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|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by ekubear1: 9:39pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Economics is most of it though, I think. And the fact that many of those in Lagos are not indigenes makes it even more likely that they'll adopt Lagos Yoruba, imo.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 9:42pm On Jan 09, 2011|
The oral traditions does suggest that Oduduwa met some people at Ife but he united the kingdoms according to the same traditions. On the issue of Ekaladerhan, it's simply a question of who came first? The chicken or the egg?Still not sure what to believe as regards as this. I've never heard Orunmila being referred to as the progenitor of the Yorubas, source please would like to learn more about this.
Jason, you have Samuel Jason's history of the Yorubas to blame for the Lamurudu version that is taught in schools
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by fstranger1: 9:43pm On Jan 09, 2011|
I have read everything you ve written on it and I have compared it with what I learnt in school, heard first hand from the Ooni, and from other older people. I am sorry, it just doesnt add up.
I dont wanna argue about Yoruba history today because I am not in the mood. And, I have a feeling you are from Benin. If that is true, there is no point arguing because we will never agree.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by jason123: 9:44pm On Jan 09, 2011|
I was actually interested in what happened in Ilorin and afonja.
About the lamurudu version, how do we know that it is wrong and the other version is right
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by fstranger1: 9:47pm On Jan 09, 2011|
I really do not think you can convince Katsumoto
As you can tell, his version is the Edo version of Yoruba history. And, we will never agree on which version is right or wrong.
Look at his post history, you'd see what I am talking about. He has had the same argument about 2-3 years ago, and he completely distorted Yoruba history, parading it as fact to unsuspecting and gullible Nlers.
I am glad there are people like you who are a lil more careful. As you can yell, most people on this thread, other than may be Aigbofa, never took Yoruba history rigorously in school. Even those who claimed to have read Johnson's book do not seem to have understood what they read.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by isalegan2: 9:49pm On Jan 09, 2011|
New thread to continue discussion of Yoruba Origins
Fstranger, (PhD, Mensa): Harigato! Harigato!
Katsumoto: Ka'ale o! Se dada le'wa?
FStranger: What! You speak Yoruba! I'll be a monkey's uncle! How? When? What? But your name is Katsumoto! I am totally gobsmacked! Come see wonder oooo!
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by jason123: 9:51pm On Jan 09, 2011|
. Hilarious and sarcastic. Love it!
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 9:53pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Johnson's account stems from the belief that Yoruba cosmotolgy derives from two cosmic forces similar to Zoroastrian and Christian Gnostic traditions. Whilst the Zoroastrian and Christian Gnostic traditions believe that the two forces are opposing and antagonistic, the Yoruba belief that all things, including good and bad, work for the same purpose. Despite the congruent similarities, Yoruba did not derive from gnostic christians.
See books below for more information
Eliade, Mircea. 1969. The Quest: History and Meaning in Religion.
Lawal, Babatunde. 1974. "Some Aspects of Yoruba Aesthetics
Abimbola, Wande. 1971. "The Yoruba Concept of Human Personality
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by isalegan2: 9:54pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Stranger has attacked me enough. I'm just having fun. hehehehe.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by ekubear1: 9:56pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Just in case ya'll don't know, @fstranger has a heart of gold. So don't get offended by what he says
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by isalegan2: 9:57pm On Jan 09, 2011|
I'm not offended. I get him. Sometimes.
But am not gonna stop harassing him whenever I feel like it. He did it to me. Unprovoked. Numerous times, I might add! And I took it in stride. So, he better grow thicker skin.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by jason123: 9:58pm On Jan 09, 2011|
We know and we love him!!!!
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 9:58pm On Jan 09, 2011|
What is your version of Yoruba origins? Lets start from there.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 9:59pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Did he donate a kidney?
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 10:01pm On Jan 09, 2011|
His grandsons expanded his kingdom. Explain what you meant by your chicken and egg analogy; I don't get it.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 10:02pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Me thinks he donated both his balls. . . .
LOL Just jokin. . . .loffs his sense of humor tho
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 10:04pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Stop debating like a kid. Be specific about what you disagree with and why you disagree with it. I don't like ungrounded debates. You are yet to tell us your version of Yoruba origin. For instance, what Yoruba history did I distort?
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 10:06pm On Jan 09, 2011|
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 10:10pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Which came first, the Benin empire of the Oyo empire? Unfortunately the monarchs in my opinion are too busy fighting a supremacy battle to tell us the real truth. I know Eweka started a new dynasty in Benin but if Ekaladerhan was really returning home, why rename Uselu (his real home) Ilu Ibinu
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 10:19pm On Jan 09, 2011|
You are not seriously postulating that Oyo might have come before Benin. Ekaladerhan did not return to Benin; he claimed he was too old for the journey. He sent Oranmiyan (Oranyan) instead. It was Oranyan who renamed Igodomigodo Ile Ubinu. It was Oranmiyan's son that became Eweka the 1st. Oranmiyan later founded Oyo at Oyo Ile.
When the Benin chief's found Ekaladerhan at Ife, they begged him to return with them but he said he was too old to travel and that Ife was his own. He then promised them that he would send his grandson if they could pass his test. Chief Oliha was the head of that delegation and he traveled with Oranmiyan to Bini after they passed Oduduwa's test.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 10:31pm On Jan 09, 2011|
I meant Oranmiyan in my previous post, his renaming Uselu still does not make sense to me. As for Oyo empire as we know it does not precede Benin's ofcourse because we at least know that Oduduwa united the smaller kingdoms he found around Ile-Ife.
