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|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 4:06pm On May 06|
Even TAO11's obsession is already a proof of Benin influence over the Yorubas.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 4:34pm On May 06|
You are talking about the Igodomigodo before the breakup of the union and establishment of the Oba title.. however the Ogisos are not myth or fairytales. they actually ruled the Igodomigodo. The title was rotational among the various clans and held less power..
Like you mentioned, before Eweka there were rulers, what do you think those rulers were called?
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by samuk: 5:23pm On May 06|
You too have no date for the Oduduwa you are claiming. Why are you complaining that the Oba of Benin wants to celebrate Oduduwa he believes to be a Benin prince. The Oba of Benin is not stopping any other Yoruba oba from doing similar celebrations if they believe he was their progenitor.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by fregeneh(m): 6:19pm On May 06|
You that have date for your so called missing ekaladiran why don't you give us his date of birth and the date he died
and possibly his father/mothers name too to proof to us he is not fabricated.
Yoruba don't need you to tell us to celebrate oduduwa that we've been admiring and cerebrating for centuries before you benin ever heard someone with that name existed,you woke up way too too late.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 7:39am On May 07|
Those rulers could be family names thats why we have different greetings in benin showing your family names,
The ogiso talk was a mythical talk you have been on Nairaland for long you should have passed this stage of reasoning bro
Benin never believed in the existence of sky to even begin with all ancient text has proved this to be true
Benins belived the earth was their afterlife and that if a man dies, his souls remains on earth both the soul of the oba, who stays around to protect his family from harm after death
They felt the cloud was empty that it was created by their idols on earth to help humanity, idols like eziza= the god of the wind,
Avanuku= the god of thunderstorm and many others
The belive of a sky kings later on was influenced of europeans and their Christianity
Even at that, it was in mere speech the edos made such refrence on sky kings
And it didn't show in their daily traditional life
History is research ans reasoning, even if history is well documented actions of people also needs to be interpreted...
My stance still remain benin ans ife never had encounter prior to 1914
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 7:46am On May 07|
Who told you the title was rotational... Nawa foe you you just carry form anything for your head they give me to believe
On the illustration i gave on how benin were united under eweka,
I didn't just form it on my head like you just formed yours
It took me knowledge of various bini historical document and event in benin documented by europeans for me to give such analysis
Who told you they were rotational can you give me any past even in benin history that made you have this rotational thinking of political system of ogiso
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 7:51am On May 07|
Dont blame me bro i tried my best to force him to read ans study benin history so he can see the politics behind it himself ,
But nope he is too lazy to do it or feels reluctant
My lashing towards him made him call you a saint
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 7:54am On May 07|
There is all things wrong with it, if he doesn't say his a myth so the people would what he is celebrating or they are celebrating
Atleast we kniw father Christmas are mythical figures but we celebrate them
But the edo people are believing Oduduwa was real and are celebrating it for such reasons which shouldn't be.....
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 8:37am On May 07|
Oga any of the oba can introduced the adah and eben was it written in the adah thst that ogiso invented it
Am telling you nothing like ogiso existed bro
Yes i never deniel the mention of the wods ogiso used by benin in ancient context, i simply showed why it is a myth made up by bins
The title of benin rulers have always been oba
How did i know, i read ancient context, on benin naratives talking about ogiso
One the ancient tex goes like this
*Ogiso ruled in the time of no moon or sun 1600AD
*Ogiso were displace by a whiteman who came through the waters, and slept with the ogiso daughters and gave birth to eweka
With all knowledge from bini custom and history you would see ogiso never existed, it was mythical talks, just like ogene n uhe..
, you said your grandfather talked about names of various ogiso, please what year i really want to know, any names of ogiso after 1914, is void, they were made up by the palace and learnt by the chief recently after 1914
Throughout the mention of ogiso pre 1914
There was never a mentioned of particular name of ogiso who ruled, they only mentioned ogiso as a ruler, and not a particular ogiso
It easy after pre 1914 to make up history to patch history
Was your father a chief or a commoner?
