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When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? - Programming - Nairaland

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When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by progeek37(m): 5:15pm On Dec 01, 2020
How long does one has to program or how many softwares does one has to build to be called a programmer? This a question beginners need an answer to. They want to know when they should start applying for job as programmers. I will answer this question based on my accumulated experience so far in this field. When can you start telling yourself, your friends and family that you are a programmer? Do you need to show them the web application or mobile application that you have built? Of course, faith without work as they say, is dead, you really need something to show. But when we examine carefully what tech companies look for in an interview, we can see that their view on who a programmer is, is different from this general conception . Let's consider these two, the same thing applies to all tech companies including Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Dropbox etc

Job Interviews at Google

100% of the questions at job interviews for software engineers at Google, Zurich, are about data structures, algorithms and algorithmic thinking. At such an interview you may have to implement on a white board a linked list or come up with an algorithm for filling a raster polygon (given in the form of a GIF image) with some sort of color using for example BFS(Breadth-first search). It seems like Google are interested in hiring people who can think algorithmically and who have a grasp of basic data structures and computer algorithms. Any technology that candidates would afterwards use in their line of work can be quickly learned.

Job Interviews at Microsoft
A lot of questions at job interviews for software engineers at Microsoft, Dublin, focus on data structures, algorithms and algorithmic thinking. For example, you could be asked to reverse the words in a string or to implement topological sorting in an undirected graph. Unlike Google, Microsoft asks a lot of engineering questions related to software architectures, multithreading, writing secure code, working with large amounts of data and software testing.

With these two, we came to a conclusion. One becomes a programmer when he has a solid grasp of algorithms and data structures. This is what being a programmer means, being able to command a computer what you want it to do through your code. Whatever technology you will use can easily be learnt once you grasp concept.

As improbable as it might seem to you, the basic principles of writing computer programs have not changed all that much in the past 15 years. Programming languages change, technologies get modernized, integrated development environments get more and more advanced but the fundamental principles of programming remain the same. When beginners learn to think algorithmically, and then learn to divide a problem instinctively into a series of steps to solve it, as well as when they learn to select the appropriate data structures and write high-quality programming code that is when they become programmers. Once you acquire these skills, you can easily learn new languages and various technologies – like Web programming, HTML5 and JavaScript, mobile development, databases and SQL, XML, REST, ASP.NET, Java EE, Python, Ruby and hundreds more.

14 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by progeek37(m): 8:37am On Dec 03, 2020
Beginners need to pay more attention on algorithms and data structures.
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Geedy: 10:40am On Dec 03, 2020
How do one think algorithmically?

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by pajosh(m): 10:58am On Dec 03, 2020
Geedy:
How do one think algorithmically?

Break big problems into smaller chunks ... example: if I want to kill a snake .. I need a device to do that ... I'll then as myself .. which would be better ? a knife or stone or a gun? ... my best option might be a gun .. I'll then ask myself .. Do I have a gun? .. if No .. what else do I have? then I'll use the alternative ...

if yes ? does my gun have bullets loaded ?

.....and so ooo on ...

Learn to solve a programming problem with a real life scenario .... it helps you to understand the problem before solving it.

That's step One

please any one with other better solutions ?? ... please let's help each other

9 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by cixak95211: 2:54pm On Dec 03, 2020
^ where shall i shoot this snake? head, mid-section or tail?
how many bulllets do i have? how many am i allowed to expend?
are the neighbors allowed to hear the shot? or should i use a suppressor?
do i bury the snake after killing it or leave it to rot?
what if the gun jams? what r my escape options?
the list is endless . .

u dont just take the shot, and walk away, at least, that's not how computer programs work
you must always think outside the box, for issues, popularly known as "edge cases"

8 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Karleb(m): 4:06pm On Dec 03, 2020
This is why implementation should be done using frameworks.

Before you make a gun after 2 months, the snake might have bitten everyone in the village.

5 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by pajosh(m): 5:00pm On Dec 03, 2020
cixak95211:
^ where shall i shoot this snake? head, mid-section or tail?
how many bulllets do i have? how many am i allowed to expend?
are the neighbors allowed to hear the shot? or should i use a suppressor?
do i bury the snake after killing it or leave it to rot?
what if the gun jams? what r my escape options?
the list is endless . .

u dont just take the shot, and walk away, at least, that's not how computer programs work
you must always think outside the box, for issues, popularly known as "edge cases"

nice one bro... thanks alot
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by pajosh(m): 5:10pm On Dec 03, 2020
Karleb:
This is why implementation should be done using frameworks.

