave to them expecting the lions to applaud him. Faith without work is in vain. There are cases where Jesus nearly got attacked but, he left for safety. The physical nature of man needs to be taken care of, coronavirus can't affect you spiritually. Man is blessed with certain amount of wisdom and knowledge to work on his nature. In conclusion diseases can affect any mortal man where Christian, Muslim or others. Diseases of various kind existed long ago.

African Pastors That Can Raise The Dead - When Will They Start Using Their Powers on Corona Virus victims?
Everywhere you go across Africa, there always seem to be a messiah who is capable of performing some incredible miracles, from curing the blind, healing the sick to raising the dead.
When will these men start using their healing powers on Corona Virus victims?
Why is the lack of standard hospitals across Africa still a problem in the midst of these powerful men?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTFf6frgtBY

Why is Corona Virus Pandemic and The Global Lockdown Missing in Prophecies for 2020?
At the beginning of every year, So many self acclaimed men of God across Africa dish out prophecies.
How come a problem as big as this Corona Virus Pandemic and the global lockdown/shutdown was missing in their prophecies?

What went wrong?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArjAY2nLBZA

1. You will lay hand on the sick... Didn't you read that faith without work is in vain. Also with faith things can be done but, faith is not something that you can just say I have it or I am in possession of it or as long as you are a Christian you have faith. I have witnessed healness from laying hands (I was illed) so nobody can tell me nothing. The holy book didn't lied to me.
2. God had given us wisdom to solve many things however, if it's not possible a contrite heart, faith and with humility bring it to God. Had worked for me, God made nature and the attribute of nature to his work, so nature can also take place too.
3. I don't get the line here
4. There is difference between believer and a fallen brethen. All believers are not fake. Like I mentioned, nature must take place it; had been made. Under normal circumstances man should grow, water should flow, storm and earthquake should occur etc
5. If there is no God there can't be existence, only existence bring existence.

Stephenmoka4:
Coronavirus do affect the physical part of man as it's
consider somewhat a natural attribute (diseases). Children
or no children of God, there are other natural things that
have been happening and can tamper with the physical e.g,
flood, earthquake, volcanic eruption. You don't expect a man
to throw a stick to a pride of lions and wave to them
expecting the lions to applaud him. Faith without work is in
vain. There are cases where Jesus nearly got attacked but,
he left for safety. The physical nature of man needs to be
taken care of, coronavirus can't affect you spiritually. Man is
blessed with certain amount of wisdom and knowledge to
work on his nature. In conclusion diseases can affect any
mortal man where Christian, Muslim or others. Diseases of
various kind existed long ago.

The original post takes a jump over everything associated with the cause of coronavirus. The original post focuses on the cure after the infection has occurred which your reply here does not address.

Stephenmoka4:
1. You will lay hand on the sick... Didn't you read that faith without work is in vain. Also with faith things can be done but, faith is not something that you can just say I have it or I am in possession of it or as long as you are a Christian you have faith.

You imply that the reason there has not been a cure from prayer is because no one has applied faith and works together to ensure a cure as the holy books say. This would mean the same things I have stated - either there is no true believer or the holy books lie.

I have witnessed healness from laying hands (I was illed) so nobody can tell me nothing. The holy book didn't lied to me.

You can't use personal feelings for general standard sir.

2. God had given us wisdom to solve many things however, if it's not possible a contrite heart, faith and with humility bring it to God. Had worked for me, God made nature and the attribute of nature to his work, so nature can also take place too.

If this reply is to "God does not approve the healing", I do not see the correlation. And the reply on its own is vague.

3. I don't get the line here

It follows from #2. Simply put, if the holy books say we can pray to God to cure illnesses and the holy books do not lie, then when we pray to God for a cure and nothing happens we can say that either the holy books lie or God has a personal issue with our request and does not approve the healing.

4. There is difference between believer and a fallen brethen. All believers are not fake. Like I mentioned, nature must take place it; had been made. Under normal circumstances man should grow, water should flow, storm and earthquake should occur etc

You imply that this must happen because it is what it is. Why do believers still pray for a cure then?

