Maximus69:
(1) God is the one who gave intelligent creatures (angels or humans) the gift of speech, while angels had their own (higher than man's) humans were also given. Angels could easily grasp our own since they're superior when talking about the likeness of God because they're also spirits. Humans can't grasp their own because we are lesser beings, so Jesus spoke their language but granted only Paul the ability to discern what he said!

Maximus69:
(2) Because those traveling along with Paul were sent on a mission 'to arrest Christians', Jesus need to communicate with Paul (his main target) in a strange language so that none of them might know Paul's next move, note that Paul was only leading the team, so after Jesus had taken Paul away from the team, the Pharisees were highly disappointed and provoked as their best trained scholar now embraced Christianity (the group they wanted dead).

Maximus69:
(3)Of course but the understanding was only granted to his closest confidants while others just noticed that a strange voice probably that of an angel (as they reasoned) spoke with him!

Maximus69:
(4)JW language!

Myer:
Maybe we need to juxtapose both verses for you to know that your interpretation is flawed.

Acts 9:7
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

The contradiction is inexcusable sir.
He was not speaking of understanding here.
As you rightly said, Luke was a medical expert. Makes you question his attention to details though.

He said they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 but then said they did not hear a voice in Acts 22:9

He was not in any of these verses referring to their comprehension of the voice but that they did not hear the voice at all in Acts 22:9.

This brings to mind the baptism of Christ, where he saw the heaven open and the voice of God saying he is truly the Son in whom he is pleased. Yet only Christ heard it and no one else, maybe only John the baptist. And several other divine communication between God and Christ.

Although I'm still trying to understand why you decided to compare me to Caiaphas.lol come on, am I that bad?
They say God can speak through any vessel. He even spoke through a donkey right?

Maximus69:
Please how do you comprehend this when a Yoruba man say~

Mi o gbo nkan to nso

loosely translated

I don't hear what he's saying

Of course what this means

I don't UNDERSTAND what he is saying
That doesn't mean he never heard anything!

I could recollect back in school when one of my mates asked our English teacher (Briton) "do you hear Yoruba?"

Mr Franz responded enthusiastically "Yes"

The girl spoke Yoruba and asked Mr Franz to translate, surprisingly he said "i heard what you said but you never asked if i understand the language!

So don't forget that the writers only had information to pass across to us, we are to bring it home by meditating on similar occurences in our own environment to grasp what exactly they meant by those writings!

Myer:
Actually in yoruba there is a difference.

Mi o gbo could be interpreted as I didnt hear you or I didn't understand you.

But I heard a voice but I did not understand in Yoruba is;

Mo gbo ohun sugbon ko ye mi.

You see how these are 2 distinct scenarios?

Don't try to interprete the scriptures to suit your meaning.
Interprete what the scripture itself means.

It is obviously an inexcusable contradiction.

There's more if you care to see.

MuttleyLaff:
It trips up, a lot, quite a few of our Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters and it leaves me laughing very hard. On the face of it, they appear contradictory and so you find some argumentative Muslim and Atheist brothers/sisters come up waving those two verses about crying blue murder, that they are inconsistencies, when they aren't, lmao. Doing a thorough or detailed review of the verses would have saved them from slipping on that banana skin.

The construct used in the two verses, we also often use it too, when conversing in Yoruba.

Case in point 1:
"Ẹ ku irọle, sir". Though you heard me, but you, pretending not to have heard, prolly from still nursing an earlier vex, will respond "Mi o gbọ ẹ"

Loosely translated means:
"Good evening, sir". Though you heard me, but you, pretending not to have heard, prolly from still nursing an earlier vex, will respond "I don't hear you"

Case in point 2:
"Good evening, sir". Though you loud and clearly heard me, but since you don't understand nor speak English, will in Yoruba, honestly and truthfully say "Mi o gbọ ẹ" ( i.e. ''I don't understand you'')

Myer:


I just edited my response.

Your explanation is flawed because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event here but the same Paul who stated that they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 also stating that they did not hear the voice in Acts 22:9.

But I understand you will go to any length to try to defend the bible. But would do the same for other religious books such as the Quran if they made they same goof?

