Jones4190:
Jesus was not poor because he received lucrative gifts -- gold, frankincense and myrrh -- at birth. Jesus was wealthy because the Roman soldiers who crucified him gambled for his expensive undergarments. Even Jesus' parents, Mary and Joseph, lived and traveled in style,
"Mary and Joseph took a Cadillac to get to Bethlehem because the finest transportation of their day was a donkey, "Poor people ate their donkey. Only the wealthy used it as transportation."
another point to consider is that Jesus had a treasurer, or a "keeper of the money bag."
"The last time I checked, poor people don't have treasurers to take care their money,"
also the scriptures says the Roman soldiers gambled for Jesus' clothing while he hung on the cross. They wouldn't gamble for Jesus' clothing unless it was expensive.
"That might be a fine stuff he wore.
Jesus never would have had disciples or a large following if he was poor. He would not have been able to command their respect.
"The poor will follow the rich, the rich will follow the rich, but the rich will never follow the poor.
Even Jesus' own words prove that he wasn't poor.
"Jesus said you will always have the poor, but you will not always have me, "Jesus did not affirm himself as being part of the poor class...
"I believe he was the richest man on the face of the earth because he had God as his source,"

Roman soldiers gambled on his clothes to mock him, they were his killers and humilators and they wouldn't consider his mere clothes valuable if they could do such to him (casting lots was to share pieces of the cloth essentially destroying it)

He received Gold, Frankincense, myrr, as a child then how come he and his father were still Carpenters when he grew up.

Poor people ate their donkey (can you quote where the Bible told you this)

Donkey just like camel in Arabia was primary means of transportation, it was the very least in use except you wanted Joseph to carry his heavily pregnant wife on his back in a far journey just to prove to you he is poor.

How come this rich family suddenly didn't have money to find befitting place to Lodge until they settled for animal stable.

Poor people don't have treasurer, if the treasury was his he would have sent it to the professional money keepers who kept personal funds (he couldn't send a spiritual organization fund in the keeping of wordly money keeper).

The poor would follow the poor, rich follow rich how come all his followers who followed him to the mount had no food to eat( he also didn't have to give all of them untill he performed a miracle)

The poor would always be in your midst how does this characterization of an adjective of people correlate with the statement of a man.

Was Jesus as a man on Earth ever going to stay forever in comparison to an adjective of people that is bound to be continuous i.e (rich, poor, patient, evil, etc that exists in every race )

Regene2020:
I agree i think the question wasn't whether he was comfortable but whether he was rich?

No body argues that Jesus wasn't comfortable, he had ardent followers that would have given him basics stuffs (not flamboyancy).

One of his followers was Joseph of Arimathea who took his body down, washed it, wrapped it in new clothes in a special grave.

Jesus got heroric welcome from followers at the triumphant entry.

Mary and her sisters always came to wash him with perfume all the days they could after his death.

Mary and her sisters would also have been given him food when he was with them too.

So no one can say he wasn't comfortable

I perfectly agree with you.

Jesus's wealth and asset was the PEOPLE and not MATERIAL collections.

shadeyinka:

I perfectly agree with you.

Jesus's wealth and asset was the PEOPLE and not MATERIAL collections.

Correct, his wealth and asset was the people.

The people gave him out of the compassion of just the basic necessities he needed not on Christ compulsion.

But today's supposed leaders in Christ want to justify their craving to compete with the leaders of this world by turning Christ doctrine on its head

Regene2020:
Correct, his wealth and asset was the people.

The people gave him out of the compassion of just the basic necessities he needed not on Christ compulsion.

But today's supposed leaders in Christ want to justify their craving to compete with the leaders of this world by turning Christ doctrine on its head

Thanks Bro!
May God heal His Church and deliver us from wolves in sheep skin. AMEN!

My own Church is waxing stronger and stronger under the supervision of the faithful and discreet slave of Jesus known as the GOVERNING BODY of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
No wolves is allowed to lead after Jesus' return in spirit into the midst of his congregation since 1919!
You can say we are worshiping the Organization but we know our God whom we worship! Isaiah 54:17, 65: 13-14

shadeyinka:

Thanks Bro!
May God heal His Church and deliver us from wolves in sheep skin. AMEN!

