benodic:


@ e36991

- contents here were snipped -

. . . but towards the end of your last post you started coming closer to what i was expecting.

you read the scriptures, you assimilate it and then you tune in to the holy spirit to make some sense of what you read.

that to me is a very important step.

so finally you gave an answer in your own words. quite a relief.

so a holding place you said. so in this holding place does it hold both the good and bad people in the same place together?

@benodic

Yes, it does hold everyone in the same place together (i.e. a holding place)

@ e36991

@benodic

Yes, it does hold everyone in the same place together (i.e. a holding place)

very interesting indeed. so what you are saying is that from the beginning of time all the people who have come to the earth and have died are all in this holding place? nobody yet is in hell and nobody yet has entered heaven?

benodic:


@ e36991

very interesting indeed.

so what you are saying is that from the beginning of time all the people who have come to the earth and have died are all in this holding place?

nobody yet is in hell and nobody yet has entered heaven?

@benodic

Affirmative. Roger nobody yet is in hell and nobody yet has entered heaven.

@ e36991

Affirmative. Roger nobody yet is in hell and nobody yet has entered heaven.

this your answer has made me very curious as to what branch of Christianity you are affiliated to. this sounds like Jehovah witness doctrine. are you a Jehovah witness?

benodic:


@ e36991

this your answer has made me very curious as to what branch of Christianity you are affiliated to.

this sounds like Jehovah witness doctrine.

are you a Jehovah witness?

@benodic

I know which Vine I am a branch of . . .

Fear not, I am not a JW

besides havent you heard, that there are no denominations in the Kingdom of Heaven?

If people would listen to and consider the words of such as e36991, a lot of misconceptions bandied about concerning Christianity would be put to rest. Sadly, the face of Christianity presented is that of those seeking a quick buck and they have turned truth inside out and upside down. I will leave him to continue but just wished to present an allegory -

The Bible is a user manual as it were, for a vehicle. While it can/will contain a great deal that helps you use your vehicle (life) the right way and get the best of it, I never saw a vehicle user manual that teaches you to drive. That, you learn extraneous of manuals.

@ e36991

@benodic

I know which Vine I am a branch of . . .

Fear not, I am not a JW

besides havent you heard, that there are no denominations in the Kingdom of Heaven?

i am hearing a lot of interesting things from you. so there are no denominations in the kingdom of heaven? interesting.

so back to the topic we were discussing. now we have arrived at the conclusion which you proffered that in this holding area that everybody is there. all the souls who have ever stepped their feet on earth and passed on are still in this holding place.

so what i want to ask now is what do you make of the statement that st paul made in 2nd corinthians chapter 2: 2-4. where he was talking about a man caught up to the 3rd heaven. so how comes someone went to the 3rd heaven if according to you everybody is in a holding area.
mind you i am taking this example from your christian bible as i do not want bother you with other seemingly unverified sources.

benodic:


@ e36991

i am hearing a lot of interesting things from you. so there are no denominations in the kingdom of heaven? interesting.

so back to the topic we were discussing.

now we have arrived at the conclusion which you proffered that in this holding area that everybody is there.

all the souls who have ever stepped their feet on earth and passed on are still in this holding place.

so what i want to ask now is what do you make of the statement that st paul made in 2nd corinthians chapter 2: 2-4.

where he was talking about a man caught up to the 3rd heaven. so how comes someone went to the 3rd heaven

if according to you everybody is in a holding area.

mind you i am taking this example from your christian bible as i do not want bother you with other seemingly unverified sources.

@benodic

Hmm-mm, that is right, everyone is in the holding place, pending and/or awaiting

I have no beef with 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 . . . except its about paradise

Incidentally Paul was actually befuddled. He couldnt tell whether it was a mental or physical experience?

That's beside the point, so, tell me, where is Paul now?

