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Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 3:06pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
Please bible scholars and experts I need some education here. How did the bible view slavery. I'm trying to do some study onthis but it seems I ain't making much progress. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 3:51pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
Is this Prez in the religion section? The bible does not exactly 'endorse' slavery, but it certainly did permit it and instituted standards by which slave owners should treat their slaves. Here's a quick summary quote from CARM (Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, a fantastic website (along with apologeticspress.org) by the way if you're looking for quality christian apologetics on practically any subject) http://carm.org/slavery and if you want to get much more detailed, here is ApologeticsPress.org with a long but solid article http://www.apologeticspress.org/article/1587 |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 4:53pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
Yes Dear Jesoul, it is me I decided to quit politics section for a while, it was full of quarrelling and hate. I find myself fighting with people I don't even know, people who may, in real life, actually be nice people I'll love to be with. I decided to come to religion section where I may benefit spiritually at least, and improve my bible knowledge. Needless to say, I was also dissappointed. People here are just like politics section, perhaps worse. But I started this reasearch on the bible, sex, slavery, divorce. I'm shocked that slavery was not condemned neither by Moses, nor by Christ. I believe I'm wrong so I needed help. Or is slavery of the bible not the same as the 400 yrs slavery of the USA( for example) which ended in the 19th century. I'll read your posts and do more research on this issue bc it's worrisome to me. If you have any information about the bible and divorce, sex, domestic violence and democracy pls let me know. Cheers. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 6:44pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
pres-elect:My dear 'quarrelling' and 'fighting' is everywhere on NL lol. It just matters how you approach it and what you take away from it. I personally love sparring with you in the FA section . . . you're such an unrepentant Liberal . Don't worry. We'll soon be back. You hear say the constitutionality of Obamacare is going to be the hot topic in the coming months . . . but I digress, this is religion But I started this reasearch on the bible, sex, slavery, divorce. I'm shocked that slavery was not condemned neither by Moses, nor by Christ. I believe I'm wrong so I needed help. Or is slavery of the bible not the same as the 400 yrs slavery of the USA( for example) which ended in the 19th century.My dear you are not wrong on both counts. As a christian, there is still much in the bible that is 'worrisome' to me as well. On this issue of slavery, I believe the bottom line biblically is this: God permitted it, but it wasn't His ideal. It was part of human culture/tradition, and rather than outright condemn it (which many of us christians wish He did) He chose instead to institute very strict laws and commands on how the Jews (and Christians in the NT) should treat their slaves. One reason for God doing that may be this - Another angle to the issue (which you rightly pointed out) that bears considerable weight is that slavery over human history has had different variations. Not all slavery was involuntary or undeserved. For example some were enslaved as punishment for crimes, some because they owed a debt, others willingly sold/submitted themselves into slavery that they may be under the care of a master and then the bad one - those who were forcefully enslaved - like our ancestors. So in other words, slavery as we understand it in modern times is measurably different from what was in the OT. Keeping this in mind will really help understand (to an extent at least) the context (very important) under which God chose to permit the practice of slavery. If we look at the laws/commands God gave for the treatment of slaves, we see that the relationship He intended was one of mutual respect and benefit - this is very important. For example in the OT, a slave was part of the family, participating in family events and traditions. The master's power over him/her was limited, a master couldn't just do whatever he pleased with them. And the after a certain amount of years, the slave was to be freed and given/paid enough money/gifts to be able to survive on his own until he had gotten on his feet economically. etc etc Personally, and from my limited human understanding, I wish God just said "No" to slavery, but hey, what do I know? He is the one with infinite knowledge, so I can trust He certainly knows what he's doing. Hope all ^that helps. Cheers my dear friend! |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by mazaje(m): 8:11pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
