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Kenyan Puts Up His Kidney For Sale To Raise Money For His Brother’s School Fees / 'I Will Rather Be Without A Child Than Have Only Girl Kids' - Nigerian Man / "Parents!, Never Show Much Love To A Child Than The Rest!" (2) (3) (4)
|Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 3:57am On Feb 22|
An African friend always argue that kids are better of raised in Africa. He said he'd send his two boys to Nigeria so they'd know what life is all about. I asked him "what life is all about", he said hardship, blackouts, etc. He said kids raised in the Americas aren't respectful and organized cause they didn't suffer. And that brings me to the topic of this thread. Is the Nigerian style of raising kids really the ideal model? I just want to share my opinion on the things my friend mentioned as reasons to send his boys to Africa: respectful and organized and the need to "suffer small" (his words).
Respectful: In the Nigerian society, elders don't usually explain to kids why they shouldn't do some things; they just authoritatively ask them not to do it and the kids better not ask why. Kids grow up respecting thier elders out of fear (and not admiration or love). The implication of this is that they do a lot things without their patents' knowledge, and they get used to this "hidden lifestyle" that makes it almost impossible for parents to truly know thier children. This in turn denies the parents the opportunity to identify and correct some unwanted behaviours as the kids always tell them just what they want to hear. And then it's only a matter of time before some of these kids outgrow the fear and reveal their true personalities (good luck with your mystery parcel at this point). Whereas in the Americas, kids are engaged and not commanded. You can easily tell the direction your child is headed.
Organized: He said kids raised in Africa are more organized and not crazy like their American counterparts who do all sorts of things like tattoos, plastic surgery, etc. Yes, Americans have a lot of deviants, but that's why new ideas/findings pop up everyday. I believe Africans force thier youngsters to fit into a predefined pattern of life and thereby reducing the chances of creativity. In Africa, you are supposed to go to school, get a job, get married and make children (and there are ages for all these). Then your children will do the same and the cycle continues. This "organised" pattern is the African dream; it is more important than any other dream or even the world itself, and any deviation is frowned upon. Africans think it's a crazy for a man to dedicate his life to studying mosquitoes even if that's his dream (yet Africans are the most affected by these killer insects), Africans think it's crazy for a woman to say she ain't getting married but would rather use her money to adopt and raise orphaned kids. A friend I was teaching software development had to quit cause "he didn't have time anymore". According to him, he had gotten to the age of marriage. And you wonder why nothing spectacular comes out of this continent? Alternative lifestyles might be scary but that's the wheel of progress.
"Suffer small": This one makes me laugh and I usually use it to tease my friend. Kids don't need to suffer small. Kids need the skills that would make them survive in their environment. If carrying water, fighting for a bus, using candles and going to the farm equip the child for the African life, great (just don't overdo it). But that's not necessarily a model. It's something they do out of necessity. A kid who is born in North America does not need to go to Africa to "suffer small". I don't even own a bucket as an adult and I'll probably never buy one. A kid born here needs DIY skills amongst others.
I don't have a problem with some people wanting their kids to go to Africa to learn thier culture but I don't subscribe to the idea that kids raised in Africa are better off. What do you think?
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Klass99(f): 4:13am On Feb 22|
What's going on with you? Is the matter too weighty to start writing?
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 4:45am On Feb 22|
Klass99:Sorry, I got distracted.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by madridguy(m): 4:50am On Feb 22|
Part of what determine a man's life is society but to me with proper upbringing one could raise a child without the child being influenced negatively with what he/she sees around.
I would like to use Mushin area of Lagos as an example. If you live in Lagos you will understand what its means to tagged someone as Omo-Mushin especially in the 90s.
But believe me, I've met countless of people born and raised at Mushin but they're as calm as someone raised in G.R.A Ikeja.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 5:14am On Feb 22|
I've had this argument several times. Our pride is all we've got going for us as Africans but we should know when to draw the line. You want to send a child to Africa at his formative age knowing fully well that that's exactly when he needs to be enjoying all the western world has to offer? Foundations are laid in secondary schools, don't let your child miss out on that. Americans are known for inventions while Nigerians are known for scamming. Stereotyping is wrong cause we have both good and bad people everywhere but think about it, are kids really better of in a country like this? I don't think. I think a kid that will be good will be good regardless of where he's raised.
