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|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 11:09pm On May 21|
macof:I am not certain too, and some certainty on that point is very key to that proposed etymology.
Well, if we look at other historical cum spiritual figures like Ọbàlúayé and Ọbàlùfọ̀n we have "Ọbà" just as in ỌbàtáláI’d beg to respectfully differ oo. The O-B-A in “Obaluaye” is actually the same “Ọba” for “King”. Yes it is actually “Ọbalúayé”.
The same applies to the O-B-A in “Obalufon”. The O-B-A here is also the same as “Ọba“ for “King”. Yes it is actually “Ọbalùfọ̀n”.
However, “Obatala” is actually “Ọbàtálá” — but the “Ọbà“ comes originally from the “Ọba” for “King” as I had proposed.
It's really interesting to think that Òrìṣàlà might have been given the name of the supreme being.. Or perhaps worshipped as one part of the supreme being as it appears there might have been a sort of duality with the supreme being in ancient times.Actually, my understanding (backed by the cited scholarly conclusion which is based, as is to be expected, on received Yoruba traditions) is not that the word “Òrìṣà” later came to be applied only to “Òrìṣànlà” (aka “Obatala”).
Instead, the tradition is that the “... Supreme Being was first given the name Orisa — roughly meaning “the source from which all things emanated.” ..., that name generally came to be used for the highest heavenly beings who were said to have being with the Supreme Being at the time when the Supreme Being created all things, and whom the Supreme Being later sent to the lower spiritual sphere where they became the most senior gods.”
The name (Òrìṣà) is said to have later been applied to the deities (plural). And Obatala being deified as the arch/great orisa (among the deities) came to be called “Òrìṣà-Ńlá” — the Great/Arch Òrìṣà.
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|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by macof(m): 11:42pm On May 21|
TAO11:It's an interesting angle that I will keep looking into, I didn't come across it even because of ọbàtálá but just generally. And since we started talking about ọbàtálá it was a good chance to post the idea here
What do you say about "baba" and "bàbá" rendered for Father
And "bà" (exert/perch) as opposed to "ba" (hide)
And "júbà" (homage)
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|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 12:20am On May 22|
What do you say about "baba" and "bàbá" rendered for FatherI get your point here.
Both means father obviously, but the first appears clearly to have been the original Yoruba form vis-a-vis its etymology — from “ba,” viz. to “couch,” to “lord,” etc.
In the light of the foregoing, “bàbá” appears then to have been a form which evolved later from “baba” or/ and from other similarly-sounding words for “father” in other near/distant cultures.
My following note is not so relevant to the point here:
I would say ìbà, means “homage,” and júbà (or ṣèbà) means to “pay homage”.
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|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 8:37am On May 22|
Bá = to meet,to overtake,to locate at a place
Bã=to lie in wait,to lurk,to couch,hide,etc
Bà=to hit the mark,to germinate
Bà=strain through seive,ask for beforehand
ìbà=to rank a man,powerful man
ùbá=lord ,king father
ábá=lord, king , father
Bãbã=master,highly placed man,priest, grandfather
Bàbà=guinea corn, copper
Bābá=a great thing
Bàbà=betoken the hovering of a bird
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 9:33am On May 22|
The O is a personal pronoun; used for he,she, it,him,her aux.verb, adverb(of assent).And used also as prefix.
The Ọ is a pronoun for thee,thou(you)in Yoruba language.So also as contraction of Iwọ Is used originally among age grade which shows no form of respect. Instead ìrẹ is more apt.
Furthermore Ọ is also used as pronoun for his her,it, she, he. And used as verb and prefix as well among Yorubas for owner.
Obalufon= king vast in speech; utterance.
The ignorants will claim god of peace of the kingdom is Ọbälùfọ̀n
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Nas23Nas: 10:56am On May 22|
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 1:30pm On May 22|
Creation myth of the Yorubas Loading
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 5:42pm On May 22|
Ba =/= king
Ba could mean reign, supersede, oversee, cover etc but never king stop this please
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 5:43pm On May 22|
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 6:17pm On May 22|
Thank you @rhektor for calling out a scam artist.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 9:11pm On May 22|
rhektor:Are you for real ? Ba'ile/ Bälè means what ?
