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What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate - Politics - Nairaland

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What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by OruExpress: 9:50pm On Jul 10, 2020
A lot of Nigerians have gotten into watching white supremacist US and American video about capitalism and socialism and repeating things they heard. Only because they're not from the culture presenting the information, and have limited exposure to this information to begin with, they don't know they're repeating white supremacist anti-black propaganda. Especially because white people don't say what they mean upfront and many Nigerians can't fathom a white person being bad in any way due to limited exposure.

It would be the same as me being foreign and asking someone for directions in Lagos and they say Yaba Left, then I start looking for a street called Yaba so I can take a left because I don't understand the cultural context of the insult.


So, all of the capitalists on here, I want to explain Socialism through debate. Why are you a capitalist and what is wrong with socialist?
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by CanadaOrBust: 9:51pm On Jul 10, 2020
Nothing.
Just that people are dying to enter capitalist countries while Social countries have to use coercion to keep their people from leaving! cheesy

13 Likes

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by ajailer(m): 10:04pm On Jul 10, 2020
well no one system is perfect and as human we must always evolve... can you please enlighten more on the two..
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by longetivity(m): 11:43pm On Jul 10, 2020
please how can i use #100 to win ten million
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by plessis: 11:53pm On Jul 10, 2020
Can be easily hijacked by a dictator.

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by truthfulparrot(m): 11:55pm On Jul 10, 2020
CanadaOrBust:
Nothing.
Just that people are dying to enter capitalist countries while Social countries have to use coercion to keep their people from leaving! cheesy
epic reply
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by BabaRamota1980: 12:00am On Jul 11, 2020
America has a hybrid system. Capitalism for those that want to own others, socialism for those that will be owned.

2 Likes

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by OruExpress: 3:10am On Jul 11, 2020
CanadaOrBust:
Nothing.
Just that people are dying to enter capitalist countries while Social countries have to use coercion to keep their people from leaving! cheesy

Capitalist countries like...?

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by OruExpress: 3:12am On Jul 11, 2020
plessis:
Can be easily hijacked by a dictator.

In a country where we complain so much about corruption, and 'godfathers', I think money bags can't hijack capitalism and are far harder to dislodge than a dictator? We have gotten rid of our dictators, but oligarchs are stronger than ever.
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by CanadaOrBust: 4:15am On Jul 11, 2020
truthfulparrot:
epic reply

And totally true. Thanks
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by CanadaOrBust: 4:17am On Jul 11, 2020
OruExpress:


Capitalist countries like...?

Ask Nigerians what are their top 5 countries to emigrate to. Those countries
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by CanadaOrBust: 4:27am On Jul 11, 2020
BabaRamota1980:
America has a hybrid system. Capitalism for those that want to own others, socialism for those that will be owned.

America is capitalist. Capitalism is an economic system under which the means of production are privately owned. Everything is privately owned in US including things we take for granted are controlled or owned by govt.

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by CanadaOrBust: 4:29am On Jul 11, 2020
OruExpress:


In a country where we complain so much about corruption, and 'godfathers', I think money bags can't hijack capitalism and are far harder to dislodge than a dictator? We have gotten rid of our dictators, but oligarchs are stronger than ever.

Nigeria is a kleptocracy

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by helinues: 5:39am On Jul 11, 2020
angry
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by wirinet(m): 6:07am On Jul 11, 2020
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. The ideal system should be a harmonious blend of the two, which China and Europe is operating.

Untamed capitalism often lead to means of production being concentrated in few hands, leading to oligarchies, which in turn leads to huge disparity between the rich and poor. Such societies are eventually brought down by social tensions between the rich and poor. As the oligarchs get richer, the masses gets poor, until the poor masses revolts against the few rich elites.

A situation whereby 1% of the population controls 45% of a country's wealth, while the bottom 80% controls only 7% is unacceptable. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Untamed socialism (communism ) is also as bad, if not worse than untamed capitalism. As all the factors of production is controlled by the state, the few elites controlling the state also form a sort of oligarchy and therefore control everything. They exploit and corrupt the system to their own advantage, while the masses suffer poverty and deprivation. Communism has the added flaw of inefficiencies in production and productivity.