@ e36991

Hmm-mm, that is right, everyone is in the holding place, pending or waiting

I have no beef with 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 . . . except its about paradise

So tell me where is Paul now?

i am surprised that you are asking me where Paul is. According to you he should be in the holding area together with all the  Romans that killed him and also together with all the Jews and Romans that crucified Jesus.

even if i tell you where he is will you believe me?

i will give you a tip. ask the holy spirit in prayer with an open heart and with no preconceived notions.
remember that Jesus said in the bible that the holy spirit will lead us to all truth. so go ahead and ask the holy  spirit. It will reveal the truth about Paul's whereabouts to you if you are ready for it.

have fun in your quest.

benodic:


@ e36991

i am surprised [/b]that you are asking me where Paul is.

[b]According to you he should be in the holding area together with all the Romans that killed him

and also together with all the Jews and Romans that crucified Jesus.

even if i tell you where he is will you believe me?

i will give you a tip. ask the holy spirit in prayer with an open heart and with no preconceived notions.

remember that Jesus said in the bible that the holy spirit will lead us to all truth.

so go ahead and ask the holy spirit. It will reveal the truth about Paul's whereabouts to you if you are ready for it.

have fun in your quest.

@benodic

You arent half puzzling eh? . . .

Did I rile you up asking where Paul is?

I have deliberately been overlooking each of the assumptions you continually make in your postings

You should have queried on, ask further what the holding place is etc . . .

You didn't, so, you were given the chance, to reveal where Paul presently is, if otherwise, he is not in a holding place

but you opted for a patronised mediocre response tinged with sarcasm. Tut-tut-tut, tut-tut . . .

Fun? By the looks of it, it seems its you having all the fun.

@ e36991

@benodic

You arent half puzzling eh? . . .

Did I rile you up asking where Paul is?

sure you did not. but it actually sent me into bouts of

I have deliberately been overlooking each of the assumptions you continually make in your postings

pray , kindly enlighten me on the assumptions i have been continually making in my postings

You should have queried on, ask further what the holding place is etc . . .

i thought you have actually answered that. a waiting place as you succinctly put it with both the good and bad in the same place

.

You didn't, so, you were given the chance, to reveal where Paul presently is, if otherwise, he is not in a holding place

you tell me

but you opted for a patronised mediocre response tinged with sarcasm. Tut-tut-tut, tut-tut . . .

sorry if you saw it that way. i was really serious.
no sarcasm or patronizing meant. because that was really how my quest for these mysteries i am asking you about started.
i also realized that you do not get answers to such serious questions from a book or from what anyone is telling you. you really have to let go of all pre-conceived notions and ask God directly.
why is it so difficult for Christians to do that? why do Christians feel threatened when they come across someone who does so.

Fun? By the looks of it, it seems its you having all the fun.

you bet. i am really enjoying myself. usually i do not bother to have this kind of conversation i am having with you. i just sensed you were a bit different from the usual run of the mill christians. no offense meant.

e36991:


@benodic

You arent half puzzling eh? . . .

Did I rile you up asking where Paul is?

benodic:


@ e36991

sure you did not. but it actually sent me into bouts of 

e36991:


I have deliberately been overlooking each of the assumptions you continually make in your postings

benodic:


pray , kindly enlighten me on the assumptions i have been continually making in my postings

e36991:


You should have queried on, ask further what the holding place is etc . . .

benodic:


i thought you have actually answered that. a waiting place as you succinctly put it with both the good and bad in the same place.

e36991:


You didn't, so, you were given the chance, to reveal where Paul presently is, if otherwise, he is not in a holding place

benodic:


you tell me

e36991:


but you opted for a patronised mediocre response tinged with sarcasm. Tut-tut-tut, tut-tut . . .

benodic:


sorry if you saw it that way. i was really serious. no sarcasm or patronizing meant.

because that was really how my quest for these mysteries i am asking you about started.

i also realized that you do not get answers to such serious questions from a book or from what anyone is telling you.

you really have to let go of all pre-conceived notions and ask God directly.

why is it so difficult for Christians to do that? why do Christians feel threatened when they come across someone who does so.

e36991:


Fun? By the looks of it, it seems its you having all the fun.

benodic:


you bet. i am really enjoying myself.

usually i do not bother to have this kind of conversation i am having with you.

i just sensed you were a bit different from the usual run of the mill christians. no offense meant.

