Hellfire—Is It Part of Divine Justice?

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Have you ever seen someone tortured? We hope not. Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent. What, though, of torture inflicted by God? Can you imagine such a thing? Yet, this is exactly what is implied by the teaching of hellfire, an official doctrine in many religions.
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Imagine, for a moment, the following horrific scene: A person is being roasted on a hot iron plate. In his agony he screams for mercy, but nobody listens. The torture goes on and on, hour after hour, day after day—without pause!
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Whatever crime the victim may have committed, would not your heart go out to him? What of the one who ordered the torture? Could he be a loving person? In no way! Love is merciful and shows pity. A loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them!
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Nevertheless, many religions teach that God tortures sinners in an eternal hellfire. This, it is claimed, is divine justice. If that is true, who created that terrible place of eternal torment? And who is responsible for the excruciating agonies inflicted there? The answers would seem obvious. If such a place really exists, then God would have to be the creator of it, and he would be responsible for what happens there. Can you accept that?
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The Bible says: “God is love.” (1 John 4: Would a God of love inflict torture that even humans with any measure of decency find revolting? Surely not!
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1. An Unreasonable Teaching
Still, many believe that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone perpetrated extreme wickedness for his whole lifetime, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the limited number of sins that he can commit in a lifetime.
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Who knows the truth about what happens after we die? Only God can reveal this information, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible, referred to above. Here is what the Bible says: “As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.” ( Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell.
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Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die. In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? No. “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.” ( Ecclesiastes 9:5)
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It is impossible for the dead, “conscious of nothing at all,” to experience the agonies of hellfire.
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2. A Harmful Doctrine
Some maintain that the teaching of hellfire is useful, true or not. Why? They say it serves as a deterrent to wrongdoing. Is that true? Well, is the crime rate in regions where people believe in hellfire lower than in other places? Hardly! In fact, the doctrine of hellfire is very harmful. Will a person who believes that God torments people view torture as something abhorrent? Why should he? Those believing in a cruel god often become cruel like their god. In whatever way a reasonable person may look at the matter, he cannot accept the existence of a hell of torment. Logic rebels against it.
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Human nature is repelled by it. More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists. When a person dies, “he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”— Psalm 146:4.
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3. What Punishment for Sin?
Does that mean that we are not punished for our sins? No, that is not the case. Our holy God punishes sinners, but he does not torture them. And when sinners repent, he forgives them. What is the punishment for sin? The Bible gives a forthright answer: “The wages sin pays is death.” ( Romans 6:23) Life is a gift from God. When we sin we no longer deserve that gift, and we die. You may ask: ‘How is that just? Why, everyone dies!’ That is true because we are all sinners. In effect, no one deserves life. “Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”— Romans 5:12.
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At this point you may be thinking: ‘If we all sin and so we all die, why should we try to be virtuous? It seems that the wicked man is treated exactly the same as the man who tries to serve God.’ But that is not the case. Although we are all sinners, God forgives those who sincerely repent and try to change their ways. He rewards our efforts to ‘make our minds over’ and to do good. (Romans 12:2) These truths are the basis of a marvelous hope.

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4. A Reward for the Good
We cease to exist when we die. But that does not mean that everything is finished. The faithful man Job knew that he would go to the grave (Sheol) when he died. But listen to his prayer to God: “O that in Sheol you would conceal me, that you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you.”—Job 14:13-15.

Job believed that if he was faithful until death, he would be remembered by God and resurrected. This was the belief of all of God’s servants in ancient times. Jesus himself confirmed this hope when he said: “The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”—John 5:28, 29. When will the resurrection begin?
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According to the Bible, very soon. Bible prophecy indicates that in 1914 this world entered into its “last days.” ( 2 Timothy 3:1) In what many call ‘the end of the world,’ God will very shortly remove wickedness and establish a new world under heavenly rulership.— Matthew, chapter 24; Mark, chapter 13; Luke, chapter 21; Revelation 16:14. The result will be a paradise covering the whole earth and inhabited by those who have sincerely tried to serve God. Wicked people will not burn in hellfire, but they will have no place in the coming Paradise. At Psalm 37:10, 11, we read: “The wicked one will be no more; and you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.” Is all of this just a dream? No, it is God’s promise. In the Bible we read: “I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.’”—Revelation 21:3, 4.
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Do you believe these words? You should. God’s word always comes true. ( Isaiah 55:11) We urge you to learn more about God’s purposes for mankind.
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Jehovah’s Witnesses will be delighted to help you. If you would like their help, we invite you to write to one of the addresses found on our website.
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Please ask (civil) questions and I'll respond but arguments.

Hmmm

Nothing says "Loving God" like burning those that don't believe in you forever in an eternal furnace

OP,you quote only one Revelation verse in all the Bible verses you quoted on hell fire.Go read/study revelation from chapter one to the end.