If you want to know wether the bible endorses slavery, all you need to do is take the bible and READ it for yourself. . . .The bible was written back in the days when slavery was accepatable, in fact it was written by very primitive cultures that believe that a man has the right to sell his daughters into slavery. The bible VERY clearly endorses slavery in some parts of it. . . . .Here are some bible passages that very cleary endorse slavery. . . . .Forget all the lies and spin the apologist might add to what was written. . . . However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46) Here we have the bible talking about where to buy slaves, what to do with them and how they are to be held or transfered as property, injunctions were also given that Fellow Jews were never to be treated that way. . . . When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 ) Here is a verse that talks about how slaves are to be branded like animals. . . . If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6) Slavery is still approved of in the NT as well. . . . . Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5). . . Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 ) I don't think there is any part of the bible that very clearly states that slavery is bad and people should not induldge in it. . . .Thou shall not enslave each other is no where to be found in the ten commandments of Yahweh. . . . . |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 8:23pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
Mazaje, how bodi now? Na Denmark you dey now? I think say Finland we dey always see for your location before. You be journey man? Anyways, thanks for posting that^. It brings to the table the foremost scripture verses antagonists use to argue the bible 'sanctioned' slavery. Lets balance the table shall we? Here's an article that presents a different, contextual take on those same verses (from both sides btw). I already know you disagree but I'm posting for the sake of others that may be interested in what the other side has to say: for those interested, I suggest clicking on the link for a better formatted, easier read. Cheers! http://ryanreeder..com/2009/10/use-of-leviticus-2544-46-in-slavery.html |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by mazaje(m): 8:34pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
JeSoul: I dey ohh my sister, two days? Wetin dey happen? How is the new year going? May the year be good to us all. . . . .I gas dey move around ohh, man no suppose dey stay for one place all the time, its risky . . . .Best wishes. . .Will read up your post when I get home. . . |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 9:55pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
mazaje:My brother the year is going jare . Tank you for the wishes. You no fit stay for one place? risky how? do you owe somebody money there? lol. Journey man, may your feet always land on fertile soil, amen oh . And yes pls read that 'rebuttal' - its actually speaks the opinions of both sides so its a good read. Your input is always and ever fierce and takes no prisoners . Take care ehn. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by Jenwitemi(m): 10:08pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
Is there going to be slavery in christian heaven? Are dark skinned people going to be enslaved in christian heaven, while the white skinned ones enjoy all the goodies? After all, the christian god is white while the christian devil is black. That might be taken out on the dark-skins. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 10:18pm On Feb 10, 2011 |
@Prez, here's an article that you can read to your hearts delight. Gets down and dirty into details on problematic OT verses. Very long and in-depth so brave it at your own risk or benefit , Does God condone slavery in the Bible? http://christianthinktank.com/qnoslave.html |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by InesQor(m): 6:21pm On Feb 11, 2011 |
Endorse? I haven't seen that. Permit? Yeah |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by Image123(m): 6:35pm On Feb 11, 2011 |
mazaje, are the witches in finland hunting after you? |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 12:29am On Feb 14, 2011 |
Dear Jesoul, I decided to start by researching the history of the bible. I had to stop at a point bc the information I was getting was almost converting me into an atheist. However, I read somewhere, some sound advice urging me not to give up God's word bc of historical issues. Did you know that the Bible had 80 books? All of a sudden, 120 yrs ago, 14 books( know as the apocrypha)dissapeared from the Protestant Bible. No explanation, nobody knew who removed them. Various translations have come. Majority of the translations were for political or for capitalistic purposes. Did you know that the King James Version we have today is not exactly the KJV of 1611? KJV of today was actually produced in the 1770s but they kept calling it 1611 bc that version is more marketable. Then in the 1880s they removed 14 books from the bible? Did you know that the catholic church did everything in it's power to suppress the production of the bible? They also banned the translation of the bible outside Latin?so that they will have a monopoly of the scriptures and then control the entire Christendom. There are rumors of a new translation that will be more politically correct. Only God knows what they will. Hange to make the bible more politically correct. Will they change the meaning of marriage? Or will they change the meaning of homosexuality? Haa! This research worry o. Finally, did you know King James himself was Gay? Well, we worship God, not the bible. The bible is a book but God's word is the living word. The research continues |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by mazaje(m): 10:17pm On Feb 14, 2011 |