Can you really know for certain that Oduduwa is really Ekaladerhan? Don't dismiss the possibility that Oranmiyan may have chosen to travel like his grandfather and I still don't get his renaming his grandfather's kingdom Ilu Ibinu. I really don't know enough about the subject just to debate it sha I'll admit.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 10:47pm On Jan 09, 2011|
Oranmiyan left Igodomigodo in annoyance and called it Ile Ubinu for three reasons
1. He did not speak or understand the language
2. His customs were different from theirs
3. The Benin people often wondered why Yoruba rituals were often done in secret and their curiosity led them to peep on Oranmiyan when he was performing his rituals. This annoyed him greatly making him leave Bini including his pregnant wife, Erinmwinde at her father's (Enogie of Egor) house.
If Oduduwa was not Ekaladerhan, why was his son accepted by the Bini people? We know Ife did not wage war on Bini to capture it. The last king in Bini was called Ogiso Owodo and the new king (Oranmiyan's son) was called Oba Eweka the 1st. Ogiso Owodo died without another heir and temporary custody of Bini went to Evian. The Bini people resisted Evian's attempt to make his son, Irebor, the king on the basis that his father was not an Ogiso. Why would they accept the son of a stranger as king when they rejected the son of a powerful chief, who killed a legendary snake and saved Bini lives.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 10:49pm On Jan 09, 2011|
I am still awaiting your version of Yoruba origins.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 11:32pm On Jan 09, 2011|
If Oduduwa was not Ekaladerhan, why was his son accepted by the Bini people?
And why would the people of Ile-Ife and environs accept Oduduwa and let him rule over them? I just think you are too quick to accept the Bini version. I'm not saying you are wrong but I read another version a few years ago that said Oduduwa was actually from Southern Sudan, he supposedly left around 750 AD due to the incursion of Islam. In fact the author went on to compare Oduduwa's features to that of the Sudanese which I thought were quite striking.
His knowledge of alchemy, mathematics ( Odu Ifa as we know it were said to be taught by Oduduwa himself) etc were the reason why the original people of Ife and environs made him ruler over them. Unfortunately I can't recall the author's name and none of my internet searches have provided a link to the author.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 11:53pm On Jan 09, 2011|
The problem I have with the versions of flight about Oduduwa is that they are very inconsistent. Some claim he came from Egypt, some Sudan, others Saudi Arabia. Some say his father was Lamurudu who was in fact Nimrod. There are far too many inconsistencies for me to accept those versions. The Bini version, however, is very detailed. There are records of Ekaladerhan's flight from Bini, his journey through Ughoton and other villages. The visit of the Bini chiefs, Oliha, Edohen and Eholo-Nire, and the tests they were given by Oduduwa are also documented.
That is true about Oduduwa's acceptance but Oranmiyan's acceptance by the Bini is different for the reasons mentioned in my previous post.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Nobody: 12:10am On Jan 10, 2011|
The problem that I have with the Bini version is that I 'd expect more similarities between Yoruba and Bini traditions if he really was Ekaladerhan. The traditions that Oduduwa brought to Ife would have been from Bini, therefore, one would expect much greater similarities in traditions. You'd expect that we'd at least share the Ifa traditions considering Oduduwa taught it.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 12:27am On Jan 10, 2011|
You ignore the following factors
1. Ekaladerhan was a fugitive prince
2. There were customs in Ife when he got there
3. His herbal medicine and hunting skills were accepted
4. How many Ife traditions did Bini accept from Oranyan?
5. Oduduwa's sons established many towns; how similar are the traditions of Owu, ketu, Benin, Orangun, sabe, popo, Ijesha & Oyo
Customs and traditions are often more than just one man.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Eziachi: 1:02am On Jan 10, 2011|
Just Imo State Alone
- Adekunle Lawal
- Sunday Adenihun
- Abdulkarim Adisa
- Bolaji Otiko
- Tanko Zubairu
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Eziachi: 1:39am On Jan 10, 2011|
Another apostle of one Nigeria who has no idea what it means.
Funny when the oil money is being shared, the same sentiment tend to disappear.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Eziachi: 1:54am On Jan 10, 2011|
Not weird, its called investment, I have two duplex properties in Abuja since 1993 but I had never set foot in Abuja till date. Sold one last year with 150% profit and the other is rented and paid cash for 25 years by a foreign embassy. Everything is done throughA RELIABLE property managing company-Bank-DHL.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by Katsumoto: 1:19pm On Jan 10, 2011|
It appears that we have differing opinions as to what one Nigeria means; but I suspect my definition will be accepted by a majority since you have stated several times that you are not a Nigerian but a Biafran. You are attempting to take panadol for another man's headache.
Since you believe that one Nigeria implies that any Nigerian can contest and win an election in any ward in Nigeria, care to share with us the number of non-Igbo candidates who have won elections in Igbo states. I would also like to know the names of Eastern minorities (Ibibio, Efik, Anang, Ogoni, Ijaw, etc) who have won electins in Imo, Enugu, Anambra, Ebonyi, and Abia. When you attempt to answer the question please put the following into consideration.
1. Governorship seats
2. Senatorial seats
3. House of representative seats
4. State House of Representatives
5. Elections in 1979, 1983, 1992, 1999, 2003, 2007
If the number you come up with is less than 5% of the number of seats on offer (of all elections), then you are making an asinine point.
|Re: Are Lagos State Politicians Are Mostly Moslem? by jason123: 1:23pm On Jan 10, 2011|
I am also waiting for the answer to that question.
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