mamatwiny:
Truth is that it is unpaid in even developed countries. It is a placement.

But if I were a medical doctor, nothing will ever make me practise in Nigeria.

Can you cite specific examples please? on what you call placement, because last i checked, a licensed MD holder earns in the US, same with an M.B.B.S holder in UK or in INdia doing the so called placement you mentioned.

PAWG:
What’s good for Bala is good for Bulus, doctors should finish school/training before being paid please. FG and states can’t keep paying these guys to carry file and and be moving about aimlessly in public hospital wards.

Spite me of you may, I’ve said it

When i started typing to reply you, i just got weak, and realized, that you display of ignorance is not worth a reply. Doctors carrying file aimlessly. Aswear Nigerians don't deserve doctors.

If this is true. Then the number of fresh doctors in the Nigerian healthcare is about to be halved or even worse.

PAWG:
What’s good for Bala is good for Bulus, doctors should finish school/training before being paid please. FG and states can’t keep paying these guys to carry file and and be moving about aimlessly in public hospital wards.

Spite me of you may, I’ve said it

Herein you see a guy who applied to study Medicine but couldn't make the cutoff mark and finally ended up studying Biochemistry.

lebete3000:
No way it won't get there if it hasn't already. With all the mushroom universities spring up everywhere.

My only regret was not taking my plans to japa serious enough, thinking things would continue being rosy as they were b4 Bubu.

Now my even my 4year junior colleagues are busy building houses in Naija with pounds they earned abroad, while I continue taking shiit from the same Nigerians I love so much.

Naija Government is also doing it's own by banning agaencies from actively recruiting. Them just wan kill everyone for this Naija sha. Na survival of the fittest, I know sey one day I go still japa.

No time is too late to japa. When Professors and 12+ years consultants are "japaing".

FunkyAlhaji2015:
Oga doctors on NYSC are not house officers. You google to understand housemanship is first.

Secondly Nigeria is one of few countries in the world that pays house officers. House officers are doctors in training, they do not perform any role in the hospital without supervision.

In the U.S. students pay to enter housemanship. If doctors are demanding we treat them like it is done in other climes then we must start from somewhere.

Almost all the things you typed there is wrong. Do more research and get the facts before you embarrass yourself with false assumptions.

Benwems:

You are the person misinforming people And you the person talking trash. Registrars on night shift are not meant to go to bed. No talking trash. It is because an average Nigerian is gullible that is the reason you doctors and people Brian wash them. Your talking of registrars becoming consultants, they learn from their consultants, as questions, read their books, consultants explain to them the diagnosis and prognosis with time the gather sufficient experience with the number of cases they have seen. Write required exams and if they pass become consultants. I will not argue with you. My father is a medical doctor from Germany. He’s a consultant and a professor. I’m not talking out of ignorance. I have also been to India and seen how their health system is run. Lying that resident doctors are the driving force of the health world wide is a big lie. People go to specialist for consultation not registrars. What happens is that there is usually 1-2 registrars with the consultant Learning from the specialist. It’s only in Nigeria , people consultant registrars because the consultants have refused to come to work. In the consulting room, it’s usually you and the specialist. You can even politely tell the consultant that you want some privacy that you want the registrar to leaving and the registrar will leave. I have done the twice. No big deal. It’s in the theatre that they are most needed to gain one on one experience and knowledge. Stop the lies and propaganda.

I have read your continued educated misinformation and i think its high time i dignify your bitterness against doctors wherever the root of that is with a response. Peradventure, you dropped out of medical school, or did not get the opportunity , but that aside.

Nairaland is a public forum, and your intelligence or the opposite is seen my many. Try to represent yourself to the best of your ability.

Mr BEMWEM... In health care we have

The Emergency department...
The Out patient department
Wards
and clinics.

Obviously, your ignorant experience is based on the latter two, wards and clinical consultation. If you were in a cardiac arrest in the EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT, OR YOU HAD TRAUMA you will not be healthy enough to wad your mouth to disrespect someone ( registrar) whos working hard to make sure your health doesnt deteriorate, whom you classify as " just a resident"

REAL HOSPITAL WORK IS HIGHEST AND STARTS IN THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT. That is where the real sick people go...my guy, all this anti propaganda yearns against doctors that you are spewing does not work in the real ER.

An average patient emergency requires at least 5 to 8 people to manage the patient. say you have 50 minimum, patients in one night, does it mean that the countries you mentioned, India, Germany and the rest, dole out 5 x 50 consultants for these new patients care, while the residents, ONLY TAKE NOTES DURING THE CHAOS THAT CONSTANTLY HAPPENS IN ER. Dude, no country has that surplus supply of consultants, who are often older in age and do not even have the physical stamina needed to really save a patient, like chest compressions, lifting , pulling of broken bones, etc.