5. If there is no God there can't be existence, only existence bring existence.

Leaving other flaws this statement poses aside, the implication follows that everything in existence comes because of God. This includes sin, death, temptations, evil, destiny, poverty, disasters, pandemics and every bad thing. How can you explain that God is justifiable for being the cause of every evil thing happening in the world? Please don't forget you said, "if there is no God, there can't be existence".

All religious books lie. No gods can cure human sicknesses and diseases.
Secondly God Almighty is the TOTALITY OF EXISTENCE and there is no promises by the TOTALITY OF EXISTENCE to cure human sicknesses and diseases.
Jehovah, Allah, Moloch, Mazda etc are gods and not God Almighty and they cannot cure anything.

Pr0ton:


The original post takes a jump over everything associated with the cause of coronavirus. The original post focuses on the cure after the infection has occurred which your reply here does not address.

You can pick out something from there if you get, currently there is no definite physical cure for it as man's body will have to also fight against it with the assistance of drugs/injections or whatsoever. Coronavirus is a disease and like the woman with the issue of blood, she might have given up on specialist then and with faith she was heal, even the man with dread skin disease. Even after coronavirus there are still more diseases to come that's a concept of nature (negative to man), why didn't God stop eruptions, storms, blizzard etc they are meant to happened even Jesus witnessed some of them.

1. The earth has been given to man. Man is the all powerful on earth not God. If man can successfully pray the will of God be done on earth, it will be.... if not then the natural events will run their usual course.

2. The bible continually shows us that God needs men to properly channel his power to earth....if they cant channel it then nothing changes.

Gehazi once tried to raise a dead child on orders and instructions from Elisha and he failed. But Elisha raised the boy. God's power is constant but if you cant bring it down then natural events will continue unabated.

3. God has 2 modes of intervention on the earth
A. Total intervention such as when Hezekiah put musicians in from of the army and angels came to kill the enemy
B. Partial intervention which describes a super majority of all the wars israel fought.

Yeah the bible says God gave them victory against mightier foes but it doesn't change the fact that it was them physically doing the fighting.

How God intervenes is dependent on him so where exactly do we even draw the line?

The life of the israelites show that most times God prefers to allow natural events to run their course with only partial intervention.

But ofcourse that is not what has been taught in the church over the years but i think corona is making certain things obvious

Pr0ton:


You imply that the reason there has not been a cure from prayer is because no one has applied faith and works together to ensure a cure as the holy books say. This would mean the same things I have stated - either there is no true believer or the holy books lie.



You can't use personal feelings for general standard sir.



If this reply is to "God does not approve the healing", I do not see the correlation. And the reply on its own is vague.



It follows from #2. Simply put, if the holy books say we can pray to God to cure illnesses and the holy books do not lie, then when we pray to God for a cure and nothing happens we can say that either the holy books lie or God has a personal issue with our request and does not approve the healing.




You imply that this must happen because it is what it is. Why do believers still pray for a cure then?



Leaving other flaws this statement poses aside, the implication follows that everything in existence comes because of God. This includes sin, death, temptations, evil, destiny, poverty, disasters, pandemics and every bad thing. How can you explain that God is justifiable for being the cause of every evil thing happening in the world? Please don't forget you said, "if there is no God, there can't be existence".

1. I mentioned nature had to take it's way, God made nature. Like I said I have been healed before from Faith/prayers and many others, I've heard and also seen, so do others. I don't want to start sharing contact of different people who are witnessed to this kind of thing in their own place... so it's not a personal something
2. Simply some things are meant to be, God approved mine (according to the way you termed it).
3. See (2)
4. So themselves and usually other people won't be affected too, we should all know that diseases and illness are real and should be avoided/prevented. Not just prayers but, physical attribute to it too.
5. We don't always have to blame the car company for road accident, there is manual, there is driving school and instructions. Should I explain this one too...

karo93:
1. The earth has been given to man. Man is the all powerful on earth not God. If man can successfully pray the will of God be done on earth, it will be.... if not then the natural events will run their usual course.

2. The bible continually shows us that God needs men to properly channel his power to earth....if they cant channel it then nothing changes.

Gehazi once tried to raise a dead child on orders and instructions from Elisha and he failed. But Elisha raised the boy. God's power is constant but if you cant bring it down then natural events will continue unabated.

3. God has 2 modes of intervention on the earth
A. Total intervention such as when Hezekiah put musicians in from of the army and angels came to kill the enemy
B. Partial intervention which describes a super majority of all the wars israel fought.

