kingxsamz:
The day I see miracle growing people's amputated limbs back is the day I'll start believing in this god.

kingxsamz:
The day I see miracle growing people's amputated limbs back is the day I'll start believing in this god.

hakeem4:
Even if i see a limb grow back. it does not in anyway prove the existence of any god. At best it shows the person has a genetic disorder which allows it to regenerate his/her limbs like a salamander

hakeem4:
Even if i see a limb grow back. it does not in anyway prove the existence of any god. At best it shows the person has a genetic disorder which allows it to regenerate his/her limbs like a salamander

DrLiveLogic:

It will only prove the supernatural to you but it won't give you faith to save your soul.

kingxsamz:


Eh, since the supernatural can't be proven, it'd be dumb to believe an invisible man lives in the sky, don't you think?

hakeem4:
Even if i see a limb grow back. it does not in anyway prove the existence of any god. At best it shows the person has a genetic disorder which allows it to regenerate his/her limbs like a salamander

genetic disorder? to me that's a blessing

hakeem4:
Even if i see a limb grow back. it does not in anyway prove the existence of any god. At best it shows the person has a genetic disorder which allows it to regenerate his/her limbs like a salamander

DrLiveLogic:

It will only prove the supernatural to you but it won't give you faith to save your soul.


Let me first understand your case please. Are you saying there is no kind of feat that you'd ever call supernatural?

hakeem4:

supernatural is just a term used to explain something that does not sound natural. I am a materialist and i can confidently say there is nothing more than the physical. Religion use to claim it can explain everything; meaning everything is controlled by an all powerful all nice, all great and omniscient god!

A sentence from david hume would correct most claims about miracles or supernatural. A miracle is defined not as part of the natural order but a suspension of the laws of nature. How ever if you probably meet someone in the street who you yesterday saw executed; you can say either an extraordinary miracle has occured or you are under a grave misapprehension. And David Hume further states that what is more likely?
The laws of nature suspended in your favour or that you have made a mistake? especially if you did not see it yourself.

[b]summary[/b]Believing in the supernatural is nonsense cause there is no evidence for it

humblyphilip:


Try to go through the writeup at least, for better understanding

humblyphilip:


Yes, exactly my point, kindly go through my writeup, do you?

hakeem4:
yes i have gone through it and I was about commenting on it before you asked me to.

Well i have no problem in you defining what you wish up there. But the part that caught my attention was when you said christ never taught foolishness. This itself is a vacuous statement in the sense that jesus christ made a large statement "He without sin should cast his stone" How does he ensure that an imperfect society like ours punish perjurers, rapist, mass murderers and other heinous offenders?
Many more foolish things he said in the new testatments.

Further more of what use is prayer if at the end of the day we work for our things ourselves and god has a master plan for ourlife.

believing in a god is irrational

hakeem4:
yes i have gone through it and I was about commenting on it before you asked me to.

Well i have no problem in you defining what you wish up there. But the part that caught my attention was when you said christ never taught foolishness. This itself is a vacuous statement in the sense that jesus christ made a large statement "He without sin should cast his stone" How does he ensure that an imperfect society like ours punish perjurers, rapist, mass murderers and other heinous offenders?
Many more foolish things he said in the new testatments.

Further more of what use is prayer if at the end of the day we work for our things ourselves and god has a master plan for ourlife.

believing in a god is irrational

humblyphilip:


And the same statement I'll made unto you also, "if you are without sin, cast the first stone".

Christ never had any issue with someone being punished for being a sinner, inasmuch as the person punishing is without sin himself, what Christ is against is the hypocrisy of he that judge, how can you convict others of a charge, of which you yourself are guilty of.
Everything in life is interconnected, and one person action directly or indirectly affect another, hence if your neighbour commit an offence, it is not his will to do so, there are many factors contributing to that, including the environment the person grew in, his/her relations and contacts, these people in a way or another contribute to the final man you see committed an atrocity, and if everyone has chosen to live his best, in love and unity, then, those won't have happened, well, the above may seems impractical in today's society, but that's the pure law of nature, which Christ seeks to promote, you are directly/indirectly responsible for the actions and inactions of your neighbour, and unless these issues are address, the present confused state of humanity is only a tip of an iceberg. Take responsibility, be your brothers keeper.

Christ never said anything against the law that guides the smooth running of nature, take for example science, for any scientifically product to work smoothly, it get to be in perfect cohesion, or else there will be an error, this law guides humanity, and in general, everything in nature.

