kkins25:
However, all Muslims are peaceful,

This is a fallacy. Its like saying all Christians are going to a place called heaven. Jesus corrected that fallacy when he said his father's house has many mansions and some will gnash their teeth.

The fact that some Muslims might not be peaceful does not negate the fact that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, though this might be a fallacy on my part since you have not yet said if the Muslims you see outside your window have attacked you in their jihad yet.

Kindly tell me what state you live in.

budaatum:

This is a fallacy. Its like saying all Christians are going to a place called heaven. Jesus corrected that fallacy when he said his father's house has many mansions and some will gnash their teeth.

Tell me a lie, kk.

YOU ASKED FOR IT...

The fact that some Muslims might not be peaceful does not negate the fact that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, though this might be a fallacy on my part since you have not yet said if the Muslims you see outside your window have attacked you in their jihad yet.
Kindly tell me what state you live in.

The true version of Abrahamic religions can only manifest themselves when they are in power.. so it would be inappropriate to use Muslims living where you are as proper 'sample' for our little discourse.
where i lived, the Muslims of the Middlebelt-northern Nigeria, kano,kogi, jos, Abuja, and kaduna which were for the most part cosmopolitan where very different from the Muslims of the southern part of the country.

kkins25:

where i lived, the Muslims of the Middlebelt-northern Nigeria, kano,kogi, jos, Abuja, and kaduna which were for the most part cosmopolitan where very different from the Muslims of the southern part of the country.

So, the Muslims where you live whom you come into contact with daily are peaceful but some far away Muslims you know nothing about apart from what you read in the news are all jihadist?

Kk, I happen to know you are much more intelligent and smarter than this. Who hacked your account?

kkins25:
Like Christianity Islam has sucked blood,

This by the way, is an error of thought. Christianity and Islam has not sucked any blood anywhere. I am open to evidence however.

budaatum:

This by the way, is an error of thought. Christianity and Islam has not sucked any blood anywhere. I am open to evidence however.

oh, that would be taking it out of contest as i did say it was a "tool".

Like Christianity Islam has sucked blood, so i can excuse the blood that was shed by its pioneers because it was a tool to hunt for resources.

I dont think Mohammed went about preaching the gospel of Islam to have pioneered the worlds second largest religion neither did the papacy post Constantine era(after this Christianity is not Jesus' doing).

However, i understand what you mean. its the people not the religion. That in itself is a fallacy according to

1 John 4: Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world

Moreso, history is there; Christians with a red cross beneath their armor did not waste people of neighboring lands led by the vicari Christi.

What happened to the gnostics, why did they hide their manuscripts in the caves of the red sea far away from the vicious hands of the so called true Christians aka canonical folks?
you also read through the wisdom of sarassin on the Middle path thread, you surely observed the 'quick to damn him satan' by the most powerful Christians on the nairaland forum.

I agree with one of the four horsemen of atheism -Sam Harris and strongly suggest you take heed because when the religious folks get totalitarian power(hopefully they dont) they would not hesitate to put your lgbt loving,equity loving, Dear good old Muttley is now a satan in the same league with us . As long as we are satan in the eyes of them, we are expendable or should i say anathema.

Has Christianity being used as a tool for war? Yes.
islam? hell yeah! its still going on. we still got the taliban, isis, al-quaeda, etc. they love their Prophet.

what about manipulation? oh yeah. guilty.

you would then say: kk, there is a difference between a 'religious crime' and 'committing a crime in the name of religion'.. Then i would say; well A man can only manifest fruits of the spirit he possess. is Christianity a good spirit? is Islam a good spirit? NO.

there are good and bad people kk.
kk: yes, but it is a fallacy to say that the minority of bad people associated with either of this religions are responsible for the crimes committed in the name of the religion.
i just gave an instance of the "boycott France". i would like to ask, what would you, buda make of the fact that someone starts a riot because restrictions were put on him for beheading someone? instead of condemning the act of the beheading youd rather "love your prophet".

i didnt think all muslims to be dangerous. my argument is not against the individual but against the collective. Has christianity or islam done more good than harm? isnt that a silly question?? why should there be "bad is something ordained by God- the Almight God for that matter. Unless of course God isnt all mighty and all loving as we think.

funny, because just yesterday i was watching a debate between christopher hitchen along side with sam harris and two other jewish rabbi.. one of the rabbi said he doesn't know where people get this idea of God being all loving from and that there is no Hebrew word for ominipotent.. My mind exploded.