Well, knowledge is eternal.The ancient Yoruba actually developed their language in accordance to what superiority stands for. So, if you dont understand it perhaps,you should note that, my understanding of Yoruba language isnt of Oyo or Lagos form of Yoruba language but dialects of Eastern or Central Yoruba language.
Having affirm this, ba is also king ; reign over. Kindly check oriki of kings whose panegyric states, 'Ka re o ba mi',(literally,'well done my king')for more understanding.
Contrary to your view, I have not seen anywhere supersede is used by Yorubas either in ancient times,which can be found in Yoruba dictionary or modern day Yorubas. Even as a slang , I havent come across such except you have information to that effect. And I will kindly ask you to inform me.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 9:42pm On May 22|
rhektor:Are you sure you know what you are up against? Perhaps you need pull down your statement else I will post dictionary that nullified your statement which you ignorant termed my post as , 'fake'.
Seriously, I am highly disappointed in you for this postulation of yours because I have ne'er imagined that you amongst others here will not know these words exist in Yoruba lexicon. Anyway, I hope you know I am not competing with you or anyone here but if you so choose ,then ,that is self inflicted beef , because you're flawful over your view. Below is the screenshot of one among Yoruba dictionary that proofs me correct. No need for beef because you're 100% wrong.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by 0balufonlll: 10:38pm On May 22|
However, I am going to say that Obatala was one of the several titles or appellations for this important deified culture hero. The title Obatala stemmed from the particularism of this figure for white clothes and efun (white chalks).
Each of the Irun imole (400 deities) have specific colour(s) they identified with in the form of fabric, and spatial aesthetics. These deities either identified with this colour alone (such as Oduduwa - black; Ogun - red; Orunmila - green and brown with some white; Esu Ola Ilu - red & black etc.) or belonged to a group of deities associated with the colour.
Obatala is the leading deity among the 400 deities. This may be argued in the form of political power, age and other mythical imaginations within Yoruba folklore. In addition to being the leading personage among the 400 deities, Obatala is also the King of all deities associated with colour white and I think this is where the title 'Oba ti ala', king of white cloths or king of all things white, emanated from. Some of the 'white' wearing deities include but are not limited to Olufon (Obatala's first son), Oluorogbo, Orisa Ikire, Obarese, & Ogiyan. Obatala is their leader, their king.
The Obatala personage had several titles descriptive of his actions or choices. These include Etirigbo, Oseremagbo, Oba Ugbo, & Olufe to mention a few. They all reflected the shifts in or the trajectory/flow of his life and times.
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|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by 0balufonlll: 11:07pm On May 22|
I missed two points while responding, so here:
The Oba in 'Ọbàtálá' is pronounced as is due to ellision. When all the words are pronounced separately then 'Ọbà' becomes Oba in Oba ti ala. It is similar to how Oba Iloran is pronounced Ọbàloran, Oba Ejio is pronounced Ọbàjio, Oba Idio is Ọbàdio and so on. I hope that makes sense.
Finally, Orisa was Obatala's actual
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by YungMillionaire: 11:19pm On May 22|
Count me in. Ogun is my favorite.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by YungMillionaire: 11:21pm On May 22|
You are so smart. Can you also summarize Christian and Islamic mythology? Thanks in advance.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 11:14am On May 23|
Creation myth in Ifaodu of Yoruba:
Obatala and Ogun remained attested to by the fact that most of the ese Odu about creation are found in Odu’s containing either Ogbe or Ogunda or a combination of both (Ogbe is the Odu that incarnates Obatala, and Ogunda incarnates Ogun).
So,in this account Obatala completed the task of creating:
Orisanla’ who is also known as (Obatala’) was the arch-divinity who was chosen by Eledumare, the supreme deity to create a solid land out of the primordial abyss that constituted the earth and of populating the land with human beings. He descended from Orun (the invisible realm, the realm of the ancestors) into Aiye (the visible realm) on a chain, carrying a snail shell full of earth, palm kernels and a five-toed chicken.
He was to empty the content of the snail shell on the water after placing some pieces of iron on it, and then to place the chicken on the earth to spread it over the primordial water by doing what chickens do, which is to scratch at the ground. According to this version of the myth, Obatala completed this task to the satisfaction of Olodumare. He was then given the task of making the physical body of human beings after which Olodumare would give them the breath of life (emi). He also completed this task and this is why he has the title of "Obarisa" the "King of Orisas". Ìbà Obàtálà, Òrìsà Òséré Igbó. Oni kùtúkùtú awo òwúrò, Ikù iké, Oba pàtà - pàtà tí won gb'odé ìranjè.
