"It wasn't after the war that Igbos started moving to other regions in large numbers."

What do you mean large numbers? That is an amorphous statement. Igbos have always lived outside their region so your example of Zik' father living in Zungeru far before Zik was born does not validate the statement "It wasn't after the war that Igbos started moving to other regions in large numbers." What are you specifically saying? Are you saying, more Igbos lived outside Igboland before the war than after the war?

Deadlytruth:

It wasn't after the war that Igbos started moving to other regions in large numbers. Please recall that most prominent Igbo actors of those days like Azikiwe, Ojukwu, Okpara, etc were born and brought up in the North.... meaning that their parents moved to the North to settle before independence. A person like Azikiwe specifically was born in Zungeru in 1904 meaning that his parents moved to settle in the North far before the dawn of 1900 thus before amalgamation.

Ironsi thwarted democracy.

Your response to kingzizzy commentary below was a underwhelming and wishy-washy. It lacked substance and counter-punch.

We agree with you that Nigerian Military thwarted democracy - not just Ironsi thwarted democracy. But that's not the thrust of the debate. The debate is who destroyed Nigeria's nascent federalism. If you analyze Ironsi's and Gowon's administration, you will observe that the successive military administration followed the template of Gowon's administration:

1) state creation which rendered the states near impotent unlike the era of regions;
2) Revenue allocation decree which destroyed fiscal federalism
3) Nationalization of states assets and resources which eliminated the unique differences of each geo-political regions.

=======================================================================================================

You present constitution has states, there were no states during Ironsi's time

Your present constitution does not have resource control, there was full resource control under Ironsi

You present constitution does not have fiscal federalism, there was fiscal federalism under Ironsi

Ironsi was the only military ruler who kept the constitution of Nigeria as close to the independence constitution as possible.

The only thing this unification decree did was unify the civil service.

Only ignorant people say that Ironsi introduced unitary rule in Nigeria

Everybody knows it was Gowon who did that

Uchek:
Ironsi thwarted democracy.

Your response to kingzizzy commentary below was a underwhelming and wishy-washy. It lacked substance and counter-punch.

We agree with you that Nigerian Military thwarted democracy - not just Ironsi thwarted democracy. But that's not the thrust of the debate. The debate is who destroyed Nigeria's nascent federalism. If you analyze Ironsi's and Gowon's administration, you will observe that the successive military administration followed the template of Gowon's administration:

1) state creation which rendered the states near impotent unlike the era of regions;
2) Revenue allocation decree which destroyed fiscal federalism
3) Nationalization of states assets and resources which eliminated the unique differences of each geo-political regions.

=======================================================================================================

You present constitution has states, there were no states during Ironsi's time

Your present constitution does not have resource control, there was full resource control under Ironsi

You present constitution does not have fiscal federalism, there was fiscal federalism under Ironsi

Ironsi was the only military ruler who kept the constitution of Nigeria as close to the independence constitution as possible.

The only thing this unification decree did was unify the civil service.

Only ignorant people say that Ironsi introduced unitary rule in Nigeria

Everybody knows it was Gowon who did that

Stop trying to decieve yourselves
Its very difficult
https://www.nairaland.com/thetranslator/topics

wirinet:


You are beating a dead horse. You can never never wake up their reasoning part of the brain concerning General Ironsi's decree 34. They just can comprehend the meaning of the decree. They even fail to see that General Ironsi took over the WHOLE COUNTRY WITH that decree.

It is not as if I don't know that the only circumstance under which they would have viewed the Unification Decree as destructive of the true federalism we started with at independence is if it were to have been made by a Yoruba, Hausafulani or Midwestern military officer. But as long as it came from the mouth of Ironsi an Igbo man like themselves, be sure that they will never bow to any analysis proving beyond reasonable doubt that the decree in question destroyed federalism.
However, I take the pain to always respond to them not because of they themselves but because of members of other tribes, especially the youthful ones, who might be relatively ignorant of these details hence vulnerable to their deceptive revisionisms. I have a lot of such ignorant youths in my hometown and state of origin who have been made to believe that Igbos are just innocent victims of the wickedness of all other Nigerian ethnicities including ours going by the half truths and outright lies being peddled by IPOB in recent times, and I have been doing a lot to dissolution them with hard contrary and complete facts just as I do online.

theInterpreter:

Stop trying to decieve yourselves
Its very difficult
https://www.nairaland.com/thetranslator/topics

I have run into you guys again when will you stop spreading lies?

Deadlytruth:


It is not as if I don't know that the only circumstance under which they would have viewed the Unification Decree as destructive of the true federalism we started with at independence is if it were to have been made by a Yoruba, Hausafulani or Midwestern military officer. But as long as it came from the mouth of Ironsi an Igbo man like themselves, be sure that they will never bow to any analysis proving beyond reasonable doubt that the decree in question destroyed federalism.
However, I take the pain to always respond to them not because of they themselves but because of members of other tribes, especially the youthful ones, who might be relatively ignorant of these details hence vulnerable to their deceptive revisionisms. I have a lot of such ignorant youths in my hometown and state of origin who have been made to believe that Igbos are just innocent victims of the wickedness of all other Nigerian ethnicities including ours going by the half truths and outright lies being peddled by IPOB in recent times, and I have been doing a lot to dissolution them with hard contrary and complete facts just as I do online.

You again you are here in this thread again with your quest to spread hate and lies

obynzo:


You again you are here in this thread again with your quest to spread hate and lies

Hate and lies you term eternal truths which are self substantiating? Like I have always demanded, tell us what exactly Ironsi meant by referring to the regions as former.

Deadlytruth:


Hate and lies you term eternal truths which are self substantiating? Like I have always demanded, tell us what exactly Ironsi meant by referring to the regions as former.