MaxInDHouse:
My own Church is waxing stronger and stronger under the supervision of the faithful and discreet slave of Jesus known as the GOVERNING BODY of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
No wolves is allowed to lead after Jesus' return in spirit into the midst of his congregation since 1919!
You can say we are worshiping the Organization but we know our God whom we worship! Isaiah 54:17, 65: 13-14

I do not dispute whatever your claim is under your god and saviour the Jehovah's Witness Organisation!

I can understand my friend, I CAN UNDERSTAND!
Psalms 23:1-6, 133:1-3

shadeyinka:

I do not dispute whatever your claim is under your god and saviour the Jehovah's Witness Organisation!

MaxInDHouse:
My own Church is waxing stronger and stronger under the supervision of the faithful and discreet slave of Jesus known as the GOVERNING BODY of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
No wolves is allowed to lead after Jesus' return in spirit into the midst of his congregation since 1919!
You can say we are worshiping the Organization but we know our God whom we worship! Isaiah 54:17, 65: 13-14

I really respect Jehovah's witnesses over all categories of Christians.

Throughout the world people know USA as the world's strongest nation and ironically their motto says "in God we trust" but does that mean each American citizen is faithful, loyal and obedient as a citizen of the state? The answer is NO!
So what is unique about this country?
It's the policy that's keeping the country waxing stronger and stronger than ever before.

The same thing happens to Jesus' Organization, each of us in the group aren't perfect as most people assume we must be but we have the one and only pure worship from God so no matter how imperfect we are the Organization will continue to shine due to the SPIRIT permeating our midst! John 17:20-23 compare to Matthew 5:13-16

False religious groups will also try to perform due to the niceness of certain ones in their midst but since the spirit of God is not working with them they will continue to SCATTER! Luke 11:23

That's the Secret!

Thazard:

I really respect Jehovah's witnesses over all categories of Christians.

Better question would be "is jesus really a historical figure?"

Prove that first..

The only reason to believe that Christopher Columbus once walked this planet is because he discovered America and America is still with us till today!
So it's funny how a man could have lived and died for almost 1500 years before Columbus and much more popular than Christopher Columbus even having millions of disciples (adherents of his teachings) yet he never existed!

sonmvayina:
Better question would be "is jesus really a historical figure?"
Prove that first..

MaxInDHouse:
The only reason to believe that Christopher Columbus once walked this planet is because he discovered America and America is still with us till today!
So it's funny how a man could have lived and died for almost 1500 years before Columbus and much more popular than Christopher Columbus even having millions of disciples (adherents of his teachings) yet he never existed!

Lol...that does not answer my question. Show me one peace of document that his name that is not from a christian source...

Can you show me any document containing the Torah apart from Jewish source?

sonmvayina:

Lol...that does not answer my question. Show me one peace of document that his name that is not from a christian source...

MaxInDHouse:
The only reason to believe that Christopher Columbus once walked this planet is because he discovered America and America is still with us till today!
So it's funny how a man could have lived and died for almost 1500 years before Columbus and much more popular than Christopher Columbus even having millions of disciples (adherents of his teachings) yet he never existed!

You’re even going too far my brother. The vast majority of people today believe Grecian philosophers like Plato, Socrates, Anaximenes, Aristotle and even Philo(contemporary of Jesus)
who are normally described as “Critical thinkers” all existed yet their teachings had no profound impact on anyone or the society. They were just conveyors of empty words and void precepts. Compare Colossians 2:8

Meanwhile, many today allude that Jesus Christ whom the Bible describes as “Wonderful Counsellor”[Isaiah 9:6] did not walk this earth whereas his own teachings and ideologies had more than significant impact on the great number of crowds who listened to him. Matthew 7:28-29, John 7:46.
The famous “Sermon on the Mount” lecture given by Jesus is a testimony to that since several upbuilding principles were laid down for Christian life and worship. Matthew 5-7


Satan has definitely been working overtime to see to it that the proud and haughty ones remain in spiritual blindness. 2Corinthians 4:4

Thazard:


As in financially rich?

Finance/Money is Lie and The Lord does not work with Lies!

Which is why He said
"Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price."

It is not money that solves problems, The Lord Jesus is The True Problem Solver and The One who has it All hence He is King Provider, Jehovah Jireh!

