Joshthefirst:

How do you acknowledge the meaninglessness of a speck of dust such as your life is and then go ahead and say that you, in your meaningless existence, can give your short and meaningless life some meaning? You even go ahead and give a meaningless analogy. This is quite senseless. But more to come...

Joshthefirst:

Jesus didn’t die for nothing, his torment has won him followers in the billions since his cross, there are currently about 500,000 messianic Jews with more to come, and you lie, Christianity is actually increasing in the world today. But this is a red herring, a bird
Could it be that faced with the unfortunate meaningless of your life and the fact that you can actually and logically do nothing to add any meaning to it, you try to distract the question and attack my religion? Is this what atheism and humanism is? A purported meaningless existence, the best its representatives can offer being to attack questioners who ask them the honest question of their foolish position? I wonder.

Joshthefirst:

And this is the sum total of the foolishness of atheism folks:

A self proclaimed meaningless entity goes on to foolishly proclaim that he, in his meaningless existence, can infuse his meaningless life with meaning. From where please

And here is more, If this meaningless entity screams and believes that all life is meaningless, then what is the point of holding on to “logic” and “rationality” and “science”? And seemingly upholding them against religion? What is the point of seeking to explain anything of your meaningless views? Or struggling to share this meaningless and unfortunate way of life to others? If one truly believes we are all in the same meaningless blue mass?

Monveronique:



If you don't believe in an afterlife, can you explain the mechanism of dreaming? You sure had a few haven't you?

odinson1:

If your god exists and your religion is true, does this give you an obligation to help others who do not share your beliefs?
If you saw a child floundering in a shallow pond, you would surely feel obliged to make an effort to save its life but how much greater is your moral obligation if you see a multitude of people headed to an eternity of unimaginable agony? Could anything possibly be more important than saving them?
So why don't all religious people dedicate their lives to saving those who worship fake gods or no gods at all? Why do most religious people shrug their shoulders and say people are entitled to their own beliefs? Are we really so selfish and wicked?
This is hard to understand. Perhaps it is because you feel it is too hard to convince others that their beliefs are wrong and yours are right. But if your beliefs are true and you know they are true, it should be possible to pass that knowledge to others. After all, if you cannot do that, how can you be sure your beliefs ARE true?
I don't know why religious people are so selfish. Perhaps they will tell us. But I do have my suspicions. I suspect they don't do this because they are not really sure their own beliefs are true--they just find them agreeable and hope they are true. They have faith.
And how can you expect to convince others, if all you have is faith?

Monveronique:



Not really. I've seen a few flip because of that. I was thinking you were in that company.

So since that's being eliminated? How did you become an atheist?

odinson1:

what I'm saying is that i refuse to believe in what no one has ever proven to exist.

whitelotus:



I became an atheist after reading about slavery in the bible. It chilled me to the bone. Then, as time went on, I started seeing more and more contradicitions and then, I went on to find evidence for God............


long story short, your bible does not hold up to scrutiny

whitelotus:



I became an atheist after reading about slavery in the bible. It chilled me to the bone. Then, as time went on, I started seeing more and more contradicitions and then, I went on to find evidence for God............


long story short, your bible does not hold up to scrutiny

Monveronique:



Are you implying that too much water is waste? Do you know the human body is 70% water? Of course not or are you implying you're a waste too?

lekbel09:
My brother I have been on this forum for a numer of years now and I am done trying to make people like you see the light.

If your reply is to make me start typing espistles this night then you've gotten the wrongest person.���

Believe waht you want but like it or not there is a God that created heaven and Earth and his name is Jehovah.




With this few points of mine I draw the curtain on our discussion


You didn't make any point. And wrongest is just laughable .
You are in no light. You're in a cult!
Peace

whitelotus:



95% of the earth's water is salt water. You drink that water and you die.

whitelotus:



My brain is working when I am dreaming.

My brain wont work when I am dead.

A clear difference

incogni2o:


0. You started the thread right, but the passion to comprehensively explain isnt there, you should be ready not just to give responses, but be comprehensive also.

1. With Great Power comes great responsibilities, Yes . Responsibilities to care about every single soul he created, including you. Responsibility enough to make a way of salvation for mankind. Great characteristics, well i clearly dont get what you mean by that.

2. So you are saying people arent slaughtered and thier body dismembered?

4. See this screenshot below and confirm to me you are still ignorant of a whole lot of simple things but choose to blindly lead others.

Go and make further research before coming here to lead others astray.

Monveronique:




What do you think is the function of the brain?



Have you heard of the headless chicken that survived for some days before dying? How do you think that's possible?

whitelotus:

As usual, you fail to understand and then, blame me for your lack of understanding. I gave a simple analogy to explain how in a wider sense, something can be meaningless but we humans can attach meaning and purpose to that thing.

You dismissed the analogy without any sensible objections. This is not fair.

Another analogy- A paradox of meaning/scale- a "heap of sand" is just sand clustered together. Now, at what point does that heap turn to a "sprinkling of sand" if we remove from the heap, grain by grain?

The paradox is to show how meanings of things change at different scales and that the line drawn between them is arbitrary (ergo meaningless)

This is just like how on the grand scale of things, life is meaningless and paradoxical. We are born to die. Every day we live is another day we get closer to death. Every day we live, we also die. Should the sun explode, the earth will be decimated and all our human inventions or logic will be for nothing- just gone.

However, individually, we can choose to make meaning of what has no meaning. Writing on a blank slate.

whitelotus:
Christianity (religion) is dying in all developed countries. America, UK, Europe, Singapore, Japan etc. Pick any top 10 countries and you will see that they are increasingly secular.