Before you make a gun after 2 months, the snake might have bitten everyone in the village.

mmm yeah ... Good call brother ...but apply caution while using frameworks ...is d snake too big? ..if yes ? use a gun . ... if no? why waste bullet ... use knife ....

2 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by logicDcoder(m): 10:53pm On Dec 03, 2020
Guys I need someone who will explain what time complexity(Linear time, quadratic time, logarithmic time etc.). It has been holding me back since. Learning data structures and its implementations + Algorithms are very easy.
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by cixak95211: 6:04am On Dec 04, 2020
logicDcoder:
Guys I need someone who will explain what time complexity(Linear time, quadratic time, logarithmic time etc.). It has been holding me back since. Learning data structures and its implementations + Algorithms are very easy.

shocked shocked shocked

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Geedy: 9:41am On Dec 04, 2020
pajosh:


Break big problems into smaller chunks ... example: if I want to kill a snake .. I need a device to do that ... I'll then as myself .. which would be better ? a knife or stone or a gun? ... my best option might be a gun .. I'll then ask myself .. Do I have a gun? .. if No .. what else do I have? then I'll use the alternative ...

if yes ? does my gun have bullets loaded ?

.....and so ooo on ...

Learn to solve a programming problem with a real life scenario .... it helps you to understand the problem before solving it.

That's step One

please any one with other better solutions ?? ... please let's help each other
Wow! Thanks so much sir
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Harkstetunz: 10:14am On Dec 04, 2020
cixak95211:
^ where shall i shoot this snake? head, mid-section or tail?
how many bulllets do i have? how many am i allowed to expend?
are the neighbors allowed to hear the shot? or should i use a suppressor?
do i bury the snake after killing it or leave it to rot?
what if the gun jams? what r my escape options?
the list is endless . .

u dont just take the shot, and walk away, at least, that's not how computer programs work
you must always think outside the box, for issues, popularly known as "edge cases"
grin grin You guys are amazing






grin grin You guys are amazing

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by logicDcoder(m): 10:18am On Dec 04, 2020
cixak95211:


shocked shocked shocked

Hmmmm
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Etinosa12345: 10:25am On Dec 04, 2020
But is it only google and microsoft that give jobs?

there might be some companies that may just want to see ur work and ask a few questions.

besides data structures are hard tho

is it bad if a person can create apps or websites but he is not too good in data structures
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by cixak95211: 10:49am On Dec 04, 2020
Etinosa12345:
But is it only google and microsoft that give jobs?

is it bad if a person can create apps or websites but he is not too good in data structures

The reason why those coys emphasize on super-solid knowledge of DSAs is that they serve billions of users, so a little second wasted to bad algorithm can easily blow into minutes or hours of standby.
Take a look at the image I posted, about 186million result in less than half a second.
Do you feel that data is being kept inside a simple array and then a for loop is done.?
How would you feel having to do a search and waiting for about 3 minutes to get your results?
The short answer is , when an app will serve at least hundreds of thousands of people concurrently, you must pay strict
attention to advanced DSAs.
For a simple app, it doesnt matter, as the effect of bad code will not be felt.

12 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Karleb(m): 11:22am On Dec 04, 2020
The elders have spoken.

186 million data in a foreach loop in the best language will be like driving a Ferrari from Lagos to New York.
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by pajosh(m): 7:44am On Dec 05, 2020
cixak95211:


The reason why those coys emphasize on super-solid knowledge of DSAs is that they serve billions of users, so a little second wasted to bad algorithm can easily blow into minutes or hours of standby.
Take a look at the image I posted, about 186million result in less than half a second.
Do you feel that data is being kept inside a simple array and then a for loop is done.?
How would you feel having to do a search and waiting for about 3 minutes to get your results?
The short answer is , when an app will serve at least hundreds of thousands of people concurrently, you must pay strict
attention to advanced DSAs.
For a simple app, it doesnt matter, as the effect of bad code will not be felt.

God bless you sir ... You've spoken well... i can recall..DSA took a lot of my time ...and its worth it .. had to pause everything to learn it.