Yeah the bible says God gave them victory against mightier foes but it doesn't change the fact that it was them physically doing the fighting.

How God intervenes is dependent on him so where exactly do we even draw the line?

The life of the israelites show that most times God prefers to allow natural events to run their course with only partial intervention.

But ofcourse that is not what has been taught in the church over the years but i think corona is making certain things obvious

In addition, God approves healing but it is obviously not as straightforward as the church as made it seem over the years. If it was that straightforward then the church will have been carrying out mass healings and finally bringing real life proof to the age long message.

Why do you think Christian leaders who claim to be miracle channels avoid visiting people in critical situations out side the church?



How many times have you heard that oyedepo or tb joshua or adeboye visited an hospital and people got healed and the hospital emptied?



Real life is different from a crusade where everything is conditioned and controlled to fool people and even people are willing to voluntarily claim to be healed just to please the pastor or in hope that they would later get the real healing be claiming it by faith and testifying even though they know they are not healed

Stephenmoka4:

1. I mentioned nature had to take it's way, God made nature. Like I said I have been healed before from Faith/prayers and many others, I've heard and also seen, so do others. I don't want to start sharing contact of different people who are witnessed to this kind of thing in their own place... so it's not a personal something
2. Simply some things are meant to be, God approved mine (according to the way you termed it).
3. See (2)
4. So themselves and usually other people won't be affected too, we should all know that diseases and illness are real and should be avoided/prevented. Not just prayers but, physical attribute to it too.
5. We don't always have to blame the car company for road accident, there is manual, there is driving school and instructions. Should I explain this one too...

If God was real, could answer prayers and cared about human well-being, nothing would be impossible.
There would be no incurable illnesses and congenital defects would be reversible. Amputees could be restored.
Droughts and famines, earthquake, tornadoes, tsunamis and volcanoes could be stopped before anyone died. Locust swarms could be diverted from vital crops.
Defective airplanes could crash-land without harming people and African football teams would win every world cup.
If God answered prayers, even death itself would be reversible.
In fact, none of these things happen. So God is not real, or can't answer prayers or doesn't wish to. But the Bible promises he WILL answer prayers and assures us that he has incalculable LOVE for us.
So that only leaves one option, God is not real--he's just a character in a story.

Stephenmoka4:
You can pick out something from there if you get, currently there is no definite physical cure for it as man's body will have to also fight against it with the assistance of drugs/injections or whatsoever. Coronavirus is a disease and like the woman with the issue of blood, she might have given up on specialist then and with faith she was heal, even the man with dread skin disease. Even after coronavirus there are still more diseases to come that's a concept of nature (negative to man), why didn't God stop eruptions, storms, blizzard etc they are meant to happened even Jesus witnessed some of them.

Does your failure to address the cure and not the cause, again, conclude that God can't always help his believers in times of distress and trouble?

Stephenmoka4:

1. I mentioned nature had to take it's way, God made nature.

So God can't always be of help as clearly he does not have power over nature.

Like I said I have been healed before from Faith/prayers and many others, I've heard and also seen, so do others. I don't want to start sharing contact of different people who are witnessed to this kind of thing in their own place... so it's not a personal something

If the same prayer you claim healed you but could not heal other people, who are now dead, then it wasn't prayer that healed you but medical intervention or your body immunity in cases where there was no medical intervention.

2. Simply some things are meant to be, God approved mine (according to the way you termed it).

Good. We finally agree on this. God does not always approve healing. Now the implication is #3 which would be why. And according to you, you say some things are meant to be which implies that God approves the current pandemic because clearly he will not do anything to stop it. Just as someone who can save another person from drowning simply watch the person struggle and die can be considered evil, how do you justify that God is not evil in this case?

4. So themselves and usually other people won't be affected too, we should all know that diseases and illness are real and should be avoided/prevented. Not just prayers but, physical attribute to it too.

I don't see the sense. If something is meant to be why pray against it?

5. We don't always have to blame the car company for road accident, there is manual, there is driving school and instructions. Should I explain this one too...

