Am a cs student and i only can write basic code on like 4 programming language i know know how to right front end well but that does not make me less of a csc student am kinda prefer other aspect. The programming gan they are not teaching us well

Why won't they say such when they know Computer science students are sudying outdated course with Lecturers who only knows Theory not practical. Imagne Computer science student still studying cobol in 21st century or Fortran. Now tell me will udemy or cousera teach people these outdated languages. NUC should review the curriculum to meet up with the current demand and also streamline the courses so that students can specialise and master a particular field.

stanliwise:
you are just speaking dust. I bet you didn’t study CSC from the way you speak. And what has CSC got to do with being an expert in a language. Infact most of my Lecturers are not close to how good I was in programming back in school but they were great computing Scientist than I was at then. CSC is beyond coding. CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data. It basically has not much to do with computer it self. Computer is a by-product of CSC and the language of communicating with such machine is also a product of CSC. So programming language is not anything close to CSC.

Now let me ask you a and I demand all honesty.
As a computer scientist, what can you do for a company?

Let's assume you didn't go to Bootcamp to learn coding or any additional skill

reminds me of my days in NTA. HND and B.Eng holders will be arguing on who and who is an engineer and who is not. B.Eng holders will always abuse and call them Technologists.

In the next 10 seconds, something will spoil. Engineers and Technologists will be speaking grammar. "LNB LNB LNB". They will go and call the road side mechanic that never completed secondary school to do the works of the so called engineers.

Tell me, who is interested in grammar?

No be the same CS graduates wey we all know ni?

Coder2Client:


All those who you have mentioned are computer scientists, I'm aware of that. Programming is a fractional part of computer science, yes, I'm pretty sure of that. But if I ask you to answer my question, would you be truthful to yourself by saying nothing but the absolute truth? Why did you study CSC? To become a good programmer or a computer scientist?
Remember, you cannot be a good programmer without the knowledge algorithm. And to become a good computer scientist you have to dedicate your life in the field just like those you've mentioned.

The professors are teaching students to be industry ready, which although you have your own part to play. And to be industry ready is considered being a good software engineer /developer which is considered to be the face of computer science. Even, most industries are not too much into CSC degree which yourself is aware of rather your problem solving skills which is embedded in DSA.

No need of arguing the dude is right, programing is a fraction of CS not everyone will major in it but to be become a en eludite scholar you must be endowed in CS general which data science is also a sub set

ARCHEMEDESME:

yea but it becomes annoying when someone who attends a 3 months bootcamp thinks they know it all

If someone can learn what took you 5 years in 3 months, why should u be angry about it. And why don't u think the person will be so excited about what he learned within a very short time.

Whether 5yrs or 3mnths, the bottom line is bn good at what u after doing.

Computer applications are more of a technical thing. If you're more of a person who is naturally endowed with technical things, you'll learn computer stuff beyond what u are taught in class.

specie103:
One of the main reason I don't like programing language especially the ones that deal with web....
I look into the future of web design then and I see that in few years time, everyone will be able to do that on their own irrespective of their course of study, not only web, Even Android app development and ios due to the various CMS tools available today.

I do write codes but I enjoy commands (Networking). even with networking, I can't still seems to completely run away from writing codes .

Anyone who doesn't study Csc and thinks he knows more the csc major is just fooling his/herself and publicly displaying his/her ignorance.

Csc major knows something about everything when it comes to computing, and also knows everything about something. But a self taught programmer is limited to that programing niche domain.

Please erase @bolded notion from your mind..
Some self taught programmer go as far back as learning what happen during compilation, what happen just before serial display... Some people have curious mind, so please don't underestimate the ability of self taught not just in CS related but every aspect of life. Some apply principle of reverse engineering during self taught. They will want to learn everything that has to do with that particular niche they are interested in. It will be foolish to challenge such people about their niche and everything that surround it.
Google and YouTube are more than any university degree, you can learn virtually everything you want.

People don't know providing solution to an existing problem is much more than degree certificate

People don't know providing solution to an existing problem is much more than degree certificate.