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by tensazangetsu20(m): 10:26am On Dec 05, 2020
cixak95211:


The reason why those coys emphasize on super-solid knowledge of DSAs is that they serve billions of users, so a little second wasted to bad algorithm can easily blow into minutes or hours of standby.
Take a look at the image I posted, about 186million result in less than half a second.
Do you feel that data is being kept inside a simple array and then a for loop is done.?
How would you feel having to do a search and waiting for about 3 minutes to get your results?
The short answer is , when an app will serve at least hundreds of thousands of people concurrently, you must pay strict
attention to advanced DSAs.
For a simple app, it doesnt matter, as the effect of bad code will not be felt.
This is very true. I don't even think loops are used on large data sets. I tried building a prime number multiplication table using nested for loops and it would crash if you asked for multiplication tables of prime numbers above 2000. Advanced data structures and algorithms are very important for that kind of thing.
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Drybones: 7:59pm On Dec 05, 2020
Lemme add my own.

Regarding frameworks, they are built to solve new problems.
Frameworks are built by people (most times sponsored by large companies and group programmers who are Google workers standard).

Most of the tools we use are created by programmers with good knowledge of algorithm and data structure, what we the copy and paste programmers do is to apply the tools.


And we the copy and paste programmers don't solve new problems,we just make few changes to frameworks.


For programmers to solve new problems (most of which are currently solved by Google and Large tech companies) we need to have good knowledge of algorithm and data structures.

2 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by progeek37(m): 5:32pm On Dec 10, 2020
Geedy:
How do one think algorithmically?
Practice more and get a tutor who is grounded on algorithm and data structure. You may subscribe to Zoom meeting
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by progeek37(m): 11:06pm On Jan 03, 2021
My live Zoom tutorial is available now, to subscribe send me a WhatsApp message.
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Nobody: 1:35am On Jan 15, 2021
progeek37:
My live Zoom tutorial is available now, to subscribe send me a WhatsApp message.
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by progeek37(m): 3:42pm On Jan 16, 2021
Skyvexkent:


09033026089.
Send me a message on WhatsApp 08135683431
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by progeek37(m): 3:19pm On Mar 01, 2021
Join my tutorial to learn algorithm and data structures in 3 months, message me on WhatsApp 08135683431

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Sososo(f): 12:10am On Mar 02, 2021
progeek37:
How long does one has to program or how many softwares does one has to build to be called a programmer? This a question beginners need an answer to. They want to know when they should start applying for job as programmers. I will answer this question based on my accumulated experience so far in this field. When can you start telling yourself, your friends and family that you are a programmer? Do you need to show them the web application or mobile application that you have built? Of course, faith without work as they say, is dead, you really need something to show. But when we examine carefully what tech companies look for in an interview, we can see that their view on who a programmer is, is different from this general conception . Let's consider these two, the same thing applies to all tech companies including Amazon, Facebook, Apple, Dropbox etc

Job Interviews at Google

100% of the questions at job interviews for software engineers at Google, Zurich, are about data structures, algorithms and algorithmic thinking. At such an interview you may have to implement on a white board a linked list or come up with an algorithm for filling a raster polygon (given in the form of a GIF image) with some sort of color using for example BFS(Breadth-first search). It seems like Google are interested in hiring people who can think algorithmically and who have a grasp of basic data structures and computer algorithms. Any technology that candidates would afterwards use in their line of work can be quickly learned.

Job Interviews at Microsoft
A lot of questions at job interviews for software engineers at Microsoft, Dublin, focus on data structures, algorithms and algorithmic thinking. For example, you could be asked to reverse the words in a string or to implement topological sorting in an undirected graph. Unlike Google, Microsoft asks a lot of engineering questions related to software architectures, multithreading, writing secure code, working with large amounts of data and software testing.

With these two, we came to a conclusion. One becomes a programmer when he has a solid grasp of algorithms and data structures. This is what being a programmer means, being able to command a computer what you want it to do through your code. Whatever technology you will use can easily be learnt once you grasp concept.

As improbable as it might seem to you, the basic principles of writing computer programs have not changed all that much in the past 15 years. Programming languages change, technologies get modernized, integrated development environments get more and more advanced but the fundamental principles of programming remain the same. When beginners learn to think algorithmically, and then learn to divide a problem instinctively into a series of steps to solve it, as well as when they learn to select the appropriate data structures and write high-quality programming code that is when they become programmers. Once you acquire these skills, you can easily learn new languages and various technologies – like Web programming, HTML5 and JavaScript, mobile development, databases and SQL, XML, REST, ASP.NET, Java EE, Python, Ruby and hundreds more.
i already started off on web programming and mobile app dev.does it mean this ones are not in high demand?
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Sososo(f): 12:15am On Mar 02, 2021
can one learn different programming languages eg python, web programming, mobile app dev and some others at same time without getting it mixed up or are they intertwined
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by jelel6: 5:40pm On Mar 03, 2021
Sososo:
can one learn different programming languages eg python, web programming, mobile app dev and some others at same time without getting it mixed up or are they intertwined

I don't know the reasons why you want to learn programming. But I think for most people, they learn because they want to make a career out of it. So, on that note, I'll try to answer your question:

Yes, one can learn different things together, but it's highly undesirable and won't help you go far.