I REITERATE. IN THE CHAOTIC EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT OR TRIAGE. RESIDENTS AND HOUSE OFFICERS , ARE THE FIRST CALL. NOT BECAUSE CONSULTANTS ARE LAZY, BUT BECAUSE, HISTORY TAKING AND ASSESSMENT IS HOW A DOCTOR LEARNS TO HAVE DIAGNOSTIC SKILLS. NOT BY TAKING NOTES. Stop saying your dad is a doctor medical intelligence is not hereditary, If you have not worked in a hospital or own a hospital , kindly keep mute.

Benwems:
I don’t know about India but house officers are not paid in USA. My sister is doing her intern in USA. And you are misinforming people. The issue is registrars (especially senior registrars) and consultants do not like working. At the end the push the work load to junior registrars and interns. But instead of tackling the issue at hand, you are blackmailing and lying on social media saying interns are suffering and yet no salary like it’s the Nigeria government that made them to be suffering.

Clearly you lack the ability to do effective comparison.

Glad you gave the example of your "sister". If that is true, can you further defend your ignorance by explaining to the public.
The intern that she is doing, the correct word is internship, but that aside. I have a few questions.
(1)The "intern" that she is doing, is that before she got her M.D certificate or after she got the M.D certificate.
(2) If you really do have a sister doing "intern", Did she have her medical education started in the U.S.A?
(3) Is these "intern" thingy a compulsory requirement for her, for licensing purposes.


While waiting for you to come and defend your ignorance, i'd lay down a few facts.

In the US , once you are awarded a medical degree, what is REQUIRED OF YOU IS TO WRITE USMLE STEP 2 CS AND APPLY FOR RESIDENCY VIA THE MATCHING SYSTEM. Observership or externships are duties done at the students discretion for THE PURPOSE OF PROFESSIONAL NETWORKING. not as a requirement. These M.D holders do not have a license, not even a temporary one during their first year of residency, YET THEY ARE PAID, based on the fact that they have written STEP ONE AND STEP 2 of the licensure exams, have a friggin M.D degree, and put in hours of work.


In the U.K after getting, M.B.B.S, as only medical degree holders they apply for Foundation Year. FY1 and start earning money, BASED THEIR DEGREE M.B.B.S and the hours of work they put in. IN FACT THEY ONLY GET LICENSED AFTER FY 1, AFTER EARNING ABOUT 24 K POUNDS, BASED ON WHAT...ONLY THIER M.B.B.S DEGREE

The European residency training system has a very poor structure, hence i cannot place it into the argument.

Indian doctors, graduate M.B.B.S write a licencure exam, get a TEMPORARY LICENCSE and start an equivalent of HOUSEJOB and are frigging paid.

South Africa has a two year internship and pays its interns!!!!


BUT the ignoramus like bemwem, comes here with all confidence and tries to be a subject matter based on a few travels he has made an family members.
Dude, Nigeria graduates and awards, and M.B.B.S degree, does an induction, swears a Hippocratic oath, and GIVES A PROVISIONAL LICENSE!!. Its after that, that you commence house-job. And work your ass out. why the frigging hell would a licenced doctor not earn money.


UK our, colonizer, whom we modelled our education after, pays its M.B.B.S doctors immediately after graduating. I see no reason why NIGERIA shouldn't

Benwems:

I really don’t know if they use the term house officer but she’s doing her intern or whatever they call there and she’s not been paid. I would try to get more accurate details from here. Plus in 2009, my first cousins was doing his residency in USA as an emergency doctor, he told us they don’t pay resident doctors in USA but we didn’t believe and I’m not very sure but I will also ask my sister.

This is it for me. HOW CAN YOU HAVE SUSTAINED IGNORANCE SINCE 2009, and even be having a conversation in this forum. My God!!! My, advice, you need unpaid internship on your knowledge about how the healthcare system works for 2 years because being informed is not hereditary or familial!!!

RESIDENT DOCTORS IN U.S ARE NOT BEING PAID, BEMWEM ET AL 2021.

dohyn:
I can see 2 or so individuals on this thread spouting rubbish confidently. That your father is a consultant or you've been to a clinic in Austria does not make you knowledgeable about health care in the Western world.

1) a lot of Nigerian doctors in the UK choose GP because it's the quickest route(3years)to become a specialist in the Uk. They have wasted years in Nigeria already, it would be foolhardy to expect someone in his 30s to go start 7 years surgical training in the UK.
That being said, we still have Nigerians doing training in other specialities, though it's roughly 25% of the total number of Nigerians in UK Training.

