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Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 1:37pm On Apr 08
shadeyinka:

Like I said, you can't box me into what you consider as appropriate for your own consumption.
Take it or leave it!
Here's what I don't get. You don't seem to care that I mention that God commanded it be so....why? undecided

I mean I have mentioned 2 pivotal commandments from the same Bible as far as the doctrines and views of men are concerned, and you don't seem to care at all. Instead you seem more interested in continuing to believe and push on as you were, why?

Just curious is all.
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 1:48pm On Apr 08
Kobojunkie:
Here's what I don't get. You don't seem to care that I mention that God commanded it be so....why? undecided

I mean I have mentioned 2 pivotal commandments from the same Bible as far as the doctrines and views of men are concerned, and you don't seem to care at all. Instead you seem more interested in continuing to believe and push on as you were, why?

Just curious is all.
A hold ALL scriptures in equal esteem. I do not question the fact that the Psalms were not written by David alone nor that the first five books of Moses were not written by Moses Alone. I believe that ALL scriptures complement each other for the same purpose.

NOW,
God did NOT dictate any chapter of the Bible, therefore your so called literally command of God is meaningless except it is viewed as a report from men of what God said.

How do you treat the book of
1. 1 and 2 Peter
2. Jude,
3. Revelation,
4. Hebrew
5. 1,2, & 3 John
Are they also words of men?
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 1:57pm On Apr 08
shadeyinka:

A hold ALL scriptures in equal esteem. I do not question the fact that the Psalms were not written by David alone nor that the first five books of Moses were not written by Moses Alone. I believe that ALL scriptures complement each other for the same purpose.

NOW,
God did NOT dictate any chapter of the Bible, therefore your so called literally command of God is meaningless except it is viewed as a report from men of what God said.

How do you treat the book of
1. 1 and 2 Peter
2. Jude,
3. Revelation,
4. Hebrew
5. 1,2, & 3 John
Are they also words of men?
* But all scriptures don't complement each other.

* Ok, I see that it means nothing to you that God included His law of 2 or 3 witnesses(in similar forms) in both His Old and His New Covenant, something that I believe means it is of great importance since not all commandments are found to be listed in both the Old and the New Covenants. undecided

* The law mentioned, as I already stated, is meant to be applied to every view expressed that is not directly given of God Himself - .i.e. not directly declared as the Word of God.

* Common sense kicks in for me where the book of Revelations is concerned. Just as I would not apply a literal interpretation to that which I have read from the book of Enoch, I stay away from doing the same where the dream/vision of John is concerned. undecided

P.S. Paul also wrote the letters to the Hebrews.
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 2:23pm On Apr 08
Kobojunkie:
* But all scriptures don't complement each other.

* Ok, I see that it means nothing to you that God included His law of 2 or 3 witnesses(in similar forms) in both His Old and His New Covenant, something that I believe means it is of great importance since not all commandments are found to be listed in both the Old and the New Covenants. undecided

* The law mentioned, as I already stated, is meant to be applied to every view expressed that is not directly given of God Himself - .i.e. not directly declared as the Word of God.

* Common sense kicks in for me where the book of Revelations is concerned. Just as I would not apply a literal interpretation to that which I have read from the book of Enoch, I stay away from doing the same where the dream/vision of John is concerned. undecided

P.S. Paul also wrote the letters to the Hebrews.
You didn't answer the questions
How do you treat the book of
1. 1 and 2 Peter
2. Jude,
3. Revelation,
4. Hebrew
5. 1,2, & 3 John
Are they also words of men?


and
BTW, Hebrew was not written by Paul. The style of writing is completely different. The author of Hebrews is unknown till now.

1 Like

Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 2:26pm On Apr 08
shadeyinka:

You didn't answer the questions
How do you treat the book of
1. 1 and 2 Peter
2. Jude,
3. Revelation,
4. Hebrew
5. 1,2, & 3 John
Are they also words of men?

and
BTW, Hebrew was not written by Paul. The style of writing is completely different. The author of Hebrews is unknown till now.
I did answer your question.
Kobojunkie:

* The law mentioned, as I already stated, is meant to be applied to every view expressed that is not directly given of God Himself - .i.e. not directly declared as the Word of God.