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Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by OruExpress: 6:49am On Jul 11, 2020
i like what you're saying, but there are non-state forms of communism as well.
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Grandmeister(m): 7:08am On Jul 11, 2020
BabaRamota1980:
America has a hybrid system. Capitalism for those that want to own others, socialism for those that will be owned.
Not many can decipher this..socialism is what the far left democrats are covertly pushing..look at the black communities, their culture has been whittled down with social welfarism for decades by democrat policies it is now a serious crisis. The problem in America today is not a race problem but a class problem..the elite(politicians, sports stars and actors) are capitalist oriented while keeping the masses under the chains of socialism..telling them they have to depend solely upon imperfect humans running imperfect governments. I rather be a capitalist grin

4 Likes

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Nobody: 7:12am On Jul 11, 2020
.

8 Likes

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by CanadaOrBust: 5:06pm On Jul 11, 2020
wirinet:
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. The ideal system should be a harmonious blend of the two, which China and Europe is operating.

Untamed capitalism often lead to means of production being concentrated in few hands, leading to oligarchies, which in turn leads to huge disparity between the rich and poor. Such societies are eventually brought down by social tensions between the rich and poor. As the oligarchs get richer, the masses gets poor, until the poor masses revolts against the few rich elites.

A situation whereby 1% of the population controls 45% of a country's wealth, while the bottom 80% controls only 7% is unacceptable. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Untamed socialism (communism ) is also as bad, if not worse than untamed capitalism. As all the factors of production is controlled by the state, the few elites controlling the state also form a sort of oligarchy and therefore control everything. They exploit and corrupt the system to their own advantage, while the masses suffer poverty and deprivation. Communism has the added flaw of inefficiencies in production and productivity.

All I know is that all the major innovations of our time are from capitalist countries (US especially, the bastion of capitalism). Anything from socialist countries is either copied or stolen from capitalists

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by wirinet(m): 6:17pm On Jul 11, 2020
CanadaOrBust:


All I know is that all the major innovations of our time are from capitalist countries ( US especially, the bastion of capitalism). Anything from socialist countries is either copied or stolen from capitalists

You seem to have US complex. Most major innovations did not come from the US. Most scientific innovations actually started from Europe, ie Electricity, printing press, internal combustion engines, rocket technology, evolution, Germ theory, Astronomy, nuclear etc.

What the US does is steal manpower. They entice the best scientists (and those in other fields ) and then Americanise them and their innovations. Other typical very recent examples are Elon Musk and Hoan Ton-That.

9 Likes

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Nobody: 10:11pm On Jul 11, 2020
4 me, Nigeria would be a better socialist state than a capitalist state if corruption wasn't an issue

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Minsk24: 12:56pm On Jul 12, 2020
wirinet:
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. The ideal system should be a harmonious blend of the two, which China and Europe is operating.

Untamed capitalism often lead to means of production being concentrated in few hands, leading to oligarchies, which in turn leads to huge disparity between the rich and poor. Such societies are eventually brought down by social tensions between the rich and poor. As the oligarchs get richer, the masses gets poor, until the poor masses revolts against the few rich elites.

A situation whereby 1% of the population controls 45% of a country's wealth, while the bottom 80% controls only 7% is unacceptable. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Untamed socialism (communism ) is also as bad, if not worse than untamed capitalism. As all the factors of production is controlled by the state, the few elites controlling the state also form a sort of oligarchy and therefore control everything. They exploit and corrupt the system to their own advantage, while the masses suffer poverty and deprivation. Communism has the added flaw of inefficiencies in production and productivity.

Chai, your reply has made me believe thar truly, people dy reason... Abeg drop your aza make i bless u this lovely Sunday..
Combining these two systems like China and Europe are doing is the best... Wherein the state controls some sectors and also provides welfare to ensure a level playing field for everyone while allowing private businesses to flourish...

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Minsk24: 12:58pm On Jul 12, 2020
Heathrow44:
4 me, Nigeria would be a better socialist state than a capitalist state if corruption wasn't an issue
No we don't need complete Socialism especially we southerners... Socialism is best for a small population just like some Nordic countries are doing, when u have a big population like ours, its best to let private business and innovation thrive...