Bros didn't Gowon repeal the decree? so what is your problem again? you are yet to bring me proof that NCNC moved the their HQ from Lagos to Enugu.

obynzo:

Bros didn't Gowon repeal the decree? so what is your problem again? you are yet to bring me proof that NCNC moved the their HQ from Lagos to Enugu.

How many times do you want to be reminded that Gowon couldn't finish repealing them before Ojukwu began to disrupt everything with his afterthought secession moves? Neither have you been able to show me any proof that the NCNC delegation to Ibadan to mend fences with Awolowo through his wife went officially from Lagos. Then you have not been able to answer the question of whether an ambassadorial position in Biafra wasn't a leadership one. You have also failed to explain why Ironsi chose to centralize the civil service when the crisis on ground was a fall out of battle for alliances between the political class and therefore had absolutely nothing to do with civil servants.

Deadlytruth:

How many times do you want to be reminded that Gowon couldn't finish repealing them before Ojukwu began to disrupt everything with his afterthought secession moves? Neither have you been able to show me any proof that the NCNC delegation to Ibadan to mend fences with Awolowo through his wife went officially from Lagos. Then you have not been able to answer the question of whether an ambassadorial position in Biafra wasn't a leadership one. You have also failed to explain why Ironsi chose to centralize the civil service when the crisis on ground was a fall out of battle for alliances between the political class and therefore had absolutely
nothing to do with civil servants.

Oga bring proof stop being a wise ass. Ambassadorial position has nothing to do with this. Ironsi chose to centralise government to be similar to the central command structure of the army to make governance easier for him.

Show me proof of Zik moving HQ of NCNC to Enugu and it must be a correspondence that shows this.

obynzo:


Oga bring proof stop being a wise ass. Ambassadorial position has nothing to do with this. Ironsi chose to centralise government to be similar to the central command structure of the army to make governance easier for him.

Show me proof of Zik moving HQ of NCNC to Enugu and it must be a correspondence that shows this.

You are talking trash. If you believe your own lie that Ironsi chose to centralize everything for easier governance, then why do your likes demonize all his military successors like Gowon, Murtala Mohammed, Obasanjo, Buhari, IBB, Abacha etc for further centralizing powers and revenue? Didn't they too need ease of governance just like Ironsi purportedly needed? Na only Ironsi need easy things because im be your Igbo brother and all the non-Igbos military rulers dey forbid easy government?
You Igbos should continue thinking that other Nigerian tribes are idiots who can't reason but accept from you any trashy rationalization of your greed and domination agenda driven misdeeds that derailed Nigeria.
You would not address the ambassadorial position because you know deep down in you that it puts paid to the propaganda that Enahoro and Awolowo betrayed Ojukwu.

Deadlytruth:

You are talking trash. If you believe your own lie that Ironsi chose to centralize everything for easier governance, then why do your likes demonize all his military successors like Gowon, Murtala Mohammed, Obasanjo, Buhari, IBB, Abacha etc for further centralizing powers and revenue? Didn't they too need ease of governance just like Ironsi purportedly needed? Na only Ironsi need easy things because im be your Igbo brother and all the non-Igbos military rulers dey forbid easy government?
You Igbos should continue thinking that other Nigerian tribes are idiots who can't reason but accept from you any trashy rationalization of your greed and domination agenda driven misdeeds that derailed Nigeria.
You would not address the ambassadorial position because you know deep down in you that it puts paid to the propaganda that Enahoro and Awolowo betrayed Ojukwu.

Oga I will not go through this baseless arguments with you. Just bring proof of how the HQ if NCNC was moved from Lagos to Enugu. And it must be proper documentation and not foolish inferences.

Deadlytruth:

You are talking trash. If you believe your own lie that Ironsi chose to centralize everything for easier governance, then why do your likes demonize all his military successors like Gowon, Murtala Mohammed, Obasanjo, Buhari, IBB, Abacha etc for further centralizing powers and revenue? Didn't they too need ease of governance just like Ironsi purportedly needed? Na only Ironsi need easy things because im be your Igbo brother and all the non-Igbos military rulers dey forbid easy government?
You Igbos should continue thinking that other Nigerian tribes are idiots who can't reason but accept from you any trashy rationalization of your greed and domination agenda driven misdeeds that derailed Nigeria.
You would not address the ambassadorial position because you know deep down in you that it puts paid to the propaganda that Enahoro and Awolowo betrayed Ojukwu.

It is obvious you are here to spread hate against igbos. In your mind you think you have sense right. Ironsi made that decision during his time because ot was convenient for him so it is not because he is my igbo brother as you foolishly retorted. Which begs the question the quasi federal structure we have today is a product of Gowon's government. The revenue sharing formula all started from Gowon's government with the support of Awolowo as finance minister. So why do you chose to blame Ironsi, but chose to ignore the fact that Gowon repealed the same Ironsi's decree it never lasted beyond July 66.

obynzo:


It is obvious you are here to spread hate against igbos. In your mind you think you have sense right. Ironsi made that decision during his time because ot was convenient for him so it is not because he is my igbo brother as you foolishly retorted. Which begs the question the quasi federal structure we have today is a product of Gowon's government. The revenue sharing formula all started from Gowon's government with the support of Awolowo as finance minister. So why do you chose to blame Ironsi, but chose to ignore the fact that Gowon repealed the same Ironsi's decree it never lasted beyond July 66.