* Common sense kicks in for me where the book of Revelations is concerned. Just as I would not apply a literal interpretation to that which I have read from the book of Enoch, I stay away from doing the same where the dream/vision of John is concerned. undecided

P.S. Paul also wrote the letters to the Hebrews.
It is the same law of 2 or 3 witnesses where the views of men are concerned. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 2:31pm On Apr 08
Kobojunkie:
I did answer your question. It is the same law of 2 or 3 witnesses where the views of men are concerned. undecided
So they are words of men!
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 2:38pm On Apr 08
shadeyinka:

So they are words of men!
I don't remember reading anything like "Thus saith the Lord God of Host..." anywhere in those letters, do you? undecided

It is a simple formula. God is True and so the Word of God(declarations attributed to God Himself) is Truth. Anything else is to be parsed by applying the law of 2 or 3 witnesses. undecided

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Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 3:13pm On Apr 08
Kobojunkie:
I don't remember reading anything like "Thus saith the Lord God of Host..." anywhere in those letters, do you? undecided

It is a simple formula. God is True and so the Word of God(declarations attributed to God Himself) is Truth. Anything else is to be parsed by applying the law of 2 or 3 witnesses. undecided
The same now apply to most of the Old Testament scripture
Psalms
Songs of Solomon
Judges
etc

Your rule is warped my dear. Except you want to reduce the scriptures to portions where "God said....!"
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 3:25pm On Apr 08
shadeyinka:

The same now apply to most of the Old Testament scripture
Psalms
Songs of Solomon
Judges
etc

Your rule is warped my dear. Except you want to reduce the scriptures to portions where "God said....!"
I do not understand what you are saying. undecided

The law of 2 or 3 witnesses is included in both the Old and New Covenants, meaning it ought to apply to views written of even in the Old Testament(not excluding extra-biblical scriptures), as it should also be applied in every New testament writing.undecided

So how exactly did you arrive at declaring a law given by God as being warped? undecided

I get the feeling that you think this is some "fight" against Paul and the views he expressed in his letters, when it instead should be more about knowing the Truth where God, and the things of God is concerned. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 6:38pm On Apr 08
It is fun to listen to two blind men with zero knowledge of God fight it out. Kobojunkie, i kind of understand your stand. It is not so different from mine in the sense that we know where to draw the line. You so desperately want to believe that jesus has something to do with the new convenant but you are yet to produce one single story in the old testament to justify it. My own stance is that God gave mankind his laws which is basically to help us leave in peace ans have a more fulfilling life. The jews, indians , babylonians wrote it down but the rest tribe passed theirs from words of mouth from generation to generation.

Because man is simply Spirit of God + dust of the earth. Death is just spirit returning to God and body back to earth from where it was taken.

So jesus talking about people going to hell should have been a red flag for any sensible human being. But you desperately want to accept even when it is against reason and good judgement. So please jesus and everything he represent is idolatry. God warned us in the 10 commandment " do not make the image or likeness of anything in heaven or on earth or under the waters bellow the earth, do not bow down to them or serve them..so reverencing a god in the image and likeness of a man(something that is found on earth) can not be from God or have Gods approval.

If you can just see the so called new testament for the insult on God and the propaganda it contains. You wil truely be free and safe...


You are almost there you need to study and do a research. Do not be scared to take huge decision espercially when it concerns your life...


I pray Hashem opens your eyes and mind..
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 7:13pm On Apr 08
sonmvayina:
It is fun to listen to two blind men with zero knowledge of God fight it out. Kobojunkie, i kind of understand your stand. It is not so different from mine in the sense that we know where to draw the line. You so desperately want to believe that jesus has something to do with the new convenant but you are yet to produce one single story in the old testament to justify it. My own stance is that God gave mankind his laws which is basically to help us leave in peace ans have a more fulfilling life. The jews, indians , babylonians wrote it down but the rest tribe passed theirs from words of mouth from generation to generation.
Because man is simply Spirit of God + dust of the earth. Death is just spirit returning to God and body back to earth from where it was taken.
Remember when I said earlier to read the book? I meant that so we can in fact be on the same page as far as this topic is concerned. When your "stance" is declared and defined only in your mind, what am I supposed to do with it? undecided

