lawani:
benin kingdom is now edo but the old empire had more yoruba than edo and the palace which spoke Yoruba was a city on its own with over 50 thousand people who were all Yoruba speakers in the past. The edo lived in the suburbs.

Statements like this are not automitically true simply because we've uttered them.

What makes them true is the evidence that substantiates them.

Do you have any such evidence in this case?

Etinosa1234:
This is a complete fallacy..

I can also wake up one day and claim that the lingua franca of the oyo Empire was Hausa.....
it doesn't correlate at all..

If they were speaking Yoruba as at that time..Edo language would have completely died by now..

if They were actually speaking Yoruba then...then what led to the decline of the language in the land...

You can hardly find a Homegrown benin that can hear Yoruba sef
There is no source, link , evidence or proof that this happened....

what u and the other guy are saying is even contradictory.. he said Yoruba citizens, u are saying Yoruba speaking Benin
it's All bunch of lies and fallacy..

I never wanted to get involved..but it's really annoying

Notice that I didn't say that the populace of the Benin Kingdom are Yoruba people.

No, they aren't. They are Edos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, the point I'm making is that the Kingdom of Benin (and its palace) adopted the Yoruba langugae as its lingua-franca.

Now, did I just wake up to say this without any evidence? Of course no.

There are eye witness European documentions around the 1600s which attest to this fact.

This is different from the claim (you noted that you can wake to begin making someday) that the "lingua franca of the Oyo Empire was Hausa."

However, be rest assured that there are no historical documentations to support those statements you've promised to make in case you eventually wake up to begin making them just as promised.

TAO11:


Notice that I didn't say that the populace of the Benin Kingdom are Yoruba people.

No, they aren't. They are Edos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, the point I'm making is that the Kingdom of Benin (and its palace) adopted the Yoruba langugae as its lingua-franca.

Now, did I just wake up to say this without any evidence? Of course no.

There are [b]eye witness European documentions around the 1600s which attest to this fact.
[/b]

This is different from the statement (you noted that you can wake to begin claiming someday) that the "lingua franca of the oyo Empire was Hausa."

However, be rest assured that there are no historical documentations for such statement in case you eventually wake up to begin saying it as you've promised.

At the bolded...pls can I see it..

I've searched Google and what I'm getting is not it
As I don't know what led to the palace speaking Yoruba as a lingua franca...

However I can begin to say it until u show when it happened especially when it was a Benin speaking oba That ruled...

if it even happened..it would have been noted in the Benin history

lawani:
I am not talking of today's Benin kingdom which is edo but of the empire which used Yoruba as lingua and had more Yoruba citizens than edo.

Mumumboy



Do you mean in the oba palace there are still yoruba gods still worshiped by the oba today


Atleast if yorubas were in the palace like you said before benin migrant pushed them out, what was the trace the yorubas were the ones once ruling before the benin arrived......

Etinosa1234:


At the bolded...pls can I see it..

I've searched Google and what I'm getting is not it
As I don't know what led to the palace speaking Yoruba as a lingua franca...

However I can begin to say it until u show when it happened especially when it was a Benin speaking oba That ruled...

if it even happened..it would have been noted in the Benin history

As requested, please refer to the 1st attachment for the relevant documention of the French father in the year 1640.

The 2nd attachment is from page 209 of Professor R.C.C Law's "Ethnicity and the Slave Trade".

In this article, Professor R.C.C. Law also cites the French Father's 1640 documention of the fact that the Yoruba language was a lingua-franca in Benin Kingdom.

[See the 2nd red highlight of the 2nd attachment for this].

Interestingly, the Spanish Jesuit, Alonso de Sandoval also documents, in the 1600s, that even the palace administration of the whole Kingdom of Benin was via Yoruba language.

[See the 1st red highlight of the 1st attachment for this].

TAO11:


As requested, please refer to the 1st attachment for the relevant documention of the French father in the year 1640.

The 2nd attachment is from page 209 of Professor R.C.C Law's "Ethnicity and the Slave Trade".

In this article, Professor R.C.C. Law also cites the French Father's 1640 documention of the fact that the Yoruba language was a lingua-franca in Benin Kingdom.

[See the 2nd red highlight of the 2nd attachment for this].