It is obvious you're the foolish one here who would always continue to stick to a line of argument without addressing a poser already in place countering that very line. Before you whitewash Ironsi further, why don't you address the fact that by taking over power illegally and then tampering with a people's sovereign constitution in the first instance, he had violated the oath of office he solemnly took on the day of his inauguration as army GOC to protect and defend that constitution at all times and in all circumstances and that such criminality and abuse of power by him opened the doors of the military rascality and the attendant progressive destruction of our federalism by all the other rulers, both military and civilian, that came after him? How many times do you want it to be drummed into your ears that if Ojukwu had never started his afterthought Biafra agitation, Gowon would have completed his abrogation of all Ironsi's fraudulent and Igbo domination agenda dtiven centripetal and anti-federalism decrees thus retuning Nigeria to the truly federal status quo ante to the benefit of all of us today and the avoidance of the Biafra War which cost Nigeria over 3 million innocent civilian lives?
If it was convenient for Ironsi to topple a democratically elected government and introduce military rule as you would have us believe, then by what standards do your hypocritic likes assume that it shouldn't have as well been convenient for the likes of Gowon, IBB, OBJ, Murtala Mohammed, etc who even didn't topple democratically elected governments to make centripetal decrees and tamper with the no-longer-sovereign constitution which they inherited from Ironsi and Ojukwu his brother?

obynzo:


Oga I will not go through this baseless arguments with you. Just bring proof of how the HQ if NCNC was moved from Lagos to Enugu. And it must be proper documentation and not foolish inferences.

Is this the proof I asked you to provide for your idiotic claim that Azikiwe's envoy position in Biafra wasn't a leadership role?

Deadlytruth:
It is obvious you're the foolish one here who would always continue to stick to a line of argument without addressing a poser already in place countering that very line. Before you whitewash Ironsi further, why don't you address the fact that by taking over power illegally and then tampering with a people's sovereign constitution in the first instance, he had violated the oath of office he solemnly took on the day of his inauguration as army GOC to protect and defend that constitution at all times and in all circumstances and that such criminality and abuse of power by him opened the doors of the military rascality and the attendant progressive destruction of our federalism by all the other rulers, both military and civilian, that came after him? How many times do you want it to be drummed into your ears that if Ojukwu had never started his afterthought Biafra agitation, Gowon would have completed his abrogation of all Ironsi's fraudulent and Igbo domination agenda dtiven centripetal and anti-federalism decrees thus retuning Nigeria to the status quo to the benefit of all of us today and the avoidance of the Biafra War which cost Nigeria over 3 million innocent civilian lives?
If it was convenient for Ironsi to topple a democratically elected government and introduce military rule as you would have us believe, then by what standards do your hypocritic likes assume that it shouldn't have as well been convenient for the likes of Gowon, IBB, OBJ, Murtala Mohammed, etc to me who didn't even topple democratically elected governments to make centripetal decrees and tamper with the no-longer-sovereign constitution which they inherited from Ironsi and Ojukwu his brother?

Oga stop being foolish and dense. why blame Ironsi for a decree that never even took effect. Gowon repealed the decree if Gowon was sincere why didn't he practice federalism. The truth is that people are now seeing that blaming igbos is already stale.
My guy go and get a decent job, your paymasters would be displeased because the plan to spread hare is dead on arrival. Ironsi only ruled for six months and you cannot ascribe any human rights abuses or violations to him, he allowed press freedom he never censored the press like your heroes.
Dude go and get a job and get a life your obsession to paint Ironsi and Igbos black has failed. As for Ojukwu i do not blame him he did what was best at that time as the military governor of the old Eastern Region so you may as well hug transformer.

Deadlytruth:


Is this the proof I asked you to provide for your idiotic claim that Azikiwe's envoy position in Biafra wasn't a leadership role?

Oga answer the question i asked you and stop being a wise ass

kingzizzy:


The unification decree did not tamper with resource control, it did not change the revenue allocation formular, it did not remove fiscal federalism, it recognised the 4 Region's

So how did this decree introduce unitary rule?

The only thing this decree did was unify the public service workers

The unification decree subjected all the regions to the Federal (Military) government. Before that all regions appeared autonomously from the FG.

It was only a matter of time before Ironsi started making the East dominate the country. This was someone that couldn't detain the coup plotters. He obviously had an agenda

Tribalism must be a kind of mental illness. How could Ironsi have abolished regions but retained the same regions that were abolished

Deadlytruth:
It is obvious you're the foolish one here who would always continue to stick to a line of argument without addressing a poser already in place countering that very line. Before you whitewash Ironsi further, why don't you address the fact that by taking over power illegally and then tampering with a people's sovereign constitution in the first instance, he had violated the oath of office he solemnly took on the day of his inauguration as army GOC to protect and defend that constitution at all times and in all circumstances and that such criminality and abuse of power by him opened the doors of the military rascality and the attendant progressive destruction of our federalism by all the other rulers, both military and civilian, that came after him? How many times do you want it to be drummed into your ears that if Ojukwu had never started his afterthought Biafra agitation, Gowon would have completed his abrogation of all Ironsi's fraudulent and Igbo domination agenda dtiven centripetal and anti-federalism decrees thus retuning Nigeria to the truly federal status quo ante to the benefit of all of us today and the avoidance of the Biafra War which cost Nigeria over 3 million innocent civilian lives?
If it was convenient for Ironsi to topple a democratically elected government and introduce military rule as you would have us believe, then by what standards do your hypocritic likes assume that it shouldn't have as well been convenient for the likes of Gowon, IBB, OBJ, Murtala Mohammed, etc who even didn't topple democratically elected governments to make centripetal decrees and tamper with the no-longer-sovereign constitution which they inherited from Ironsi and Ojukwu his brother?

Gowon took over in August of 1966, Ojukwu declared Biafra on May 30th 1967. You mean that Gowon could not "complete his abrogation of all Ironsi's fraudulent and Igbo domination agenda " in 9 months? Something can be done in a day with one announcement in military regime?