2) Registrars are the driving force of any tertiary hospital anywhere in the world. You can take that to the bank. And a medical registrar is THE main guy in UK hospitals.

3) again, I implore my colleagues in final year, start your japa plans with IELTS in final year. You won't regret it.

Nigeria and Nigerians will sort themselves out.

My guy, gbayi. You too make sense.

SIRTee15:


Healthcare has beyond all these thinking u expressing...

In advanced countries, nursing practioners see patients and run their clinic independently. Specialist nurses do routine surgical procedures like endoscopy. First contact physiotherapist now handle most non surgical orthopaedic cases.
Gone are days of consultants or even doctors doing everything. Healthcare is now multidisciplinary oriented.

Registrar doctors practically run the hospital. A medical registrar holds the night bleep in hospitals. He's the doctor running the show at night- emergencies, cardiac arrest, acute cases...name it. U have to be good and know your stuff to carry that bleep. Ive met a lot of nigerian medical registrars here in uk. So I dont know where u get that info that nigerian doctors in uk are not good.

Besides, GP is a specialty on its own, and probably the most lucrative. U can easily pull over 150 thousands pounds in a yr if u hardworking. Its also the only specialty in uk where u can have your own practice. Maybe thats why nigerian doctors are rushing into the specialty.

Your narrative is not only spurious but reeks of jealousy. I really don't understand what u have against doctors, but its unnecessary.
In the 21st century, there are other professions more rewarding than doctors. Why not discover yours, rather wasting futile effort trying to bring down another noble profession.

Bro you too on point. The guy is spewing bile of jealousy. Thats not even what irks me. It's how he CONFIDENTLY DISPLAYS HIS IGNORANCE, EVEN USING ABSURD FAMILY CASES TO BACK UP HIS POINT that stuns me. How will a resident doctor not be paid in U.S. its either dude is not even in medical practice, or you are just classicaly uninformed.

omonnakoda:
How is your bitterness relevant here?
Only you your whole family is WHO.

Your father is professor you sister is intern your grandfather is brainsurgeon. Did they become doctors to escape poverty?

You sound really embittered

Avoid bitterleaf soup

gbayiiiii. On point.

CorperKola:

dey deceive yourself there, nurse and doctor plenty well wey dey find job.
no be only una go school

Another ignoramus. A country with over 200 million people, he says that doctor plenty well well wey dey find work. This sort of reason explains the classical reason why this country is in shambles

Benwems:


Kindly respect yourself and guide your tongue. Don’t insult my family. You can stay your mind without been rude. I have heard many older medical doctors say the younger ones are going into medicine because of salary and it’s the obvious fact.

You’re the bitter person here because of background. I can’t be arguing with you.

the bleeping reason, why they go into it, doesn't matter!!!

DO they have the skill to work? YES
DO you have the money to pay for that skill.....If yes PAY.....SIMPLE.

90 PERCENT OF PROFESSION ARE EITHER job satisfaction or monetary reward. If you get job satisfaction. Fine, but when harsh economic realities hit you, you favor having money.

SIRTee15:

A doctor with MBBS can perform any surgical procedure anywhere in the country, so long as he's competent in it.
Most doctors in private hospitals don't even have ordinary masters to their name. Yet they perform all forms of surgeries in their theatre.
Residency training is not a must n u don't need to be a consultant to operate...As far as naija is concerned.
Have u heard of the word chronic medical officer?

I know all this.
If your wife requires CS, will you allow a house officer to cut her ?

dokgen:


This is it for me. HOW CAN YOU HAVE SUSTAINED IGNORANCE SINCE 2009, and even be having a conversation in this forum. My God!!! My, advice, you need unpaid internship on your knowledge about how the healthcare system works for 2 years because being informed is not hereditary or familial!!!

RESIDENT DOCTORS IN U.S ARE NOT BEING PAID, BEMWEM ET AL 2021.

I really commend your effort for going through the pain of replying that ignorant foo.l, Bemwem. The ijiat wanted to study Medicine but, apprently, he was just too dumb to come anywhere near the cut off mark.

Spidermon:


I know all this.
If your wife requires CS, will you allow a house officer to cut her ?

Go to general hospitals located outside of state capitals. U will be surprised what house officers do.

I know how things work, I'll probably want an O&G consultant to attend to my wife. But most people don't, they just want a competent doctor.

You people really have time to be arguing with people who are only here to cause chaos.

All I am gladly waiting fot is a time when the FG will have to be paying through the nose to beg expertriate doctors to come cover health institutions. Since they don't want us, we'll leave the hospitals for them to run themselves.

