bandit90001:
Being honnest.
If you ask a jew if his ancestors were slaves, he will say yes. But tell me, is nigeria 1/10th of israel ?
No need to lie, accept history as it happened.
History is not for politics, it is a door into the passed. It is a last respect we pay to our ancestors, so stop telling lies !
If sons of slaves (israel) now have one of the most technologically advanced country in the world, the what stops the yoruba from admitting a bunch of them descend from freed slaves ?
The fact Benin was the euperpower of the region doesn't stop you from going after any dream you want to fulfill ?

TAO11:
Salves? You mean just as Aje from Ibadan ventured into Benin Kingdom and went on slave raiding for the Europeans?

Yes, this is according to the testimony from Benin Kingdom itself — not from the Yorubas.
——————
The sadder consequence of the event (which is a huge disgrace on you all) was that your slave daddies never seem to ever return home from slavery — They continued as slaves ad-infintum.

TAO11:
Salves? You mean just as Aje from Ibadan ventured into Benin Kingdom and went on slave raiding for the Europeans?

Yes, this is according to the testimony from Benin Kingdom itself — not from the Yorubas.
——————
The sadder consequence of the event (which is a huge disgrace on you all) was that your slave daddies never seem to ever return home from slavery — They continued as slaves ad-infintum.

bandit90001:
By the way, I am not sure that you are all aware, but the word "king" itself is the title of the british crown (my previous comment assumes you are aware of this). So when you say "king" while referring to rulers whom are not the king of england, you are paraphrasing the title of the british crown.
It is quite a common thing to praphrase the title of a certain well known crown. The title of the Oba of Benin is "Oba" and the yoruba are paraphrasing it.

Normally, if you just say "the queen", then people should automatically understand that you mean the queen of england.
Normally, if you just say "the tsar", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of russia.
Normally, if you just say "the keiser", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of germany.
Normally, if you just say "the roi", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of france.
Normally, if you just say "the sultan", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of the ottoman empire. (i think that is where it originated)
...
Likewise, normally, if you just say "the Oba", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of Benin.
Just common sense...

bandit90001:
Being honnest.
If you ask a jew if his ancestors were slaves, he will say yes. But tell me, is nigeria 1/10th of israel ?
No need to lie, accept history as it happened.
History is not for politics, it is a door into the passed. It is a last respect we pay to our ancestors, so stop telling lies !
If sons of slaves (israel) now have one of the most technologically advanced country in the world, the what stops the yoruba from admitting a bunch of them descend from freed slaves ?
The fact Benin was the superpower of the region doesn't stop you from going after any dream you want to fulfill ?

bandit90001:
By the way, I am not sure that you are all aware, but the word "king" itself is the title of the british crown (my previous comment assumes you are aware of this). So when you say "king" while referring to rulers whom are not the king of england, you are paraphrasing the title of the british crown.

It is quite a common thing to praphrase the title of a certain well known crown. The title of the Oba of Benin is "Oba" and the yoruba are paraphrasing it.

Normally, if you just say "the queen", then people should automatically understand that you mean the queen of england.

Normally, if you just say "the tsar", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of russia.
Normally, if you just say "the keiser", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of germany.

Normally, if you just say "the roi", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of france.

Normally, if you just say "the sultan", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of the ottoman empire. (i think that is where it originated)

Likewise, normally, if you just say "the Oba", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of Benin.
Just common sense.

bandit90001:
By the way, I am not sure that you are all aware, but the word "king" itself is the title of the british crown (my previous comment assumes you are aware of this). So when you say "king" while referring to rulers whom are not the king of england, you are paraphrasing the title of the british crown.
It is quite a common thing to praphrase the title of a certain well known crown. The title of the Oba of Benin is "Oba" and the yoruba are paraphrasing it.

Normally, if you just say "the queen", then people should automatically understand that you mean the queen of england.
Normally, if you just say "the tsar", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of russia.
Normally, if you just say "the keiser", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of germany.
Normally, if you just say "the roi", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of france.
Normally, if you just say "the sultan", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of the ottoman empire. (i think that is where it originated)
...
Likewise, normally, if you just say "the Oba", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of Benin.
Just common sense...

bandit90003:
By the way, I am not sure that you are all aware, but the word "king" itself is the title of the british crown (my previous comment assumes you are aware of this). So when you say "king" while referring to rulers whom are not the king of england, you are paraphrasing the title of the british crown.

It is quite a common thing to praphrase the title of a certain well known crown. The title of the Oba of Benin is "Oba" and the yoruba are paraphrasing it.

Normally, if you just say "the queen", then people should automatically understand that you mean the queen of england.

Normally, if you just say "the tsar", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of russia.
Normally, if you just say "the keiser", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of germany.

Normally, if you just say "the roi", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of france.

Normally, if you just say "the sultan", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of the ottoman empire. (i think that is where it originated)

Likewise, normally, if you just say "the Oba", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of Benin.
Just common sense.

bandit9000:


Example: England.

Only one traditional ruler in the entire england goes by the title "king" or "queen".
the rest carry titles like: duke, lord, sir...