And what did you Gowon eventually do? He announced Decree 14 which abolished all 4 Regulations, created 12 new states in its place, took away resource control and abrogated fiscal federalism

Gowons Decree 14 of 1967 was a hundred times worse than Ironsi's Decree 34. The only thing about Gowons case is that he was a Northerner while Ironsi was an Easterner. Had Ironsi been a Northerner, you would not be talking about Decree 34 today same as you can never talk about Gowons Decree 14

gidgiddy:


Gowon took over in August of 1966, Ojukwu declared Biafra on May 30th 1967. You mean that Gowon could not "complete his abrogation of all Ironsi's fraudulent and Igbo domination agenda " in 9 months? Something can be done in a day with one announcement in military regime?
And what did you Gowon eventually do? He announced Decree 14 which abolished all 4 Regulations, created 12 new states in its place, took away resource control and abrogated fiscal federalism

Gowons Decree 14 of 1967 was a hundred times worse than Ironsi's Decree 34. The only thing about Gowons case is that he was a Northerner while Ironsi was an Easterner. Had Ironsi been a Northerner, you would not be talking about Decree 34 today same as you can never talk about Gowons Decree 14

Gowon took over August 2, 1966 but before then, Northern mobs had already commenced a retaliatory massacre of Igbos in major Northern cities over the January 15 1966 coup which saw the gruesome murder of the North's highly revered political leaders amidst the irony of the escape onto safety or the sparing of Igbo political leaders who dominated the Balewa government whose alleged misgovernance and corruption was cited as the premise for the bloody coup. These killings purportedly promted Ojukwu to start demanding a renegotiated Nigeria while Gowon was already in the process of abrogation of Ironsi's fraudulent decrees. Gowon had to pause his refederalization process to honour Ojukwu's demand for a renegotiated Nigeria hence he hurriedly convoked Aburi meeting which ended up hitting the rocks on account of its proposals being rejected by the sovereign civil populace of Nigeria due to its extremely confederal nature as opposed to the just federal structure they were already used to and was actually working for them before Ironsi misadventured into politics and took it away from them. Being occupied with all these Ojukwu's distraction which all began few days after Gowon assumed office, Gowon lost focus from his refederalization project and that explains why he couldn't complete it. If you think that decrees could be reversed or made overnight, then you need to explain why it took Ironsi up till May 24 1966 to come up with his own Unification, Anti-secession, Anti-tribal Associations, Anti- political gatherings, etc Decrees despite taking over power four months earlier on.

Per the other issues you raised; I have already repeatedly addressed them in many other threads with you without you being able to counter me with superior reason.
I have stated clearly that Gowon's states creation was not out of place considering the fact that even during Balewa's time, agitation for the creation of more regions/states had started and aimed at giving the non-Wazobians both in the North and South some level of self rule thus freedom from Wazobia domination. There was just no way the regions would have remained four till today. Even the youngest and smallest Midwestern Region was already billed to be, in the nearest future, split into new Regions along the lines of Benin and Warri Provinces which have become separate Edo and Delta States today. So how much more with the yet untouched, older and far bigger Northern and Eastern Regions of that period? What therefore really mattered wasn't whether Gowon created one billion states or that Ironsi created one trillion Provinces out of the regions but that how autonomous they allowed them to be in the spirit of true federalism already in place beginning from independence. Even you yourself can't deny the fact that Gowon's states were far more autonomous than Ironsi's Provinces, and that is the premise on which the argument that Ironsi crippled federalism in Nigeria is based and also that Ojukwu thwarted the chances of restoring it at the earliest possible opportunity that presented itself.
Come to think about it; Ironsi created 35 Provinces which boundaries coincide 90% with those of the present 36 states but they were rejected and Ironsi killed for that. But Ironsi"s successors ended up creating 36 states which nearly almost reflect the boundaries of Ironsi's Provinces but we are happy with it today. Shouldn't that tell you that Nigerians were never against creation of more subnational units? What then made Ironsi's own creation of more subnational units so offensive, annoying and rejected?
Answer: He stripped them 100% of their autonomy and took away their civil service institutions to himself at the center therefore converting Nigeria to his private company by asking all the governors of those provinces to be reporting to him at the center thus making himself a godfather of the whole of Nigeria which otherwise started as a world class model system of people centred democracy.

Note that while Ironsi was running the country as a federal military government between January 17 1966 and May 24 same year, nobody thought of toppling his government let alone plot a coup to that end because the regions were still autonomous despite being under military rule. But immediately he made the centripetal decrees which converted Nigeria to a national (unitary) military government on May 24 same year and made it clear that such structure would be retained into the civilian government he would hand over to; that was the beginning of trouble. He himself knew it was unacceptable hence began a nationwide tour to convince the civil populace and force them to accept it should persuasion fail. He met his waterloo in that tour of trying to force unitary system down the throats of a people used to federalism already.

Deadlytruth:


Gowon took over August 2, 1966 but before then, Northern mobs had already commenced a retaliatory massacre of Igbos in major Northern cities over the January 15 1966 coup which saw the gruesome murder of the North's highly revered political leaders amidst the irony of the escape onto safety or the sparing of Igbo political leaders who dominated the Balewa government whose alleged misgovernance and corruption was cited as the premise for the bloody coup. These killings promted Ojukwu to start demanding a renegotiated Nigeria while Gowon was already in the process of abrogation of Ironsi's fraudulent decrees. Gowon had to pause his refederalization process to honour Ojukwu's demand for a renegotiated Nigeria hence the hurriedly convoked Aburi meeting which ended up hitting the rocks on account of its proposals being rejected by the sovereign civil populace of Nigeria due to its extremely confederal nature as opposed to the just federal structure they were already used to and was actually working for them before Ironsi misadventured into politics and took it away from them. Being occupied with all these Ojukwu's distraction with which began few days after Gowon assumed office, Gowon lost focus from his refederalization process and that explains why Gowon couldn't complete it. If you think that decrees could be reversed or made overnight, then you need to explain why it took till May 24 1966 to come up with his own Unification, Anti-secession, Anti-tribal Associations, Anti- political gatherings, etc Decrees despite taking over power as far back as January 17 same year.

