Plead:
I see phrases like “women are naturally wired to be nurturers” and “men are naturally wired to be providers” as stupid and laughable.
Women are receivers not because of nature but because of the society. The society wired men to be providers and not nature,just like some folks are Muslims because of the kind of societies they grew up,while some are Christians,Buddhists or irreligious as a result of the kind of society or environment they grew up.

For centuries,most if not all societies have wired men to believe cooking is meant for the female folks. Yeah.

Someday,people will begin to say men are naturally wired not to cook . BULLSHÎT.


Whatever you are today ,it is because of the society/environment you find yourself in or the people around you and not because of nature.

Society shapes our way of life and behavior.

Mariangeles:


Only an effeminate would agree with your assertions.

Acidosis:
Why do you think women care/love babies more? Society?

I think the nature vs. society argument is needless since both play huge roles.

You also have to realize that the decision to assign certain roles by some societies is based on their understanding of these innate or natural differences.

Looking at our anatomical and biological configurations, who should work more outside the home? The woman? Same woman with less physical strength? Same woman with the womb needed to raise kids? No society will send a pregnant woman to the war front, civilised or uncivilised.

These are some of the factors that led societies into assigning roles.

Acidosis:
Why do you think women care/love babies more? Society?

I think the nature vs. society argument is needless since both play huge roles.

You also have to realize that the decision to assign certain roles by some societies is based on their understanding of these innate or natural differences.

Looking at our anatomical and biological configurations, who should work more outside the home? The woman? Same woman with less physical strength? Same woman with the womb needed to raise kids? No society will send a pregnant woman to the war front, civilised or uncivilised.

These are some of the factors that led societies into assigning roles.

bukatyne:
Nature vs. Nurture.

While I believe that some roles are based nurture/societal expectations e.g. basic housekeeping, there are some roles that are nature and the concerned party naturally thinks about it.

1. For females: Warmth. There is this warmth a woman of the house aka wife brings. It is often said a man can buy a house, a woman makes it into a home (biko, I am not saying a woman can't buy a house; no drama ). It is the wife that would think of beautification, activities and processes to make that house a home. It is mummy that is thinking of picking beans in the freezer so it is easier to cook; stock up on stuffs at home; baking pastries so the home as a warm feeling, thinking up warm activities, decor, making sure everyone's clothes are well coordinated etc. etc. etc.

2. For males; Security/provision: The man of the house is thinking security; these locks are bla bla, the car has issues, the Gen has a funny sound, one million boys are around so we watch, the plug of the fridge shocks let me check, the roof is leaking, plumber needs to fix the faucet, encouragement etc. etc. etc.

I guess I am still back to nurturers and providers without the traditional implied meaning of it.

Plead:

If you grew up in a society where gender roles aren’t practiced the possibility that you would believe or know of gender roles except you leave that society to another society where such roles are practiced is less than 10/100. In your home, if you always witness both your parents providing funds and doing house chores etc your ideals/beliefs or personality will be shaped around those behaviors exhibited by your parents and other folks in your environment.

In the primitive prehistoric society, I believe men did those things of the environment they grew up. Somebody/a group of people started such practices and it evolved to become a culture.

Just like when we say a particular tradition doesn’t make sense in this age or century and other folks counter us by saying those traditions have been there before we were born and removing them will have so so implications (they forget that these practices were created by people/men like them and as time went on the practices evolved into general culture).

I believe in what is called natural laws to some extent. It is natural for an individual to long for food.
Irrespective of the kind of society you were raised your instincts will naturally make you want food.

Pregnancy/Labour is also a natural something that didn’t come about because of societal practices.

Self defense is a natural something. If you’re being attacked you’ll naturally have the instinct to defend yourself.

Cc
Acidosis

Acidosis:


The truth is that such a society does not exist. The society is formed by both genders and both naturally tend to take on what aligns with their instincts and biological configurations. While there are exceptions, most societies assign the hardest roles to the man.




Nice. Those are good points. Perhaps, the natural something like pregnancy, menstruation, softness, strength is why societies assign those gender roles?

The example of food is also good. It is natural to get hungry, but the society we live defines the food we eat.

Plead:


The bolded are caused by society. Societal wiring.

bukatyne:


Nope.

It is innate.

That was why I specified between general house keeping like dishes, washing clothes, sweeping, cleaning etc. and more innate attributes.

mrblessed:
It is true that society assigns roles to be played by both genders, however, the society was/is, most times, guided by nature in assigning these tasks. Another pointers to observe are human anatomy and physiology to appreciate the twin role played by nature and society. No matter how loud and convincing your viewpoint might be, there are roles that naturally suit man and women. This is manifestly self-evident and does not require a commentary. The partnership between nature and society in the business of role assignment remains a partnership that elevates man and woman and continues to ensure that mankind does not become extinct.