Preliminary reading for kkins25

https://www.nairaland.com/5978597/skepticism-vs-zombiesm-which-good/3#92112934

https://www.nairaland.com/4748769/how-keep-up-secondary-school#83705670

https://www.nairaland.com/5485070/how-world-there-wasnt-religion/1#83608489

https://www.nairaland.com/5370203/when-hausa-produce-president-nigeria#81437623

https://www.nairaland.com/5269656/why-islam-afraid-atheism-apostasy/1#79753346

https://www.nairaland.com/5133664/list-gods-died-resurrected-after/6#77703114

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion?wprov=sfla1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice?wprov=sfla1

In the Bible we read how the non-Christian nor Muslim Egyptians enslaved the Israelites. They did not do this because of their own religion but because of their greed and will to dominate. The Romans and Vikings invaded Britannia not because of their religion but because of their greed. We Yorubas did not fight wars and enslave and sell those we conquered because of our religion but because of our greed and desire for resources. The Europeans did not colonize Africa because of their religion but because of their greed and desire to dominate.

In the year 1551, there was a man who had a knife he cut wood, hunted food and protected his family with. One day he went with his knife to steal his neighbour's food but his neighbour fought back so he killed his neighbour and family with his knife. Your reasoning above would acquit the man and condemn the knife for murder.

budaatum:
_{In the Bible we read how the non-Christian nor Muslim Egyptians enslaved the Israelites. They did not do this because of their own religion but because of their greed and will to dominate. The Romans and Vikings invaded Britannia not because of their religion but because of their greed. We Yorubas did not fight wars and enslave and sell those we conquered because of our religion but because of our greed and desire for resources. The Europeans did not colonize Africa because of their religion but because of their greed and desire to dominate.}

In the year 1551, there was a man who had a knife he cut wood, hunted food and protected his family with. One day he went with his knife to steal his neighbour's food but his neighbour fought back so he killed his neighbour and family with his knife. Your reasoning above would acquit the man and condemn the knife for murder.

The analogy would not hold water.

Religion is not just an abstract thing, from a metaphysical stand point; the human mind is like a computer running on an operating system. Considering the transition from instinct determined behaviour to a rational one it goes to say that the operating system is collecting data with the aim of being able to make better decisions to maximize survival.
Human being[un-intended pun] Social creatures need to have operating system that would foster cooperation and drive action towards the ultimate goal which is survival.
Archtypes, i would refer to them as kernel which is the framework on which the OS would abide in-so to speak. Religion is one of many archetypes that initially or rather originally started as a science of inquiry. Religion guided how people viewed the world, guided their thoughts, and conditioned their behavior.
This means that Religion becomes the foundational guide for behavioral conduct in society

Bearing this in mind, and considering the title ascribed to the Abrahamic God which is- 'the warrior" God. Wether or not this God exist is up for debate but giving the fact that to a religious person, God not only signifies creator but also the highest form of authority in a psychological sense, social sense and political sense.

This is just laying up the ground work for my debate. now back to your analogy.

What if i told you that the knife can be held responsible, hear me out.
The first hole in the analogy is that the knife does not take into account the psychological implications of Religion. Thesoucerer can correct me if i go wrong here.
Serial killers are ones diagnosed with habitual intent to kill for some form of gratification. Their habit is not a decision in a sense but a response to environmental conditions which they grew up in. serial killers can be largely triggered to killing by, for example the hair colour of the victim.

Now if we subtitute the hair for religion, and the serial killer for a religious believer we would see that when the program of Religion has been installed on the human- their thinking and behavior become almost a program, i.e given the same circumstances they would make the same decisions over and over again even if it is the wrong one.

when i say "fuq mohammed", i expect to have my head chopped off by muslims and not "bad muslims". please note the distinction.. lets digress a little again.

With most religions framework comes security updates, for example;

"[ur=https://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm]If they repent[/url] and uphold the practice of prayer and almsgiving, then they are your brothers in religion. If after this, however, they break their covenant, then war should be waged against the leaders of kufr (infidelity). Here "covenant breaking" in no way can be construed to mean "breaking of political covenants". Rather, the context clearly determines its meaning to be "confessing Islam and then renouncing it". Thereafter the meaning of "fight the heads of disbelief" (9:11,12) can only mean that war should be waged against the leaders instigating apostasy

.

Above is the algorithm that should run when i go into a mosque and scream "fuq mohammed". The man who decides to chop my head off is not a Bad muslim but a muslim with a functioning "apostasy algorithm" running.

i can go on and on with the examples but you get the point.

What i have done is give an analogy that would shed some light on the "indoctrination" of religious people. the verse quoted above comes from the Highest authority to a muslim. would you buda, go against that which you hold to be of the highest of authorities and power? many have tried and survived yet many more have tried and DIED. it means this force is indeed one to be reckoned with.

further more, Religion is not just a "tool" but as i have tried to defend above, could very well be the operating system of the human decision making process. The bible and koran are the databases where the algorithms to program a new computer are written.

