Everybody knows this is the plan B for Fulani government, they know what they are doing. Hence, if the south insist on restructuring the country and resource control, this is where they the fulani will fall back to. This is pure contingency. You remember the rail line to Niger, all are purely calculated in case Nigerians choose their separate ways in the future. Fulani is the most "intelligent" ethnic group in Africa. Do the research and find out. They are so patient and can plan something for 300 years. They have just about 6 million population in Nigeria yet they dominate the political and security sphere of the country. They are at your back yard too, just look around.

PhiliptheArab:


1. If you buy fuel at 200 naira and sell it at n120 or below you won't make a profit

Infact you would even fuel the corruption and sharp practices there since everyonr would be gaming the system to make money

Deregulation would allow everyone make their money and would even make refining more attractive because of the fact that now everyone makes their profit, and government saves money that would have been used to subsidise fuel

2. Here is one of the reasons why i oppose subsidy

In 2011 we imported fuel at 99 naira per liter. By 2015 it had risen to 132 per liter

Meanwhile in 2011, we were selling fuel at N65. Government increased it to N97 in 2012 and then reduced it to N86 by 2015

Back then everyone was importing fuel. Nnpc did not become the sole importer till 2017.

And to cover the difference between cost of impprt and sale price, government was paying a subsidy that kept on going up.

Add the fact that fake subsidy claims were being made plus the fact that fuel smuggling was going on because fuel was more expensive in our neighbours like Niger. And that was happening because government was finding it difficult to pay rising subsidy costs which in turn made marleters engage on sharp practices to earn enough money to keep their head above water (artificial scarcity was yhe thrid sharp practice they did)

Even now that NNPC is the sole importer since 2017 they have to use their own money to subsidse fuel before they sell it to marketers. That does not make sense.

If thete was deregulation, yes marketers would have exploited us, but there would have been enough profit in the system to make refining fuel at home more attractive

3. To be honest, you seem to have the idea that capitalists make money to keep in their pockets. No. They make money to invest in money growth which means more jobs and such like.


4. Nigeria does not have enough money to even pay for any subsides. Our breakeven crude price is 139 dollars per barrel. Oil has not been at that price for ages ( which is why we habr always been taking loans even during GEJ regime andalso why GEJ wanted total deregulation).and even now it is at 42 per barrel.

So basically it seems you want our government to take more loans.

I've had this argument with someone here before.
There's no evidence that simply jacking up prices or allowing so-called private investors to control an economy will make it better economy wise. Someone just gave you an example of cement and I also used a more recent example of rice. But I digress.

We have somehow come to demonize subsidy in Nigeria, instead of corruption that exists in subsidy. Mind you, we highly subsidize our political office holders. No one talks about that. It's the subsidy in our low income and informal economy, whose corruption is being spearheaded by same political office holders we always have a problem with. The US subsidizes its oil and agriculture industry. That of the agriculture is much more interesting to study. It takes import tariffs on imported agricultural products and pays it directly to their farmers. This makes it more like the foreign farmers are paying the American farmers for importing their farm produce to America!! So how come it's in Nigeria that subsidy is a problem?

Nobody wants the subsidy regime to continue non-stop. But you have to realize. Most refineries in developing countries are govt owned. The difference is unlike Nigeria where we killed our refineries with corruption, then turn back to blame subsidy, others have theirs working fine. Even Niger!!

Buhari made NNPC the sole importer because he believed the marketers were fraudulent and NNPC being the sole importer will eliminate the fraud. I guess it's safe to say he has also seen that ultimately our fuel demand is actually high in this country which should not be a surprise to anybody who knows the number of I-better-pass-neighbor generators that exist in this country alone. Not to factor in that road transport account for over 90% of transportation in Nigeria. You'll then realize that the excuse of smuggling is just another one of our govt's attempt to blame their ineptitude on faceless people. It is obvious that over 90% of the fuel imported is being consumed here in Nigeria!!

You can't really dictate for a capitalist what to decide to use his money for. It's why economics is a social discipline. The capitalist might decide to make money in fuel importation and throw a party or invest in real estate. You can't say with any degree of confidence that every importer will put his excess profit into local refining. Moreso if you realize how expensive it is to build and maintain refineries.