For those (actually one guy) offended by the post above, I wasn't stereotyping. I was only trying to point out a contrary perception. Nigerians are not all scammers even though they're scammers amongst us. Likewise, American kids aren't all spoilt even thought they're spoilt ones amongst them. It's all stereotyping and the point I was making is, if you're running away from a stereotypical America, what about the stereotypical Nigeria?
And for information sake, I don't subscribe to the idea that Nigerians are treated differently in western world. Apart from places where identity is crucial (airports, embassies, etc), a white man sees all blacks as blacks regardless of where you come from (especially in big diverse cities). At least, I've never experienced that. So when I say "Nigerians are known as scammers", it's born out of the disposition of some international organisations like PayPal, WES, etc. towards the country. It's almost like the country has a bad name but the people aren't necessarily sieved out when outside.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Klass99(f): 5:25am On Feb 22|
@ Topic, I am undecided but something an Arab cabbie in the UK said to a friend has stuck with me.
He said, in all his time of being a cabbie conveying people/families around, he noticed that kids of indians and asians, held on to their cultural values, tend to be respectful and not easily influenced or carried away by the negative aspects of Western culture.
However, when it came to us Africans (he specifically mentioned Nigeria and other African countries) he noticed our kids tend to be disrespectful, eager to embrace the negative aspects of western culture and discard theirs, while the parents seem overwhelmed and at a loss on how best to handle their own kids.
He went on to narrate an interaction between a son and a mother in his cab of Nigerian origins that enraged him and broke his heart at the same time, but he stayed out if it. The boy was being extremely rude to his mother to a point where she became teary and all.
I truly don't know which climate is better for raising kids, but that cabbie's observations was or is food for thought. I like what the person above me (etrange) said particularly in her last sentence
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 5:45am On Feb 22|
That's an interesting take and it's probably not far from the truth. Some people from 'closed cultures' feel liberated when they move to a society where diversity in terms of personality and lifestyle is ok. They don't have to worry about what people will say anymore. You know, just like a 'caged' child who recently got into the university.
But Asians have closed cultures too. Perhaps, the existence of well established Asian communities (China town, Punjabi areas, schools, etc) in the western world makes thier case different.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 5:50am On Feb 22|
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 5:53am On Feb 22|
Well said, bro.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by tommy589(m): 6:07am On Feb 22|
Most of those Indians and asians have religions that are indigenous to them. And much emphasis is on sacredness of family, culture and respect in those religion.
Respect starts with good morning greetings with stooping. If this basic foundation is lost mostly we won't get a child upbringing right, irrespective of our location. At least there are reasons we bend sometimes when we shake hands
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Klass99(f): 6:14am On Feb 22|
No way! I suspected you were male but my very biased mind thought, only a woman can make such an intelligent comment
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 6:20am On Feb 22|
Hhmm... is this really a factor? Islam may not be originally African but I don't think a Nigerian child born into Islam and and an Indian Child born into Hinduism are any different in terms of how they perceive their religion. I mean, the muslim child doesn't get less indoctrinated because the religion didn't originate from his place. Just thinking
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 6:24am On Feb 22|
I'm actually happy to know Nairaland women still have thier self esteem up there despite the way they are ridiculed onhere by thier male counterparts.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Uyi168: 7:18am On Feb 22|
I won't raise my kids here...
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Mikester(m): 7:32am On Feb 22|
From my perspective, I will say it depends on the parents raising the child and not necessarily the environment, though the environment is also an undisputed factor in a child's upbringing, but the parental factor determines the outcome of the child more.
Speaking of environment, Nigeria was once a good ground for a child's moral upbringing as it unapologetically shunned deviant behaviours till it imitated the negative lifestyle of the west which I dare say is decadent (showing more interest in pleasure and enjoyment than moral standards).
This singular act brought about a proliferation of decadence and debauchery amongst the multitudes including the teenagers and children alike.
Children and teens alike learn more by imitation. Teens are dealing with a huge amount of social, emotional and cognitive flux and have underdeveloped abilities to cope. They need their parents, those people with the more stable adult brain to help them by staying calm, listening and being good role models but due to the decadence in the land and nonchalance of most parents, we have the defective children we have now.
These are things we know deep down within us.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by madridguy(m): 8:06am On Feb 22|
Though I have not been outside Nigeria before but what the Arab cabbie said is absolutely correct. I can remember clearly a thread on this platform where the UK police held a seminar with Nigerian women living in the UK to stop sending their husband away.