Myer:
I just edited my response.

Your explanation is flawed because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event here but the same Paul who stated that they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 also stating that they did not hear the voice in Acts 22:9.

But I understand you will go to any length to try to defend the bible. But would do the same for other religious books such as the Quran if they made they same goof?

Myer:


I just edited my response.

Your explanation is flawed because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event here but the same Paul who stated that they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 also stating that they did not hear the voice in Acts 22:9.

But I understand you will go to any length to try to defend the bible. But would do the same for other religious books such as the Quran if they made they same goof?

MuttleyLaff:
=>(check) ✓ 0/10 Smh

=>(check) ✓ 7/10

MY QUESTION WAS UNCOMPLETED BUT I'VE GONE BACK TO COMPLETE IT. SORRY I COULDNT SCORE YOU HERE. I am guessing you're saying it was not an angel voice, so if that is your answer, then you would have scored or be scoring 11/10

=>(check) ✓ 0/10 Smh

MuttleyLaff:
"²⁷Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say?
‘Father, save Me from this hour’? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.
²⁸Father, glorify Your name!” Then a voice came from heaven:
“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
²⁹The crowd standing there heard it and said that it had thundered.
Others said that an angel had spoken to Him"
- John 12:27-29

Of course only Apostle Paul would have understood the voice, and this because or from the fact that, he speaks tongues/languages more than any of his contemporaries do. Often times, people like to put unfounded mysticism spin(s) on things they don't seem to understand or what puzzles them

Anyone could be an angel, we have celestial/extra-terrestrial beings as angels and we have a terrestrial/earth based being aka human beings as angels. Angels are messengers, are anyone sent out do do the bidding of God or to deliver message(s), announcement(s), proclamation(s) et cetera. The Angel of the Lord, wrestling with Jacob, was God. The Angel of the Lord with accompanied two other angels, was God visiting Abraham. Angel of the Lord is an Avatar of God.

I expect Jesus to have communicated to Apostle Paul, in a language or spoken in tongue, possibly only him alone would understand

1/ What sort of angel voice would this be that Jesus allegedly spoke with?
2/ Why couldn't it be just a simple, nondescript, ordinary and normal Jesus voice?
3/ Was the voice at John 12:28, that said: "“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”" spoken IN AN ANGEL VOICE?
4/ What tongue/language does God use when personally communicating with you?

Maximus69:
You asked me about my own faith Sir.

So it's left to you to talk about yours.

Maximus69:
My God speaks to all my brothers and sisters globally in the JW language/tongue.

Maximus69:
That's why everyone can testify to the PERFECT understanding amongst us throughout the earth! Zephaniah 3:9

Maximus69:
You guys are arguing about speaking in tongues while i have concentrated on the BENEFITS of the concept.

Maximus69:
Language is the gift of speech God gave intelligent creatures (angels or humans) the purpose is for mutual understanding in God's Organization! John 17:20-23

That's the greatest evidence of God's presence in the midst of his worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

JW language!

MuttleyLaff:


Those above were the 4 questions you were asked

This isn't something peculiar to JW

Please do an exegesis and correct hermeneutic of this verse

I don't see any arguing here, all I see are different perspective exchanges

On a scale of 0-9, where would you score the gift of speaking in tongues, with 9 being the highest possible score of 9/9, 1 being the lowest score of 1/9 and 0/9 means its no value

Maximus69:
If you think there is no argument, then it's fine!
Whatever anyone (including JWs) says about speaking in tongues is correct and there shouldn't be any need of exchange since each person will stick to whatever his/her religion practices anyway!

But as for we Jehovah's Witnesses, count us out when you're not ready to subscribe to our opinion on the concept!

Maximus69:
We only believe (trust) in FAITH that is yielding PRACTICAL BENEFITS Sir! James 2:26

MuttleyLaff:
I would rather be informed than be opinionated.

Rate the gift of speaking in tongues on a scale of 0-9

On a scale of 0-9, what score mark, would you give the gift of speaking in tongues, with 9 being the highest possible score of 9/9, 1 being the lowest score of 1/9 and 0/9 means its no value

Everyone, Goshen360, Acehart, Myer, Finallydead, hoopernikao aka hupernikao, Kobojunkie, vickydankal, ublight, Eulalia, meekhat, Amujale, Bodydialect57, orisa37 and others, are invited to rate the gift of speaking in tongues on a scale of 0-9.