So, The Lord can not have any need for shitty things Most Especially as He had made A Good Law on which and for which there can be an exchange of goods and services but typical of evil men, they have disobeyed The Lord, changed His Laws and created their own means of Stealing people's goods called money.

shadeyinka:

The creator of the heaven and the earth couldn't have lacked anything He wanted! However, Jesus did not live like a wealthy man and he didn't own things that will make anyone consider him as wealthy.

If Jesus was in our generation, he probably will have enough influence to get Him anything He wanted BUT will not personally own most of the things we see our rich people owning. In other words, he would probably fly in helicopters, planes, cars and ship that he doesn't own. He would probably live in a rented house and not build churches. Jesus's investment was more on people rather than material assets.

Pastors who live flamboyant lives would want to portray Jesus as a materially Rich and wealthy man (so as to justify their own flamboyant lifestyle) but no: Jesus seem to live a simple lifestyle. He had the power to turn baskets of rocks and dirts int GOLD but he would rather send Peter to draw out the first fish in whose mouth is money enough to pay for just two people (with no excess)!

But Jesus did not live in Poverty or Penury: that will be completely wrong belief system.

The following are some of the reasons why I believe Jesus was rich:

The wise men from the East made Jesus wealthy at his birth, the book of Matthew proves that Jesus was the recipient of wealth at his birth.

“In the book of Matthew in Chapter 2, the kings came to him, and they bought him gold, frankincense and myrrh.”

Jesus had so much money that he needed a treasurer: The New Testament describes Judas as the “treasurer” for Jesus’ disciples. “Why would a band of 12 men need a treasurer if they didn’t have some treasures, “You need a treasurer when you have surplus.”

Jesus wore expensive clothes: In the 19th chapter of John’s Gospel, the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus are depicted gambling for his “seamless” undergarment. Jesus wore garments that were a “nobleman’s garments.” “If his clothes were a poor man’s clothes, why would centurions gamble for it?”

In Mark 14:3-7. Jesus is dining in the home of Simon the leper in Bethany when a woman came with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure spikenard and broke the vial and poured the contents over His head. There were some that were indignant and said, “Why has this perfume been wasted? For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred pence, and the money given to the poor”. Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to me. For the poor you always have with you , and whenever you wish, you can do them good: but you do not always have Me.” Jesus did not count Himself among the poor because Jesus was not poor! He was not necessarily wealthy (in natural terms) but Jesus Was Not Poor! — The Disciples Were Not Poor!

A young and vibrant man in his early thirties had no house, wife, child or business apart from going from house to house, village to village and city to city only to preach and teach people about God. If he leaves this place now there is no asset in his name.
My guy let's not deceive ourselves he was poor as in POOR! Luke 9:58
99.9999% of people claiming Christians today will never wish their life to be like that of Jesus of Nazareth, even most mothers will not pray for such a child!

Jones4190:

The following are some of the reasons why I believe Jesus was rich:

The wise men from the East made Jesus wealthy at his birth, the book of Matthew proves that Jesus was the recipient of wealth at his birth.

“In the book of Matthew in Chapter 2, the kings came to him, and they bought him gold, frankincense and myrrh.”

Jesus had so much money that he needed a treasurer: The New Testament describes Judas as the “treasurer” for Jesus’ disciples. “Why would a band of 12 men need a treasurer if they didn’t have some treasures, “You need a treasurer when you have surplus.”

Jesus wore expensive clothes: In the 19th chapter of John’s Gospel, the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus are depicted gambling for his “seamless” undergarment. Jesus wore garments that were a “nobleman’s garments.” “If his clothes were a poor man’s clothes, why would centurions gamble for it?”

In Mark 14:3-7. Jesus is dining in the home of Simon the leper in Bethany when a woman came with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure spikenard and broke the vial and poured the contents over His head. There were some that were indignant and said, “Why has this perfume been wasted? For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred pence, and the money given to the poor”. Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to me. For the poor you always have with you , and whenever you wish, you can do them good: but you do not always have Me.” Jesus did not count Himself among the poor because Jesus was not poor! He was not necessarily wealthy (in natural terms) but Jesus Was Not Poor! — The Disciples Were Not Poor!

MaxInDHouse:
Can you show me any document containing the Torah apart from Jewish source?