I've heard this argument of breakeven price so many times and I believe it's the work of some pro-govt voodoo economists who just want to make it seem like our problem is not our politicians but instead the resources available to them. We've never had a budget benchmark of $80 per barrel so I don't get where dis idea of $139 per barrel comes from. That is besides the fact that the informal economy which is far larger than Nigeria's formal economy and from which the bulk of our GDP comes from runs largely unaided by govt. So you begin to wonder where this breakeven price comes from and what exactly they are trying to breakeven.
Our govt does not need to take more loans. It should adopt a natural work before you chop mentality instead of the present chop-I-chop one we have. Our govt and the officials are the most subsidized not the citizenry. That's why the money being produced can't provide for subsidizing the govt and the citizen at the same time. The citizens have given way presently.

PhiliptheArab:



So let government spend more of our scarce resources on subsidy, let us miss out on investment in our oil industry which could generate jobs and lets let the corruption get worse because subsides fuels more corruption because you want fuel at 40 naira per liter?

All i can say is if you were a businesses person and government brought in price controls to your business you wouldn't like it

You're still looking at the problem the wrong way.
What job are we talking about? Nigerian government have no interest in creating jobs.

No average income family will give out inflated contracts to construct his little 3 bedroom bungalow. If the family has unemployed persons they will be involved so they can survive from the project. But that is not the way Nigeria is managed.

Nigeria prefers to export jobs by awarding inflated contracts to companies with little or no pedigree leaving millions of her citizens in abject poverty with no form of employment. Because that's the means for our politicians to cash out.

Who invested in China? It's funny when we believe we must get Foreign Direct Investment. China grew with serious state control of means of production.


And the point of me not liking it when government implements price control if I'm a business man, is really not relevant. I'm a business man. But what the society needs transcends beyond profit. If you leave your economy in the hands of business men, they will rape your economy and move their profits elsewhere to continue their pillaging.

FELA sang about it.

Agbegbaorogboye:

I've had this argument with someone here before.
There's no evidence that simply jacking up prices or allowing so-called private investors to control an economy will make it better economy wise. Someone just gave you an example of cement and I also used a more recent example of rice. But I digress.

I could also argue that deregulating cement has helped our ceent industry grow....and rescued some companies from collapse.As for rice....there are many other reasons why our r ice industry is not growing....chief among which is subsitence farming is the bedrock of our agrculture...

mehow come to demonize subsidy in Nigeria, instead of corruption that exists in subsidy. Mind you, we highly subsidize our political office holders. No one talks about that. It's the subsidy in our low income and informal economy, whose corruption is being spearheaded by same political office holders we always have a problem with. The US subsidizes its oil and agriculture industry. That of the agriculture is much more interesting to study. It takes import tariffs on imported agricultural products and pays it directly to their farmers. This makes it more like the foreign farmers are paying the American farmers for importing their farm produce to America!! So how come it's in Nigeria that subsidy is a problem?

B ecause as i explained e arlier, subsidy chops our money and makes us more and mre dependent on loans. It also stifles JOB GROWTH, investment and so on. And it fuels corruption.
And famring subsidies in the US are not popular with everyone...some regard it as a waste of money

Nobody wants the subsidy regime to continue non-stop. But you have to realize. Most refineries in developing countries are govt owned. The difference is unlike Nigeria where we killed our refineries with corruption, then turn back to blame subsidy, others have theirs working fine. Even Niger!!

Because like i keep saying Niger does not subsidse fuel...so there is enough of a profit to pay for refinery upkeep. Nigeria keeps selling fuel below prduction and import costs, pays a subsidy that isn't enough and keeps on rising because of in ternational prices...and as such we don't have enough money and then the corruption wrsens the matter.

hari made NNPC the sole importer because he believed the marketers were fraudulent and NNPC being the sole importer will eliminate the fraud. I guess it's safe to say he has also seen that ultimately our fuel demand is actually high in this country which should not be a surprise to anybody who knows the number of I-better-pass-neighbor generators that exist in this country alone. Not to factor in that road transport account for over 90% of transportation in Nigeria. You'll then realize that the excuse of smuggling is just another one of our govt's attempt to blame their ineptitude on faceless people. It is obvious that over 90% of the fuel imported is being consumed here in Nigeria!!