Hence if you regard any statement made by Christ as foolish, reassess your knowledge again, for even animals and plants, has to abide by this law, before they can achieve any form of success.

Let's take for an instance, the case of the lion and the tiger, they are both big and powerful cat, the tiger pissessing more strenght, yet the lion is a more successful CST in the jungle, compared to the tiger, and is even considered the key ng of the jungle. How is this achievable.

The lion is an animal that understand the law of unity and cooperation, hence move in pack and hunt in pack, it keep a family also, and together they defend their territory, whereas the tiger is a lone hunter, which doesn't understand the importance of unity, hence, the tiger is less successful in the jungle, compared to the lion.

In conclusion, your society is imperfect because you made it so, Christ only brings you the way to take you out of this imperfection, if only you will follow it.

hakeem4:


Christ doesn’t bring us out of any imperfection.

I think the teachings of Christianity are immoral. Especially the central teach which is vicarious redemption. That you can throw your sin on someone else; more like scapegoating. No one has any right to take your sins away. Yes! I can pay your debt if I love you, I can serve your term if I love you. But I can’t take your sins or crime away, I have no right to offer you that I’d abolish your responsibility. Your sins have to stay with you. There’s no vicarious redemption. It isn’t even a redemption at all, it is just part of wishful thinking. And I don’t think wishful thinking is good for people either.

Christianity make love compulsory, saying you must love your neighbour as yourself First of all it is impossible to love your enemies. That’s to say you must love someone you fear; that is a supreme being and eternal father, someone who’s ready to punish you for not loving him. This leads to a totalitarian system.

So with the few points you gave up there, I’m not convinced enough to believe in your god even though no single evidence supports him. Logically it is wrong to believe in that type of dictatorship loving father

humblyphilip:
Someone seeks to be converted from being an atheist, on the basis that whatever God you believe in shall be able to shift a cup of water he he places in his front from its position and also the believers in sango to command thunder to strike him, and I being a devoted Christian, decided to defend my faith.

Here was my reply:



The reason why what you ask is impractical with being a Christian is because, the Christian religion (according to the word of Christ), in its simplicity, edifies man and places him above all things, hence making man a God of himself, christians are encourage to trust and believe in themselves that they can do all things, which is logically practical, Christ never did, nor encourage anyone to do that which is impractical, hence waiting for a miracle will only amount to wishful thinking, you can perform any miracle you wish to inasmuch as you have a brain to think, hence Christ said, "I'm in you, and you're in me, what I do you can do, and greater work than what I did, you can do also", wich is practically possible, if you discipline yourself to achieve anything you wish to

Christ was only trying to promote faith on ones self by applying the rule of psychology, he refuses to answer a lot of question cause they are dumb question, and only speaks in parable, believing that those who had an understanding mind should be able to understand, but many added undue meaning to his teaching. And decided to promote dogma, this is not surprising, as Christ also said, only few shall understand what he came to teach (for the road is narrow, and only few therein finds it), talking of paradise and many other illusion which have been passed down for many generation, although Christ actually talks of an heavenly abode, but right from time, his teaching has been mostly done in parables, and the use of psychological knowledge to make men realise their foolishness, hence an inference on such a paradise may be another prank to sift those that can think critically and those that are lazy in thinking, which will rather come to term with a foolish conclusion. Christ as always been a a practical man, doing the unexpected at unexpected time, leaving many of the fools in admiration, but if you consider his way very well, he lives his life causing stirs, and speaking words to promote provocative thought, those who settle to ruminate on his words, and actions together, where able to realise the trap which they are in, and chose to be a better version of themselves, those who are lazy in thinking, settles to idolizing him, thereby putting themselves below the capability of an average human, thereby making themselves a slave, furthermore, getting more deep into the bondage which they seeks to be free of.(Christ said, "think not that I have come to bring peace into the world, i have not come to bring peace but confusion), this people, being foolish themselves, will always look for a fool to do all their bidding, but they can never see one, unless they themselves became the fools that they desire to be, Christ was never a fool, he his sent to make everyone realise how foolish they have been believing in a higher power other than themselves, thereby limiting their ability of living the full human being they are meant to be.