pres-elect: If you want to believe the bible go ahead and do so, researching into its true history will only lead you away from it. When you keep researching you will also discover that most of the books of the bible were written by unknown authors and not the names of the people who bear the authorship we are made to believe for example Moses did not write any of the first five books of the bible. The church ascribed the names to most of the books to give them credibility.When you continue with your research, you will discover that most of the books were written long after the events they recorded, and a lot of the events(like exodus and many others) are non historical other stories like the creation story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden are were copied from older civilizations. If you want to remain a Christian then you have to abandon your research, else with time you will become an atheist like others that conducted such research and found out the truth for themselves. . . . 1 Like |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 10:44pm On Feb 14, 2011 |
pres-elect: I am glad you're doing such extensive research Prez that is good. I am aware of most of what you mentioned. I have only one advice for you, just let the same Holy Spirit of God that convicts your heart of God's existence and of your need for salvation - direct you into all things. Because theories abound, conspiracies aplenty, speculations are endless, opinions will vary, history will be presented from all kinds of angles and perspectives. On what you should and ought to 'logically' believe and whether the bible is accurate etc etc there are a thousand voices and one. There is no scarcity of different ideas on God and Jesus and the bible. To me personally Prez, whether the bible can or cannot be proven or historically shown to be accurate is now and has always been irrelevant. Which is why a lot of the things you mentioned you found in your research has had zero impact on my belief. Because I did not first believe based on what could be 'proven' or 'verified' or a 'best estimate', so why start now? I believed because I found the word itself to be power, jumping off the pages and becoming real in my own life. That is why I personally still believe it. Not because any researcher or scientist can 'prove' it is legit. And as you conduct your own search for truth and understanding, I trust you will make up your own mind on what to believe my dear sir Godbless as always. and btw, I am waiting for you on my Presidents thread , watch me now, I will soon become his biggest defender on NL |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by JeSoul(f): 10:58pm On Feb 14, 2011 |
Also Prez, please read this article posted here in the section by a fella named Krayola. It blessed me immensely and I'm sure it will bless you too. Faith Is Trusting God, Not Belief In Doctrine https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-590298.0.html Krayola: |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by thehomer: 12:02am On Feb 15, 2011 |
JeSoul:
This is obviously a crime against humanity. Did God not know that a human owning another human was the one of the worst crimes that could be committed against another person? Did he change his mind or was it humans that decided that such an abominable act was just too debasing to both the slave and the master? carm.org: And the next verse? Ex. 21:21 check this out for cruelty. Bible Amp ver: Beat him but not enough that he dies after one day or two days? Did God not know whether or not to choose 24 hours or 48? carm.org: Of course only that he was a slave. carm.org: i.e the slave was supposed to also observe his master's religion by force. carm.org: This has me confused. Does this person remain a slave? Who now owns this slave? carm.org: What sort of moral debasement is this? Here is the quote of the first passage in full context. Bible amp ver: What sort of supreme, wise and good being will give this as law? To hold a man hostage because he loves his wife and children? The devil himself was not this cruel in the Bible. carm.org: So that is the payment for the Hebrew slave that didn't happen to be beaten to death shortly before his release. carm.org: This no excuse for it. God could command people not to kill as though they knew no better but he could not command them not to own other people? Yet this God does not change? These Christian apologists should try to be consistent. The Bible clearly endorses slavery i.e people were encouraged to enslave people and the slaves were at the same time encouraged to obey their masters i.e slaves are not supposed to revolt. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by thehomer: 12:19am On Feb 15, 2011 |