No, Bubu made NNPC the sole importer because it was becoming difficult to pay mareters subsidy prices...to the point that we were owing a debt from the previous admin that got paid off in 2018

I ahve already explained in my previous post why the marketers are 'fradulent'.

You can't really dictate for a capitalist what to decide to use his money for. It's why economics is a social discipline. The capitalist might decide to make money in fuel importation and throw a party or invest in real estate. You can't say with any degree of confidence that every importer will put his excess profit into local refining. Moreso if you realize how expensive it is to build and maintain refineries.

Well, considering we have over 60 people who have applied for licences for refineries....most of whom havent built beause subsidy and price controls makes it not prfitable to do so.

Besides....once subsidy goes, importers would soon be made redundant....as it would eventually become cheaper to refine fuel at home.

'

ve heard this argument of breakeven price so many times and I believe it's the work of some pro-govt voodoo economists who just want to make it seem like our problem is not our politicians but instead the resources available to them. We've never had a budget benchmark of $80 per barrel so I don't get where dis idea of $139 per barrel comes from. That is besides the fact that the informal economy which is far larger than Nigeria's formal economy and from which the bulk of our GDP comes from runs largely unaided by govt. So you begin to wonder where this breakeven price comes from and what exactly they are trying to breakeven.

Nigeria has 200 million people....plus it is very expensive to produce oil in Nigeria....hence the high breakeven prie of oil.

Our govt does not need to take more loans. It should adopt a natural work before you chop mentality instead of the present chop-I-chop one we have. Our govt and the officials are the most subsidized not the citizenry. That's why the money being produced can't provide for subsidizing the govt and the citizen at the same time. The citizens have given way presently.

Then why was your hero GEJ taking loans, and your enemy Buhari taking loans? Because Nigeria has never had a oil price high enough t o breakeven.

Johnrake69:



You're still looking at the problem the wrong way.
What job are we talking about? Nigerian government have no interest in creating jobs.

No average income family will give out inflated contracts to construct his little 3 bedroom bungalow. If the family has unemployed persons they will be involved so they can survive from the project. But that is not the way Nigeria is managed.

Nigeria prefers to export jobs by awarding inflated contracts to companies with little or no pedigree leaving millions of her citizens in abject poverty with no form of employment. Because that's the means for our politicians to cash out.

Who invested in China? It's funny when we believe we must get Foreign Direct Investment. China grew with serious state control of means of production.


And the point of me not liking it when government implements price control if I'm a business man, is really not relevant. I'm a business man. But what the society needs transcends beyond profit. If you leave your economy in the hands of business men, they will rape your economy and move their profits elsewhere to continue their pillaging.

So you would agree if government forces you to sell your good and servies below the wholesale and production price?

okay, got it. You are really altrusitic.

And you would be bankrupt within months..unless you sell your goods on the black marekt, or smuggle them abroad to sell at higher prices.

I don't get you. You want government to bring in price controls in one sector so that you can make money...

mosdii:
We are not even ashamed of ourselves as a major oil producing nation.

Small Niger has a working refinery that refines 20,000 barrels more than the three dormant refineries we have in this country.

Niger will now be supplying us pms...what a shame and disgrace to the almighty giant of Africa.

For Nigeria to agree to a deal like this, there is something fishy or something behind.
Is either the owner of the refinery is a Nigerian (probably a top government official or politician) or it is a tit for tat deal.

For over 60 years of oil exploration in the country, we have not been able to export refined product for once. With this deal now, direct and indirect jobs will be created in Niger, IGR will rise in Niger and also the country's GDP will increase significantly.
Niger is leveraging on the inadequacies of our failed policies.

exactly what came to my mind the very moment i scaned the headline..a nigerian deal hosted in niger to cash out in nigeria again

More and more capital flight. Doesn't this go against the 'closed border' policy of goverment to ease the rampaging balance of trade...