Maximus69:
I can only speak of the JW language/tongue Sir!

Goshen360:
@ hoopernikao, Myer, Finallydead

1. It is clear from scriptures that what was spoken in Acts was understood by the people that gathered. Hence, we cannot argue on that as we all agreed.

2. So I came to 1 Corinthians 14 with open mind to investigate and practically apply this misunderstanding of the word "unknown"

3. Because I'm from Lagos state, Badagry so I decided to apply the tongue language of badagry man, "Egun"

4. Because the word "unknown" wasn't in originally translation, I simply read it out everywhere it occurred in 1 Corinthians 14 and everywhere I read "tongue or tongues" in KJV I replace with "language or languages"

5. Since the word "unknown" was added by translations for better understanding, I asked myself, what language or languages is unknown anyway? So I quickly brought my "Egun" language in as practical step......

Is you following me slowly.... ....Btw, that's loosed African American English called ebonics just like we have pidgin or broken English in Nigeria.

6. I STOP and pondered on this word "unknown" and decided to do some imagery in the setting of 1 Corinthians 14, that is, I brought in imagination of worshippers with different languages. So here we go....

So I'm the preacher....so I'm the preacher with egun language and in the audience are French, English, Spanish and Yoruba ( let's limit to those four). Now, remember I STOPPED to practically investigate the word "unknown" assuming I want to use this word while I read through 1 Corinthians 14. So, definitely "egun" language is KNOWN to me as the preacher but UNKNOWN to the listeners. Hence, that word "unknown" is not some sort of language(s) that's from nowhere adding the fact that it was added by translations. SO THAT WORD "UNKNOWN" doesn't apply to ME as the preacher BUT to the listener. In this practical case, egun is UNKNOWN to the listeners.

7. So I started reading slowly, inserting my practical languages and at the same time questioning the texts of Apostle Paul. So here we go: I re read the whole of 1 Corinthians 14 with that concept and it makes much clearer.

PART 2.

I did the SAME thing in the steps above BUT IN THIS CASE PART 2, Instead of using my Egun language, I decided to use the commonly taught and believed speaking in tongues taught us in churches in a practical manner but alas, I was caught in several verses of 1 Corinthians 14. How? So in this scenario my language is NOT egun but "unknown" as in UNKNOWN to me and the listeners....like, this below:

h t tps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ne5ZyWsP7Lk

Again I STOPPED and asked myself....why will I even speak in such WHEN EVEN ME NOR THE LISTENER DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THIS SO CALLED "unknown"? But I continued anyway to see my final outcome....

So, I used this option to practically interpret 1 Corinthians 14 to the end, i came to conclusions this OPTION 2 DOES NOT LINE UP WITH MANY VERSES OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14, verses such as.....verses 2 to 6, 13 - 14, 23 - 36.

You can practically do this PART 2 applying those verses and see how those verse starring at you in the face with the outcome....or better still, practically apply PART 1 using your language of choice to interpret the whole 1 Corinthians 14.
I hope we go back to RE-learn or unlearn somethings taught to us in the church while we're new born babes in the Lord.

MuttleyLaff:
"To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
- 1 Corinthians 12:10

Tbh and if truth be told brother, you actually are on the forefront of those, I sincerely hope will be grabbed, arrested and get convicted through the workings and help of the Holy Spirit about this misunderstood, misused and abused wonderful spiritual gift. It is one, out of the 9 possible different displayed evidences of having the Holy Spirit that could publicly be seen of anyone that's a believer (i.e. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11)

MuttleyLaff:



[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]
I think my time's now done here.
Praise God. Alleluia.

Goshen360:
@ hoopernikao, Myer, Finallydead

1. It is clear from scriptures that what was spoken in Acts was understood by the people that gathered. Hence, we cannot argue on that as we all agreed.