SegFault:

You are just generalising man. This thing you said is completely false and dumb. It depends on how much the individual loves learning, I have seen many computer science students that don't know anything.

My guy is a computer science student he ends up being a computer science teacher

I want to be a programer

Coder2Client:
CS major is just like Jack of all trades master of none. As a CS grad, I was just reading to pass my exams. Tell me, how do you expect CS major to be expert in Java, c++, pascal, vb, algorithm, python Fortran, cobol, networking etc and still claim to be productive when he/she has not successfully implemented any of these core languages in a production?

After my school, I had to start all over by myself. This time, it was Java and I can tell you that I am very proud of doing so. I learn so much by myself.


So, self taught programmers are goal oriented and not like the school conventional way of programming.

yes this is what I'm doing reading to just pass and doing extra myself at home or when free because this school based computing is very redundant

wwwtortoise:


Greetings Sir !

Please recommend a user-friendly online platform where I can learn Python for free.

I used codecademy but the free version is limited to only the intro and basics.

PS: I am presently doing my NYSC and eagerly want to learn programming.

Regards.

Pm me, have some materials I can share with you, PDF but you are good to start if you follow it.

Hello guys, please which site can I learn networking and system support for free. Mostly cisco networks and also Mobile app development

Microwhy:

Please erase @bolded notion from your mind..
Some self taught programmer go as far back as learning what happen during compilation, what happen just before serial display... Some people have curious mind, so please don't underestimate the ability of self taught not just in CS related but every aspect of life. Some apply principle of reverse engineering during self taught. They will want to learn everything that has to do with that particular niche they are interested in. It will be foolish to challenge such people about their niche and everything that surround it.
Google and YouTube are more than any university degree, you can learn virtually everything you want.

Check your dictionary for the definition of a niche

utepu:
Coding is just an aspect of CS. A cs graduate is more versatile as it goes beyond coding.

Hahahahaha, tell me how a cs graduate is more versatil

It not their fault, it's the Nigeria system. Imagine a CS graduate going to learn Tailoring... Abi is it the one that go and learn barber ni. Especially those polytechnic ND students. A self-taught person might not exaggerate because he must have know many CS graduate without a computer skill.

manuelreports:
Why won't they say such when they know Computer science students are sudying outdated course with Lecturers who only knows Theory not practical. Imagne Computer science student still studying cobol in 21st century or Fortran. Now tell me will udemy or cousera teach people these outdated languages. NUC should review the curriculum to meet up with the current demand and also streamline the courses so that students can specialise and master a particular field.

The same FORTRAN that was used to write one of the most popular machine learning library Scipy that is used on your so called modern day generation language Python.
The thing is that we like jumping on the next shiny thing forgetting the foundation that gave rise to those our "Knight in shining armour"
I overhead some programmers saying that Javascript and python are going to phase out C and C++. I couldn't help but laugh out loud!
You want to chase out the foundation, the core that gave rise to you?
Most of the libraries that Python uses are built with C.
Even the FORTRAN you so despise is even computationally faster than most of your modern languages.
I don't use Fortran, but i won't just overlook their usefulness and what they have contributed to the world of programming languages.

Big company like Google, ibm uses scripting languages like python and Ruby for making quick prototype but when a standard enterprise app is needed, they would go back to these core languages like FORTRAN(if the solution use more of numerical computing) C and the rest of our oldies.
Gosh even the Nodejs making wave was written in C++.

I try to keep an open mind to all programming language because you don't use them does not make them useless.

To the Mr Bible guy, i think you need to get a grip of your self.
You are just trying to discredit those self taught programmers by all means which to me is not sound.

Computer science make the complex algorithms with their vast knowledge of discrete mathematics. And all these algorithm can be implemented on any language of choice by these "Roadside" programmers in the web app or software.
Every body gets where they come in.