Interestingly, the Spanish Jesuit, Alonso de Sandoval also documents, in the 1600s, that even the palace administration of the whole Kingdom of Benin was via Yoruba language.

[See the 1st red highlight of the 1st attachment for this].

Didn't u see where they said it was a hearsay
did the report tell u what led to the decline of Yoruba language in Benin... otherwise it's not a credible sources to me

Besides whats the alkomjs language...

Sometimes...its not all the reports of the white u'll believe but because it favours ur tribe ... therefore it's true to u

Etinosa1234:


Didn't u see where they said it was a hearsay
did the report tell u what led to the decline of Yoruba language in Benin... otherwise it's not a credible sources to me

Besides whats the alkomjs language...

Sometimes...its not all the reports of the white u'll believe but because it favours ur tribe ... therefore it's true to u

Pls don't waste your time arguing with this land grabbers.

They got excited with an old propaganda that their language was used in the Benin palace and didnt bother to ask if it was really true.

They didnt bother to ask how possible is it for Oba of Benin and his administrators to relegate the Edo language and adopt a foreign language while the citizens were still using the Edo language.


They didnt even ask who taught the oba and his administrators the yoruba language.


Simply put they threw away every sense of reasoning and bought the propaganda whole.

You shouldn't argue with them. Every reasonable person knows it's a big lie and wouldn't even think about it.

sotall:


Pls don't waste your time arguing with this land grabbers.

They got excited with an old propaganda that their language was used in the Benin palace and didnt bother to ask if it was really true.

They didnt bother to ask how possible is it for Oba of Benin and his administrators to relegate the Edo language and adopt a foreign language while the citizens were still using the Edo language.


They didnt even ask who taught the oba and his administrators the yoruba language.


Simply put they threw away every sense of reasoning and bought the propaganda whole.

You shouldn't argue with them. Every reasonable person knows it's a big lie and wouldn't even think about it.

Thanks bro...The thing jus dey funny to me...

How a whole Oba of Benin wey be the custodian of the culture go drop the prestigious culture and start to speak another language...and the people nor go fight against am...

I be nor wan put mouth ooo...but the way that law.ani jus dey talk am boldly..him go feel say na true he dey talk because nobody counter am

Etinosa1234:


(1) Didn't u see where they said it was a hearsay

(2) did the report tell u what led to the decline of Yoruba language in Benin... otherwise it's not a credible sources to me

(3) Besides whats the alkomjs language...

(4) Sometimes ... its not all the reports of the white u'll believe but because it favours ur tribe ... therefore it's true to u

(1) The mention of "heresay" here has absolutely nothing to do with Benin Kingdom.

Rather, it is about the fact that by the 1600s, the Europeans never visited the interior homeland of the Lucumis.

In other words, they only got descriptions of this place from Benin Kingdom (to its south east), and from Allada and Whydah (to its south west), as well as from the coastal areass of Lucumi itself.

On the other hand, the Europeans have been visiting Benin Kingdom itself (among other places) as early as this time, and in fact ven earlier.

Read that again but this time with an open mind.

Listen, I understand why you feel uneasy by this historical fact.

(2) Are you really sure you read what you typed? I am not sure you were listening along to yourself while typing this.

What you're saying here is that this 1640 report should have prophesied the future decline of this lingua-franca. Lol.

Are you saying this because the account was originally written by a French missionary?

I think you should consider a career in comedy!

(3) The fact that you didn't know this already but yet want to have a debate on African history or languge (particularly the atlantic coast of West Africa) is even more pathetic.

Pick up a book, and read up. Return here after having some basics.

(4) I don't care if the report was made by a green, gold, or blue man.

What matters to any sane person is that the report was made by someone on ground, who himself is a neutral/independent observer with no Yoruba or Benin tribal superiority stake.

For example, some eyewitness European reports tell of how the Binis were still largely roaming st@rk naked even in as late as the late-1890s.

And in case you're wondering, I can't remember anything in history that links European and Yorubas as kinsmen. Lol

cc: lawani, sotall

TAO11:


(1) The mention of "heresay" here has absolutely nothing to do with Benin Kingdom.

Rather, it is about the fact that as at the 1600s, the Europeans never visited the interior of the homeland of the Lucumi people.

In other words, they only got descriptions of this place from Benin to its south east, and from Allada and Whydah to its south west, and from the coastal regions of Lucumi itself.