2. So I came to 1 Corinthians 14 with open mind to investigate and practically apply this misunderstanding of the word "unknown"

3. Because I'm from Lagos state, Badagry so I decided to apply the tongue language of badagry man, "Egun"

4. Because the word "unknown" wasn't in originally translation, I simply read it out everywhere it occurred in 1 Corinthians 14 and everywhere I read "tongue or tongues" in KJV I replace with "language or languages"

5. Since the word "unknown" was added by translations for better understanding, I asked myself, what language or languages is unknown anyway? So I quickly brought my "Egun" language in as practical step......

Is you following me slowly.... ....Btw, that's loosed African American English called ebonics just like we have pidgin or broken English in Nigeria.

6. I STOP and pondered on this word "unknown" and decided to do some imagery in the setting of 1 Corinthians 14, that is, I brought in imagination of worshippers with different languages. So here we go....

So I'm the preacher....so I'm the preacher with egun language and in the audience are French, English, Spanish and Yoruba ( let's limit to those four). Now, remember I STOPPED to practically investigate the word "unknown" assuming I want to use this word while I read through 1 Corinthians 14. So, definitely "egun" language is KNOWN to me as the preacher but UNKNOWN to the listeners. Hence, that word "unknown" is not some sort of language(s) that's from nowhere adding the fact that it was added by translations. SO THAT WORD "UNKNOWN" doesn't apply to ME as the preacher BUT to the listener. In this practical case, egun is UNKNOWN to the listeners.

7. So I started reading slowly, inserting my practical languages and at the same time questioning the texts of Apostle Paul. So here we go: I re read the whole of 1 Corinthians 14 with that concept and it makes much clearer.

PART 2.

I did the SAME thing in the steps above BUT IN THIS CASE PART 2, Instead of using my Egun language, I decided to use the commonly taught and believed speaking in tongues taught us in churches in a practical manner but alas, I was caught in several verses of 1 Corinthians 14. How? So in this scenario my language is NOT egun but "unknown" as in UNKNOWN to me and the listeners....like, this below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne5ZyWsP7Lk

Again I STOPPED and asked myself....why will I even speak in such WHEN EVEN ME NOR THE LISTENER DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THIS SO CALLED "unknown"? But I continued anyway to see my final outcome....

So, I used this option to practically interpret 1 Corinthians 14 to the end, i came to conclusions this OPTION 2 DOES NOT LINE UP WITH MANY VERSES OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14, verses such as.....verses 2 to 6, 13 - 14, 23 - 36.

You can practically do this PART 2 applying those verses and see how those verse starring at you in the face with the outcome....or better still, practically apply PART 1 using your language of choice to interpret the whole 1 Corinthians 14.

I hope we go back to RE-learn or unlearn somethings taught to us in the church while we're new born babes in the Lord.

Acehart:
I faired better than Elijah.

MuttleyLaff:
"Ọlọrun, ju ẹda lọ" loosely translated, means "God, owner of heavens, is bigger than men"

MuttleyLaff:
"¹Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
⁷To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the benefit of all.
⁸For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
⁹To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
¹⁰To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues:
¹¹It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts.
He alone decides which gift each person should have."
- 1 Corinthians 12:1 and 7-11

What part out of the 9 manifestations of the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit is the "speak of the JW language/tongue"?

MuttleyLaff:



[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]
I think my time's now done here.
Praise God. Alleluia.

Acehart:


Would you like me to ask the question you know I would ask?

Maximus69:
Paul in his letter said

"ALL THESE GIFTS WILL NO MORE BE IN USE, WHEN CHRISTIANITY BECOMES FULLY MATURED" 1 Corinthians 13:8-11

Today Jehovah's Witnesses (True Christians) don't speak in strange tongues, prophesy new things or know secret thing our fellow Christian brothers don't know!

What Jesus said will remain as mark of true Christianity during the endtime is LOVE! John 13:34-35 compare to 1 Corinthians 13:13

God bless you!

Goshen360:
Why is you laughing at me naw? .

Goshen360:
E be like say you don become ghost appearing to me in my dream abi na me dey dream you, I no even understand. But anyway, you're literally pulling my ears in the dream saying to me, "Goshen360, are you also without understanding"?

Goshen360:
Anyway, I think we have different gift in teaching....some people need "one step at a time" method of teaching because different understanding of audience while some can handle much at a time.