Many comments on the thread broke my heart and I can't imagine what Nigerian men are suffering in the hand of their wives simply because they know the law in western countries favor women.
My point is that no way a woman can raise a child alone. On the same thread also, many people shower their praises on Asian women, pointing out how submissive they are despite earning well more than Nigerian women.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 9:16am On Feb 22|
I appreciate this input but I don't really think Nigerian men are "suffering" in the hands of thier women abroad. At least, none of my friends is. No woman really wants her husband to suffer. Anybody that leaves out here can tell you both men and women must work hard to sustain the family. It is not very practical to expect the man to pay all the bills considering the income/expense structure. Likewise, it's unfair to expect a woman who works the number of hours you work to always do the cooking, serve you, do the laundry, clean the house, prepare the kids for school, etc. like they're expected to do in Africa. Everybody has to adjust. Problem arises when one party refuses to adjust. In addition, both spouses have equal rights to the house and no one has the right to kick the other out without a court order. And to obtain a court order, you'd have to prove the other partner is abusive or constitutes a threat. So anyone "kicked out" was either abusive or just decided to give the other some space.
Despite everything you've heard, except in child custody cases, the legal system in the US/Canada isn't necessarily structured to favour women. It only tries to give both genders equal footing. I said 'try' cause in reality, only the legal systems in Belgium, Denmark, France, Latvia, Luxembourg and Sweden claim absolute equality today. Women are better off today that they were yesterday but still very far from being equal to men. For someone from Africa, it's understandable how any legal system that advocates for equality would appear as if it's in favour of women considering the African culture. But marriage works like friendship here, they can last forever without the dom/sub relationship and at the same time, anyone can pull out anytime.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 10:15am On Feb 22|
It has quickly become a woman thing. Nairaland men always quick to call out the opposite gender at the slightest provocation. Oga, how many of your relatives abroad have been kicked out of thier houses by their wives? How man Nairalanders have been kicked out of thier houses by thier wives? Which law permits a woman to kick out her husband at will? Can you details out how the legal system favours women to men in marriage?
African men find it hard to come to terms with the fact that this is not Africa where they get away with anything. Women and men have equal rights. You don't hit someone and walk away. If you don't want to pay huge alimony in the case of divorce, let your wife work like you do and share the housekeeping with her. Everything is based on the concept of equality. So let's stop "we men are the victims abroad" narrative. The truth is is that we aren't used to the egalitarian system
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 10:20am On Feb 22|
OK, nice input as well.
Ok... let's not make this another women/men debate. I'm more interested in knowing if raising a kid in Nigeria is really better. And though I visit Nigeria often enough, I'd like to hear from those who live or lived in the country.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by madridguy(m): 10:23am On Feb 22|
Don't take this too personal bro. Search for the video on YouTube and stop attacking me as if I'm the UK police that told Nigeria women to stop calling them for their husband.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 10:35am On Feb 22|
I wasn't attacking. And sorry if that's the impression I gave.
@bolded, you had earlier said "stop kicking thier husbands away" and I was trying to say that doesn't happen as often as it's portrayed. Immigrant women still suffer domestic violence all over the US and hardly speak up despite the laws against it. That's probably due to thier cultural backgrounds.
The police doesn't assume the person that called is automatically the victim. When the police is invited, it's usually to settle the dispute and not to arrest the man. The man is only arrested in the case of domestic violence against the caller (his husband or his wife as the case may be) and the police will never tell women to stop calling for such cases. I'd like to see the video nevertheless. Maybe the police men were tired of being called into minor misunderstandings.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by DontBullshitMe: 11:10am On Feb 22|
I like what I have read.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by crackhaus: 11:32am On Feb 22|
The earlier that you lots get to understand that most Nigerians of southern origins, generally have deep-seated issues of inferiority complex, the faster you'll understand that the western system is NOT the problem at all.
The same way Nigerians migrate, live and raise kids in these countries, is the same way Asians and Middle-easterners do.
Yet for some reason, those races still breed kids that generally adhere to their ancestral lifestyles and overall behaviour in terms of attitude and disposition, despite living their entire lives in western societies.
The difference in the respective outcomes above, is all the answer that you seek.
And yup, I specifically alluded to Nigerians of southern origins in my first paragraph, on purpose.