Vaughanlanrewaj:


That you are comparing an Engineer who can build one building or bridge at once to serve millions of people for years alone show that you are incapable of understanding it so don't bother.
Whoever is telling you that there are enough senior doctors for trainees is lying to you. Maybe if they recall those mostly on the bazaar sabbatical poltical and administrative appointment, the situation may improve for the citizens and their trainees but as at now, everything is bollocks to you.

It is Nigerians that will fight to have our health care restored to how it was before, it may take a while but it will happen someday seeing how our public healthcare system has been down since then.
We will be alright las las. God bless Nigeria. Good night.

This is even worse.

dochenaj:
Almost all the things you typed there is wrong. Do more research and get the facts before you embarrass yourself with false assumptions.

Your reply is funny to me. Let tell you something, the head of service, the minister of health and the minister of labour all medical doctors, they came together to this agreement. They know this is how things are been done in advanced healthcare systems we wish to copy.

Zeeknow3245:

Wrong madam. Not any Doctor Madam. A Cardiologist doesn't perform surgery, A Neurologist doesn't perform surgery but some procedures so stop saying wrong things. You are going for an Hernia operation and you're expecting a General Practicioner to do surgery for you? A paediatrician doesn't perform Surgery but a Paediatric Surgeon. A Pathologist doesn't perform Surgery. A General Practicioner doesn't have any right whatsoever to tear you up but do minor surgeries but this is Nigeria;

In Nigeria, General Practitioners ( Family Medicine Specialists) are trained to do some Surgeries, including Herniorrhaphies.

dochenaj:
No time is too late to japa. When Professors and 12+ years consultants are "japaing".

Omoor meen...issorai...

Zeeknow3245:

Wrong madam. Not any Doctor Madam. A Cardiologist doesn't perform surgery, A Neurologist doesn't perform surgery but some procedures so stop saying wrong things. You are going for an Hernia operation and you're expecting a General Practicioner to do surgery for you? A paediatrician doesn't perform Surgery but a Paediatric Surgeon. A Pathologist doesn't perform Surgery. A General Practicioner doesn't have any right whatsoever to tear you up but do minor surgeries but this is Nigeria;

Any doctor can do basic surgeries like CS,appendicectomy,etc whether they're specialists in that area or not.How do you think doctors who have private clinics cope?

Hybkay:
hmm...this is not entirely true

Yeah.I just confirmed that house officers are not permitted to do surgeries on their own.

Zeeknow3245:

Wrong madam. Not any Doctor Madam. A Cardiologist doesn't perform surgery, A Neurologist doesn't perform surgery but some procedures so stop saying wrong things. You are going for an Hernia operation and you're expecting a General Practicioner to do surgery for you? A paediatrician doesn't perform Surgery but a Paediatric Surgeon. A Pathologist doesn't perform Surgery. A General Practicioner doesn't have any right whatsoever to tear you up but do minor surgeries but this is Nigeria;

The only thing is that if you do any surgery and it goes wrong, you'll be held responsible for refusing to refer the patient to the specialists.

FunkyAlhaji2015:


Your reply is funny to me. Let tell you something, the head of service, the minister of health and the minister of labour all medical doctors, they came together to this agreement. They know this is how things are been done in advanced healthcare systems we wish to copy.

buhari will be proud of this one...he sure seems to be among those who were,will be shouting sai BABA wen the country is in ruins all this yrs

Zoe99:
Any doctor can do basic surgeries like CS,appendicectomy,etc whether they're specialists in that area or not.How do you think doctors who have private clinics cope?

Did you see "minor surgeries" in my write up? the word "minor". Nigeria General Practicioners even do CS now. Is it Legal? My argument was her saying "Any Doctor with MBBS degree can perform surgery"

HBB1:



In Nigeria, General Practitioners ( Family Medicine Specialists) are trained to do some Surgeries, including Herniorrhaphies.

Thank you said "In Nigeria" settled

Skyfly007:
You won't understand until you are at the mercy of one of these unpaid doctors at the hospital (GOD frobid though)

you make it sound as if the doctors are out there to harm you

nwanna89:
this is one of the reasons this action was taken....

There were reports of interns finishing their one year internship with one organization and instead of collecting their permanent licenses, they hold onto their temporary licenses and apply to another organization as fresh intakes. They get appointment letters, obviously after greasing some official's palms and they get paid again for another year.

So, there were cases of people staying as interns for many years and getting paid without the govt's knowledge.

Why don't they fish out the erring interns for disciplinary action?

Zoe99:
Any doctor can do basic surgeries like CS,appendicectomy,etc whether they're specialists in that area or not.How do you think doctors who have private clinics cope?

still wrong

Hybkay:
still wrong

Are you a doctor?