On the other contrary, the Europeans visited Benin Kingdom (among other places) itself as early as this time, even earlier.

Listen, I understand why you feel uneasy by this historical fact.

(2) Are you really sure you read what you typed? I am not sure you were listening along to yourself while typing this.

What you're saying here is that this 1640 report should have prophesied the future decline of this lingua-franca. Lol.

Are you saying this because the account was originally written by a French missionary?

I think you should consider a career in comedy!

(3) The fact that you didn't know this already but yet want to have a debate on African history or languge (particularly the atlantic coast of West Africa) is even more pathetic.

Pick up a book, and read up. Return here after having some basics.

(4) I don't care if the report was made by a green, gold, or blue man.

What matters to any sane person is that the report was made by someone on ground who himself is a neutral/independent observer with no Yoruba or Benin tribal superiority stake.

For example, some eyewitness European reports tell of how the Binis were still largely roaming st@rk naked even in as late as the late-1890s.

And in case you're wondering, I can't remember anything that says

cc: sotall

Alaye..All this thing u are saying is long story and its illogical

There are no evidence in the Benin kingdom that the Oba was surrounded by Yoruba speaking people...
They should have even mentioned the name of the Oba ruling then to confirm the authenticity of their report


Besides if there should be an account that Yoruba was spoken as a lingua franca in the palace...there should have been supporting reports on what brought abt the decline of the language in the palace...after all ... There are reports about almost every oba that has ruled and no one mentioned that Yoruba was the lingua franca of the palace..

The First report, did the account specify the name of the Oba ruling as at that time(he def must know him)

Even if the report was written by the Queen of England, sometimes u have to reason critically as to whether they were true or not...The French person who wrote it, can he differentiate between Bini and Yoruba language... Was there any account that he was fluent in either language

The fact that u believe that report as true makes me think u want to be my comedy partner..

we'll reign over the jokes section

Etinosa1234:

Alaye..All this thing u are saying is long story and its illogical

There are no evidence in the Benin kingdom that the Oba was surrounded by Yoruba speaking people...
They should have even mentioned the name of the Oba ruling then to confirm the authenticity of their report


Besides if there should be an account that Yoruba was spoken as a lingua franca in the palace...there should have been supporting reports on what brought abt the decline of the language in the palace...after all ... There are reports about almost every oba that has ruled and no one mentioned that Yoruba was the lingua franca of the palace..

Even if the report was written by the Queen of England, sometimes u have to reason critically as to whether they were true or not...The French person who wrote it, can he differentiate between Bini and Yoruba language... Was there any account that he was fluent in either language

The fact that u believe that report as true makes me think u want to be my comedy partner..

we'll reign over the jokes section

An eyewitness European account in the year 1640 tells of event in the same year 1640 about the lingua-franca of Benin Kingdom.

An emotional Bini Nairalander 380 years later said he is to be believed, and not the 1640 report of events happening in the same year 1640.

May God forgive the Father C0lumbin of Nantes for documenting his observations.

May God also forgive Sandoval for documenting his own independent observation.

May God for give them for not agreeing with you!

Sighs!

TAO11:


An eyewitness European account in the year 1640 tells of event in the 1640 about the lingua-france of Benin Kingdom.

An emotional Bini Nairalander 380 years later said he is to be believed, and not the 1640 report about the year 1640.

May God forgive the Father C0lumbin of Nantes for documenting his observations.

May God also forgive Sandoval for document his own independent observation.

May God for give them for not agreeing with you!

Sighs!

I'm Benin doesn't mean I can't reason critically...

Forget ethic sentiments, won't the palace lingua franca cause civil unrest, ..
We are all humans and we won't like other tribes lord over us by any means

Is that not the reason the southeast is always crying marginalisation

There is no way.. an Oba and his chiefs born and brought up in Benin culture would suddenly make Yoruba the lingua franca, a language that they don't understand

Does it sound logical to U?

Those people that wrote it...Are they fluent in either languages??
Or because it favours ur tribe that u threw logical reasoning to the bushes

So Because it was a white person that wrote it, we should accept it as true as the zombies u want us to be

Etinosa1234:

I'm Benin doesn't mean I can't reason critically...