Per the other issues you raised; I have already repeatedly addressed them in many other threads with you without you being able to counter me with superior reason.
I have stated clearly that Gowon's states creation was not out of place considering the fact that even during Balewa's time, agitation for the creation of more regions/states had started and aimed at giving the non-Wazobians both in the North and South some level of self rule thus freedom from Wazobia domination. There was just no way the regions would have remained four till today. Even the youngest Midwestern Region was already billed to be, in the nearest future, split into new Regios along the lines of Benin and Warri Provinces which have become separate Edo and Delta States today. So how much more with the yet untouched Northern and Eastern Regions of that period? What therefore really mattered wasn't whether Gowon created one billion states or that Ironsi created one trillion Provinces out of the regions but that how autonomous they allowed them to be in the spirit of true federalism already in place beginning from independence. Even you yourself can't deny the fact that Gowon's states were far more autonomous than Ironsi's Provinces, and that is the premise on which the argument that Ironsi crippled federalism in Nigeria is based and also that Ojukwu thwarted the chances of restoring it at earliest possible opportunity.
Come to think about it; Ironsi created 35 Provinces which boundaries coincide 90% to those of the present 36 but it was rejected and Ironsi killed for that. But Ironsi"s successors ended up creating 36 states which nearly almost reflect the boundaries of Ironsi's Provinces but we are happy with it today. Shouldn't that tell you that Nigerians were never against creation of more subnational units? What then made Ironsi's own creation of more subnational units so offensive and annoying?
Answer: He stripped them 100% of their autonomy and took away their civil service institutions to himself at the center and therefore converting Nigeria to his private company by asking all the governors of those provinces to be reporting to him at the center thus making himself a godfather of the whole of Nigeria.

You seem to be making so much excuses for Gowon. Gowon could not abrogate Ironsi's Decree 34 in 9 months, Aburi was alien to the people but state creation was not, the people were happy to see Gowon take away resource control. Excuse after excuse

Every thing to make Gowon look good. The problem is that history cannot be changed, it is what it is. You are actually defending Gowon for creating states and calling out Ironsi for Decree 34?

History is history. Gowon met 4 Regions when he took over from Ironsi and he turned those 4 Regions into 12 states. The Northern Region alone got 6 of those 12 new states. Can you imagine what would have happened if Ironsi had announced that he was dissolving the 4 Regions, replacing them with 12 new states and that his Eastern Region would get half of those states? The rest of Nigeria would have gone to war. But Gowon did the same and nobody saud anything because Gowon is a Northerner

Gowon met 4 Regions that were controlling their resources, he subdivided the 4 Regions into 12 states, then placed resource control in the hands of the federal government

Gowon met fiscal federalism, a system whereby the 4 Regions controlled their resources and paid 30% tax to the federal government. Gowon reversed that so the federal government controlled the resources and paid the 12 new states whatever the federal government felt like. To this day, all states still run to the federal government for monthly subvention, a system brought by Gowon

It becomes clear to anyone who reads Nigerian history that Gowon singlehandedly destroyed Regionalism and federalism

Decree 34 was never the problem, the problem was that Ironsi was an Igbo man. Gowons Decree 14 was a hundred times worse than Ironsi's Decree 34, but Gowon got away with it because he is a Northerner

gidgiddy:


You seem to be making so much excuses for Gowon. Gowon could not abrogate Ironsi's Decree 34 in 9 months, Aburi was alien to the people but state creation was not, the people were happy to see Gowon take away resource control. Excuse after excuse

Every thing to make Gowon look good. The problem is that history cannot be changed, it is what it is. You are actually defending Gowon for creating states and calling out Ironsi for Decree 34?

History is history. Gowon met 4 Regions when he took over from Ironsi and he turned those 4 Regions into 12 states. The Northern Region alone got 6 of those 12 new states. Can you imagine what would have happened if Ironsi had announced that he was dissolving the 4 Regions, replacing them with 12 new states and that his Eastern Region would get half of those states? The rest of Nigeria would have gone to war. But Gowon did the same and nobody saud anything because Gowon is a Northerner

Gowon met 4 Regions that were controlling their resources, he subdivided the 4 Regions into 12 states, then placed resource control in the hands of the federal government

Gowon met fiscal federalism, a system whereby the 4 Regions controlled their resources and paid 30% tax to the federal government. Gowon reversed that so the federal government controlled the resources and paid the 12 new states whatever the federal government felt like. To this day, all states still run to the federal government for monthly subvention, a system brought by Gowon

It becomes clear to anyone who reads Nigerian history that Gowon singlehandedly destroyed Regionalism and federalism

Decree 34 was never the problem, the problem was that Ironsi was an Igbo man. Gowons Decree 14 was a hundred times worse than Ironsi's Decree 34, but Gowon got away with it because he is a Northerner

Apart from your perpetual attempts to paint Ironsi as 100% innocent of the destruction of federalism in Nigeria,
youu seem not to understand the meaning of the words you use. First and foremost, if Ironsi had respected himself by way fulfilling his solemnly sworn oath of office before the eyes of the whole universe to protect and defend the truly federal Independence constitution and in so doing simply sworn in Dipcharima as Balewa's replacement, replaced the slain Premiers (Akintola and Amadu Bello) with their deputies, arraigned Nzeogwu, Adegboyega, Don Okafor, Nwaobosi, Nwatuegwu and Ifeajuna before a military tribunal for killing national leaders, shedding the bloods of innocent military officers far senior to them and also the bloods of the pregnant wives of some of these figures along with their unborn babies, and then returned to the barracks as a professional soldier and career military officer; do you think the Gowon you love to blame 100% for the death of true federalism would have ever come to power let alone kill federalism as you love to erroneously assume? Or would Dipcharima have started tampering with that truly federal constitution if Ironsi had sworn him in as required by the very constitution he swore before the whole world to defend in all , I mean all circumstances? Be honest!
What on earth was Ironsi's fucking business with power? Which part of the constitution he swore to defend gave him the power to seize power from the civilians and then impose himself on the nation? What are you even trying to say?
Exactly who and who as members of the public complained to Ironsi about the constitution to warrant him first tampering with it? When did he conduct a public hearing in which Nigerians told him they were no longer satisfied with the independence constitution? The crisis on ground was a normal stage in the democratic evolution of any young nation and in fact was all about how politicians were forming alliances just like the defections and counter defections and realignments between APC and PDP members today. Nothing in it was directly connected with the constitution, so what exactly attracted Ironsi to the constitution if not a dubious objective up his sleeves? For the life of me I still can't phantom how a near illiterate GOC who took over power through the back door believed he knew better about nation building than a group of over 100 duly elected graduates of some of the world's most prestigious universities who put their heads together through sleepless nights in London and came out with a constitution that guaranteed equitable distribution of power and resources, citizenship dignity, fairness and a structure that encourages healthy competition and rapid industrialization. What an idiot of a man Ironsi was! Why did he even touch the Independence Constitution at all in the first instance? Was he among those who drafted it? Even the far younger Nzeogwu, Adegboyega, Ifeajuna, etc never had it in their plan to tamper with the independence constitution in an event their coup succeeded? So what exactly was Ironsi's beef with a well thought out constitution that was the toast of everyone?