Ogimien history happened long after eweka history, ogiemien history had no associate with any oromiyan or Oduduwa that didnt exist,
Ekaladerhan and ogiemien history
Was simply when prince Ekaladerhan was accused of sleeping with one of his fathers wife, his father was an oba not ogiso because ogiso never ruled, this made the then oba father angry, and asked them to kill Ekaladerhan with no appellation or judgement, Ekaladerhan fled to ughton that was yet unestablished then as a settlement and hid
In the forest of ughton, and later after the oba had died the truth came out Ekaladerhan was wrongfully accused and some chief went in search of him they found him at ughoton and was asked to come to take his throne, that
Ogiemien (lord of the sea) probably a strong olokun worshiper which tells from his name
Had already sat on the throne and Ekaladerhan fought him and they came to an agreement after the war, because of much causualtity...
Note: the ogimien would say anything to get attention saying the oba is a yoruba man makes him more eligible to the throne...
Now oba erediawa in blessed memory twisted the original story of Ekaladerhan taken around 1906 and added oromiyan and eweka to it....to have a flavour of Oduduwa and attached it to yoruba
Youre making my work hard Pick a book and read
See my screenshot below from a Benin renowned historian
I will keep on telling the correct history on Nairaland till the truth is out, i know some palace people are on Nairaland here
Screenshot one shows how egharevba describe the ogisos
Picture 2 shows were egharevba got his information from
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by Fezz: 8:42am On May 07|
You are unbelieviable. If you are so vast in Benin history, mention the Oba that invented the Adah and Eben. Or do you think they fell from the sky. Learn history from your elders and stop assuming. You are assuming alot and it is not good for your reputation in here.
Secondly, what was the name of Ekalaredan's father since you say his father is an oba ?
In other threads you keep on saying egharevba distorted Benin history for personal gains, but when it concerns the Ogisos you never stop quoting egharevba's work. Isn't this funny
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 9:05am On May 07|
Lol, you couldn't attack me properly
Ooh sometimes l like debating tao11 tho she is a lier but she doesn't ask foolish questions abd she always bring something new to the table untill recently
Lol, again were you there when the ogiso invented the adah and eben, is it the benin elders that couldn't count how many obas have ruled them and the age they ruled that
You want me to take history from
Do you know that esekhure went to copy the nanes of the kinglist from egharevba when they were initially compiling the list
Go and read benin kinglist chronology
Search and read dont remain ignorant free yourself
So because some benin chiefs said so you believed its true
Did you even see my egharevba screenshot were he clearly stated the ogiso ruled when there was ni sun or moon
My screenshot now shows esekure consulting egharevba when he was compiling his kinglist if benin past rulers for the British, he had to go and spy from egharevba to compile his, someone egharevba ought to be consulting was now consulting egharevba
Oga youre ignorant and proud and that alone disgust me about you
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 9:09am On May 07|
Now that particular quote i refrecend egharevba on
Were egharevba said ogiso ruled when there was no moon or sun
That particular quote was not original from egharevba that quote was gitten from Benin in 16Ad in the oba palace by a ethnography who visited the palace
Egharevba just referenced it, and i was unable ti find the original quote that's why i used that of egharevba
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by Fezz: 10:27am On May 07|
Find the original quote and post it here. Enough of fabrications. Egharevba's work is full of controversies, he was a brilliant historian but he let personal greed get the best of him.
Kindly post the original quote here, we will work with that.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by Fezz: 10:37am On May 07|
Kindly give the name of the publisher of this article you posted with detailed reference.
From your statement starting from your second paragraph I'm 100% sure you are not a Benin man. You are probably from Ph or probably akwa Ibom. You are just intrigued about Benin history and that's why you want to know more.
All Benin scholars on this blog have tried to advise you on the right path to follow but you have turned a blind eye. Samuk adviced you just 2 days ago as well. I wash my hands off you. Cheers!