Never heard of the Enuma Elish, the cybil oracle, the metu neter.

The laws of God is universal. That man choose to break them just like you are doing by following an idol created by Rome does not negate its validity.

God wrote them in our heart.

The highlighted!

So each person can determine his/her own way to apply it practically shey?

sonmvayina:


Never heard of the Enuma Elish, the cybil oracle, the metu neter.

The laws of God is universal. That man choose to break them just like you are doing by following an idol created by Rome does not negate its validity.

God wrote them in our heart

MaxInDHouse:
A young and vibrant man in his early thirties had no house, wife, child or business apart from going from house to house, village to village and city to city only to preach and teach people about God. If he leaves this place now there is no asset in his name.
My guy let's not deceive ourselves he was poor as in POOR! Luke 9:58
99.9999% of people claiming Christians today will never wish their life to be like that of Jesus of Nazareth, even most mothers will not pray for such a child!

Guy take it easy to avoid blasphemy!

Blasphemy is speaking against established fact of sacred secrets!

Let's call a spade a spade Jesus of Nazareth was POOR he may be rich in the spirit realms but here on this planet Jesus never had a single asset, is that not what people use to rate someone's riches?

That's what has been causing confusion and blasphemy in churches of Christendom today, their religious leaders are telling them that worldly possessions is God's blessings yet Jesus never had any. So instead of focusing on the assignment Jesus gave his followers that makes them Christians billions are thinking they have to be as rich as Abraham!

Thazard:

Guy take it easy to avoid blasphemy!

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted!

So each person can determine his/her own way to apply it practically shey?

That would lead to chaos, dont yoi think so. That is what we are trying to eliminate in tbe first place.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization have taken care of that amongst all the adherents but instead of appreciating them you're saying Jesus is not real, so let each person continue applying whatever he or she finds WRITTEN in his or her heart!

In the heart of over 9,000,000 JWs Jesus name is boldly written so we live for him who died for us, so go and work on how to avoid chaos since the laws you wish is written in your heart!

sonmvayina:

That would lead to chaos, dont yoi think so. That is what we are trying to eliminate in tbe first place.

MaxInDHouse:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization have taken care of that amongst all the adherents but instead of appreciating them you're saying Jesus is not real, so let each person continue applying whatever he or she finds WRITTEN in his or her heart!

In the heart of over 9,000,000 JWs Jesus name is boldly written so we live for him who died for us, so go and work on how to avoid chaos since the laws you wish is written in your heart!

Did you even go to school at all(sorry to ask)?

You dont sound like somebody who is educated...and lack understanding.

Isn't it God who created us like this? I said the aim is to live in peace. Before the coming of the white men with their bibles, our society has laws, statues, traditions and customs that every one adheres to. This is basically to maintain law and order in the society.
Most of these cultures usually pass these laws through moon light stories and mythologies. That the jews wrote theirs down in other to have consistency those not mean others cultureas got it wrong.

My point. Gods laws are universal and same through out, some people just choose break them..
But our ultimate aim is to achieve peace. At the end of the day..the spirit(God's breath or active force)will return to him and the body to the earth...

Fully understood Sir!

So i chose the JW Organization as they're able to make PEACE reign amongst themselves, you too are free to choose either the Jewish Torah or Tales by moonlight if it's meeting your expectations as well!

sonmvayina:


Did you even go to school at all(sorry to ask)?

You dont sound like somebody who is educated...and lack understanding.

Isn't it God who created us like this? I said the aim is to live in peace. Before the coming of the white men with their bibles, our society has laws, statues, traditions and customs that every one adheres to. This is basically to maintain law and order in the society.
Most of these cultures usually pass these laws through moon light stories and mythologies. That the jews wrote theirs down in other to have consistency those not mean others cultureas got it wrong.

My point. Gods laws are universal and same through out, some people just choose break them..
But our ultimate aim is to achieve peace. At the end of the day..the spirit(God's breath or active force)will return to him and the body to the earth...

Jones4190:

The following are some of the reasons why I believe Jesus was rich:

The wise men from the East made Jesus wealthy at his birth, the book of Matthew proves that Jesus was the recipient of wealth at his birth.

“In the book of Matthew in Chapter 2, the kings came to him, and they bought him gold, frankincense and myrrh.”