THE PERSONALISATION OF GOVERNMENT.
As long as it suits the interest of one particular person or a powerful group of people, the interests of the nation can go to blazes.

PhiliptheArab:


1.I am aware of all the looting...but even then the amount looted won't be enough to fix things. You need far more money than what has been looted under PDP and APC to have a running and exporting petroleum products industry.

2.We can't fix refineres because subsidies means that fuel would be at the end of the day sold below the production cost.....which means any refinery in Nigeria would be working at a loss and not making enough money to keep functioning properly (which is why all our refinereis are in a mess in the first place.). It is for that same reason that we can't build new refienres. Whybuild a new refinery, refine fuel above N160 NAIRA and sell at N120 NAIRA (labour price ) N90 (Atiku price) N86 (gej supporters price) or N40 (Buhari supporters price).

You won't make a profit to be able to keep the refienry running.

Niger has the same level of crrupt and inefficent leaders...and their fuel industry wroks because the government does not intervene to force fuel to be sold below N150 per liter. Instead they sell fuuel at N350 per liter and earn enough profit to have a great well runnign refinery...that was even built as a JV...and exports to three African countries...Nigeria is no 4.

Yes, our leaders are corrupt...but if you made bread at N200 a loaf, and sold it at N50 a loaf, and acceted a subsidy oof N30 per loaf sold....you won't make enough profit to even fix your machines when they break.

From your point no 1. I don't agree you can compare what APC and pdp has looted so far to the cost of building a refinery.
Dangote a private individual is building a refinery with loans he sourced from Nigeria local banks, CBN, so it is not an excuse to say the FG cannot build a refinery. Recently UBA loan the FG about 2 billion dollars to maintain our refinery up to capacity why is the refineries not up to capacity?

This APC administration in government has source loans claiming that it is to maintain the refineries up to capacity, why is it not up to capacity yet.
Are you aware the dangote refinery will still be selling at international market price despite a functioning refinery at high capacity, so petrol prices will still be the same price despite the high capacity with no subsidies.
Ghana does not have any running refineries yet petrol is sold at 350 naira same with Niger they buy at international price.
Your Nigerian government isn't transparent, they should be transparent and accountable

PhiliptheArab:


So you would agree if government forces you to sell your good and servies below the wholesale and production price?

okay, got it. You are really altrusitic.

And you would be bankrupt within months..unless you sell your goods on the black marekt, or smuggle them abroad to sell at higher prices.

I don't get you. You want government to bring in price controls in one sector so that you can make money...

You're looking at this whole issue from a personal point of view. Sugar and flour has remained almost at same rate in Europe in the last 20years. It was the government that made it possible. No body is forcing anyone to sell anything at any price. And their economy has been stable. When you make a profit of 1€, you will get real value in spending it.

You can't have a stable economy when private sector is in charge of basic needs of the society. The role of government can't be over emphasized. That is my position. But an average business man in Nigeria is blinded with let's increase price to meet cost and make good profit. Forgetting that there is a limit to that thinking.

Why are bakers fighting against new tax imposed on them by the Kogi state government? If they go by your thinking they should simply increase price to meet up. But let them try it and see how demand will drop drastically as people start looking for cheaper alternatives of not staying hungry.

So it's in the interest of a good business man to have a stable economy. I import things from China and I can tell you that most Chinese merchants have been selling their products at same price for more than 5years now same price. They are not even interested in price increment.

Can same be said about Nigeria? Price of rice has done 200% and still moving upwards within the last 5years. With the health of our economy anyone advocating for free market is an enemy of Nigeria and its poor masses.

DamnnNiggarr:


https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/11/just-in-fg-signs-fuel-transportation-storage-deal-with-niger-republic/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

�����
sometimes, I go just dey wonder how we take use our own hand to elect these kind vision less leaders.
where other African countries are looking into green energy and diversification of d economy, these ones are just bent on wasting anything. no wonder dem wan construct railway go reach those countries.
Na God go judge dat angel wey carry me come naija ooooo

Johnrake69:


You're looking at this whole issue from a personal point of view. Sugar and flour has remained almost at same rate in Europe in the last 20years. It was the government that made it possible. No body is forcing anyone to sell anything at any price. And their economy has been stable. When you make a profit of 1€, you will get real value in spending it.