You can't have a kingdom with more than one king !

Which brings me to the case of interest: Benin.
I guess that like many nigerians (you people's education is really not goog enough), you do not know that Benin Kingdom is not equal to Benin city, just like london is not equal to england. London is only the capital of england, likewise Benin city is only the capital of Benin Kingdom.
Benin Kingdom is not within Edo-state, the reverse is true.
The King/Emperor of Benin Kingdom goes by the title "Oba", nothing else.
The other traditional rulers whom are his vassals go by other titles.

You might want to ask yourself which is older: the word Oba or the word yoruba ?
Answer: the word Oba is older.

Also, I repeat, the "yoruba" started calling their kings "oba" only recently (around the 1930's) when they dropped an other foreign nobility title "sir" in favor of the powerful title of the Oba of Benin (King of kings), yoruba like borrowing foreign titles, you might be surprised to learn that the words "imperial majesty" are not yourba words neither ! eventhough the ooni of ife, the alafin of oyo and some other youba monarchs keep using these words as if they were their birthright.
The scriptures in which the word Oba is used as a general term for king, are not early scriptures and obviously the writer is paraphrasing the title of the Oba of Benin as a word to describe african kings of the region whose titles he probably doesn't know or on which he doesn't want to go into the listing.

The early colonial texts and pictures of yoruba monarchs do not describe them as "Oba", rather their titles (ooni, alafin...) are used to describe them just like the title of the Oba of Benin "Oba" is used to describe him.

bandit90003:
[s]Example: England.

Only one traditional ruler in the entire england goes by the title "king" or "queen".
the rest carry titles like: duke, lord, sir...

You can't have a kingdom with more than one king !

Which brings me to the case of interest: Benin.
I guess that like many nigerians (you people's education is really not goog enough), you do not know that Benin Kingdom is not equal to Benin city, just like london is not equal to england. London is only the capital of england, likewise Benin city is only the capital of Benin Kingdom.
Benin Kingdom is not within Edo-state, the reverse is true.
The King/Emperor of Benin Kingdom goes by the title "Oba", nothing else.
The other traditional rulers whom are his vassals go by other titles.

You might want to ask yourself which is older: the word Oba or the word yoruba ?
Answer: the word Oba is older.

Also, I repeat, the "yoruba" started calling their kings "oba" only recently (around the 1930's) when they dropped an other foreign nobility title "sir" in favor of the powerful title of the Oba of Benin (King of kings), yoruba like borrowing foreign titles, you might be surprised to learn that the words "imperial majesty" are not yourba words neither ! eventhough the ooni of ife, the alafin of oyo and some other youba monarchs keep using these words as if they were their birthright.
The scriptures in which the word Oba is used as a general term for king, are not early scriptures and obviously the writer is paraphrasing the title of the Oba of Benin as a word to describe african kings of the region whose titles he probably doesn't know or on which he doesn't want to go into the listing.

The early colonial texts and pictures of yoruba monarchs do not describe them as "Oba", rather their titles (ooni, alafin...) are used to describe them just like the title of the Oba of Benin "Oba" is used to describe him.[/s]

bandit90003:
[s]Look, whatever mental problems you have, don't disturb me with your lies. I am not interested at all.
You can keep making up stories or relying on some other fairytails in order to impress your followers while feeding them with lies which you very well know to be lies. I am not interested. You are a liar, a pathological one. And you seem to believe you are fighting a war with your lies. My only interest in this topic is history, not your imagined war...so lie to someone else please.[/s]

gomojam:
Do you mind elaborating on this? I just want to learn something

bandit9000:


Example: England.

Only one traditional ruler in the entire england goes by the title "king" or "queen".
the rest carry titles like: duke, lord, sir...

You can't have a kingdom with more than one king !

Which brings me to the case of interest: Benin.
I guess that like many nigerians (you people's education is really not goog enough), you do not know that Benin Kingdom is not equal to Benin city, just like london is not equal to england. London is only the capital of england, likewise Benin city is only the capital of Benin Kingdom.
Benin Kingdom is not within Edo-state, the reverse is true.
The King/Emperor of Benin Kingdom goes by the title "Oba", nothing else.
The other traditional rulers whom are his vassals go by other titles.

You might want to ask yourself which is older: the word Oba or the word yoruba ?
Answer: the word Oba is older.

Also, I repeat, the "yoruba" started calling their kings "oba" only recently (around the 1930's) when they dropped an other foreign nobility title "sir" in favor of the powerful title of the Oba of Benin (King of kings), yoruba like borrowing foreign titles, you might be surprised to learn that the words "imperial majesty" are not yourba words neither ! eventhough the ooni of ife, the alafin of oyo and some other youba monarchs keep using these words as if they were their birthright.
The scriptures in which the word Oba is used as a general term for king, are not early scriptures and obviously the writer is paraphrasing the title of the Oba of Benin as a word to describe african kings of the region whose titles he probably doesn't know or on which he doesn't want to go into the listing.