No, if the car company is also responsible for the cause of the accident we can blame the car company. According to you, nothing ever exists, including accidents, that is not caused by God. If I have such super powers I can create a perfect world where no accident exists. For accidents to exist implies an imperfect world, one that can not come to being if God didn't create it.

karo93:
1. The earth has been given to man. Man is the all powerful on earth not God. If man can successfully pray the will of God be done on earth, it will be.... if not then the natural events will run their usual course.

2. The bible continually shows us that God needs men to properly channel his power to earth....if they cant channel it then nothing changes.

Gehazi once tried to raise a dead child on orders and instructions from Elisha and he failed. But Elisha raised the boy. God's power is constant but if you cant bring it down then natural events will continue unabated.

Consequently, since no believer can successfully cure a pandemic through prayer all who claim to be believers are fake. No one knows how to do it right including your spiritual leaders. I wonder what thought that leaves you.

3. God has 2 modes of intervention on the earth
A. Total intervention such as when Hezekiah put musicians in from of the army and angels came to kill the enemy
B. Partial intervention which describes a super majority of all the wars israel fought.

Yeah the bible says God gave them victory against mightier foes but it doesn't change the fact that it was them physically doing the fighting.

How God intervenes is dependent on him so where exactly do we even draw the line?

The life of the israelites show that most times God prefers to allow natural events to run their course with only partial intervention.

But ofcourse that is not what has been taught in the church over the years but i think corona is making certain things obvious

If the proper way the Bible puts it as laying hands on the sick and them recovering or recovery through prayer is not implemented in stopping a pandemic, you can't give God the credit. There is a difference between going through intense research for a long period of time in the scientific way to find a vaccine or a cure and simply asking God for what chemistry to perform to get a cure. The former has no intervention from God in any way. It is purely science.

karo93:


In addition, God approves healing but it is obviously not as straightforward as the church as made it seem over the years. If it was that straightforward then the church will have been carrying out mass healings and finally bringing real life proof to the age long message.

The church, or at least the original post, draws the method of religious healing from the holy book. If anything is wrong you are saying the holy book is wrong.

odinson1:



If God was real, could answer prayers and cared about human well-being, nothing would be impossible.
There would be no incurable illnesses and congenital defects would be reversible. Amputees could be restored.
Droughts and famines, earthquake, tornadoes, tsunamis and volcanoes could be stopped before anyone died. Locust swarms could be diverted from vital crops.
Defective airplanes could crash-land without harming people and African football teams would win every world cup.
If God answered prayers, even death itself would be reversible.
In fact, none of these things happen. So God is not real, or can't answer prayers or doesn't wish to. But the Bible promises he WILL answer prayers and assures us that he has incalculable LOVE for us.
So that only leaves one option, God is not real--he's just a character in a story.

After the first sin, the world had never been the same. God answers prayers and I had witnessed it, anyways earthquake, tornado, thunderstorm, blizzard etc are all part of nature and nature must act on most things that can be altered by it, rain will fall, sun will shine etc they are part of nature even Jesus witnessed storms, rain, sunshine etc. Airplane when crashed under normal circumstances whatever is in it is ought to be altered by the damage, falling from a great height is not a good thing to the human body, we are not birds that can maneuver and do air tricks w/ our bodies but, we can do others ones bird can't. African football teams would win if they win all their games by playing well, Africans had done well in other activities outside of football. Death is parts of man's nature and are meant to occur, if you like love or hate God; human death is certain. He will answer prayers but, some things are meant to be, even Jesus know that; he prayed concerning the death that comes his way but, what would be should be.

Pr0ton:


Does your failure to address the cure and not the cause, again, conclude that God can't always help his believers in times of distress and trouble?

Simple there is no known physical cure, oh John you have the virus take this, you too Jaimy take this.

Pr0ton:


So God can't always be of help as clearly he does not have power over nature.



If the same prayer you claim healed you but could not heal other people, who are now dead, then it wasn't prayer that healed you but medical intervention or your body immunity in cases where there was no medical intervention.



Good. We finally agree on this. God does not always approve healing. Now the implication is #3 which would be why. And according to you, you say some things are meant to be which implies that God approves the current pandemic because clearly he will not do anything to stop it. Just as someone who can save another person from drowning simply watch the person struggle and die can be considered evil, how do you justify that God is not evil in this case?



I don't see the sense. If something is meant to be why pray against it?