There is something about children raised in Islam (the true tenets of Islam) that makes them remain very well-behaved regardless of where they spent their formative years (Africa or the West).
An African friend always argue that kids are better of raised in Africa. He said he'd send his two boys to Nigeria so they'd know what life is all about. I asked him "what life is all about", he said hardship, blackouts, etc. He said kids raised in the Americas aren't respectful and organized cause they didn't suffer.If anyone said this to me, I would ask him to first go to his Asian/Middle-eastern friends, then ask them what they are doing that makes their own kids respectful and organized.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by descarado: 12:12pm On Feb 22|
crackhaus:Oil dey your head
I wouldn't have explained this better.
Sometimes I'm in complete shock on how black man behaves out there. And u are so correct, the northerners dont have time with this nonsense.
The inferiority complex is too overwhelming. More than how an average income earner bows to somebody he assumes or see that's better than him. Or is it our ladies?
In Nigeria alone we are forming team foreign accent.
An Indian, Chinese etc is in far away America still cruising his accent while in naija, I want to speak English more than the queen.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by crackhaus: 12:25pm On Feb 22|
I believe that as Nigerians, we just love to have it both ways all the time. The same Nigerians who prefer to live a life of unbelief and would rather do away with religions that instill positive values, also turn around to complain that their children are not respectful and well-behaved.
I wonder where these children are supposed to learn good behaviour and morals from when they were not introduced to and made to adhere to any religion that espouses such.
The assumption that just the words and corrections from a parent would be enough to keep a 21st century child in line, is foolhardy.
The real questions should be;
What has a parent taught their child(ren) to believe in?
What higher power do they revere?
Do these children feel obligated to live according to the tenets of this higher power?
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by crackhaus: 12:53pm On Feb 22|
descarado:Amazing, isn't it?
You'll see a 10year old son/daughter of first generation Chinese, French, Japanese, Thai, or Indian immigrants, speaking their local dialect so fluently... While their 10yr old Nigerian counterparts can't make a complete sentence in Yoruba, Igbo, or Bini, without reverting to English.
And who is to blame for this?
The same immigrant parents who end up complaining of course. Most have the mentality that anything of Nigerian origin is below par and of no significance, so they end up raising children who have been stripped of all cultural, religious, and indigenous values.
The consequence of the above is that it leaves a vacuum in these children, and makes it easy for them to assimilate what we love to call "western" behaviour.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by BigDawsNet: 3:23pm On Feb 22|
Yes, Nigeria is a good place if you are rich
We have couple of reserved area for the rich and wealthy in Lagos ,Abuja
This kids live a foreign life in Nigeria
They have access to everything you can have access to in abroad while inn nigeria
They are fresher than kids in North America
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Nobody: 3:27pm On Feb 22|
The best upbringing is mainly African with occasional trips abroad to open their eyes to possibilities.
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|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 4:06pm On Feb 22|
You may have some point given the fact that Asians don't usually think about sending thier kids home except when the family wants to travel. But then, that could also be because Asians have much elaborate communities in the western world than Africans do. You can't hardly see a big city without it's own China town. I heard even Lagos has one. There are many Asian schools where their languages are used. Bedsides, English is our national language unlike these people you mentioned.
But these aside, what's your take on sending kids home at thier teenage age? Does it really make them better?
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 4:18pm On Feb 22|
Lmao... This part got me laughing.
Ok. I don't know about accents but speaking clearly such that others won't have a problem understanding you is very important if one intends to live in any of the 6 countries where English is native, and I think Africans do it better. I can go on about how difficult it could be to understand a first generation immigrant from India but I don't want to sound racist.
So you think it's cool to send kids to Africa at thier teenage age?
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Nobody: 4:25pm On Feb 22|
Each has its pros and cons.
|Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 4:34pm On Feb 22|
Hhmm... I don't really know why people tend to believe the US is irreligious. It's only a very small part of the population that identifies as atheist. The country is secular in the sense that religion isn't used as the basis for making laws. But the citizens have and maintain their respective religions.
Again, do you really think the parents need religion as a tool to make thier kids respectful? I personally don't think morality is primarily function of religion. But that's just a personal opinion. I don't think any people in the world are as polite as Canadians (sometimes, the over politeness could be sickening if not deceiving). But yet, they are North Americans.
So would you send your kids to Africa like my friend plans to do?
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