Gowon didn't take away resource control contrary to your insinuation. Ironsi did so through his centralization of the four regional civil service institutions. In introductory Government in SS1 we all learnt that the civil service is the only legal means through which a government gathers her revenues, deploys same for projects and payment of contractors. In essence the civil service is government and government is the civil service. So by centralizing the regional civil services, Ironsi had automatically centralized all sources of revenue. Ask yourself how possible it is for a federal civil servant working in Onitsha to remit to the Anambra State government the taxes he collects in Onitsha? Don't you know that in his May 24 national broadcast Ironsi ordered that from henceforth all former civil servants of the former regions should see themselves as national civil servants? So after becoming national civil servants, to which tier of government would they be making remittances of revenues generated from taxes, mineral resources, agricultural produce, etc ? This is common sense and simple logic na! Haba! Even a Kindergarten school baby would easily reason out this deduction. Do you term as resource control a situation whereby all civil servants are made to make remittances to the center? Aren't Wike, Sanwolu, etc. currently arguing that remittance of VAT collected by FIRS offices in all the 36 states to the FG violates true federalism?
That exactly was the kind of situation Ironsi instituted. Or how else was Ironsi planning to be paying the salaries of the now centralized civil servants if they were still to continue making remittances to the regional governors as you claim? It is like the FG directing the FIRS staff in every state to remit their VAT collections to the respective governors and at the end of the month the FG would still pay the salaries of those FIRS staff. Where on earth does that happen? Where do you think the FG will get such money from to sustain such insane policy? Or are you suggesting that Ironsi was such a dullardino? Civil service is the engine room of government and if you strip any government of it you have sent that government into extinction. Imagine Abuja taking over the Anambra State Civ Service now; what government will Obiano be able to run anymore? Your argument is analogous to a car mechanic who removes the engine of your car and argues that as long as he didn't materially tamper with tthe body and external appearance, then nothing has really changed about your car hence you have to accept it and start using it again. Will you accept such argument from your mechanic?

Deadlytruth:

Apart from your perpetual attempts to paint Ironsi as 100% innocent of the destruction of federalism in Nigeria,
youu seem not to understand the meaning of the words you use. First and foremost, if Ironsi had respected himself by way fulfilling his solemnly sworn oath of office before the eyes of the whole universe to protect and defend the truly federal Independence constitution and in so doing simply sworn in Dipcharima as Balewa's replacement, replaced the slain Premiers (Akintola and Amadu Bello) with their deputies, arraigned Nzeogwu, Adegboyega, Don Okafor, Nwaobosi, Nwatuegwu and Ifeajuna before a military tribunal for killing national leaders, shedding the bloods of innocent military officers far senior to them and also the bloods of the pregnant wives of some of these figures along with their unborn babies, and then returned to the barracks as a professional soldier and career military officer; do you think the Gowon you love to blame 100% for the death of true federalism would have ever come to power let alone kill federalism as you love to erroneously assume? Or would Dipcharima have started tampering with that truly federal constitution if Ironsi had sworn him in as required by the very constitution he swore before the whole world to defend in all , I mean all circumstances? Be honest!
What on earth was Ironsi's fucking business with power? Which part of the constitution he swore to defend gave him the power to seize power from the civilians and then impose himself on the nation? What are you even trying to say?
Exactly who and who as members of the public complained to Ironsi about the constitution to warrant him first tampering with it? When did he conduct a public hearing in which Nigerians told him they were no longer satisfied with the independence constitution? The crisis on ground was a normal stage in the democratic evolution of any young nation and in fact was all about how politicians were forming alliances just like the defections and counter defections and realignments between APC and PDP members today. Nothing in it was directly connected with the constitution, so what exactly attracted Ironsi to the constitution if not a dubious objective up his sleeves? For the life of me I still can't phantom how a near illiterate GOC who took over power through the back door believed he knew better about nation building than a group of over 100 duly elected graduates of some of the world's most prestigious universities who put their heads together through sleepless nights in London and came out with a constitution that guaranteed equitable distribution of power and resources, citizenship dignity, fairness and a structure that encourages healthy competition and rapid industrialization. What an idiot of a man Ironsi was! Why did he even touch the Independence Constitution at all in the first instance? Was he among those who drafted it? Even the far younger Nzeogwu, Adegboyega, Ifeajuna, etc never had it in their plan to tamper with the independence constitution in an event their coup succeeded? So what exactly was Ironsi's beef with a well thought out constitution that was the toast of everyone?