Lol... The rejected ones will be gods of the land and likely try to posses embodied beings in the next age I guess.

Hmmmmmmm

I have a simple question for you: If there is no hell/eternal punishment for sins, then why do you preach to people to turn from their sins?

Humanoid01:
I have a simple question for you: If there is no hell/eternal punishment for sins, then why do you preach to people to turn from their sins?

I answered this question above. I incite you to read.

Baawaa:
OP,you quote only one Revelation verse in all the Bible verses you quoted on hell fire.Go read/study revelation from chapter one to the end.

Of course I have and that's why I'm certain. Do you have a scripture you think supports it?

hopefulLandlord:
Nothing says "Loving God" like burning those that don't believe in you forever in an eternal furnace

I really wished I understood you.

Why all these confusion

chatinent:

I answered this question above. I incite you to read.

Your answer isn't satisfactory. I have another question, but that will depend on your definition of the "death" that proceeds sin. You didn't clearly state what really happens to sinners when they die naturally. Is it that they will just cease to exist? Please shed light on this, maybe you didn't really understand my first question.

Chatinent, like I told your brothers like Maximus69 and DappaD on the other thread, Hell is the repercussion for sin and death, it is created by sin itself and is not the creation nor the judgement of God who never sends anyone there. It comes with the first death, the lake of fire is God's judgement and is the second death where he punishes everything that is not part of his creation including Hell itself, Revelation 20:14.
All men enter into a covenant with death and hell through the bondage/addiction of the sin they choose and if they die in that state, their souls will be found in hell until their judgement when their bodies will be resurrected but the souls of those who find salvation in Christ will be in Paradise until their resurrection to receive their own rewards.
When a man keeps a viper as a pet to play with in a city where snakes are outlawed, when he gets bitten by the viper, he suffers the consequence of his choice in the torture. This is like his first death. However even if he survives the bite with injuries and is apprehended by the police, he must still face the sentence of the judge, which is like his second death.

The reality of hell is seen in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16: 19-31. Of course some lie that it is only a parable. Jesus taught in parables but study every parable of Jesus, even the parables were speaking of realities. So were it a parable, it will still be speaking of what really happens in the afterlife.
However, it is obvious that this was a real life story because he mentioned the specific names of the characters involved (Lazarus, Father Abraham, a rich man) and even showed what God said and what the angels did, and also described their earthly lives. He never mentioned specific names in his parables. No, this was no parable, it was a real life story and tells exactly where souls of men go immediately after death and are kept till their judgement from God, while their bodies decay in the ground.

Again, the reality that immediately after death, men go into Paradise or Hell, waiting for their judgement is also shown here on the cross, where the criminal enters Paradise the very day he dies
Luk 23:43 ...and Jesus said unto him, surely I tell you: today you will be with me in paradise.

And also here, we see that he'll is only for keeping until the judgement of God, which is the lake of fire.
2 Peter 2:4 ...... because if God didn't spare the angels that sinned and were put in the bottommost hell, and given up to chains of darkness, reserved until judgment...

Here is what God incarnate warned about hell

Mar 9:42-48 ...and whoever offends one little one that believes in me, it is better for him that a millstone was hung around his neck, and he was thrown into the sea. And if your hand ensnares you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, where their worm doesn't die and the fire doesn't get quenched. And if your foot ensnares you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter limping into life, than having two feet to be thrown into hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, where their worm doesn't die, and the fire doesn't get quenched. And if your eye ensnares you, pluck it out, it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into Hell's fire, where their worm doesn't die and the fire doesn't get quenched.

The Lord warned vehemently to enter the kingdom rather than hell because both are equally real. Only two possibilities to live in beginning here on earth and while awaiting your judgement in eternity - hell or the kingdom of God as seen above. Choose wisely.

So bring your overused Adam scripture here and the Ecclesiastes one, let me help you trash the lies once again.

Humanoid01:

Your answer isn't satisfactory. I have another question, but that will depend on your definition of the "death" that proceeds sin. You didn't clearly state what really happens to sinners when they die naturally. Is it that they will just cease to exist? Please shed light on this, maybe you didn't really understand my first question.

Yes, they cease to exist.

chatinent:

Yes, they cease to exist.

All right.

Now my next question: If they cease to exist, what do they stand to lose in the end if they'll be conscious of nothing? What's the point asking people to stay from sin when there won't be a sense of regret in the end?

Personally, as a sinner, I wouldn't have a good reason to stop sinning if I was told I would simply stop existing when I die. Yes, paradise should be everyone's desire, but what difference would it make when I won't even be conscious of that paradise? Make I just continue to dey sin jejely na.

Humanoid01:

All right.