I respect the Spirit of the King of White Cloth who is praised at the Sacred Grove. Owner of the Ancient Mystery of the White Cloth,the Spirit Who is praised on the sacred day of the Forest, Guardian of those with physical disabilities. King of all future generations.
This account showered Praise on Oduduwa as the one who completed creation:
The other variant of the cosmogenic myth does not credit Obatala with the completion of the task. While it concedes that Obatala was given the task, it avers that Obatala got drunk on palm wine even before he got to the earth and he fell asleep. Eledumare got worried when he did not return on time, so he sent Oduduwa, Obatala’s younger brother, to find out what was going on. When Oduduwa found Obatala drunk, he simply took over the task and completed it. He created land. The spot on which he landed from Orun and which he redeemed from water to become land is called Ile-Ife, considered the sacred and spiritual home of the Yoruba.
In the Odu Okanran Ogunda there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. In this version, it is Orunmila (the Prophet, Orisa that represents Olodumare’s wisdom) who carries the snail shell full of the substance which creates land upon the primordial waters. The Snail Shell was taken from the seat of Olodumare and given to Orunmila with the authority to create the earth. In the process of creation, Orunmila dipped his hands into the snail shell and took out measures of earth-dust (Oro, primordial matter) with which land was created on the primordial waters.
Odu Osa Ogunda
Was the priest on earth
Was the priest in heaven
Was the priest of Mid-Air
It was divined for Aiye and Orun*
When they both exited
With no inhabitants
In the two empty snail shells,
There were neither birds nor spirits
Living in them
Odumare then created himself
Being the Primal cause
Which is the reason we call Odumare
The only wise one in aiye
He is the only cause in creation,
The only wise one in Orun,
Who created humans.
When He had no companion,
He applied wisdom to the situation
To avert any disaster.
The only one in Orun
Is the name of Odumare
The only wise one,
We give you thanks,
The only knowing mind,
You created man.
Listening to one side of an argument,
You judge, and all are pleased.
In another verse from Osa Ogunda, it says, “Iri tu wili tu wili la fi da ile aye, la bu da ile,”
which means, “Dews pouring lightly, pouring lightly, was used to create the land of the living in order that goodness could come forth into existence at once.” The dew drops are particles of Oro – primordial matter - contained in the snail shell (in the creation myth oro is the earth that Obatala was carrying when he descended down the chain). Once empty, the shell remains as the representation of the base of causation from which matter derived.
The “goodness” speaks to eniyan – human beings. Eniyan translates as “the chosen ones.” This suggests that all humans have been chosen by Olodumare to continue bringing goodness to the earth. The oro then melted and was suspended in mid-air (referred to in the above Odu verse as the “priest of mid-air”). Oro then dropped (from Okanran Owonrin);
Oro gbe nu agba gbin kin
Oro to ja ninu agba o tobi bi agbe
A dia fun Oro-oro oro
Nigba un o ri enikan ba soro
Mo gba ngbin
Oro, the cause of great concern for the wise and experienced elders
It sounds, “Ku” (making the heart miss a beat)
“Ke” (as a ponderous object hitting the ground)
“Gi” (making the last sound before silence)
and “La”, with a loud cracking sound is transformed into a new state called “Ela.”
The oro that drops from the elderly is stupendous
It was divined for Oro-oro oro
Who did not have anyone to communicate with and he started groaning:
Oro, as primordial matter, has an innate urge to communicate:
HOORO, HOO-RO! (Ogbon, Imo, Oye, descend!)
Olodumare made HOO
(Ogbon, Imo, Oye)
HOO descended to become Hoo-ro.
Ela made Oro digestible and useful to human needs
Ela is the manifestation of the primal urge to communicate. It is the link between human and God; human and human; and human and the universe. This extensionistic conception, prevalent in all religions, is Oro, which manifested is Ela.
Who was the first to speak?
Ela was the first to speak.
Who was the first to communicate?
Ela was the first to communicate.
Who is this Ela?
It was the Hoo which descended
That we call Ela.