Programming is a problem solving technique used in many different Fields (such as: Mobile, Web, Systems, Development. Etc.). The major element of PROGRAMMING is a programming language like Python you have mentioned. Python it self can be be applicable to solve problems in many different Fields.

Now, a company will want to hire you because you can solve problems for them. The more challenges you prove to them you can solve, the more likely they'll want to employ you. And you want to do that within the shortest amount of time possible. Now, these areas like Web and mobile are very wide and you'll never be able to know everything about any one of them even if you study for 100 years. Imagine moving from one place to another every single week? That is not the most effective and efficient use of your time and efforts.

Instead, pick one and stick to it until you master it and get a paying job. From there, you'll be able to make informed decisions because your wisdom is broader. I'll advise you pick web development first since it has more jobs on the market than Mobile development.

As for the materials, you can learn everything easily on the web for free. The only thing is that you just have to look for learn resources yourself and put them together to form a comprehensive knowledge base. You can go on a site like Udemy and pay for a video course if you think you can learn better that way.

Good luck on your journey.

2 Likes

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Sososo(f): 8:21am On Mar 04, 2021
jelel6:


I don't know the reasons why you want to learn programming. But I think for most people, they learn because they want to make a career out of it. So, on that note, I'll try to answer your question:

Yes, one can learn different things together, but it's highly undesirable and won't help you go far.

Programming is a problem solving technique used in many different Fields (such as: Mobile, Web, Systems, Development. Etc.). The major element of PROGRAMMING is a programming language like Python you have mentioned. Python it self can be be applicable to solve problems in many different Fields.

Now, a company will want to hire you because you can solve problems for them. The more challenges you prove to them you can solve, the more likely they'll want to employ you. And you want to do that within the shortest amount of time possible. Now, these areas like Web and mobile are very wide and you'll never be able to know everything about any one of them even if you study for 100 years. Imagine moving from one place to another every single week? That is not the most effective and efficient use of your time and efforts.

Instead, pick one and stick to it until you master it and get a paying job. From there, you'll be able to make informed decisions because your wisdom is broader. I'll advise you pick web development first since it has more jobs on the market than Mobile development.

As for the materials, you can learn everything easily on the web for free. The only thing is that you just have to look for learn resources yourself and put them together to form a comprehensive knowledge base. You can go on a site like Udemy and pay for a video course if you think you can learn better that way.

Good luck on your journey.
thanks.i already started with web dev like you suggested and im doing it in a school like setting. i hope to delve into python soon when im done with web dev .

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Emmanuel224(m): 6:49pm On Mar 04, 2021
pajosh:


Break big problems into smaller chunks ... example: if I want to kill a snake .. I need a device to do that ... I'll then as myself .. which would be better ? a knife or stone or a gun? ... my best option might be a gun .. I'll then ask myself .. Do I have a gun? .. if No .. what else do I have? then I'll use the alternative ...

if yes ? does my gun have bullets loaded ?

.....and so ooo on ...

Learn to solve a programming problem with a real life scenario .... it helps you to understand the problem before solving it.

That's step One

please any one with other better solutions ?? ... please let's help each other
gooday sir, do I need a laptop of my own to start programming, Even if I'll enrole in a computer school?
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by pajosh(m): 10:00pm On Mar 04, 2021
Emmanuel224:

gooday sir, do I need a laptop of my own to start programming, Even if I'll enroll in a computer school?

while some people would say you don't .. the truth I'd you definitely need one ... even if it is d smallest of laptops in capacity

1 Like

Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by Emmanuel224(m): 8:56am On Mar 05, 2021
pajosh:


while some people would say you don't .. the truth I'd you definitely need one ... even if it is d smallest of laptops in capacity
I'm grateful sir, I dumped school to take programming as a second hustle amidst the business I'll b establishing, hope I won't regret?
Re: When Does A Beginner Become A Programmer, And Should Start Applying For Jobs? by omobamatrix: 8:33pm On Mar 05, 2021
Emmanuel224:

I'm grateful sir, I dumped school to take programming as a second hustle amidst the business I'll b establishing, hope I won't regret?
If you have a business then sch might not mean much. but sch cert is a prerequisite for getting professional programming jobs. You can consider taking a computer science degree along side your business.

1 Like

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