@benodic

The christian label assumption for starters - Dont know you that christian is not the zenith of a believer

The JW assumption . . .

The holding place assumption - You finding it incredible that:

"Paul, all the Romans that killed him, together with all the Jews and Romans that crucified Jesus" can be in a holding place together

The assumption that  ". . . both the good and bad in the same place . . ." is not possible

Too many assumptions . . . 

Try questioning to a void (i.e. try asking questions to a dead end and then moving on to another/the next question)

No one is feeling threatened or intimidated. Dont fall for another assumption there.

Your posting are respectfully read with due considerations and thoughtful regard

You show your hand and I'll give as good as I get. Whats wrong with that eh?

I've told where Paul is.

If you beg to differ then volunteer where he is, instead of a wisecrack

@post
No one can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that god even exists. So how can anyone prove that god really knows you? As far as i'm concerned God is imaginary

@ e36991

The christian label assumption for starters - Dont know you that christian is not the zenith of a believer

so educate me please what is the zenith of a believer. i am all ears

The JW assumption . .

.

you can't blame me there as that is exactly the same thing they preach. i.e the holding place theory

The holding place assumption - Finding it incredible that:

"Paul, all the Romans that killed him, together with all the Jews and Romans that crucified Jesus" can be in a holding place together

what do you think will happen if ken saro wiwa sees Abacha who killed him in the holding place? don't you think he will like to get even resulting in chaos?

The assumption that  ". . . both the good and bad in the same place . . ."

you did say that they are all in the holding place together

No one is feeling threatened or intimidated. Dont fall for another assumption there.

this one definitely is not an assumption. it is what i have seen in many  christians that i tried discussing with. i was not referring to you

Your posting are respectfully read with due considerations and thoughtful regard

that is why i said that you are different. i find it difficult to believe these posts have lasted this long

You show your hand and I'll give as good as I get. Whats wrong with that eh?

please my dear it is not a boxing match and there is no trophy for the winner.

I've told where Paul is.

If you beg to differ then volunteer where he is, instead of a wisecrack

i could imagine Paul's face if he were to read what you wrote about him. how can i explain where paul is when you have said that nobody is in heaven yet.
and you went on to say that paul was confused when he saw a man caught up to the 3rd heaven.

that is why i said on a very serious note that you go ahead and ask the holy spirit. you know the unique thing about the Holy spirit is that once you are a sincere seeker of truth, it will gradually take you step by step through the various levels of truth and it will be done in such a natural way that you will understand and fully appreciate each level of truth that is presented before you.  

even better you can try asking paul himself. watch your experience. i am really serious. no jokes

benodic:


@ e36991

. . . what do you think will happen if ken saro wiwa sees Abacha who killed him in the holding place?

don't you think he will like to get even resulting in chaos? . . .

@benodic

Ah! So even sef, you fit be naija 

If you are familiar with names such as Ken Saro Wiwa and Abacha

then there's a likelihood you sabi naija or somehow have an affiliation with naija

From the onset, I didnt want to presume you have anything to do with naija.

Makes it more interesting . . .

and for the record, far from it been a boxing match or bouting for a trophy

I know you're better than you're feigning (i.e. ". . . what do you think will happen if ken saro wiwa sees Abacha who killed him in the holding place?"