No, if the car company is also responsible for the cause of the accident we can blame the car company. According to you, nothing ever exists, including accidents, that is not caused by God. If I have such super powers I can create a perfect world where no accident exists. For accidents to exist implies an imperfect world, one that can not come to being if God didn't create it.

God made nature and let nature be, positive, negative or plausible to anything it could take effect on. Sunshine, snow, storm, gravity, friction, humidity, flow of water, two oceans seams separately.

2. I am the one that got healed not you, and it's prayer. Take or leave, this is not the first time a disease had happened so, there had been other things that had occurred. What will be will be unless altered.

3. You agreed on that one, not we. You think God approved the current pandemic, somethings were caused by ourselves. When you see someone throw stones at lions, the person shouldn't wait for God's approval for the lions to strike back.

4. David prayed for his child he got outta adultery but, what will stand will stand. Jesus payed concerning his cup of suffering too

5. If you don't crash a car, I don't think it will crash itself.

Stephenmoka4:
Simple there is no known physical cure, oh John you have the virus take this, you too Jaimy take this.

I don't know about you, but I see that scientists are smarter than God as they can provide cure to some illnesses when God can't.

Stephenmoka4:
God made nature and let nature be, positive, negative or plausible to anything it could take effect on. Sunshine, snow, storm, gravity, friction, humidity, flow of water, two oceans seams separately.

When you start replying with craps I end a particular debate with you, as with this one.

2. I am the one that got healed not you, and it's prayer. Take or leave, this is not the first time a disease had happened so, there had been other things that had occurred. What will be will be unless altered.

That is the problem you get when you try to make personal feelings standard measures of facts. Let's say your point here can be tested (like curing a covid-19 patient with prayer) no one would argue with you.

3. You agreed on that one, not we. You think God approved the current pandemic, somethings were caused by ourselves. When you see someone throw stones at lions, the person shouldn't wait for God's approval for the lions to strike back.

If you also go in circles I will end a debate with you. Now you are back to causes. I have told you to leave causes aside and focus on the ability of God to cure the illness. Again, if God can cure an illness but chooses not to then he approves of the illness.

4. David prayed for his child he got outta adultery but, what will stand will stand. Jesus payed concerning his cup of suffering too

You still haven't made the sense out of praying against something that can not be changed. I will also end an argument with you if you clearly do not apply simple logic in your replies.

5. If you don't crash a car, I don't think it will crash itself.

Some things are responsible for the crashing of the car, mistakes principally. Or say imperfection. In a world where imperfection does not exist a car can never crash. For imperfection to exist with the world God must have created it because nothing that is in existence will not be existing if God doesn't cause it to exist, according to you.

Pr0ton:


I don't know about you, but I see that scientists are smarter than God as they can provide cure to some illnesses when God can't.

God gave man brain to cater for himself too, accept or reject; your choice on that one.

Pr0ton:


When you start replying with craps I end a particular debate with you, as with this one.



That is the problem you get when you try to make personal feelings standard measures of facts. Let's say your point here can be tested (like curing a covid-19 patient with prayer) no one would argue with you.



If you also go in circles I will end a debate with you. Now you are back to causes. I have told you to leave causes aside and focus on the ability of God to cure the illness. Again, if God can cure an illness but chooses not to then he approves of the illness.



You still haven't made the sense out of praying against something that can not be changed. I will also end an argument with you if you clearly do not apply simple logic in your replies.



Some things are responsible for the crashing of the car, mistakes principally. Or say imperfection. In a world where imperfection does not exist a car can never crash. For imperfection to exist with the world God must have created it because nothing that is in existence will not be existing if God doesn't cause it to exist, according to you.

1. You can end on that one, probably you didn't get the line.
2. If different people start sharing their own way of getting healed beyond the physical, you won't still believe so that's that.
3. God can cure it if he wants to for now nature is very busy, take or leave; what will happen will happen, that's beyond man's power.
4. You pray even if it's going to happen or seems impossible, it could change a thing and also could not. Jesus prayed several times at the garden but, he was still handed over. When King Nebuchadnezzar throw those three into the flames, they knew it's impossible (checkout their prayers) but, were saved.
5. What mistakes, he didn't make accident anywhere. When Adam was made he didn't had accident or anything but, after the sin everything turned around.