I also repeat that most Jews arent christians and most Jews do not believe in Jesus. That is a fact. Jesus failed his own people. His death was meaningless. He came for the lost sheep of isreal. The sheep are still lost.

whitelotus:
I will point you to my first paragraph. Address the points and the analogy. Dont get into your soapbox and dramatise your disdain of my beliefs or lack thereof.

Monveronique:




Really? How come it doesn't kill the fishes and aqualife if I'm to follow you to your small detracted tunnel

Monveronique:



What scrutiny are we talking about. And btw slavery was eastern tradition at the time. Even before the advent of Europeans in Africa, slavery was widely practiced but note that God gave the Israelites a timeline for slavery after which they were to let the slave go.

whitelotus:

I became an atheist after reading about slavery in the bible. It chilled me to the bone. Then, as time went on, I started seeing more and more contradicitions and then, I went on to find evidence for God............
long story short, your bible does not hold up to scrutiny

Joshthefirst:
Abi is that not what you believe. See, you cannot eat your cake and have it. You cannot claim life is meaningless and meaningful at the same time

Maximus69:


I became a Christian after my first encounter with the word "Christian Soldiers"!
As a Muslim and Soldier carrying weapons against my fellowman wasn't pleasurable to me but i have to do it anyway because i believed in defending my country and people. So the word "Christian Soldiers" sounds preposterous because i've read the Bible several times and focusing on the Bible's main Character Jesus, there is nowhere this guy used weapons or encouraged using it, so i started asking myself "how can one be a Christian and at the same time fighting for Jesus who never engaged in physical battle?"

But i soon understood fully the meaning when i met Jehovah's Witnesses!

The aim of any army is to make the opposing side surrender their weapons NOT TO KILL THEM!

So the best army the world never had is that which will make their enemies surrender without the use of force or weapons or records of casualties (numbers of dead oppositions) to scare them!

Well Jehovah's Witnesses performed excellently in this regard. Their strategy is what the army calls PSYCHOLOGICAL APPROACH! They will not force their enemies rather they will compel them to surrender all harmful weapons willingly and wholeheartedly, not only that but each disarmed soldier of the opposing side will become part of them to start fighting on WITHOUT THE USE OF FORCE, WEAPONS NOR RECORDS OF CASUALTIES!

There is no army in human history that had a great Commander in chief whose soldiers are not fighting to kill but making the opposing side surrendering peacefully, willingly and wholeheartedly like that!

That's why i believe what an ancient prophet wrote about Jesus of Nazareth saying :-

he will be called the Prince of Peace! Isaiah 9:6

whitelotus:



0. Where is your compassion and common sense? Do you really want me to be writing epistles? Even the bible says "a word is enough for the wise"

Proverbs 17:27; A wise man will be of few words: A fool may gain the reputation of being wise if he have but wit enough to hold his tongue

1. The simple story is that your God is illogical. How can an omnipotent God get jealous? Someone that knows what will happen before it happens?

2. I am saying that they are slaughtered but money does not just appear in a room after the sacrifice like how it is told in the movies.

4. Thanks for being dishonest- here is the main meaning of "evangelism" from the same dictionary;

whitelotus:



Go and sleep.

You are not fooling anyone. If you talk too much, I will report you to your elders in the kingdom hall or watchtower that you are fraternising with atheists

incogni2o:


Thats what you are best at.

making mokery of other people's beliefs and convictions without proper understanding.

whitelotus:



The paradox of meaning should have cleared this simple point for you. A thing can mean something else on a different scale. A boat can be a few metres short of being a yatch.


I am amused by your mockery, though. A sign of your unwillingness to learn

incogni2o:


0. being comprehensive doesn't mean writing epistles, or does it ?

you are twisting what prov says, totally off what you are saying, wisdom is found in being comprehensive, never in giving a short comprehensive response.

1. I already told you God is a personality similar to ours in the sense of making us in his image, you twisted your response away from that.


2. if they are killed, why is the killing increasing? your conclusions are without evidence or do you have any evidence to back up your claim. I am agnostic when it comes to that, find something logical to convince me blood money isn't real with the killings we are experiencing.

4. Funny you say I am being dishonest after exposing your ignorance, are you saying the screenshot I posted was wrong? or that I don't know an evangelist is also someone who preaches the gospel.

infact, gospel means good news which is where the other definition comes from.

I am not dishonest, just exposing your ignorance. Do you agree you are trying to make disciples now and lead people astray now or not?

whitelotus:



You are wrong. The guy went into full preaching mode and I reacted appropriately. Imagine having a discussion, only for someone to start hammering gibberish at you.

Monveronique:




Has anyone proven you will die? Why do you believe so?

incogni2o:


is meaning an absolute or relative term in this context ?

if relative, how do you find meaning in that relative sense.

if absolute too, how do you find meaning in an absolute sense of existence.

I believe in an absolute meaning though, my life should have an absolute meaning, if not, it's still meaningless in any relative way to try to explain.

incogni2o:


are you here to react or to reason?

whitelotus:



0. Move on. My comments are comprehensive enough. If you want epistles, join a writing club

1. God is not man, stop remixing your own bible. That the bibl

2. You are just repeating yourself on this issue. Human body parts do not turn to money. There is no magic there. Simple and short.

4. You went for the second meaning that is more colloquial. You omitted the original meaning- that was dishonest

whitelotus:


I'm here to reasonably react.

incogni2o:


which shows you are fake. Being logical and reasonable 'isn't reacting. Reacting means you are getting emotionally attached which is dangerous.

Muslims react to people cursing Moamd

whitelotus:



I would say the meaning is "fixed" instead of using "absolute". The meaning of words and things are fixed upon certain conditions. But once those conditions change, the meanings change.