The thing is that in Nigeria we focus more on theory than the practical unlike western countries who would give you the theory break down and practical to go with it.
That is why many cs grad in Nigeria doesn't know how to code that much.
I am a cs undergraduate myself so i know what i am talking about.
The fault is partly form the CS professor, they over simply the Cs lane that an average Joe can use it, there making the young cs grads look redundant.
Make it simple but not too simple that i would lose my job - A lecture of mine said this.
Also the fault also is from the Nigerian ecosystem who outs so much importance on web apps as if it is the beginning and end of Computer Science.

You won't believe how much Google waste in getting maths and cs Professor of which all they do is making heavy research on how to improve google algorithm and make new solutions complex application.

illitrate:



I work in cyber defense professionally and deal with embedded systems privately. I love reversing other's hard work. Maybe I cant invent but
reversing is my divine gift.

Good to hear..
Reverse engineering is an invention in itself. All we have around is modifications, so if you can analyse how a particular system is being put together, it is very easy to modify and improve its output..
Cyber security is a good niche I became interested when i followed Edward Snowdon case but its too late for me to dive in.
Embedded system and cyber physical system is my thing but Nigeria is making it difficult to work privately.
Its hard to get almost everything you need without ordering from abroad. Getting a good PCB company to print out your sketch work is also something else.
Covid-19 is truly a eye opener.

Anonime1105:
You already said it,
CS degree += Programming

I guess the reason might not be far fetched from the fact that you can learn everything you learnt while studying for a CS degree outside a University, it might take more time but you can definitely learn everything outside a university settings.

So you don't necessarily need a CS degree to become a "Software Engineer"

Absolute bullshit

You can learn whatever outside the four walls of the classrooms but a CS degree is far beyond just writing codes that this self taught courses gives you. I can bet a lot of all these so called "Software engineers" don't even know what data structures are which is the basic building block for all programming languages. I still have to sometimes reference my 2nd year text books on primary keys in projects. Now imagine someone who never even glossed through it.

That things have been abstracted to the point that you can drag and drop doesn't make you more knowledgeable than someone who understands the inner workings of the system. I would take a CS graduate with a few years of experience programming than a so called " established self thought programmer". In the long run the difference is extremely clear. The western world made the mistake in the early 2000s trying to outsource software development work to Indians who self taught and didn't go to traditional schools. When the quality of work dropped and the turn around time in terms of what jobs were completed and the errors they had to fix after. No one told them before they started withdrawing such critical aspects of the Software dev cycle from their hands and looking at home made CS graduates.


The same issues happens in the GIS field with people who just learnt how to use QGIS on Udemy believing because they can draw maps they are better than someone who studied the basics of stastiscal analysis for years before laying hands on the tool itself. What most of these courses don't teach you is why are you doing the things you are doing. They only show you how. That's a big gap of knowledge that still needs to be covered for you to be fully certified as a knowledgeable person in your field which sadly is something most self taught won't dabble into to learn more about.

The question is would you give the Civil engineer who understands concrete and sand ratio, soil analysis the job of building an important bridge in your city or give the job to someone who learnt over YouTube that if you are building a bridge you just have to add 50% cement and 50% sand to the beam to make a bridge without considering that each environment has their own peculiarities?

specie103:


Check your dictionary for the definition of a niche

I now understand that you're a rigid learner..
I am using niche as a subset to your CS.
Beside, how do you prepare for an interview when shortlisted? Do you just go about reading your old notes or you go to your job specification and the company profile to know exactly what to brush-up and concentrate on. ...... " that is a niche" ........

It's all about self gloat and a way to fight off "imposter syndrome". If you don't praise yourself, no one will.

ARCHEMEDESME:
I've noticed a certain trend ; a lot of self taught developers seem to look down on a cs degree after learning just an aspect of computer science.

For example someone who decides to learn backend web development ( which is a subset of cs)by taking an udemy course thinks he has learnt more than a serious minded cs student . They go about saying stuff like :" I didn't study computer science but I can know more than a cs major" but they seem to forget that computer science goes beyond developing websites. To me it's a waste of time of time studying cs just because you want to be a web developer , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what boot camps are meant for .

But that doesn't change the fact that some CS majors know nothing , I've come across some CS majors that can't code but that doesn't make a cs degree worthless.
But do you think such people are right ?