You can't have a stable economy when private sector is in charge of basic needs of the society. The role of government can't be over emphasized. That is my position. But an average business man in Nigeria is blinded with let's increase price to meet cost and make good profit. Forgetting that there is a limit to that thinking.

Why are bakers fighting against new tax imposed on them by the Kogi state government? If they go by your thinking they should simply increase price to meet up. But let them try it and see how demand will drop drastically as people start looking for cheaper alternatives of not staying hungry.

So it's in the interest of a good business man to have a stable economy. I import things from China and I can tell you that most Chinese merchants have been selling their products at same price for more than 5years now same price. They are not even interested in price increment.

Can same be said about Nigeria? Price of rice has done 200% and still moving upwards within the last 5years. With the health of our economy anyone advocating for free market is an enemy of Nigeria and its poor masses.

And the reason why the Chinese economy is that stable is because they depend on domestic manufacturing for local and also as a part of their export revenue

Menaing they have enough cash to keep their economy at an even keel.

Nigeria is an import dependnet economy whose revenue comes from oil.

Unlike china whose revenue comes from manufacturing.

So Nigeria has lower income because oil prices fluctuate. China does not

And then because china is manufacturing well well, they have enough of a surplus to keep prices normal.




Also glad you are an importer. Yet the idea you support of government controlling the economy could in principle mean that government forces you to sell the stuff you imported below the cost you imported it at and they pay you a subsidy that does not cover for your losses.

That's what has been happening in the oil sector, and why it is in the mess it is. And even when we were refining oil at home we sold it at a price below the cost of refining it.

PhiliptheArab:


On the plus side there is enough of a profit for NNPC to actually fix refineries and for refining petrol to become profitable in nigeria

Plis government saves money and reduces its dependence on loans

Public own refineries? I bet it with you, if all Nigeria resources are put into it, it will never work. This present has tried, they saw the handwriting, reason for withdrawal and focusing on private business to run it, same with government generated electricity, it would work unless it is in the hands of TRUSTED private investors. It seems that was the reason why the FG government brought in Siemens private company on a government to government agreement, meaning involving the government of Siemens origin.

SO THATS WHY YOU CONSTRUCTED THE RAIL LEADING INTO NIGER REPUBLIC SO THAT YOU CAN TRASPORT REFINED CRUDE. BUT HOW DOES NIGER REPUBLIC HAVE A REFINERY AND NIGERIA DOES NOT? LIKE SERIOUSLY

PhiliptheArab:


And the reason why the Chinese economy is that stable is because they depend on domestic manufacturing for local and also as a part of their export revenue

Menaing they have enough cash to keep their economy at an even keel.

Nigeria is an import dependnet economy whose revenue comes from oil.

Unlike china whose revenue comes from manufacturing.

So Nigeria has lower income because oil prices fluctuate. China does not

And then because china is manufacturing well well, they have enough of a surplus to keep prices normal.




Also glad you are an importer. Yet the idea you support of government controlling the economy could in principle mean that government forces you to sell the stuff you imported below the cost you imported it at and they pay you a subsidy that does not cover for your losses.

That's what has been happening in the oil sector, and why it is in the mess it is. And even when we were refining oil at home we sold it at a price below the cost of refining it.

My point is the problem of Nigeria has little or nothing to do with price control. Stop the waste in the system and use the money to provide infrastructures that will offer succor to the masses in the face of deregulation. But they don't want to do that.

They want to deregulate leaving the masses to battle with low wages, high cost of food commodities, housing and transportation. It's never going to work.

You talk as if subsidy is a bad thing. It's one of the ingredients that ensures a stable economy when done in a transparent manner. Nigeria has to come up with subsidy for farmers asap or else we will be buying a bag of rice for #50,000 next year.

The American government paid farmers $22 billion last year in subsidy. And this year they are expected to receive about $40 billion. Mind you, America is the headquarters of capitalism.