There is no way.. an Oba and his chiefs born and brought up in Benin culture would suddenly make Yoruba the lingua franca, a language that they don't understand

Does it sound logical to U?

Those people that wrote it...Are they fluent in either languages??
Or because it favours ur tribe that u threw logical reasoning to the bushes

So Because it was a white person that wrote it, we should accept it as true as the zombies u want us to be

if the palace did not understand Yoruba how do you think they dealt with the eastern Yoruba which were part of the Benin empire?.

lawani:
if the palace did not understand Yoruba how do you think they dealt with the eastern Yoruba which were part of the Benin empire?.

How was Benin able to conquer up to present day delta state

How was the Fulani able to conquer Ilorin

How was the old Oyo Empire able to keep Dahomey at bay

There lies ur answer

Etinosa1234:


How was Benin able to conquer up to present day delta state

How was the Fulani able to conquer Ilorin

How was the old Oyo Empire able to keep Dahomey at bay

There lies ur answer

The language of Ilorin was and is still Yoruba. You can't amount to anything in Ilorin without speaking Yoruba. It was so in the past and still so today. The dahomey spoke Yoruba while dealing with oyo. The question now is what was the lingua franca of the old Benin empire?.

Etinosa1234:


(1) I'm Benin doesn't mean I can't reason critically...

(2) There is no way.. an Oba and his chiefs born and brought up in Benin culture would suddenly make Yoruba the lingua franca, a language that they don't understand

Does it sound logical to U?

(3) Those people that wrote it...Are they fluent in either languages??

(4) Or because it favours ur tribe that u threw logical reasoning to the bushes

(5) So Because it was a white person that wrote it, we should accept it as true as the zombies u want us to be

(1) Are you saying you're simply an exception to the normal Bini default.

(2) People born and raised in a different culture is the evidence that they can't (and won't) adopt a different language as lingua-franca? Wow

I think you should observe around you more closely, or pick up a book and read as adviced earlier.

(3) It's looking like I've got a lot of teaching to do here.

Europeans first visited Benin Kingdom towards the end of the 1400s.

May be you should ask if there ever was any communication between them and the locals for over 400 years of their continued presence in the region.

(4) Perhaps you should ask yourself the reverse of that question.

(5) I'm still searching for where you got this from in any of my comment.

The most related statement to this I ever made here is as follows:

I don't care if the report was made by a green, gold, or blue man. 

What matters to any sane person is that the report was made by someone on ground, who himself is a neutral/independent observer with no Yoruba or Benin tribal superiority stake.

Etinosa1234:


Thanks bro...The thing jus dey funny to me...

How a whole Oba of Benin wey be the custodian of the culture go drop the prestigious culture and start to speak another language...and the people nor go fight against am...

I be nor wan put mouth ooo...but the way that law.ani jus dey talk am boldly..him go feel say na true he dey talk because nobody counter am

Dont mind the bitch called tao11 you never find her in any other post apart from benin-yoruba thread only coming to spill lies, the funny thing you wont even find her in a Yoruba post, she got a benin-yoruba obsession syndrome when you hit her with fact be ready to get insulted by her,
Dont throw truth at her she hates it, again she lack a reasoning capacity, if an articles favours her she will quickly post it without any review aslong it suit her narrative, the newer yoruba junky on board now is lawani. That one is, his own authority, anything that comes out of his head he post it and becomes truth you will never see him citing works or reading books from any author he believes he is a better author than other scholars . Moneywomen17 wants to Bleep TAO11 so he keeps licking her ass

gregyboy:


Dont mind the bitch called tao11 you never find her in any other post apart from benin-yoruba thread only coming to spill lies, the funny thing you wont even find her in a Yoruba post, she got a benin-yoruba obsession syndrome when you hit her with fact be ready to get insulted by her,
Dont throw truth at her she hates it, again she lack a reasoning capacity, if an articles favours her she will quickly post it without any review aslong it suit her narrative, the newer yoruba junky on board now is lawani. That one is, his own authority, anything that comes out of his head he post it and becomes truth you will never see him citing works or reading books from any author he believes he is a better author than other scholars . Moneywomen17 wants to Bleep TAO11 so he keeps licking her ass

lawani:
The language of Ilorin was and is still Yoruba. You can't amount to anything in Ilorin without speaking Yoruba. It was so in the past and still so today. The dahomey spoke Yoruba while dealing with oyo. The question now is what was the lingua franca of the old Benin empire?.