Only lucky self-taught programmer/dev can boast of that, entry/intermediate can't boast over CS degree because he never know which field he/she is going. Pro dev can boast, thou I also buy the mindset of studying CS is a waste of time because I can study a lot with apps, code camps, tweets, code war, free PDFs, YouTube videos even while in my room.

bumi10:
As someone graduated in CS department, is stu.pid for a web developer to equate him or her self to a computer science graduate.

Why they do that is because in the field of IT, people can care less on your degree but what you can do. And most computer science jobs you can easily startup and start doing as entrepreneur.

Nonetheless, there are also some industries within computer science that you require adequate degree to start.

Look at it this way, becoming a lawyer doesn't mean you can practice in all aspect of law. You need specialty again to practice in different law departments.

But the good thing about law is, even though you can learn it by reading law books and not go to school properly, you can't practice without a law degree.

So every dick and Harry can go an learn coding or even hardware and equate themselves to real vs graduates because they don't need degree to practice. I wish it was like law, that no matter where u learn, you can't practice without a degree or being called to bar. Law really set a huge standard.

I think IT industry is toeing that part little by little. Big industries now, you must have ITIL or CompTia A, or MSCS or some other certs before they can even consider you in any IT job. Is a good start.

Why is it a good start? Law is different from IT. What you know in law consist more of theoretical knowledge, and that is what University is all about most times, but in software development, it is different. You don't need a computer science degree especially if you are from a quantitative background, you can learn whatever they have learnt with your innate problem solving skills. These are usually data structures and algorithms, which you learn better by the hands on approach.

stanliwise:
you are just speaking dust. I bet you didn’t study CSC from the way you speak. And what has CSC got to do with being an expert in a language. Infact most of my Lecturers are not close to how good I was in programming back in school but they were great computing Scientist than I was at then. CSC is beyond coding. CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data. It basically has not much to do with computer it self. Computer is a by-product of CSC and the language of communicating with such machine is also a product of CSC. So programming language is not anything close to CSC.

So what do you think brought about the course, cs? CS is mainly software engineering. Anyone studying to become a computer scientist 98% more likely doing it because of coding.

CSC is all about computing data and creating algorithms, storing data, transfering data. It basically has not much to do with computer itself.

But where will you do all of this if not on a computer.

The young man you quoted hit the nail right on the head. School curriculums are bloated with all manner of stuffs you don't need...hence the reason he said "jack of all trade master of none."

A self taught programmer if he/she is the serious type will learn far more than a student who has spent 4yrs in the university pursuing a cs degree. In many ways the self taught is more focal on the things that are strictly cs related. Cs and software engineering are like butter and bread. You can't really mention one without the other. So, if your cs lecturer has no clue about coding and concerns himself with things theory, bro run from such a school. More so, I see what inspired your reasoning.

Today the buzz word is data science. Can you even think about being a data scientist without even knowing how to code? Data analysis is more than just excel spreadsheet or databases? In the short run you will need to query these data, now how do you suppose you'll do that?

Some few questions for you though:
How will your lecturer test his algorithm?
How will you compute data without the need of a computational device?
Where do you want to store your data, in your pocket?

Microwhy:

I now understand that you're a rigid learner..
I am using niche as a subset to your CS.
Beside, how do you prepare for an interview when shortlisted? Do you just go about reading your old notes or you go to your job specification and the company profile to know exactly what to brush-up and concentrate on. ...... " that is a niche" ........

Then you don't seems to understand my comment.

Ire ooo

wwwtortoise:


Greetings Sir !

Please recommend a user-friendly online platform where I can learn Python for free.

I used codecademy but the free version is limited to only the intro and basics.

PS: I am presently doing my NYSC and eagerly want to learn programming.

Regards.

Don’t use books or courses that teach u just basics such as computing arithmetic operation using python etc. they are a waste of time and you might get bored quickly or have a false confidence in your abilities.

I Been there also, better to start learning with a hands-on approach where u solve actual problems while learning.

Use this website to learn the basics: tutorialspoint.com

As for real python coding, use : ‘automate the boring stuff’ - just google it.