Gowon didn't take away resource control contrary to your insinuation. Ironsi did so through his centralization of the four regional civil service institutions. In introductory Government in SS1 we all learnt that the civil service is the only legal means through which a government gathers her revenues, deploys same for projects and payment of contractors. In essence the civil service is government and government is the civil service. So by centralizing the regional civil services, Ironsi had automatically centralized all sources of revenue. Ask yourself how possible it is for a federal civil servant working in Onitsha to remit to the Anambra State government the taxes he collects in Onitsha? Don't you know that in his May 24 national broadcast Ironsi ordered that from henceforth all former civil servants of the former regions should see themselves as national civil servants? So after becoming national civil servants, to which tier of government would they be making remittances of revenues generated from taxes, mineral resources, agricultural produce, etc ? This is common sense and simple logic na! Haba! Even a Kindergarten school baby would easily reason out this deduction. Do you term as resource control a situation whereby all civil servants are made to make remittances to the center? Aren't Wike, Sanwolu, etc. currently arguing that remittance of VAT collected by FIRS offices in all the 36 states to the FG violates true federalism?
That exactly was the kind of situation Ironsi instituted. Or how else was Ironsi planning to be paying the salaries of the now centralized civil servants if they were still to continue making remittances to the regional governors as you claim? It is like the FG directing the FIRS staff in every state to remit their VAT collections to the respective governors and at the end of the month the FG would still pay the salaries of those FIRS staff. Where on earth does that happen? Where do you think the FG will get such money from to sustain such insane policy? Or are you suggesting that Ironsi was such a dullardino? Civil service is the engine room of government and if you strip any government of it you have sent that government into extinction. Imagine Abuja taking over the Anambra State Civ Service now; what government will Obiano be able to run anymore? Your argument is analogous to a car mechanic who removes the engine of your car and argues that as long as he didn't materially tamper with tthe body and external appearance, then nothing has really changed about your car hence you have to accept it and start using it again. Will you accept such argument from your mechanic?

Goal Post shifter. There was hardly any country in Africa that did not have military coups in 60's, 70's and 80's. There was even a military coup the other day. Your current President, Mumu Buhari overthrew the democratically elected regime of Shagari in 1983. He suspended the Nigerian constitution and ruled by Decree for almost 2 years. You Nigerians saw no problem with electing the same Buhari as a civilian ruler in 2015 and 2019.

And you people are talking about Ironsi not handing over to Dipcharima in 1966? But you elected a renowned coup plotter as your president today?

You are still talking about Ironsi's Decree 34 that recognised the 4 Regions of the time, but never talk about the many Decrees of future Northern military leaders that created the 36 states we have today?

Talking about Ironsi centralizing the civil service but never saying that he maintained the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence which gave each Region up to 70% of what was realised there?

As I always say, Ironsi's only problem was being an Igbo man. All the military rulers who came after him were all Northerners, and they did far worse than he did.

But people like you only remember Decree 34 because Ironsi was Igbo. Gowon's Decree 14 was so bad that it makes Ironsi look like a hero. But Gowon is a Northerner and his Decree 14 can never be discussed because it would expose the fact Ironsi was a much better man

gidgiddy:



Goal Post shifter.

I can't see how I shifted any goalpost. I only exposed how Ironsi's lawlessness, disrespect for a sovereign agreement made by all Nigerians and his violation of the oath of office he himself freely took led Nigeria astray thereby opening the door to all the lawlessness that we have in Nigeria till today. Unfortunately you couldn't answer the simple question I asked you as to whether Nigeria would have been derailed if Ironsi had chosen the part of honour rather than that of greed and hidden agenda.

gidgiddy:


There was hardly any country in Africa that did not have military coups in 60's, 70's and 80's. There was even a military coup the other day.

So you have now shifted the goalpost to justifying Ironsi's derailment of Nigeria with the occurrence of coups in other countries yet you hypoctically took Buhari to the cleaners for staging a coup just like it was happening in other countries according to you. Can't you see that you are already speaking from two sides of your mouth at the same time. What an interesting self contradiction!

Nothing whatsoever justified a coup in Nigeria because as at independence Nigeria was visioned to become one of the world powers given the system of governance in practice, the available human and natural resources and the rapidly growing population all of which stood Nigeria very tall above the other mushroom African countries you choose to disingenuously compare Nigeria with. In fact as of then the Nigerian currency was the second strongest worldwide as an indication of the position of the country in the committee of nations. Nigeria was truly the giant of Africa which should lead other countries by example and as the big brother of all other African countries it should have even taken it upon itself to always send soldiers dethrone military governments and restore democracy in whichever African countries soldiers came to power through coups. But Ironsi's style of leadership as GOC made a mess of such such supposed prestigious status by introducing military rule into the same Nigeria that should checkmate militarism all over Africa.

gidgiddy:


Your current President, Mumu Buhari overthrew the democratically elected regime of Shagari in 1983. He suspended the Nigerian constitution and ruled by Decree for almost 2 years. You Nigerians saw no problem with electing the same Buhari as a civilian ruler in 2015 and 2019.

Just like you Igbos gave bloc votes in 1999 to Obasanjo who was put forward by the Babangida that annuled the mandate of a democratically elected president in 1993 thus making you Igbos actually indirectly voting for IBB who suspended the constitution and ruled with decrees for 8 years. In addition the Igbo members of the Senate in 2007 voted as Senate president the very David Mark who threatened to shoot MKO the symbol of democratic struggle. If you Igbos could collude with the militaristic Northern Oligarchy in 1999 to recycle a product of the military establishment which incessantly interfered with democracy to your rejection of the Olu Falae who was the candidate of the NADECO that championed the fight which restored democracy, how then on earth do you have the moral authority to condemn other Nigerians from voting for Buhari who is as well a part of that military establishment? I thought they say he who comes to equity must come with clean hands?

gidgiddy:


And you people are talking about Ironsi not handing over to Dipcharima in 1966? But you elected a renowned coup plotter as your president today?