@pres-elect One of the most effective ways of turning people away from the Bible is getting them to read it while thinking about what they're reading. Another is getting them to look into the history of the Bible. Why are you afraid of losing your belief in this Biblical God? |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 9:55pm On Feb 15, 2011 |
Thehomer you won't understand. I'm a deep xtian. Period. My life story has convinced me there is a God in heaven. I have a PERSONAL rlshp wt him and yes he knows me by my name. I cannot base my religious belief on articles and books alone. No way. Even my medical training gave more proof that there is a God in heaven. You have to convince me that your complex Swiss watch came up from some big bang theory before you can dream of telling me that all nature came from nowhere and nothing. No, I won't take that. My research was to improve my knowledge not to question God but I begin to question a lot of thongs and at this point, truth be said, I'm confused. I gotta end this research, at least temporarily. , ,.hmmmn, hmmmn, unbelievable, I can't believe this, ok, ,,,ok, ,I'm done |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by thehomer: 10:52pm On Feb 15, 2011 |
pres-elect: Have you ever heard him call your name? What medical evidence did you encounter that made you conclude that there was a God and that there was also a heaven? pres-elect: No one has made this argument. pres-elect: Why do you not question God? Are you afraid of what you might find? I'd advice you to continue your research if you really care about whether or not what you believe is true. pres-elect: Good luck to you. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 3:05pm On Feb 16, 2011 |
Homer you won't understand. I need to cool my head now. I didn't expect this at all. I need to take a break, and return later to this research. And I do question my God. But I don't question his authority. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by Nobody: 4:05pm On Feb 16, 2011 |
JeSoul said: The bible does not exactly 'endorse' slavery, but it certainly did permit it and instituted standards by which slave owners should treat their slaves. I have to laugh at this statement - In fact it is so patently ludicrous that I need to laugh one more time: Phew - Now my ribs have stopped hurting, may I ask you a simple question, ie, what does PERMISSION and the SETTING OF STANDARDS for the operation of slavery constitute if not a ringing endorsement Y'see this is why I say that Confusion and double standards borne of the gross contradiction between the ideal virtues you attribute to God, and the viciously repugnant character of the ''God'' character in the Jewish bible, will be the undoing of you christians. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by thehomer: 11:38pm On Feb 16, 2011 |
pres-elect: What do you question about your God? |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 5:53pm On Mar 09, 2011 |
when events i dont comprehend happen to me, contrary to my understanding of God's will, I ask my God questions. I'm his child, the apple of his eyes. i may not understand everything but i do ask questions about my personal life. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by thehomer: 8:41am On Mar 10, 2011 |
pres-elect: And does he respond? |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by Image123(m): 1:32pm On Mar 10, 2011 |
Hahaha, so atheists too have started doing 'evangelism'? |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by LoveKing(m): 10:06pm On Mar 10, 2011 |
This is interesting. But wait, Is God not Love? What is Love? will Love even think of slavery (in any kind of way)? Really the screen is clear before us but we are the ones making things so complex. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by preselect(m): 10:19pm On Mar 10, 2011 |
thehomer: yes, in his own way |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by thehomer: 6:59am On Mar 11, 2011 |
pres-elect: What do you mean by this? |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by nlPoster: 12:32pm On Sep 29, 2019 |
. |
Re: Bible Questions-1; Did The Bible Endorse Slavery? by sonmvayina(m): 12:58pm On Sep 29, 2019 |
Fact number 1: the Bible is NOT a history text book. Fact number 2: the Bible is a spiritual manual. Fact number 3: translating the Bible literally will lead to more problems as the authors where not writing actual event. Fact number 4: God is not a man or human being. Fact number 5: men wrote the Bible. Fact number 6: Gods, goddesses, Devils, are all personification of natural laws and principles.. Back to my points, slavery simply means ignorance of self.. So Egypt simply personifies it.. So the gods of Egypt simply means the things that stops you from knowing who you are and being the best version of yourself.. Like worries, procrastination, fear, anger.. Etc.. So we are required to read the whole story and learn the messages they teach.. Not reading them out of context.. The letter killeth. |
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