You, my brother is a good teacher just as I am and we're both students of the word

Goshen360:
However, try this most times in your teaching approach: "Ẹ gbiyanju, kẹ ma ti ibi pẹlẹbẹ fi mu ọlẹ jẹ .... "

Goshen360:


PART 2.

So, I used this option to practically interpret 1 Corinthians 14 to the end, i came to conclusions this OPTION 2 DOES NOT LINE UP WITH MANY VERSES OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14, verses such as.....verses 2 to 6, 13 - 14, 23 - 36.

MuttleyLaff:
We know what Apostle Paul said and how he meant, with 1 Corinthians 13:8-11, so don't worry about that.

No one, ever on this thread has suggested, that, Jehovah's Witnesses (True Christians) speak in strange tongues, prophesy new things or know secret things fellow Christian brothers don't know. Nobody is disputing that Jesus said, what will remain as mark of true Christianity during the endtime is LOVE, so please spare us the proof-texting with John 13:34-35 and the sign-posting to go compare John 13:34-35 with 1 Corinthians 13:13

The simple easy, direct and straightforward question that was left answered by you, is, under which of the 9 manifestations of the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit does "speak of the JW language/tongue" fall?

Are you unable to sincerely, truthfully and honestly with love, answer that ni?

Maximus69:
I have answered you my guy, it's obvious you're expecting a response that will sooth the idea of false religions claiming Christians around you today!

Maximus69:
So calmly go through my response again to know what true Christians are supposed to be doing now Sir!

Maximus69:
Christianity has passed that childish stage! 1 Corinthians 13:8-11

MuttleyLaff:
No, you haven't sincerely, truthfully and honestly with love, answered the question

The question you were asked had replies that had nothing to to with answers about what true Christians are supposed to be doing now Sir!

Just to remind you, that the question, was, out of the 9 manifestations of the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit, under which of them nine does "speak of the JW language/tongue" fall?

It seems to me you're uncomfortable to sincerely, truthfully and honestly with love, answer that question. This is the reason you are taking strong evasive actions and/or tactics to avoid committing yourself to answering directly.

Finallydead:

2.) The first thing we should ask is what language did angels speak before the creation of humans. Certainly not human language which came to be in this recent Adamic age. Does this mean we can't hear them in our own language? No. But it does mean after coming down to our level to communicate, they would return to their standard language in heaven in keeping with their nativity.

how us your whole theology on tongues and then maybe we will agree with you. We're not going to all agree with you before you can do this. Having established that 1Cor14 is non-human language, kindly show us what you wanna do with 1Cor13:1, since I've already shown that Paul listed ONLY gifts from 1Cor12 in 1Cor13:1-3 without a single hyperbole, like Mutt would believe.

Maximus69:


The GIFTS of any tree is no more significant once the FRUITS are produced! Matthew 7:16-18

Jehovah's Witnesses (true Christians) totally differ Sir! 2Corinthians 11:12-13

So don't expect to hear of your deception in our midst!

Maximus69:
Paul in his letter said

"ALL THESE GIFTS WILL NO MORE BE IN USE, WHEN CHRISTIANITY BECOMES FULLY MATURED" 1Corinthians 13:8-11

Today Jehovah's Witnesses (True Christians) don't speak in strange tongues, prophesy new things or know secret thing our fellow Christian brothers don't know!

What Jesus said will remain as mark of true Christianity during the endtime is LOVE! John 13:34-35 compare to 1 Corinthians 13:13

God bless you!

hoopernikao:
Do JW believe in Prophecies or not?
Paul listed it as part of the 1 Cor 13 you quoted. Just thinking

hoopernikao:


Good evening.

I will appreciate if you point specifically to verse or Paul's word, explanation that contradicts tongues as not intelligible to all men. Let it be specific so that i can know what to explain.

Maximus69:
The GIFTS of any tree is no more significant once the FRUITS are produced! Matthew 7:16-18

Maximus69:
Jehovah's Witnesses (true Christians) totally differ Sir! 2 Corinthians 11:12-13

Maximus69:
So don't expect to hear of your deception in our midst!