Ironsi removed a government founded on a truly we-the-people constitution hence his offense remains worse than Buhari who took power from a government founded on a constitution drafted and stagemanaged by the military establishment. Aren't we all complaining today that the 1999 constitution which is more or less a replication of the 1979 constitution is not a truly Nigerian people's constitution but a military document which should be discarded and replaced with the independence constitution if Nigeria is to make progress? If Buhari sacked Shagari's government which was built on a military document, can you really claim he truncated democracy unlike Ironsi who sacked a government founded on a constitution drafted by the Nigerian people's themselves? Are you comparing apples and oranges?

gidgiddy:

You are still talking about Ironsi's Decree 34 that recognised the 4 Regions of the time, but never talk about the many Decrees of future Northern military leaders that created the 36 states we have tttoday ?about Ironsi centralizing the civil service but never saying that he maintained the revenue sharing formular agreed at independence which gave each Region up to 70% of what was realised there?

tSo we should leave Ironsi's Decree 34 which open the doors to all the other decrees you now complain about? You mean Ironsi recognized the same regionihe kept on referring to as ' former rregions' in his decrees? Where exactly do you get your own dictionary from?

gidgiddy:

As I always say, Ironsi's only problem was being an Igbo man. All the military rulers who came after him were all Northerners, and they did far worse than he did.

Ironsi's problem was that he set a very bad example and refused to listen to public opinion. He dsubverted a constitution he swore to defend unlike all the others who never swore any oath to defend any constitution. Morever, Ironsi seized power from a genuinely democratic government unlike the others who tool powesrs from military or quasi military governments like themselves.

gidgiddy:

But people like you only remember Decree 34 because Ironsi was Igbo. Gowon's Decree 14 was so bad that it makes Ironsi look like a hero. But Gowon is a Northerner and his Decree 14 can never be discussed because it would expose the fact Ironsi was a much better man [

Ironsi's Decree 34 set the stage for all the other lawlessness that followed. As an Igbo man, he refused to punish the coup plotters . He also surrounded himself with Igbo advisers like Newokedi and Nwabueze/quote]

obynzo:


Oga answer the question i asked you and stop being a wise ass

You are just an idiot. Was the envoy position Ojukwu gave Zik in Biafra not a leadership role? Why have you been avoiding this simple question?

obynzo:


Oga stop being foolish and dense. why blame Ironsi for a decree that never even took effect. Gowon repealed the decree if Gowon was sincere why didn't he practice federalism. The truth is that people are now seeing that blaming igbos is already stale.
My guy go and get a decent job, your paymasters would be displeased because the plan to spread hare is dead on arrival. Ironsi only ruled for six months and you cannot ascribe any human rights abuses or violations to him, he allowed press freedom he never censored the press like your heroes.
Dude go and get a job and get a life your obsession to paint Ironsi and Igbos black has failed. As for Ojukwu i do not blame him he did what was best at that time as the military governor of the old Eastern Region so you may as well hug transformer.

Just listen to yourself: ".... Ironsi's Decree never took effect"? Please which bush school did you attend where you were taught that decrees don't come into force with immediate effect? So Ironsi, a military junta and dictator, made a Decree on May 24 and it didn't take effect till July 29 (three months 5 days) that he died? I can't believe I have been engaging a coconut head all this while?
Yes by allowing the coup plotters walk free after killing their superiors in cold blood, Ironsi didn't abuse human rights. By arresting and securing death sentence for Isaac Boro and killing over 100 of his soldiers for the 'crime" of seeking Niger Deltans self determination (a right recognized by the UN) Ironsi didn't abuse human rights. You are just a victim of moronic plague.
So on the part of Ojukwu, seeking secession hypocritically as Eastern Region Governor after assisting Ironsi to promulgate Anti-secession Decree just few months back as Eastern Region Governor was what he thought as the best? To you hypocrisy and inconsistency is the best lifestyle to live?

Deadlytruth:


Just listen to yourself: ".... Ironsi's Decree never took effect"? Please which bush school did you attend where you were taught that decrees don't come into force with immediate effect? So Ironsi, a military junta and dictator, made a Decree on May 24 and it didn't take effect till July 29 (three months 5 days) that he died? I can't believe I have been engaging a coconut head all this while?
Yes by allowing the coup plotters walk free after killing their superiors in cold blood, Ironsi didn't abuse human rights. By arresting and securing death sentence for Isaac Boro and killing over 100 of his soldiers for the 'crime" of seeking Niger Deltans self determination (a right recognized by the UN) Ironsi didn't abuse human rights. You are just a victim of moronic plague.
So on the part of Ojukwu, seeking secession hypocritically as Eastern Region Governor after assisting Ironsi to promulgate Anti-secession Decree just few months back as Eastern Region Governor was what he thought as the best? To you hypocrisy and inconsistency is the best lifestyle to live?

Bros the attack on Boro was way before Ironsi's unitary decree took place. he was killed while he was tour to see traditional chiefs in each region on the unitary decree. He did what he did because there was no basis for Boro doing what he did. Mind you Boro was being used by Tafawa Balewa to create a state of emergency in the eastern region, when Jan 66 happened and he saw his benefactor was killed he went ahead with the plan and Ironsi dispatched solders from Ejoor's batallion in Enugu to quell it. So bros you are too desperate to make a point. My advice go and get a tangible worthwhile job to do instead of coming online to spread hate against ndigbo. we know our history and we will always counter you. just go and rest you have lost this one dude.

Deadlytruth:

You are just an idiot. Was the envoy position Ojukwu gave Zik in Biafra not a leadership role? Why have you been avoiding this simple question?

I am not surprised by your insults only a simpleton would do this when they have nothing reasonable to counter with.

Deadlytruth:

You are just an idiot. Was the envoy position Ojukwu gave Zik in Biafra not a leadership role? Why have you been avoiding this simple question?

Oga to answer your question is the Nigerian envoy to the UN a leadership position? Bros you are just a fool honestly, I thought you were intelligent, but now I see that your hatred for the igbo has clouded your brain.