How did the British conquer nigeria without speaking 300 plus languages.....

gregyboy:



How did the British conquer nigeria without speaking 300 plus languages.....

The lingua franca of the British empire was English. We were in the British empire is why we speak English today. The question I am asking you people is what was the lingua franca of the old Benin empire?.

TAO11:


(1) People born and raised in a different culture is the evidence that they can't (and won't) adopt a different language as lingua-franca? Wow

I think you should observe around you more closely, or pick up a book and read as adviced earlier.

(2) It's looking like I've got a lot of teaching to do here.

Europeans first visited Benin Kingdom towards the end of the 1400s.

May be you should ask if there ever was any communication between them and the locals for over 400 years of their continued presence in the region.

(3) Perhaps you should ask yourself the reverse of that question.

(4) I'm still searching for where you got this from in any of my comment.

The most related statement to this I ever made here is as follows:

I don't care if the report was made by a green, gold, or blue man. 

What matters to any sane person is that the report was made by someone on ground, who himself is a neutral/independent observer with no Yoruba or Benin tribal superiority stake.

See ...Forget this made up report that u are posting here...

How will the Oba and the palace chiefs drop his own culture to suddenly learn Yoruba..

U think it's that easy to suddenly learn a new language?

Who was the Oba ruling at that time?

Was there a civil unrest as at a time it happened?

Why is it not known in Benin culture that there was a Time the palace was speaking Yoruba.

search the history of Benin in ten different documents and u'll never see any report such..

Forget..Even those whites are not immune to mistakes..

But because they said it, it automatically becomes true

That report is incorrect and illogical

gregyboy:


How did the British conquer nigeria without speaking 300 plus languages.....

Conquering Benin Kingdom is equivalent to conquering every single dialectal-group under it.

Same goes for every other region. Nobody has to speak 300 plus languages.

I had always thought that your dumbness wasn't this grand.

I was wrong!

lawani:
The lingua franca of the British empire was English. We were in the British empire is why we speak English today. The question I am asking you people is what was the lingua franca of the old Benin empire?.

Oga you asked how benin conquered eastern yorubas without speaking Yoruba as communicating

Now you're saying a different thing like say nigerians spoke English before British conquered us........


To your question we benins spoke edo language
After conquering a town we put a duke to rule on our behalf with few entourage to aid him in governance, over time the benin dukes and subkect in those areas looses thier thier language because of thier few numbers after so many generations this duke predecessors even rebel against the oba, untill thier later curtailed

TAO11:


Conquering Benin Kingdom is equivalent to conquering every single dialectal-group under it.

Same goes for every other region. Nobody has to speak 300 plus languages.

I had always thought that your dumbness wasn't this grand.

I was wrong!

This one nor get sense,

Yoruba people una get problem oo no wonder hausa people they by una conscience with 10 biscuit

TAO11:


(1) Are you saying you're simply an exception to the normal Bini default.

(2) People born and raised in a different culture is the evidence that they can't (and won't) adopt a different language as lingua-franca? Wow

I think you should observe around you more closely, or pick up a book and read as adviced earlier.

(3) It's looking like I've got a lot of teaching to do here.

Europeans first visited Benin Kingdom towards the end of the 1400s.

May be you should ask if there ever was any communication between them and the locals for over 400 years of their continued presence in the region.

(4) Perhaps you should ask yourself the reverse of that question.

(5) I'm still searching for where you got this from in any of my comment.

The most related statement to this I ever made here is as follows:

I don't care if the report was made by a green, gold, or blue man. 

What matters to any sane person is that the report was made by someone on ground, who himself is a neutral/independent observer with no Yoruba or Benin tribal superiority stake.

Forget that made up report...

How will the Oba and the palace chiefs and the workers who were obviously brought up in Benin suddenly start speaking Yoruba

Do u think its easy to start speaking a new language..Can u speak Igbo, Hausa fluently?

Search like 10 different documents about the Oba history and u'll never see such report..
Even BBC Never included such report, what could that mean?
Pls who was the Oba ruling then. .

How were the people able to adapt to the language?