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 10:59am On May 07|
Bro am trying to educate you you should thank me for it
You really didnt get the message samuk was passing did you misinterpreted it
When youre done researching benin history go and research yoruba history thoroughly
Only then you will be wise
Youre not attacking me with evidence because you dont have any upstair on a norms i wouldn't be debating you, but what do i know i might be educating someone who is following up silently
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by samuk: 11:02am On May 07|
As the Oduduwa narrative gains ground, Benin whose history is linked with it most take ownership of the narrative for future generations. You can't leave it in the hands of the Yorubas. Oduduwa political history was designed to steal Benin history.
We were told christianity was started in Israel by a jew called jesus christ. The Romans who saw the future 2000 years ago decided to use their power and influence to take ownership of christianity, that is why the Pope, a European has always been the holiest Christian and the vertical the head of christianity. Even the Jews that should ordinarily own christianity are vilified as the ones that killed Jesus.
There is politic is everything, religion, history etc. Those that are clever enough to take early ownership of such political processes are those that will reap the future benefit. Imagine how much Rome/vertical earns today from tourism and from Catholic churches across the world, the catholic church remains the most powerful, richest and most influential Christian denomination in the world because their early leaders were visionary that saw the future and took ownership of a Jewish made religion and prophet.
The political history of Oduduwa is a competition between the Oba of Benin and Ooni of Ife, the price is millions of devoted followers who are currently being social engineered to believe the narrative, fairytale or not.
This is similar to how major religious were formed.
The Benins should know their history and at the same time not give grounds to any group/tribes to create a political history out of Benin authentic history and then take ownership of it to the detriment of our future generations.
I am sure if you get the politics of it the way I do, you will not be so vexed. See it as a win win, it doesn't stop you from researching into the authentic history of Benin. The Benin have an unparalleled advantage over anyone else in Nigeria when it comes to history, we have to be tactical about it otherwise others will steal it through the back door. We have to be watchful.
Have you not noticed how the wind have been taken away from TAO11 and her Yoruba compatriot sails/arguments.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 11:26am On May 07|
I get your point my fear is distortion on our dear historical past
You know what it took us last year to find the truth, when we were on our phones 24hrs debating this particular topic we went from arguing from the myth to seeing the actual truth and accepting it
And i took it to myself to enlighten people am not going to do it forever
I just want the edos to know ghe truth and then they can decided to choose to accept the political play,
Fooling the people blindly is something i wont support
The palace should come clean about this fact
Am attacking the fezz guy, because he attacked me first with dirty statement
Atlesst i have a reserved happiness our oba is not of any yoruba blood and if he was i wpuld also have no choice to happy and defend the truth thats who i am
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by samuk: 11:27am On May 07|
We shouldn't loose our authentic history and at same time should be able to play politics.
When the Europeans first visited Nigeria in the 1400s, they met the Oba of Benin as the most powerful ruler, up till and beyond 1826.
When the British finally arrived the hinterland of Yoruba in 1826 they met the Alaafin as the leader of the Yoruba people. The Alaafin told the British that he still relied on the Oba of Benin for military assistance.
Between 1826 to 1960 the Ooni was politically created, Oduduwa was used to link the Oba of Benin and Yoruba obas together with the Ooni being elevated above the Alaafin and the Oba of Benin in the western region by those that thought they were clever.
The Oba of Benin has been fighting back since then.
What is going on with the Oduduwa narrative is war of information/misinformation that we most not allow the Yoruba to win.
Discuss authentic history whilst at the same time keep your eyes on the politics.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 11:34am On May 07|
Bro i don't make up stories like the Yorubas ooo..
Just like you, i read a lot and have come across many writings about Edo history, i never saved any of them because i wasn't on nairaland then..