Now my next question: If they cease to exist, what do they stand to lose in the end if they'll be conscious of nothing? What's the point asking people to stay from sin when there won't be a sense of regret in the end?

Well, since life is a gift, they lose that gift to enjoy it.
Actually, it's not only evildoers who remain unconscious when they die, the Bible says that “the dead[righteous and unrighteous] know nothing at all” – Ecclesiastes 9:5,6

Humanoid01:

All right.

Now my next question: If they cease to exist, what do they stand to lose in the end if they'll be conscious of nothing? What's the point asking people to stay from sin when there won't be a sense of regret in the end?

Biblical Job answered your question. He knew when he died, he would cease to exist. He also knew there was nothing like hell fire. Here's what he said: 'if a man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you.”—Job 14:13-15. Job believed the only way man can live again is through resurrection. He knew what it meant. Job yearned to be in God's memory by remaining righteous. Job also wanted to live eternally just like you and I -- that's why we are humans. However, resurrection can only bring God's people back alive to -- not this damned earth with suffering but -- an earth where there will neither be mourning, pain, outcry or even death. (Rev. 21:3, 4). Job knew this, and so should you.

DappaD:


Well, since life is a gift, they lose that gift to enjoy it.
Actually, it's not only evildoers who remain unconscious when they die, the Bible says that “the dead[righteous and unrighteous] know nothing at all” – Ecclesiastes 9:5,6

That's with respect to the physical world (under the sun).

Humanoid01:

That's with respect to the physical world (under the sun).

Do you think there's a spiritual world humans go when they die?

chatinent:

Biblical Job answered your question. He knew when he died, he would cease to exist. He also knew there was nothing like hell fire. Here's what he said: 'if a man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you.”—Job 14:13-15. Job believed the only way man can live again is through resurrection. He knew what it meant. Job yearned to be in God's memory by remaining righteous. Job also wanted to live eternally just like you and I -- that's why we are humans. However, resurrection can only bring God's people back alive to -- not this damned earth with suffering but -- an earth where there will neither be mourning, pain, outcry or even death. (Rev. 21:3, 4). Job knew this, and so should you.

Unfortunately, you still haven't answered my question. If I am not going to SUFFER for my sins, why should I stop them?

DappaD:

Do you think there's a spiritual world humans go when they die?

Yes, 100%.

Humanoid01:

Yes, 100%.

Can you support your belief with Scriptures?

Humanoid01:

Unfortunately, you still haven't answered my question. If I am not going to SUFFER for my sins, why should I stop them?

Must you suffer whilst you can still repent and be forgiven? The problem is you need to do what's right because you love God and not because of a punishment, thereby painting God cruel. The wicked will be cut off, a Psalmist sang.

DrLiveLogic:
Chatinent, like I told your brothers like Maximus69 and DappaD on the other thread, Hell is the repercussion for sin and death, it is created by sin itself and is not the creation nor the judgement of God who never sends anyone there. It comes with the first death, the lake of fire is God's judgement and is the second death where he punishes everything that is not part of his creation including Hell itself, Revelation 20:14.
All men enter into a covenant with death and hell through the bondage/addiction of the sin they choose and if they die in that state, their souls will be found in hell until their judgement when their bodies will be resurrected but the souls of those who find salvation in Christ will be in Paradise until their resurrection to receive their own rewards.
When a man keeps a viper as a pet to play with in a city where snakes are outlawed, when he gets bitten by the viper, he suffers the consequence of his choice in the torture. This is like his first death. However even if he survives the bite with injuries and is apprehended by the police, he must still face the sentence of the judge, which is like his second death.

The reality of hell is seen in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16: 19-31. Of course some lie that it is only a parable. Jesus taught in parables but study every parable of Jesus, even the parables were speaking of realities. So were it a parable, it will still be speaking of what really happens in the afterlife.
However, it is obvious that this was a real life story because he mentioned the specific names of the characters involved (Lazarus, Father Abraham, a rich man) and even showed what God said and what the angels did, and also described their earthly lives. He never mentioned specific names in his parables. No, this was no parable, it was a real life story and tells exactly where souls of men go immediately after death and are kept till their judgement from God, while their bodies decay in the ground.

Again, the reality that immediately after death, men go into Paradise or Hell, waiting for their judgement is also shown here on the cross, where the criminal enters Paradise the very day he dies
Luk 23:43 ...and Jesus said unto him, surely I tell you: today you will be with me in paradise.

And also here, we see that he'll is only for keeping until the judgement of God, which is the lake of fire.
2 Peter 2:4 ...... because if God didn't spare the angels that sinned and were put in the bottommost hell, and given up to chains of darkness, reserved until judgment...