Therefore, it is inappropriate to view or claim that gender roles are solely and independently distributed by the society. In almost all societies of the world, men are the primary providers. Even in the western world where women have almost edged out men in the performance of this function, the impact is there for everyone to see. Again, economic relationships can disrupt, or distort what we knew and understood as settled certainties of life. For example, in Mali today, there are numerous ethnic groups where women are the main providers and men play the role of housekeepers. These people have lived in this form for hundreds of thousands of years, maintaining this lifestyle and transmitting it to generations

Hathor5:
Nice thread OP. I hope you will ensure people keep it clean.

The question of nature vs. nurture has been subject to scientific scrutiny and much has been written on the topic by anthropologists, biologists, psychologists, historians, and sociologists. It is difficult to answer and there is a lot of disagreement surrounding the topic. Nairalanders are most likely to respond to it ideologically, not objectively, and will disagree too. I think that the minimum that we can agree on, going by the answers so far, is that every human being is a product of his biological making and environment and that gender roles are an interplay of the two. As a result people in primitive societies used to assign the role of the hunter to men who are on average stronger physically but there are still societies habituating less civilized places where women are assigned the role of the provider and men do what is in most societies considered atypical of men. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Today men do not need to hunt. We have grocery stores. In the modern world, as we have become more dependent on specialization and have more complex economies, there is a wider range of jobs that can be performed by both, men and women. Most jobs do not rely on physical strength anymore and there is no physical trait that stands in the way of chores and cooking so the lines have become more blurry.

Hathor5:
Nice thread OP. I hope you will ensure people keep it clean.

The question of nature vs. nurture has been subject to scientific scrutiny and much has been written on the topic by anthropologists, biologists, psychologists, historians, and sociologists. It is difficult to answer and there is a lot of disagreement surrounding the topic. Nairalanders are most likely to respond to it ideologically, not objectively, and will disagree too. I think that the minimum that we can agree on, going by the answers so far, is that every human being is a product of his biological making and environment and that gender roles are an interplay of the two. As a result people in primitive societies used to assign the role of the hunter to men who are on average stronger physically but there are still societies habituating less civilized places where women are assigned the role of the provider and men do what is in most societies considered atypical of men. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Today men do not need to hunt. We have grocery stores. In the modern world, as we have become more dependent on specialization and have more complex economies, there is a wider range of jobs that can be performed by both, men and women. Most jobs do not rely on physical strength anymore and there is no physical trait that stands in the way of chores and cooking so the lines have become more blurry.

This is a list of jobs that are at least 80% dominated by males despite developments in technology and robotics:

1. Vehicle technicians, mechanics and electricians - Men 99.19%
2. Carpenters and joiners - Men 99.08%
3. Welding trades - Men 98.54%
4. Electricians and electrical fitters - Men 98.26%
5. Plumbers and heating and ventilating engineers - Men 98.1%
6. Metal working production and maintenance fitters - Men 98.09%
7. Mobile machine drivers and operatives - Men 97.93%
8. Large goods vehicle drivers - Men 97.61%
9. Fork-lift truck drivers - Men 97.44%
10. Elementary construction occupations - 97.11%
11. Glaziers, window fabricators and fitters - 96.68%
12. Electrical and electronics technicians - 96.37%
13. Construction and building trades - 96.27%
14. Electrical and electronic trades - 96.12%
15. Design and development engineers - 95.86%
16. Taxi and cab drivers and chauffeurs - 95.71%
17. Train and tram drivers - 95.69%
18. Paper and wood machine operatives - 95.45%
19. Painters and decorators - 95.27%
20. Telecommunications engineers - 95.21%
21. Skilled metal, electrical and electronic trades - 95.02%
22. Electrical engineers - 94.6%
23. Metal machining setters and setter-operators - 93.95%
24. Mechanical engineers - 93.78%
25. Electronics engineers - 93.29%
26. Bus and coach drivers - 93.23%
27. IT engineers - 93.2%
28. Van drivers - 93.08%
29. Precision instrument makers and repairers - 93.07%
30. Production managers and directors in mining and energy - 92.94%
31. Fire service officers (watch manager and below) - 92.89%
32. Rail transport operatives - 92.88%
33. Production and process engineers - 92.8%
34. Refuse and salvage occupations - 92.47%
35. Hospital porters - 92.36%
36. NCOs and other ranks - 92.07%
37. Construction operatives - 91.53%
38. Aircraft pilots and flight engineers - 91.41%
39. Ship and hovercraft officers - 91.3%
40. Metal working machine operatives - 91.08%
41. Butchers - 90.98%
42. Window cleaners - 90.94%
43. Air transport operatives - 90.87%
44. Sports players - 90.7%
45. Gardeners and landscape gardeners - 90.45%
46. Civil engineers - 90.25%
47. Groundsmen and greenkeepers - 90.15%
48. Other drivers and transport operatives - 89.81%
49. Engineering professionals - 89.67%
50. Quantity surveyors - 89.56%
51. Plastics process operatives - 89.06%
52. Plant and machine operatives - 88.98%
53. Information technology and telecommunications directors - 88.91%
54. Production managers and directors in construction - 88.85%