Are you for real. Please pull the other leg 

Excuse the Schwarzenegger moment - be right back . . .

benodic:


@ e36991

so educate me please what is the zenith of a believer. i am all ears.

you can't blame me there as that is exactly the same thing they preach. i.e the holding place theory

what do you think will happen if ken saro wiwa sees Abacha who killed him in the holding place?

don't you think he will like to get even resulting in chaos?

you did say that they are all in the holding place together

this one definitely is not an assumption. it is what i have seen in many  christians that i tried discussing with. i was not referring to you

that is why i said that you are different. i find it difficult to believe these posts have lasted this long

please my dear it is not a boxing match and there is no trophy for the winner.

i could imagine Paul's face if he were to read what you wrote about him.

how can i explain where paul is when you have said that nobody is in heaven yet.

and you went on to say that paul was confused when he saw a man caught up to the 3rd heaven.

that is why i said on a very serious note that you go ahead and ask the holy spirit.

you know the unique thing about the Holy spirit is that once you are a sincere seeker of truth,

it will gradually take you step by step through the various levels of truth and it will be done in such a natural way that you will understand

and fully appreciate each level of truth that is presented before you.  

even better you can try asking paul himself. watch your experience. i am really serious. no jokes

@ benodic

Really hope you subscribe to your own medication of open the mind cue and look at it this way. Check this out

Palatial mansions have gardens. Yeah?

- beautiful, panoramic landscaped and all, an extension of the house, paradise yeah?

Similar to Adam's, before he got booted out into reality

The garden of Eden was a like paradise, a High Commission; an extension of the Kingdom of Heaven

Adam in effect was the governor-general over Earth resident in garden of Eden . . .

Well, the holding place too is an extension of Heaven

The holding place comprises of two camps; namely Hades and Paradise

Paul, no doubt, had an experience, some what, of Paradise

Paradise it was, appreciate it was not heaven.

Now mind you, there is an unbridgeable gulf between Hades and Paradise at this holding place

OK, brief touch base on Ken Saro Wiwa and Abacha . . .

Well certainly, they'll both in the holding place (i.e Hades and/or Paradise)

Which camp or section particularly? I sincerely cant tell for sure

but if Ken Saro Wiwa was in one camp at the holding place and Abacha was in the other camp, there is no way they'll have physical contact

We reliably know that sight and communication happens but physical contact is not possible between the two camps at the holding place

Reckon this is a good place to remind you of John 3:13 and what it states:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven - John 3:13 KJV

Erm, please dont point Enoch, Elijah or Moses to me after reading that John 3:13 verse. Ouch! No!! Please!!! Dont!

If anyone is going to heaven at all, it'll be for the honeymoon

It cant get any better than that . . .

They'll be returning, coming back, down to earth after the honeymoon

Trust me.

". . . even better you can try asking paul himself. watch your experience. i am really serious. no jokes" Pftt!

This is more better, free, from me for you . Dont give up the day job yet, for a comic career change.

PS: Concerning Paul's hesitancy, here is the proof of the pudding:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
such an one caught up to the third heaven - 2 Corinthians 12:2 KJV

@ e36991

it is very good that you are catching the fun. and of course i am 100% naija. i am surprised you did not feel the naija vibes all this while.

so far so good. we are making progress. so now from your explanations there are 2 holding places. hades for the bad guys and paradise for the good guys. and the 2 does not meet as there is a demarcation. okay

with that taken care of lets go to the issue of reincarnation.

in the doctrine of reincarnation, souls are sent to the earth to learn lessons and grow to spiritual maturity. after a soul drops the physical body in the process of death, It goes to the inner planes where it undergoes judgement. after that judgement if it is deemed that the soul has not completed its lessons it is compelled to come back and put on another physical body to continue its lessons from birth to death.

now before the coming of christianity to naija it was a well known fact amongst our people that reincarnation exists. in fact we took it for granted. and in my place a lot of interesting cases pointing to reincarnation abound. i too had my own experiences i remembered my past life.

so the question i want to ask is that how does reincarnation fit in with this your holding place theory or is reincarnation the work of the devil as most christians will put it

(or is it a case of souls who escaped from the holding place for another round of fun on earth) this one is a joke oh

i will gladly like to see your input on this. no assumptions this time.