One writing described Igodomigodo as a union of clans whose rulers were called Ogisos. The title was rotational amongst the various clans and the last Ogiso (Owodo) wanted his son Ekaladeran to be the next ogiso as against the norm.. It says Ekaladeran was a handsome prince and was much loved by the people (especially those of his clan Efa).
Owodo's wife was against Ekaladeran becoming the next Ogiso and this made her lie against him resulting in his banishment by his father.
I read this narrative long ago though i didn't think much of it then and couldn't verify it was a true account but it does make sense and logical..
I also read in an article that described the coming of Eweka that says; "when eweka came to benin he moved from village to village, where the people were weak he fought them and captured them, if they were strong he talk gently to them and won them over."
So my bro, we have all come across many writings about Benin history, we have to filter the rubbish (like the Yoruba stories) and research on the logical and sensible ones..
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 11:39am On May 07|
Yea i know the politcs behind it, i personally unraveled it, here on Nairaland
But the truth must be let out first before anything
If we keep silent and play along the politcs we will join the elite fooling everyone and endup distorting our history beyound itself....
There be more harm if we keep silent
I just want to go with the enlightenment before anything else, let the people decide if they want to play d politcs after hearing the truth
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 11:47am On May 07|
Be careful how you explain your opinion of Edo history so as not to get confused.
If you say Ekaladeran's father was an Oba and Eweka was the first Oba, then you mean Eweka predates Ekaladeran?
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by samuk: 11:51am On May 07|
I get your point, both can be done at the same time by finding clever ways of putting things in their proper historical and political perspectives. When the need arises, we should be able to separate history from politics and at the same time also play politics if we are call upon.
The way I deal with my fellow Benin is to simply point to them that Oduduwa, Ooni, ife and Oranmiyan were not mentioned in Benin written history between 1400s to late 1800s, a period of 400 years, this is usually enough to get them thinking.
Don't forget we all once believed the Oduduwa narrative to be true until it was pointed out that it was a recent narrative which made alot of us to research more into our history. A gentle approach is usually enough otherwise you will lose your audience, and if you do, your message is lost.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by Fezz: 12:07pm On May 07|
Loud it.. let it sink into their ears. It's just simple logic. Nicely said Sam.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 12:08pm On May 07|
You are right bro.. the Oduduwa story was something i always wondered about because it never adds up.. when it was pointed out as a recent narrative and after much reading it still doesn't add up and worse still it isn't even logical..
Even when the chief at Ughoton told the Portuguese about the Ogane from the East, he would have easily added that the Ogane and the Oba were descendants of same ancestor or Oduduwa but that wasn't said which makes the Oduduwa story more unbelievable..
Also when the Alaffin told the Europeans about his "friend" the Oba of Benin he could have proudly said they were Oduduwa's descendants but he didn't say that.
Bottomline is that, all the writings about Edo and Yoruba history from pre 1900s already proves Oduduwa is a myth. If he wasn't mentioned in any of the hundreds of ancient writings we have then he didn't exist.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 12:19pm On May 07|
I know that particular quote TAO11 once referenced it and i have it on one of my thread
That qoute was made in early 1900 probably 1908, when the europeans enquired about the history of ughton
And they talked about prince Ekaladerhan established ughton how he was banished and he came back fighting fod the throne
That bolded quote was later distorted fdom Ekaladerhan and iweka was used to replace Ekaladerhan in the statement
Like the way egharevba distorted this quote in my screenshot read my scfeenshot carefully
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 12:37pm On May 07|
If you check my very first comment on this thread i made a comment that the oba is playing politcs here with Oduduwa history
Not untill the fezz guy attacked me that he has been watching me closely that i have been distorting benin history because am i afraid to debate the yorunas so i took a different approach saying oduduwa didn't exist
I don beg am make he vist my profile make e enlightening himself but no veil, if he was a yoruba guy i for don curse sense enter e brain
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 12:48pm On May 07|
Your screenshot says it was probably a spelling error by Egharevba. The event described there happened 300yrs after Ewuare, i don't think he would intentionally distort something so glaring.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by davidnazee: 12:53pm On May 07|
Well your approach (passionate and hot tempered) probably is not the best way.. like samuk said, a gentle approach is better..