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Minsk24: 1:04pm On Jul 12, 2020
Grandmeister:

Not many can decipher this..socialism is what the far left democrats are covertly pushing..look at the black communities, their culture has been whittled down with social welfarism for decades by democrat policies it is now a serious crisis. The problem in America today is not a race problem but a class problem..the elite(politicians, sports stars and actors) are capitalist oriented while keeping the masses under the chains of socialism..telling them they have to depend solely upon imperfect humans running imperfect governments. I rather be a capitalist grin

Imagine talk, republicans have been using the word far-left to describe democrats as tho all democrats are pushing for socialism, democratic socialism was championed by Bernie sanders and thats why DNC opted for Biden because he is more of a centrist, how is welfare bad for people when healthcare, housing and education is very expensive... Wetin u mean sef? So u mean democrats are out to impoverish blacks with welfare policies?

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Nobody: 1:15pm On Jul 12, 2020
Minsk24:

No we don't need complete Socialism especially we southerners... Socialism is best for a small population just like some Nordic countries are doing, when u have a big population like ours, its best to let private business and innovation thrive...



I meant centrally controlled socialist economy for essential services like electricity, water, waste disposal, Nigerian airways etc.

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Minsk24: 1:20pm On Jul 12, 2020
Heathrow44:




I meant centrally controlled socialist economy for essential services like electricity, water, waste disposal, Nigerian airways etc.
Okay bro, thats a good idea...
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by wirinet(m): 1:20pm On Jul 12, 2020
Minsk24:


Chai, your reply has made me believe thar truly, people dy reason... Abeg drop your aza make i bless u this lovely Sunday..
Combining these two systems like China and Europe are doing is the best... Wherein the state controls some (critical) sectors and also provides welfare to ensure a level playing field for everyone while allowing private businesses to flourish...
Gbam!

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Sammy07: 1:23pm On Jul 12, 2020
US is actually both Socialist and Capitalist.

But a developing country like Nigeria.
Should adopt capitalist first.

After a certain stage, socialist will take effect so that the side effect of capitalist will be easily controlled

3 Likes

Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by wirinet(m): 2:58pm On Jul 12, 2020
Minsk24:

No we don't need complete Socialism especially we southerners... Socialism is best for a small population just like some Nordic countries are doing, when u have a big population like ours, its best to let private business and innovation thrive...
Actually man is a social animal. We could never have risen to the apex of the animal kingdom without being social. Whether on the family, clan, tribal or national level, some level of socialism promotes progress and stability.

As I said earlier, from practical experience complete Socialism (communism ) had proven to be a disaster.

Even the US that boasts of capitalism and credits it's development to capitalism is not exactly accurate. A lot of technologies were funded with public money and not private money, ie space exploration, nuclear bomb and others. Furthermore, during the sub prime mortgage crisis of 2008, the banks who caused the crisis were given trillions of public money as bail outs. During this coronavirus crisis, the Trump administration has spent trillions of dollars supporting private business. What's is capitalism if public resources are always used to bail out private businesses?

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Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Minsk24: 4:00pm On Jul 12, 2020
wirinet:

Actually man is a social animal. We could never have risen to the apex of the animal kingdom without being social. Whether on the family, clan, tribal or national level, some level of socialism promotes progress and stability.

As I said earlier, from practical experience complete Socialism (communism ) had proven to be a disaster.

Even the US that boasts of capitalism and credits it's development to capitalism is not exactly accurate. A lot of technologies were funded with public money and not private money, ie space exploration, nuclear bomb and others. Furthermore, during the sub prime mortgage crisis of 2008, the banks who caused the crisis were given trillions of public money as bail outs. During this coronavirus crisis, the Trump administration has spent trillions of dollars supporting private business. What's is capitalism if public resources are always used to bail out private businesses?

Well said bro,
Re: What's Wrong With Socialism? Lets Debate by Opexzy: 5:43pm On Jul 12, 2020
Sammy07:
US is actually both Socialist and Capitalist.

But a developing country like Nigeria.
Should adopt capitalist first.

After a certain stage, socialist will take effect so that the side effect of capitalist will be easily controlled

Don't you think, it's better to run both instead of phasing them.. It might be problematic to introduce another one later on.

I am of the opinion that government should spell out which area of the economy they want to control while we are still yet to get it right and continue to build on it. Nigeria will thrive better in a hybrid of socialism and capitalism in the ratio of 30:70 respectively.
...but again, there is no one way to achieve a goal.

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