crackland:

Hunting has evolved from using spears to catch game for food. It now means working jobs to provide.

[I]Until women become and are very comfortable being long-term sole providers (or more of the financial provider) while they let their husbands stay at home to be nanny, cook, and general housekeepers (or be less financially capable), then nothing has really changed in the modern world compared to primitive societies when it comes down to the point.[/I]

You also claimed that most jobs do not rely on physical strength and as such a wide range of jobs these days can be done equally by both sexes. Well, this is a far-cry from reality because just as hunting evolved from using spears, physical strength also evolved into mental strength (rigor) accompanied by physical stamina to withstand stress and physical risk-factors.




The full list goes all the way to over 300 and it doesn't get equal gender representation until about 190, more than halfway through.

Also put it into consideration that the percentages above will definitely be higher in a country like Nigeria where women are more into jobs which allow them to sit pretty in an office or for those who are business inclined - they'd rather go into baking, tailoring, event planning, cooking, make-up, etc...
Anything which doesn't involve the exertion of mental rigors.

Plead:

Do females naturally or automatically have instincts to cook ? Probably no. It is because of the kind of grooming they received while growing up or what they saw their mother doing that they later take cooking as hobby.
Same applies for sweeping,watching and keeping dishes.
As for the beautification aspect,I wouldn’t say it depends on society but rather the individual.
There are many men who are better at home beautification than women.

crackland:

Hunting has evolved from using spears to catch game for food. It now means working jobs to provide.

Until women become and are very comfortable being long-term sole providers (or more of the financial provider) while they let their husbands stay at home to be nanny, cook, and general housekeepers (or be less financially capable), then nothing has really changed in the modern world compared to primitive societies when it comes down to the point.

You also claimed that most jobs do not rely on physical strength and as such a wide range of jobs these days can be done equally by both sexes. Well, this is a far-cry from reality because just as hunting evolved from using spears, physical strength also evolved into mental strength (rigor) accompanied by physical stamina to withstand stress and physical risk-factors.

The full list goes all the way to over 300 and it doesn't get equal gender representation until about 190, more than halfway through.

Also put it into consideration that the percentages above will definitely be higher in a country like Nigeria where women are more into jobs which allow them to sit pretty in an office or for those who are business inclined - they'd rather go into baking, tailoring, event planning, cooking, make-up, etc...
Anything which doesn't involve the exertion of mental rigors.

bukatyne:


You obviously did not read the post you quoted.

Boiling rice and beans or making eba to Afang soup in the freezer is different from gathering the whole family on Saturday and trying the banana bread recipe you saw on youtube.

Hathor5:
Nice thread OP. I hope you will ensure people keep it clean.

The question of nature vs. nurture has been subject to scientific scrutiny and much has been written on the topic by anthropologists, biologists, psychologists, historians, and sociologists. It is difficult to answer and there is a lot of disagreement surrounding the topic. Nairalanders are most likely to respond to it ideologically, not objectively, and will disagree too. I think that the minimum that we can agree on, going by the answers so far, is that every human being is a product of his biological making and environment and that gender roles are an interplay of the two. As a result people in primitive societies used to assign the role of the hunter to men who are on average stronger physically but there are still societies habituating less civilized places where women are assigned the role of the provider and men do what is in most societies considered atypical of men. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Today men do not need to hunt. We have grocery stores. In the modern world, as we have become more dependent on specialization and have more complex economies, there is a wider range of jobs that can be performed by both, men and women. Most jobs do not rely on physical strength anymore and there is no physical trait that stands in the way of chores and cooking so the lines have become more blurry.

cococandy:
Very well said

Plead:

Say something.

cococandy:
no energy for long posts