Jesus had so much money that he needed a treasurer: The New Testament describes Judas as the “treasurer” for Jesus’ disciples. “Why would a band of 12 men need a treasurer if they didn’t have some treasures, “You need a treasurer when you have surplus.”

Jesus wore expensive clothes: In the 19th chapter of John’s Gospel, the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus are depicted gambling for his “seamless” undergarment. Jesus wore garments that were a “nobleman’s garments.” “If his clothes were a poor man’s clothes, why would centurions gamble for it?”

In Mark 14:3-7. Jesus is dining in the home of Simon the leper in Bethany when a woman came with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure spikenard and broke the vial and poured the contents over His head. There were some that were indignant and said, “Why has this perfume been wasted? For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred pence, and the money given to the poor”. Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to me. For the poor you always have with you , and whenever you wish, you can do them good: but you do not always have Me.” Jesus did not count Himself among the poor because Jesus was not poor! He was not necessarily wealthy (in natural terms) but Jesus Was Not Poor! — The Disciples Were Not Poor!

Unfortunately, you compare Jesus to Pastors who have laid their treasures here on earth.
No one has said that Jesus was POOR either!

2Cor 8:9:
"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might be rich."

What does this scripture mean?

It means that Jesus didn't live like a rich man like many of our Pastorpreneurs!

The question really is, how is a rich man known?
1. A rich man is known by his house!
Jesus didn't build any houses.
Luk 9:58:
"And Jesus said to him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man has not where to lay his head."
2. A rich man is known by his store of wealth in properties:

If Jesus was rich, how come Mary had to be taken care of by John after His death?
John 19:26-27:
"When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he said to his mother, Woman, behold your son! Then said he to the disciple, Behold your mother! And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home."

Jesus's treasures wasn't in materials. It was in people. He was connected with both the rich and the poor.


3. Rich people enjoyed comfort:
How many times did you read that Jesus organized a party or celebrations in his house from the scriptures?
Luk 16:19:
"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:"

4. If Jesus was rich at birth, how come he was described as a carpenter's Son?

The word rendered as carpenter is not even like the modern day carpenter. It was culturally like a handyman. A person who goes from house to house mending broken things.
Mat 13:55:
"Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brothers, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?"

5. Having an Association purse doesn't translate to riches!

I belong to many associations where we have treasurers. Does it imply that each association had treasurers because they had much money?

If Jesus was rich, then he doesn't need a treasurer. All his disciples just needed to ask him (the rich man) to have their needs met. LOL!

6. The gift of Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh doesn't translate to riches:

I have bought my wife Gold rings and jewelleries, does it imply that we are rich?
The bible didn't describe the quantity of gifts the wise men brought, did it?

6. The perfume used on Jesus's feet wasn't His:
The perfume belonged to the woman and not to Jesus

Mar 14:3:
"And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she broke the box, and poured it on his head."

7. Let's look at Jesus's Dress:
Luk 23:11:
"And Herod with his men of war set him at nothing, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate."

Can you see where that seamless cloth of Christ came from?



8. Jesus's needs were met by people, not from his store of wealth:

Mat 27:55-56:
"And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him: Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children."




Finally, I have NOT said that Jesus was POOR, but He wasn't rich either. Jesus had His needs met by people and He didn't store or accumulate such instead, He taught

Mat 6:19:
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust does corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:"

Rich men always laid up treasures on earth. Do you know any rich man with no properties?


Modern day pastors like to teach that Jesus was rich to justify their flamboyant lifestyles!
#He traveled mostly on foot: why didn't he move in a convoy of chariots?
#He taught in borrowed fishing boats: why didn't He buy proper cargo boats?
#He borrowed the donkeys: didn't he have His horses?
#He borrowed the upper room: did he not have his own cathedral halls?
#He didn't carry about bags of Gold to pay his taxes: did He not have to ask Peter to go fishing for the money?
#How come Jesus didn't have security men and soldiers guarding him?

Do you know that Jesus did not even pay for his disciples tour of evangelism?
Mat 10:9-11:
"Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor money for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat . And into whatever city or town you shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till you go there."


Shalom!

Hmmn. I love your use of irony

Thazard:




Ha my front of my back!

Hmmn. I love your use of irony[quote author=Thazard post=98701808]