An average UK citizen has no business with PMS. Most don't even know the price. They don't need it to generate electricity, they really don't need a car too because public transportation is perfect.

Johnrake69:


My point is the problem of Nigeria has little or nothing to do with price control. Stop the waste in the system and use the money to provide infrastructures that will offer succor to the masses in the face of deregulation. But they don't want to do that.

And a lot of the waste is due to subsidy chopping the money that would have been spent on infrastructure.

They want to deregulate leaving the masses to battle with low wages, high cost of food commodities, housing and transportation. It's never going to work

The reason why we have a functioning telecoms sector is because Nigerians tolerated high prices for a few years enabling the teleco companies to earn enough cash to build enough infrastruture to support the telco sector AND eventually prices came down. (mY firt sim cost N7000.My more recent one, bught some seven years later cost 1000.).

You talk as if subsidy is a bad thing. It's one of the ingredients that ensures a stable economy when done in a transparent manner. Nigeria has to come up with subsidy for farmers asap or else we will be buying a bag of rice for #50,000 next year.

In 2012 we were paying N2 as subsidy per liter of fuel. In 2015 it had gone up to N35...plus our income from crude was falling...and we were running into debt keeping the t hing up. And you ask me why subsidy is a bad thing?

The American government paid farmers $22 billion last year in subsidy. And this year they are expected to receive about $40 billion. Mind you, America is the headquarters of capitalism.

And most Americans regard the subsidy as a waste. Plus it is being paid because American agrculture has become so sUCCESSFUL that it runs at a surplus meaning lower prices of crops...bad for business.

An average UK citizen has no business with PMS. Most don't even know the price. They don't need it to generate electricity, they really don't need a car too because public transportation is perfect.

Price of petrol in the UK is 633 naira per liter. And I seem to recall how a price increase over there was news not too long ago...and that's nt the first time.
UK obviously so does not subsidise fuel

Also, electricty works in the UK because the electric companies charge for power aBOVE THE cost of production/generation...and because everyone pays for their power...not like Nigeria where the opposite happens.(IN some parts of Nigeria 50% of the customer base of THE dicos dont pay)

In Nigeria we paid for power at N30 per kwh.(went up to 67 naira PER KWH) In the UK it is N86 per kwh on average. Plus, again in the UK....everyone and his mother PAYS THEIR POWER BILLS. Nothing like illegal connection...and you could get prosecuted for doing that.

As for transport....UK taxes per gdp is 33.5% . Nigeria is 5.8% Thus UK has cash to pay for good public transport...and a bus ticket can cost as high as 500-600 naira per trip.

again, you are suporting a policy of price control that is bad for all business, yours included.

The result of having shameless leaders this APC is just too much...

Something is definitely wrong with Nigeria and the current administration. Yoruba, Igbo and other ethnic groups in southern Nigeria should wake. Everything done in Nigeria and particularly northern region of Nigeria subtly uncovers a strategic plan.

PhiliptheArab:


And a lot of the waste is due to subsidy chopping the money that would have been spent on infrastructure.



The reason why we have a functioning telecoms sector is because Nigerians tolerated high prices for a few years enabling the teleco companies to earn enough cash to build enough infrastruture to support the telco sector AND eventually prices came down. (mY firt sim cost N7000.My more recent one, bught some seven years later cost 1000.).



In 2012 we were paying N2 as subsidy per liter of fuel. In 2015 it had gone up to N35...plus our income from crude was falling...and we were running into debt keeping the t hing up. And you ask me why subsidy is a bad thing?




And most Americans regard the subsidy as a waste. Plus it is being paid because American agrculture has become so sUCCESSFUL that it runs at a surplus meaning lower prices of crops...bad for business.


Price of petrol in the UK is 633 naira per liter

Also, electricty works in the UK because the electric companies charge for power aBOVE THE cost of production/generation...and because everyone pays for their power...not like Nigeria where the opposite happens.(IN some parts of Nigeria 50% of the customer base of THE dicos dont pay)

In Nigeria we paid for power at N30 per kwh. In the UK it is N86 per kwh on average.

As for transport....UK taxes per gdp is 33.5% . Nigeria is 5.8% Thus UK has cash to pay for good public transport...and a bus ticket can cost as high as 500-600 naira per trip.