Even if we say Oduduwa is a myth due to our research don't forget our Oba says he existed and was an Edo prince before he became Oduduwa.. so a lot of Edos will believe that too..
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 1:24pm On May 07|
Eweka predates Ekaladeran yes he does
Ekaladerhan history only came out in the 1900, when a European on the origin of ughton
It was never an important history to the benins
Ekaladerhan history from what i have researched has nothing to do with eweka1
The mixup was done by oba erediawa who tried to connect indepedent Ekaladerhan history to the first oba of benin eweka
When they initially narrated Ekaladerhan history they never associated it with any oba they only said he was a prince, it could be a son of an enogie, but it wasnt specified which king he was
Ekaladerhan history could not even be related to eweka or the oba of benin kingship probably he was a duke prince
This are the possibilities
Around the 16century benin said they migrated from the east
Eweka history when it was initially told to roupell in 1897 teo months before benin fell to the British never had anything to do with Ekaladerhan, oromiyan Oduduwa
This were new inventions after amalgamation
Am tired of typing bro, if u need us to talk drop your number we go use voice note
Or you go and be doing private research yourself abd be looking for ancient benin quote given by binis to europeans talking about their entity and kingship
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by samuk: 1:30pm On May 07|
The reality on ground are:
1. Oduduwa story is here to stay
2. The Yoruba will continue to propagate it and they have the numerical strength to distort it.
3. The Oba of Benin is an authority that will be believed
4. There is a collusion of history and politics.
It will be fatal to simply argue history and leave the politics.
When we debate history, what is our target audience compared to Yoruba audience who are more interested in the fairytale of Oduduwa. Our strategy should change.
Those clever by half free slaves Yoruba historians that created Oduduwa story made a fatal error which was first exploited by the Sultan of Sokoto to Islamised more than half of the Yoruba population. This same flaw/error was what Oba Erediawa capitalized on in the 1970s. The Yoruba still haven't fully realised it yet.
When the Oduduwa narrative was created by former Yoruba freed slaves, their inferiority complex got the better of them and decided to make the claim that he was from Egypt because they thought it was more better if he was a foreigner and Ife was not good enough to be his original birth place.
In late 1890s, Sultan Bello of Sokoto capitalized on this error and claimed Oduduwa was from Saudi Arabia, this allowed his Fulani caliphate to first Islamize Ilorin and more than the rest of Yoruba land.
By linking the Oba of Benin to Oduduwa, the Oba of Benin also capitalise on the foreign origin by linking him to Ekaladerhan because neither Egypt nor Saudi Arabia have any record of Oduduwa.
The two popular accounts of Oduduwa origin is Benin and Saudi Arabia but Yoruba eyewitness written history only began in 1826 and have to rely on Benin written history which is much older to date Oduduwa to the 1100s, 700 years before Yoruba written history began.
If the Benin play the political history of Oduduwa right, they will always be on top of the narrative.
If I were to advise the Benin Palace, I will advise that they should even enlarge the annual Oduduwa celebrations by inviting selected Yoruba obas to participate.
We should know our history and be able to play politics at the same time. This is why less than 5 million Fulanis are dominating the entire Nigeria with population of over 200 million.
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 1:57pm On May 07|
Definitely history is research even if every detail of a particular event was writing down you need to still explain why some people those historical decisions they took
So history is research itself
I would have been gentle to the guy but he insulted me openly.. And rubbished my integrity
|Re: Oba Of Benin Announces Date For Outdoor Ceremony Of Odudua Rites by gregyboy(m): 2:00pm On May 07|
Thw scholar was defending it but if you go through the entire article ypu will see how desperate egharevba was and i believed he did it, to initially distort it
What spelling error could it be that was a lame excuse
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