As for producing for you a single story in the OT to justify my belief in the New Covenant(Jesus Christ), I am afraid you have no need for that. I don't so desperately need to believe in Jesus Christ that I would desperately waste my time arguing Him with a one who doesn't care for Him in the first place. I already believe in and Know God Himself through Jesus Christ and that is all I need. Just as He declared through His prophets, He is the one and only Teacher/Shepherd/Master over those who belong to Him in His New Covenant.... He literally possesses you via His Spirit to do that. grin
sonmvayina:
So jesus talking about people going to hell should have been a red flag for any sensible human being. But you desperately want to accept even when it is against reason and good judgement.
In the Old Covenant(YHWH), those who were of the blood of Jacob and died in their sins perished in their graves(their souls extinguished forever), but in the New Covenant(Jesus Christ), those who believe but refuse to obey the commandments are to be punished in Hell for their sins. Are you suggesting that there is no punishment for sins in the Old Covenant(YHWH) or something? undecided
sonmvayina:
So please jesus and everything he represent is idolatry. God warned us in the 10 commandment " do not make the image or likeness of anything in heaven or on earth or under the waters bellow the earth, do not bow down to them or serve them..so reverencing a god in the image and likeness of a man(something that is found on earth) can not be from God or have Gods approval.
Again, that warning was not given to you but to those of the Blood of Jacob of which you are not. undecided

Deuteronomy 30 vs 15-20 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. “Today I have given you a choice between life and death, success and disaster.
16. I command you today to love the Lord your God. I command you to follow him and to obey his commands, laws, and rules. Then you will live, and your nation will grow larger. And the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take for your own.
17. But if you turn away from your God and refuse to listen, if you are led away to worship and serve other gods,
18. you will be destroyed. I am warning you today, if you turn away from God, you will not live long in that land across the Jordan River that you are ready to enter and take for your own.
19. “Today I am giving you a choice of two ways. And I ask heaven and earth to be witnesses of your choice. You can choose life or death. The first choice will bring a blessing. The other choice will bring a curse. So choose life! Then you and your children will live.
20. You must love the Lord your God and obey him. Never leave him, because he is your life. And he will give you a long life in the land that he, the Lord, promised to give to your ancestors—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
God refused to include you and your kind in His Old Covenant(YHWH), so why do you desperately try to include yourself in what He, God, did not see fit to include you in ?undecided
sonmvayina:
If you can just see the so called new testament for the insult on God and the propaganda it contains. You wil truely be free and safe...
You are almost there you need to study and do a research. Do not be scared to take huge decision espercially when it concerns your life...I pray Hashem opens your eyes and mind..
I think you need to worry instead about your own sight. Pray that your Hashem opens your own eyes to the delusion that you have chosen to wrap yourself in instead. This is why I said you should read the book for yourself. undecided

I am a gentile of strongly gentile roots - I don't need to delude myself into thinking I have and share anything with those of the house of Jacob where God is
concerned - and I am right where I need to be, thank you very much!undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 7:48pm On Apr 08
Kobojunkie:
I do not understand what you are saying. undecided

The law of 2 or 3 witnesses is included in both the Old and New Covenants, meaning it ought to apply to views written of even in the Old Testament(not excluding extra-biblical scriptures), as it should also be applied in every New testament writing.undecided
By this every verse should be tested by your theory.

Kobojunkie:

So how exactly did you arrive at declaring a law given by God as being warped? undecided
I said YOUR ideas/understanding of the scriptures are warped!

Kobojunkie:

I get the feeling that you think this is some "fight" against Paul and the views he expressed in his letters, when it instead should be more about knowing the Truth where God, and the things of God is concerned. undecided
The truth of Gods word is summed up in ALL scriptures!
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 8:00pm On Apr 08
shadeyinka:

By this every verse should be tested by your theory.
I said YOUR ideas/understanding of the scriptures are warped!
The truth of Gods word is summed up in ALL scriptures!
Yes, every verse needs to pass muster, before it is accepted as Truth. That is why I like to joke that context is King, even when reading your bible. undecided
Well, as I said, that commandment, which I choose to obey is a part of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, the very same who declared the following to you

Matthew 4 vs 4 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. But he answered, “It is written,“‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
What Jesus Christ didn't say there is "...every word that is written in your scripture", instead He declared that you live by "... every word that comes out of the mouth of God".

And your claim that the Truth of God is summed up in all of the Scriptures is erroneous, for if this were true, Jesus Christ would not have come declaring Himself the Word out of God's own mouth. undecided

John 14 vs 6 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me. .
Did you know that even the Pharisees wrote "scripture"? undecided

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