Yes, you are man, you are a God, you have power to do and achieve everything you wish to do and be, don't wait for anything to move you before you move yourself, until you take a step, you will never realise how powerful you are, every great thing in life started by taking action, they where not in existence before, neither do anyone thought it possible until some people decided to believe, take a step,fails multiply, but never give up, cause they believe, and they achieve their aim, this is what Christ came to preach (faith, dream), this is why he paints so many unrealistic picture and encourage his followers to search for what was lost, for the picture he painted where the perfect picture of what is suppose to be, but many people misunderstood this, chose to go after their own ever lazy dellusioning mind (even animals in the jungle are never relenting, there is always something spectacular going on, nature in general never stops moving, something spectacular is always happening, how much more human, thought to be the head of all this creation, you deceive yourself if you think something will come to your aid to achieve what you want, for everything you ever needs lies within you.) In conclusion, Christ is a realist,a great psychologist, which has only come to paint a perfect picture of what the life of man is suppose be, then encourage his followers to strive for it, but many has failed to understand this, while very few that understand, decides that Christ isn't worthy of being worship (which is quite through, the only entity worthy of being worship is ones self, which is ones God, although, Christ never asked to be worship) and chose to be an atheist,which is not bad either, for the earth is the lords (nature itself, consisting of man animals and plant) and the fullness thereof, therefore, inasmuch as anyone decided to follow the natural rule of nature,without going against this law, whether you be religious or not, you are doing the will of the father (nature), and shall achieve all your aim (heaven), for he that doeth the will of my father shall be counted the son of my father, and to many on that last day, I will say, unto "I never know you", although they may have prophesy, or do wonders in my name (that last day, could possibly be you achieving all your aim here on earth, at least Christ promise the gullible ones a thousand years ago, that he will soon be back, they foolishly waited for him, throwing themselves into perpetual confusion, not knowing that now is their eternity, and till today are still waiting for him, but they had a long wait to do, and until they began to realise how gullible they are and takes Christ perfectly in his teaching, they shall die, hopeless, and they shall not live, for unless you are living a fulfilled life, you have no life at all and are considered dead.

In conclusion man, if you want your cup of water to leave its position, you have hand, pick it up, Christ never thought foolishness, if you want thunder to strike you, of course it's possible, and you can do it if you really need it, make that your hallmark, set your mind unto it, and I tell you the truth you shall achieve it, Christ never thought foolishness, you can do all things, inasmuch as you set your mind into it, you are your own God, you are your own saviour, but there is strength in unity, and things are achieved more easily when you trust others, apart from trusting yourself, trust your neighbour, work in ally, to achieve a common goal, and the power in unity will make this more achievable(that's the strength that lies in being a couple), so like wise, trust in Christ, for he is also a soul like you, and as science has proven(energy has been proven never to die, once created), so likewise a soul of man, being an energy, can never die, hence Christ lives forever, and you can bound to him to unite your soul to his, and being a great man himself, you both obeying the law of unity and love, shall do great things together, and this is why Christ encourages his disciple to believe in him, trust in him, and pray in his name, this signifies love, this signifies unity, and the energy it emanate is powerful to the extent that unexpected events can happen within a relatively short period of time(this is miracle), for practicality, purpose, look for someone to love, let there be a mutual understanding between you two, and work seamlessly together to achieve a common goal, you will see the wonder that will happen, this is only what Christ came to promote, but human beings, imprisoned in their mystified mentality, choses to continue in the part of mystery.



But there is nothing mysterious about life, humans, animals, and nature in general are the mystery that constitute life, if only we all could work together in unity, only then could we experience the heaven Christ talks about, Christ looks forward to be that centre of gravity, being seem less in love, and can never dissapiont you if you trust in him, he seeks to be that centre of gravity that will bring humanity together in unity and love, pursuing a common goal which surely will leads to the heaven we crave for, everything obeys the law of nature, the purported God, Christ and any other form of god or prophet, obeys the law of nature and can never pass its boundary, so until we all work together in unity, we still have a very long way to go in order to strike the heaven we all seek, and yes the heaven we seeks abode here on earth, and can only be achieve with the collective effort of us all.



Hence I pity, those that have been waiting for the return of Christ, for over a thousand year, to come and take them to a home which they are only being dellussioned exist, lol you still got million of years to wait, untill you work towards creating such a home here on earth.

.stop dreaming, wake up.

.you can't have what you don't work for, you can't live in a home you never built, you can't experience a love you never give, you can't have a peace you never give, your heaven is here, work towards it.

.change begins with you.


Thanks for going patiently through it, what's your take on my response.