The early colonial texts and pictures of yoruba monarchs do not describe them as "Oba", rather their titles are used to describe them just like the title of the Oba of Benin "Oba" is used to describe him.

bandit90001:
By the way, I am not sure that you are all aware, but the word "king" itself is the title of the british crown (my previous comment assumes you are aware of this). So when you say "king" while referring to rulers whom are not the king of england, you are paraphrasing the title of the british crown.
It is quite a common thing to praphrase the title of a certain well known crown. The title of the Oba of Benin is "Oba" and the yoruba are paraphrasing it.

Normally, if you just say "the queen", then people should automatically understand that you mean the queen of england.
Normally, if you just say "the tsar", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of russia.
Normally, if you just say "the keiser", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of germany.
Normally, if you just say "the roi", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of france.
Normally, if you just say "the sultan", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of the ottoman empire. (i think that is where it originated)
...
Likewise, normally, if you just say "the Oba", then people should automatically understand that you mean the king of Benin.
Just common sense...

bandit90003:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1_04eku2jQ

bandit90003:
precolonial maps of Benin Kingdom:

Some of the maps:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7759521n.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b846939

This following map was made between 1603 and 1612:
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/64869/africae-tabula-nova-ortelius




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvaiC_djW8o

bandit90003post=96480250:
[s]precolonial maps of Benin Kingdom:

Some of the maps:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7759521n.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b846939

This following map was made between 1603 and 1612:
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/64869/africae-tabula-nova-ortelius[/s]

.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvaiC_djW8o
.
.

bandit90003:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zK2bsZhPIo
time stamp 1:53

Afam4eva:
I'm sure we're not new to the whole Ikwerre-Igbo argument and this has been going for so long and nobody from either places are ready to concede. I'm here to tell you why.

I will start by stating my personal opinion on the matter.

If you have followed me on Nairaland, you will know that in the earlier years of Nairaland, I felt it was stupid not to think of Ikwerre as Igbo but in recent years, I've changed my perception which is not to discount the Ikwerre and Igbo link but rather to concede the fact that people have the right to call themselves what they so choose. I mean, it can be insulting to tell someone who they are even though they claim otherwise. It doesn't matter the reason why such a person thinks he's not Igbo whether factual or plain lies. Afteral Ethnic Groups are to a large extent an artificial creation.

Now, back to my argument...

The reason most Ikwerres say they are not Igbo is visible the moment you cross Ore(in Yorubaland). It is evident that it was not only Igbo groups that were not centralized. Even around Edo state where you had the famous Benin empire, that was what it was, an empire. However, some different groups in that empire did not see themselves as coming from the same stock. That is why despite the glaring similarities between Bini and Esan, they are distinct groups despite being in the same state.

It is the same story in Delta state where despite the closeness in language between Urhobos and Isokos, they are classed as 2 different groups when one could be a dialect of the other.

Akwa Ibom and Cross River is another typical example. When you hear people speaking languages from those 2 states which most Nigerians call 'Calabar', it sounds pretty the same but people from the groups will tel you that they are either Efik, Ibibio, Annang or even Oron.

So, with these examples, you can see that a lot of these groups were not centralized and as such do not favour coming together to form a large formidable group.

The same thing can be said of Ikwerre and some other Igboid groups that distance themselves from the Igbo tag. They see Igbos the way isokos see Urhobos and the same way Efiiks see Ibibios. They know they have a lot of similarities with each other but they have created an identity no matter how little and that is why they would rather be their own group.

Having said that, there's a small difference in the relationship between urhobos and Isokos, Efiks, Ibibios and Annangs to the relationship between Igbos and Ikwerres.

While the former groupps are to a large extent cordial to each other, it's a tricky situation between Igbos and Ikwerres. Yes, Igbos and Ikwerres mix, marry and all but Ikwerres have the feeling that Igbo want to dominate them. They could be right or wrong but you can't exactly false that entire premise because they can't really understand why Igbos can't let them be who they want to be without forcing it down their throat.

That's why a lot of Ikwerres who can speak central Igbo are even wary of speaking of Speaking Igbo to Igbo people because that may make whoever they're speaking it with think that they're Igbos. That's why you notice that Ikwerres find every possible thing to further move away from the Igbo tag. Even if it means claiming to have migrated from Benin.

So, in conclusion, Ikwerre could be an Igbo dialect in another universe but the way things stand right now, it's almost impossible and their wish to be called Ikwerres should not be disrespected.

bandit90003:
[s]The fact is some yoruba are obsessed with us, well I guess everybody whom is worthy has his own stalker. Perharps it is some kind of weird compliment.
Although what i hate is the lies: the british copied words from the vikings: "friend", "foe" and many others. They acknowledge it ! The Romans copied science from the greeks, but they acknowledged it. Europe copied science from the arabs and china, they acknowledged it. but in the case of the yoruba. It is total denial, myths lies...[/s]

[s]But I have personnally met some yoruba whom are not in denial and are quite ashamed of the constant lies and ungratefulness of some of their people.
It is unfortunate, well educated yoruba whom I met in europe do not act like this.[/s]