And remember, once u start, you don’t stop(you learn new things always), coding is for life not only a temporary means of putting food on your table.

I read chem Engineering.
I learnt perl, Java and HTML from the net.
To understand the above,I had to learn how compilation works by knowing assembly.I learnt how cpu works,I had to learn binary in relation to how computers add 0s and 1s.I learnt text processing in relation to ASCII and unicode.I learnt computer architecture in relation to processors,64/32bits,RAM, memory,cpu,gpu etc.Learnt how cpu processes and parses data in relation to text, images, videos etc.How 8 bits,16 bits and 32bits data works and it's relation to TRANSISTOR.The list is endless.
I guess,it was easy for me from my science background.

donproject:


Self-taught programmers are the best, no one forced them to do anything, enthusiasm and passion alone drive them. They chose the path not primarily because they want any financial gain or any certificate, they only fell in love with something abstract at the beginning, they stayed on it and they later found out it is a rewarding and promising path.

Don't you think you're generalizing . Are you saying that all CS students are not passionate and enthusiastic about computer science

onegig:


Absolute bullshit

You can learn whatever outside the four walls of the classrooms but a CS degree is far beyond just writing codes that this self taught courses gives you. I can bet a lot of all these so called "Software engineers" don't even know what data structures are which is the basic building block for all programming languages. I still have to sometimes reference my 2nd year text books on primary keys in projects. Now imagine someone who never even glossed through it.

That things have been abstracted to the point that you can drag and drop doesn't make you more knowledgeable than someone who understands the inner workings of the system. I would take a CS graduate with a few years of experience programming than a so called " established self thought programmer". In the long run the difference is extremely clear. The western world made the mistake in the early 2000s trying to outsource software development work to Indians who self taught and didn't go to traditional schools. When the quality of work dropped and the turn around time in terms of what jobs were completed and the errors they had to fix after. No one told them before they started withdrawing such critical aspects of the Software dev cycle from their hands and looking at home made CS graduates.


The same issues happens in the GIS field with people who just learnt how to use QGIS on Udemy believing because they can draw maps they are better than someone who studied the basics of stastiscal analysis for years before laying hands on the tool itself. What most of these courses don't teach you is why are you doing the things you are doing. They only show you how. That's a big gap of knowledge that still needs to be covered for you to be fully certified as a knowledgeable person in your field which sadly is something most self taught won't dabble into to learn more about.

The question is would you give the Civil engineer who understands concrete and sand ratio, soil analysis the job of building an important bridge in your city or give the job to someone who learnt over YouTube that if you are building a bridge you just have to add 50% cement and 50% sand to the beam to make a bridge without considering that each environment has their own peculiarities?

You don't necessarily need to go to the University to learn all these things. Anyone can learn data structures and algorithms from books and the internet, the more you code and the more you build projects, the more you learn the things you need to build those projects.
You don't necessarily need a computer science degree. Computer science studies in universities to me is almost no different to maths and statistics majors, which you can learn practically on a good data science bootcamp or consistently from YouTube and Udemy.

golddare:



I think you should also look at why the CS major student are not making "waves" so that the road side guys can feel inferior or close their mouth.

Answer is "jack of all trade master of none" . You will observe that you were taught every bit of everything during undergraduate, you major in one aspect during postgraduate and so on. However, the road side guy had major in that tiny aspect for the 6-7years you have spent trying to know everything. You will agree with me you cant beat him or her in that tiny field and the only way to beat them is take them round all your courses but who cares.
I did MSSC 2006 at NIIT and was shocked the guru asked us to go and meet those road side guys if we actually want to be very good. This is the same reason a Prof in Mech Engine cannot stand the a good road side mechanic. It's not pride, they are good and it's the law of specialization but they dont have the right to disparage the CS major students and I will encourage any CS students to start going to the road side guys right from 100L to begin their journey into specialization, dont wait till PhD, in the world of CS school can be overrated.

I hope you know mechanical engineering is not all about cars , cars are designed by mostly top notch engineers who specialize in that field . The mechanic depends on the engineer