PAPA AFRICA: it would have been nice if the british took pictures of the kings palace before they stripped the art.

taharqa: I think d bigger question shld be why we have not been able to Recreate d Palace with all d info we have of what/how it looked like presently?? Why haven't we built Models of d Palace- either Physically Or just ComputerGenerated ones- which wud have come in very handy Films/Cartoons/Documentaries Production about d civilization

PhysicsQED: I might as well re-post this quote:

"Legroing tells us : " The city of Benin is situated in a plain surrounded by deep
ditches. Vestiges of an old earthen wall are to be seen ; the wall could hardly have
been built of any other material as we did not see a single stone in the whole journey
up. The houses for the most part are covered with latanier leaves, and those of
the king with large shingles. In front of the king's houses there were two thick
clumps of high trees, and these appeared to us to be the only trees planted by the
hand of man (Labarthe, p. 175)." From Landolphe we learn that a " ditch more than
20 feet wide and as deep surrounds the town, and the soil taken out is made on the
city side into a talus, on which a thorny hedge has been planted so thick, that not
even an animal can get through. The height of this talus deprives one of a view of
the houses at a distance, and one does not see them until entering the town, the gates
of which are very far apart " (II., 48). " The streets are very broad ; in the middle
there is turf on which the kids and sheep feed ; about thirty feet from the houses
there is a level road, covered with sand for the inhabitants to walk on " [ibid, II., 50).
He also mentions several spacious courts surrounded by earthen walls about sixteen
feet high. Along the inside of the walls there ran a gallery fifteen feet wide, thatched
with natanier. The thatching is done by overlapping the leaves which not
being pulled apart, fall one on top of another to a thickness of eighteen inches.
This roof is supported by large pieces of timber cut into the shape of pillars. They
are set up about eighteen feet apart, and carry stout horizontal planks on which
abut the sloping joists which carry the roof, which was an ingenious piece of work "
(ibid, I., 111-112). Of the apartments of the king's wives he says the walls are twenty
feet high and five feet thick, solidly built of earth [ibid, I., 335)." - H. Ling Roth, Great Benin


(kids = goats, just in case anyone is confused by that part)

PAPA AFRICA: I always find my self looking through this thread and I can never understand everything he's describing here. Can anyone clarify?

Nyumba:
Great walls 4m high, wide roads with inthe middle grass for the herds and sand for the people as sidewalk. Inside the walls there is a gallery. The walls surrounding the apartments of the king's wives are 6m high.

PAPA AFRICA: thanks, so I'm guessing the art was displayed on this gallery and it was along one of the defensive walls and not the houses?

PAPA AFRICA: in reference to the shining earthern walls mentioned by Europeans i have a better understanding of how it looked now. like this:

this is a ball of mud polished to a high glaze using sand and water, like marble like the Europeans mentioned.

rabzy: Hi Booshman,
Good to hear fom you too. How is your project going.

rabzy: That's beautiful, I hope u cud include joromi, d wrestler champion of both d human and spirit world.

Booshman:

Joromi? I've never heard of him, before. Could you give me some information about him? Is he an Edo folk hero, like Evian?

rabzy:

Wow, there is a popular song about him by the Edo high-life musician Victor Uwaifo. You should check out the song and listen to it. One of the most popular high-life tracks in Nigeria.

The legend states that as far as Joromi could remember, he had been warned never to climb a particular palm tree at the back of their house. Joromi was a strong and very stubborn boy. He became a wrestler and defeated all opponents that he met. One day he decided to conquer the palm tree he was warned about and climb it. His younger sister on seeing him climbing the tree turned into a fly and followed him.

When Joromi got to the top of the tree he suddenly found himself in the spirit world with multi-headed demons around him. As an intruder he was challenged and he got into a wrestling match with them. he first fought with a tw0-headed monster and he immediately defeated him and cut off one of the heads telling the demon no one goes around with two heads. Then a three-headed demon took over and the battle continued and became more difficult. Each time a new demon appears to fight, Joromi's sister who turned into a fly will keep singing and warning Joromi not to the demon, that he has conquered all human opponents and these are spirits and this is where death resides.

Joromi instead is spurred on and encouraged by the song and with each 'kese' kese' chorus in the song he cuts off demon heads. Eventually a seven-headed demon came and the Joromi fought bravely and became very tired, he slipped and fell and the demon with only one head remaining came closer to cut off his devastating arms but Joromi kept his arms behind his back and the demon could not pry it off, suddenly he sprang up with another 'kese' kese' and tore the demon's stomach with a blow.

While the demon was writhing in pains, he took the opportunity to try and scramble down the palm tree and get back to the earth, as he was about to escape the spirit realm, the demon lunged after him with giant strides and grabbed him, but he could not get a firm grasp but could only scratch his Joromi's back with his claws.

That is why all humans till today have a groove (i.e the spinal cord groove) in their backs.

rabzy: Thanks Booshman, you are far too kind.
The 'kese kese' is an imitation of the sound his sword makes when he slashes the demons. its a reminder of his unwavering and unrelenting blows. While the song was supposed to warn him to desist in his mission to death, it rather was spurring him on.

rabzy: The Sister was not telling him not to tell the new demons about his exploits. The Sister was just acknowledging his prowess in the song but then warning him that these are not like his human opponents but this is the spirit world and that he cant hope to succeed like he did on earth. But of course you can embellish the story to suit your purpose, its a legend and am sure it has been re-told in a number of ways to kids.