You still do not get it. Telecom wasn't such a necessity. It was in their interest to have the price crash in order to have more customers. That's what happened with Telecoms. It was that simple, use it if you can afford it and if you can't, life goes on.
No body will clamor for subsidy on cars or Apple phones and the likes. There are still villages in Nigeria without access to network. They still have no business with owning a phone. And that hasn't reduced their life span.

Such a policy can't go into Agriculture, or transportation. How will people feed and go to work earning our minimum wage? Do you ever go to the island and see people trekking when transporters hike price? Your argument might make sense to you probably because you're not at the lowest strata of the society.

You did humor me with the saying about Americans seeing subsidy payment to farmers as a waste. Affordable food prices should be the goal of humanity not profit and all the world powers have strived to achieve that for their people.

There is no world power that does not pay agricultural subsidy and it's not a co incidence.

You prefer not to hold the irresponsible government accountable for the challenges of Nigeria. Rather more austere measures should be implemented to further beggar thy country men. It's sad.

An economy that people keep looting billions with no consequences and you're making analysis about tax to GDP ratio? When more than 50% of your populace are extremely poor?

Johnrake69:


You still do not get it. Telecom wasn't such a necessity. It was in their interest to have the price crash in order to have more customers. That's what happened with Telecoms. It was that simple, use it if you can afford it and if you can't, life goes on.
No body will clamor for subsidy on cars or Apple phones and the likes. There are still villages in Nigeria without access to network. They still have no business with owning a phone. And that hasn't reduced their life span.

Such a policy can't go into Agriculture, or transportation. How will people feed and go to work earning our minimum wage? Do you ever go to the island and see people trekking when transporters hike price? Your argument might make sense to you probably because you're not at the lowest strata of the society.

You did humor me with the saying about Americans seeing subsidy payment to farmers as a waste. Affordable food prices should be the goal of humanity not profit and all the world powers have strived to achieve that for their people.

There is no world power that does not pay agricultural subsidy and it's not a co incidence.

You prefer not to hold the irresponsible government accountable for the challenges of Nigeria. Rather more austere measures should be implemented to further beggar thy country men. It's sad.

An economy that people keep looting billions with no consequences and you're making analysis about tax to GDP ratio? When more than 50% of your populace are extremely poor?

I regard the governmnt wasting money on useless subsides as a sign of their incomeptence.

Infact subsides is one reason why I don't support APC or PDP. It's bad economics, and both of them are doing us a lot of harm keeping it.

And I always laugh when you guys s ay telecoms was not a necessity. It was back then! even now.

Conze:
THEY FINALLY SPONSORED AND BUILT A REFINERY NEARBY AND THEN SEND FINISHED PRODUCT BACK TO NIGERIA.. IT IS WELL

YOU CORRECT!

OLORUN LONDAJO AMEYIN PIRAN. THE LORD WATCHES OVER THE RIGHTEOUS BUT THE WICKED SHALL PERISH.

[This is the summary of the news, very smart northern Elites]THEY FINALLY SPONSORED AND BUILT A REFINERY NEARBY AND THEN SEND FINISHED PRODUCT BACK TO NIGERIA.. IT IS WELL[/quote]

Imagine how stupid the people must be for the government to be confident enough to report this scam as a positive.

Niger republic is able to build a functional refinery, why all of ours are damaged by corruption, the same corruption that has stopped government fixing it, has also stopped them building new ones.

419 of the century, the mumu citizens will come on here and start fighting themselves because of tribe or political affiliations while they the corrupt government rob you all blind.

PhiliptheArab:


We can't 'repair our refinereis' because fuel subsidy means that the refienreis would be producing fuel at a loss....making even repairs look like money being wasted.

For over 40 years we have been selling fuel at a loss. So long as we made enough income from oil, we got away with it...until the 1990's when problems started.

The crude oil belongs to us, so
refining it & selling at affordable rate
to the citizens should not be seen as
a loss especially as civil servants &
other class of workers are working for
government at a loss, since the pay
doesn't meet basic human survival
needs.