Here is what God incarnate warned about hell

Mar 9:42-48 ...and whoever offends one little one that believes in me, it is better for him that a millstone was hung around his neck, and he was thrown into the sea. And if your hand ensnares you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, where their worm doesn't die and the fire doesn't get quenched. And if your foot ensnares you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter limping into life, than having two feet to be thrown into hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, where their worm doesn't die, and the fire doesn't get quenched. And if your eye ensnares you, pluck it out, it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into Hell's fire, where their worm doesn't die and the fire doesn't get quenched.

The Lord warned vehemently to enter the kingdom rather than hell because both are equally real. Only two possibilities to live in beginning here on earth and while awaiting your judgement in eternity - hell or the kingdom of God as seen above. Choose wisely.

So bring your overused Adam scripture here and the Ecclesiastes one, let me help you trash the lies once again.

where have you been DrLiveLogic hope you are good

Peter, the apostle, warned people about ALL MOGs (False Prophets and Teachers), from about 2000 years ago.

2 Peter 2 vs 1-7 (ERV)
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1. In the past there were false prophets among God’s people. It is the same now. You will have some false teachers in your group. They will teach things that are wrong—ideas that will cause people to be lost. And they will teach in a way that will be hard for you to see that they are wrong. They will even refuse to follow the Master who bought their freedom. And so they will quickly destroy themselves.
2. Many people will follow them in the morally wrong things they do. And because of them, others will say bad things about the way of truth we follow.
3. These false teachers only want your money. So they will use you by telling you things that are not true. But the judgment against these false teachers has been ready for a long time. And they will not escape God who will destroy them.

4. When angels sinned, God did not let them go free without punishment. He sent them to hell. He put those angels in caves of darkness, where they are being held until the time when God will judge them.

5. And God punished the evil people who lived long ago. He brought a flood to the world that was full of people who were against God. But he saved Noah and seven other people with him. Noah was a man who told people about living right.

6. God also punished the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. He burned them until there was nothing left but ashes. He used those cities as an example of what will happen to people who are against God.
7. But he saved Lot, a good man who lived there. Lot was greatly troubled by the morally bad lives of those evil people. 8 This good man lived with those evil people every day, and his good heart was hurt by the evil things he saw and heard.

What peter said is indeed what we see happening here and now. Because of the AntiChrists also called MOGs, the world does not view Jesus Christ in a good light at all. You simply mention that you believe in the God of the Bible, and almost immediately you see the detest in their looks... nothing to do with persecution at all. No, they have become wary of those who claim to be Christians. The world is tired of the lies and deceit of MOGs - the hypocrisy that is claimed and justified in the name of God.

These MOGs are the Antichrists as they have set themselves up as Masters over Jesus Christ's flock, pretending to be Teachers in His place.

Their doctrines and traditions are twisted representations of the teachings of Jesus Christ, and in many cases many are deceived and led away from the Truth of Jesus Christ as a result.

They sit themselves in the place of God in the minds of His own sheep and they steal, kill and destroy, for their own pleasure and kingdoms, that which God has planned for those who are His. And they do all of this in the name of God.
MOGs are the false prophets that Jesus Christ warned His followers to beware of. These are the antichrists that the apostles spoke of even during their days.

Humanoid01:

Unfortunately, you still haven't answered my question. If I am not going to SUFFER for my sins, why should I stop them?

It's the wickedness in people's hearts that makes them feel like extending the punishment of defaulters after death.
God told Adam "you're from the dust and you will return to the dust" that's the punishment for sin no more no less! Romans 6:7

What about purgatory?

confydoedowaye:
What about purgatory?

Nowhere to be found in the scriptures!

Zzor:
where have you been DrLiveLogic hope you are good

I've been around on and off. I'm good indeed and what's the latest with you?

Maximus69, Chatinent, and the rest of the JW's... I noticed you all avoided DrLiveLogic's comment on "Hell" and the "lake of fire".
Cherry picking at its best.

Blabbermouth:
Maximus69, Chatinent, and the rest of the JW's... I noticed you all avoided DrLiveLogic's comment on "Hell" and the "lake of fire".
Cherry picking at its best.

He is not commenting but arguing!

And God's word admonished us to avoid such! 1Timothy 6:4; Philippians 2:14; Titus 3:9

So if we discover someone just want to argue without making any point progressively, their is no reason wasting our precious time with such a person!

But if you want to observe how far he could go in a open debate on the topic, you can call him out one on one with just a JW here, let's see how far he can defend his beliefs with the scriptures!

I volunteer for JWs and i'll like him to come forward, we will discuss maturely, no insults, abuses, curses and each person must respect the belief of the other. We should quote the scriptures as the only authentic backing for our beliefs then leave followers to show how far they are convinced with the points by likes and shares, no one should bring in any countercomment while the debate is ongoing.

Call him out and see how far he could go when it comes to handling God's inspired word aright! 2Timothy 2:15