Joromi's sisters name is lost to antiquity

He uses a Sword, but of course the sword is magical to achieve all it did. then Joromi himself would have been 'cooked'.

The name of the spirit world is 'Agbon Elinmi'. Agbon is world, while Elinmi is spirit. so that makes it spirit world. My dad use to scold my sister when we were little calling her Ekhun Agbon Ekhun Elinmi... Which means the laziest of the world and the laziest of the spirits. We laugh over it now a lot.

Booshman:

- Oooooh, I see. His sister was just warning not to lower his guard, simply because he defeated all those humans. And I can just give Joromi's sister an appropriate an Edo name. One that fits her role and personality. Thankfully I have a huge list of Edo names at my disposal.

- The fact that his sword was magical just makes the legend even more impressive. Because Joromi is a normal person, so it's easier for people to put themselves in his shoes. Like a "David and Goliath" type of story. Only African, so it's even more incredible. My only question about the sword is was there any mention of how he came across the it? For example, did he find it in Agbon Elinmi? Or did he carry it with him from home? If it's the 2nd option was it always magical or did it become magical once inside? Or am I totally wrong and he acquired it another way?

- Also, how do you pronounce "Agbon Elinmi"? Is it "Ag-bun El-een-me"? I haven't even tried the Edo dialect yet, because I'm still trying to get the Yoruba dialect and tones down first. Don't want to confuse myself by trying to learn two languages at once.

- Oh! What happened to Joromi's sister? She wasn't left in the Spirit Realm was she? And is her fly transformation one that she can reverse? Because to be quite honest, living as a fly would be horrible!

Sorry for asking a million questions, but I'm VERY detail oriented. I have to be! Because that is what makes for the best stories. Including major details and minor ones.


This is frustrating but also absolutely illuminating, because these are the type of stories should be known the world over! Every African legend that I've heard has been nothing short of "simply fantastic!"

rabzy:

Now your questions are asking for answers legends and myths don't care to answer.... .. we would have to embellish the story and agree on plausibles.... but like i said it is your story...you are kind write it as it fits your purpose...if it was history then we would need to be more careful.

Now to the myriads of questions:

I ma not aware of how he got the sword, but we could say he won it from one of his most difficult opponent on earth or maybe we say the guy bequeath it to him as he was about to die believing he would be the most worthy to wield it.... or we could say one powerful medicine man made it for him....warriors and wrestlers dont go for battles without fortification from medicine-men we call the obo pronounced or-bow.

Agbon Elinmi...this one is tough...it would be A as in Apple, english has no equivalent for GBON... but your suggestion should suffice just make the 'g' very soft and almost silent....

Elinmi...E as in egg then 'lean' and then 'me'

Of course she came back and could transform back.

Booshman:

Sorry, I had a feeling I was getting into "the realm of the unanswerable" with my questions. Didn't mean to pry. Just wanted to get as many details as I could, before I needed to fill in the holes with my own stuff.

Also, thanks for the pronunciations. I was more on the right track than I thought.

And surprisingly, I've heard of Obos before; from a fascinating book I read entitled "Kings, Magic, and Medicine" by Chief Dr. Daryl M. Peavy. Who was an American that studied Edo Medicine under an Esan native doctor for years. Where he was awarded the title of Okhaemwen and still continues his research on the Iha Ominigbon/Oguega divination system in Edo State. The book talks a lot about Edo spirituality and mentions some of the various non-Yoruba related gods. As well as some folklore related to them. It was an invaluable resource, for someone like me, who's not a Nigerian native.

rabzy:

How ya doing...the best way for me to help you with the pronunciation would have been to send you voice notes, or if you are have an Bini/Esan native that speaks around you there...
I had an uncle from my mom's side who was a famous obo, and we used to go to the village when i was small, some other Obos come around for some festivals and they sing songs and do some displays of power and stuffs like that. i would love to read the book you mentioned....should throw some lights on some things.

rabzy: Hi Booshman,

I think this is someone you should be interested in. He is a very historical person and his family members are still alive. His name is Asoro and he was the chief sword-bearer for Ovoranwen Nogbaisi, the Oba of Benin that ruled when Benin kingdom was attacked by the British. After the City was defeated and burnt, Asoro and his band of soldiers continued a guerilla war with the British and he was said to be immortal.

He defended a road junction in Benin and declared that nobody would pass through except the King and he died defending that spot, that spot is still known as Sokponba 'except the king'.

I have heard two versions of the legend, the first one i heard when i was little is that, when he is killed and touched by the enemy he wakes up again and keeps fighting, another legend says that you can only kill him by killing his shadow.

It was said that he killed so many British soldiers that they had to look for the source of his power, he was reportedly betrayed by his wife who told them they have to aim at his shadow to kill him.
This is someone that should fit into your story, a true and verifiable warrior and legend.

bokohalal:
Heard that 'shadow' thing when I was little and believed it. Know better now.

rabzy:

Yeah....but you know thats what makes childhood interesting, you can believe anything and get excited...thats why we try to be superman or spiderman flying all over the house.

So what exactly is the nature of Asoro's powers.

bokohalal:
My conclusion is that he eluded the British soldiers for some time (as the then Ologbosere also did ) and considering the crushing defeat and devastation that the British had just inflicted on the Benin Empire,to have escaped capture or death for sometime from the new masters,the cowed survivors attributed his daring as supernatural and wove incredible stories into it.
You do know that the British committed genocide in old Benin?

rabzy:

They destroyed Benin Kingdom, i have not heard anybody call it a genocide, nor do i think it can be called a genocide.