If that report was true...there would have been reports of unrest in kingdom attributing to this fact

If that report were true, there would have been clear evidence and proof of it..not that it would be hidden to the 95% of both the Yoruba and Benin people

gregyboy:




Oga you asked how benin conquered eastern yorubas without speaking Yoruba as communicating

Now you're saying a different thing like say nigerians spoke English before British conquered us........


To your question we benins spoke edo language
After conquering a town we put a duke to rule on our behalf with few entourage to aid him in governance, over time the benin dukes and subkect in those areas looses thier thier language because of thier few numbers after so many generations this duke predecessors even rebel against the oba, untill thier later curtailed

we speak English today because English was the lingua franca of the British empire. There is no empire in world history without a lingua franca and your edo language does not pass Benin city.

lawani:
The lingua franca of the British empire was English. We were in the British empire is why we speak English today. The question I am asking you people is what was the lingua franca of the old Benin empire?.

U are clearly ignorant and biased..

Empire consist of conquered states..
Before the British conquered us,... were we speaking English?

when they attacked us, were we speaking English

lawani:
The language of Ilorin was and is still Yoruba. You can't amount to anything in Ilorin without speaking Yoruba. It was so in the past and still so today. The dahomey spoke Yoruba while dealing with oyo. The question now is what was the lingua franca of the old Benin empire?.

The language of Benin was always Benin

U don't have to learn another language to conquer people

Germany defeated the French without learning it, America fought the Arabs without learning it...

So if the Benin conquered eastern Yoruba..they should have been speaking Benin and not Yoruba..

U see!!

Etinosa1234:


U are clearly ignorant and biased..

Empire consist of conquered states..
Before the British conquered us,... were we speaking English?

when they attacked us, were we speaking English

we had to learn English. English is to the British empire what Yoruba was to the Benin empire.

lawani:
we had to learn English. English is to the British empire what Yoruba was to the Benin empire.

Wasn't it after we were conquered??

Did Yoruba ever defeat Benin??

if ur answer is yes, Then when??

if no, then why are u arguing with me

Etinosa1234:


(1) See ...Forget this made up report that u are posting here...

(2) How will the Oba and the palace chiefs drop his own culture to suddenly learn Yoruba..

(3) U think it's that easy to suddenly learn a new language?

(4) Who was the Oba ruling at that time?

(5) Was there a civil unrest as at a time it happened?

(6) Why is it not known in Benin culture that there was a Time the palace was speaking Yoruba.

(7) search the history of Benin in ten different documents and u'll never see any report such..

( Forget..Even those whites are not immune to mistakes.

(9) But because they said it, it automatically becomes true

(10) That report is incorrect and illogical

(1) Made-up because it says what you dislike. Even your favorite Olfert Dapper confirms it. Lol.

Independent attestentations are made up, even as this claim is unsubstantiated. Isn't God wonderful?

(2) I'm now beginning to think than Latin was the indigenous language of all European cultures for them to all have adopted it at some point.

Even now I'm beginning to think that pidin-English is originally part of the ancient indigenous culture of Southern Nigeria. lnteresting!

(3) You're right. It's not easy. If not, we would have been typing these comments in a foreign language like English.

Oh wait, are we typing in English already?

(4) Going by the official listing of Benin Kings, it's a certain Oba Ohuan. What's the point being made here.

(5) Was there a civil unrest before all Europe once adopted Latin as their lingua-franca?

Was their a civil unrest before Allada and Whydah preferred and esteemed the Yoruba language over their own native tongue, as documented in the same report?

(6) Except that it is known, but it is usually given a different spin for the sake of the public.

Think about the circumstance surrounding the name "Eweka" of Eweka the first.

Why do you think Benin Kings attended conferences of Yoruba 'Chiefs'?

(7) Histories of Benin with focus on all languages spoken in the Kingdom?

If yes, them bring them on and I will point out Yoruba languages to you one after the other.

(8 ) Yes, except that a 380-years-later assumption of mistake can not possibly override a 1640 eyewitness report just like that.

(9) No! It is true for other reasons as have been explained again and again.

(10) This is the very thing you're out to prove. So, please prove it.

gregyboy:


[s]This one nor get sense,

Yoruba people una get problem oo no wonder hausa people they by una conscience with 10 biscuit[/s]

Emotional outbursts, after been exposed as a dummy, is all I see here.