So no buda, you cannot simply say the knife is inanimate and is being controlled by the man. Ever wondered if the man actually hears the knife talk? after all Moses went to the mountains and spoke to the Creator of us all..


now on Greed and others,
Religion is a very complex framework as i have come to understand. Remember i said that the operating system taking data and evolving? Remember also that that aside the Framework, there also exist another superior algorithm which governs and determines which operating system the human should run..
i will call it the Bios, the bios' ultimate aim is to ensure the survival of the specie. in order to do this, it develops the framework that suits the current enviromental conditions. i.e adapts new behaviour that would hopefully triumph against other species and competition.

During the time of moses, Yaweh was vicious. You already know that yaweh had to be vicious. they were slaves fighting for freedom. inorder to FIGHT and SURVIVE the people had to be vicious, blood thirsty, willing to kill little kids, rape foreign women of conquered lands, etc. and Religion was the Operating system.

so how does yaweh fit in? Yaweh represents the algorithm that would ensure the jews thrived. they were at a critical point, with bliss just a nation away and death a nation behind.
Yaweh was the superior algorithm(software update) from which the sense of justice, sense of self, the intelligentia that dominated all other men. if Yaweh had been jesus at that time then we wouldn't have known the jew today.

kkins25:
Bearing this in mind, and considering the title ascribed to the Abrahamic God which is- 'the warrior" God

This is like naming an elephant by its tusk! Please, who ascribes 'the warrior" to the Abrahamic God? Do some not refer to the Abrahamic God as the Loving God, and the Wisdom God, and the Manna God, the Salvation God, the Trinity God etc?

Those who ascribe any particular name to God have disobeyed the commandment which states
that "Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth".

Humans are not simple computer hardware, and religion is not as simple as the software programmed in them. If it was, the Christian software would not be as complex as the Trinity and all Christians would behave according to the software which they obviously do not.

kkins25:
Serial killers are ones diagnosed with habitual intent to kill for some form of gratification. Their habit is not a decision in a sense but a response to environmental conditions which they grew up in. serial killers can be largely triggered to killing by, for example the hair colour of the victim.

I suppose this is the reason serial killers plead insanity or "the hair colour of the victim made me kill the victim", and are let off, right?

kkins25:
What i have done is give an analogy that would shed some light on the "indoctrination" of religious people. the verse quoted above comes from the Highest authority to a muslim. would you buda, go against that which you hold to be of the highest of authorities and power? many have tried and survived yet many more have tried and DIED. it means this force is indeed one to be reckoned with.

First, there is no instruction to chop your head off if you are insane enough to go in a mosque and insult Mohammed, and anyone who does chop your head off has actually disobeyed the instruction not to kill.

Remember Adam and Eve? God is said to have personally instructed them not to eat the fruit of a particular tree, but did they not go against the so called Highest authority who spoke to them directly, but you expect buda to read the instructions of this highest authority in a book and never go against it? You must think buda is perfectly programmed or something!

Part of the so called Christian indoctrination is the Ten Commandments. Would you like to argue that Christians do not go against their indoctrination?

kkins25:
So no buda, you cannot simply say the knife is inanimate and is being controlled by the man. Ever wondered if the man actually hears the knife talk? after all Moses went to the mountains and spoke to the Creator of us all..

No, kk, I have never wondered if the man actually hears the knife talk and if the man said he did hear the knife talk I will conclude the man is insane or lying because I categorically happen yo know that knives do not talk, just as I happen to know that Moses speaking to his creator on the mountain is not literally meant.

kkins25:
During the time of moses, Yaweh was vicious.

No, kk, this is untrue, or an act of placing the cart before the horse.

During the time of Moses, humans were vicious, and what you read about their Yahweh is a projection of human behaviour.

kkins25:
If Yaweh had been jesus at that time then we wouldn't have known the jew today.

The more accurate way to say the above is "if human understanding had evolved to that portrayed by the time of Jesus", but I hope you realise that would involve jumping all the steps of understanding acquisition that led from "In the Beginning", to, "And the Word was God".



You continously make out that God did what humans do and claim was done by God, to which my response is, I so hate discussing religion with religiously indoctrinated people like you who think gods actually exist as physical entities as opposed to the figment of the imagination of those who create gods in their own minds just as you have created a talking knife to insult my intelligence.

Step up kk. We both know you can.

Wisdom behind Islamic illegality of betting; case of Bet9ja
Betting is haram (illegal and forbidden) in Islam because Allah the Almighty has forbidden it for the following reasons.
http://en.hausatv.com/news/content/21752

foolish,useless people