Remember we also land the imported
products at a loss since, apart from other
expenses, we also pay shipping & ports
handling costs & other levies to
source countries.

adecz:



The crude oil belongs to us, so
refining it & selling at affordable rate
to the citizens should not be seen as
a loss especially as civil servants &
other class of workers are working for
government at a loss, since the pay
doesn't meet basic human survival
needs.

What?

So if government refines fuel at N200 and sells fuel at N40 per liter...where are they going to get the money to pay for maintenance, expand the refinery, etc, etc. Even pay workers self? Shebi they should take another loan?

They should just refine fuel and give to people cheap?

Bros, that is why we are in the position we are now. Government has been selling fuel below the cost of production for decades...meaning that there is no profit to fix, renovate refinereis as well as build new ones.

Niger can afford a refinery SIMPLY because they sell fuel at a unaffordable price...meaning they have profit that can be poured into keeping up the refinery and making it work well.

remember we also land the imported
products at a loss since, apart from other
expenses, we also pay shipping & ports
handling costs & other levies to
source countries.

Yes i know that, but we cannot then refine fuel at home for N165 per liter...which is what NNPC says it would cost if we refine at home...and sell it at N40 per liter which is what most of you want. We would be running the petrol busienss at a loss.

[quote author=PhiliptheArab post=96259953]

What?

So if government refines fuel at N200 and sells fuel at N40 per liter...where are they going to get the money to pay for maintenance, expand the refinery, etc, etc. Even pay workers self? Shebi they should take another loan?

They should just refine fuel and give to people cheap?

Bros, that is why we are in the position we are now. Government has been selling fuel below the cost of production for decades...meaning that there is no profit to fix, renovate refinereis as well as build new ones.

Niger can afford a refinery SIMPLY because they sell fuel at a unaffordable price...meaning they have profit that can be poured into keeping up the refinery and making it work well.



Yes i know that, but we cannot then refine fuel at home for N165 per liter...which is what NNPC says it would cost if we refine at home...and sell it at N40 per liter which is what most of you want. We would be running the petrol busienss at a loss.


The Petroleum sector should be viewed holistically.

Are we not selling crude crude to earn foreign exchange income? You talk as if Nigeria's source of income comes from selling petrol to citizens. Shouldn't citizens benefit from what the country has in abundance?

Many countries that have oil in large quantities have low domestic pump prices. But the sadistic APC loves to suffer us. See food prices, abi yam , rice, beans, ogbono are also imported?

For your information, it costs less than $5 for a large refinery to refine a barrel of oil. Are you even aware that the so-called illegal refineries in the Niger Delta sell oil to dealers & even major marketers at less than N60/ litre.

Why should we be quoting international prices for our citizens, something we have locally? Our current situation is that the govt is loaded with incompetent people that lack vision.
Don't forget that the half educated Buhari is Minister of Petroleum.


You appear to be slightly knowledgeable, don't allow yourself to be brainwashed by cheap government propaganda.

Johnrake69:


You still do not get it. Telecom wasn't such a necessity. It was in their interest to have the price crash in order to have more customers. That's what happened with Telecoms. It was that simple, use it if you can afford it and if you can't, life goes on.
No body will clamor for subsidy on cars or Apple phones and the likes. There are still villages in Nigeria without access to network. They still have no business with owning a phone. And that hasn't reduced their life span.

Such a policy can't go into Agriculture, or transportation. How will people feed and go to work earning our minimum wage? Do you ever go to the island and see people trekking when transporters hike price? Your argument might make sense to you probably because you're not at the lowest strata of the society.

You did humor me with the saying about Americans seeing subsidy payment to farmers as a waste. Affordable food prices should be the goal of humanity not profit and all the world powers have strived to achieve that for their people.

There is no world power that does not pay agricultural subsidy and it's not a co incidence.

You prefer not to hold the irresponsible government accountable for the challenges of Nigeria. Rather more austere measures should be implemented to further beggar thy country men. It's sad.

An economy that people keep looting billions with no consequences and you're making analysis about tax to GDP ratio? When more than 50% of your populace are extremely poor?

extremely well said