“The word “Ela” literally means “I am light" from the elision e- ala. The ability to become one with the Spirit of Ela is the ability to use Ori as a portal between the visible world and the invisible world. When an Awo is in an altered state of consciousness the thing that passes between dimensions is pure unformed ase symbolically referred to as ala or white light.
There is a Yoruba phrase, Ori-Ooro, which means, “head at dawn,” dawn being the beginning obviously. Thus, at one level of meaning, that is as oro being the earth dust in the snail shell and each ori having it's small pinch within it, we can say that Ori is Oro, and Oro is Ori: Individual manifestation is Ori.( Falokun Fatumbi)
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 8:59pm On May 23|
I repeat this is fake
Besides, who told you that someone is competing with you here? Very funny
where is your ábá which you translated to mean king in this your dictionary? I only pick that amongst other errors
Advice: please stop feeling like someone is having an hatred for you. Don't ever think when you post anything on an open forum everybody will accept it as authoritative.
You are not infallible, nobody is, know this know peace
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 9:07pm On May 23|
The "ba mi" in kare o ba mi does not mean king in that sentence sir, whoever attribute it to mean king is a fraud and if you're a speaker of Yoruba language either Eastern , Central or Nothern Yorùbá, you can never attribute that to mean king.
NB: I am from the Ẹ̀gbá sub, and I have interacted with my mother's people from Ìjẹ̀bú, non I repeat non of these people has ever attributed ba to mean king, the closet you can get in this is "iba" which mean father
Please, let's not destroy our heritage because of personal glory. Yorùbá tradition, language as well as culture is bigger than any of us.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 9:09pm On May 23|
It is is annoying when you see things like that online, some people who don't really understand the language would have been misinformed. This is very painful honestly
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 9:41pm On May 23|
rhektor:It is indeed very painful.
Scam artists like him have an annoying methodology:
In order to spread their falsehoods to unsuspecting folks, they list some basic true information alongside their listed falsehoods.
That way unsuspecting folks who are familiar with such true information are deceived into gulping up the actual falsehood which these scammers really seek to peddle.
But God is exposing them through folks of good will like you and me amongst several others.
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|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 3:32pm On May 24|
rhektor:Lol! Ok ,what does Ka re Ba mi / Ka re O ba mi ? Perhaps explain what you know
Meanwhile, "Ba mi is/means "my lord"/ "My king". This word is indiscretly used on my lineage to praise princes or King. Beside,it is a word adopted by chritian Yorubas to acknowledge God as lord,father,king etc over them.
Again, "Bami" is also a generic word used by elders,most often elderly man to salute a younger one after the latter had greeted the elderly one in a respectful way.
Are you aware that no Yoruba dialects is inferior to any others. So, dont get me wrong. I am a researcher, which has given priviledge to me to know some word that are ancient Yorubas words which are used sparingly in one area for something and something else in another or at best homophone. Take for example: Àrẹ(Crown) and Àrẹ(lord/leader).
Lastly, I am never egocentric or chasing after self glory as you dim it fit on me which you rhetorically used the word on me, but I have never done such in the past or present nor such occuring in the future. I am only privilege to know what many do not know.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 4:02pm On May 24|
TAO11:Say a man like you that do not know the meaning of OBATALA! Kaare;
Go read Ifaodu verse on creation to know the obarisha/Obatala
Mr. how is my methodology annoying to Ignorant like you? In Scholarly world when one postulate or/ theorise, is that what is expected is that such proof his /her postulation with evidence such as archeological ,written or any link in this regard to proof it. Learn sir to be up to date.
Furthermore they are account of renown scholars who are also fake when they claimed according to ifaodu that gods married human beings and deities/gods married themselves.
Accordingly, Deities and Spirits marry and have children - Yoruba believe that deities and spirits exist according to their sexual status. It was stated, “after the arrival of the divinities (on earth, sic) human population increased at Ife in two ways. The divinity married among them and gave birth to the lineage of men who later become the divine ruler” (Wande, 1976).
Again, certain Yoruba myths hold that divinities married and bore children for instance, Odoje was daughter to Orisala (Elubuibon, 1998).
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 4:05pm On May 24|
Olu317:Scam artist busted.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by RedboneSmith(m): 4:56pm On May 24|
There is no meaningful way to break down "Olisa" in Igbo.
If you pronounce it as òlísà, then it sounds like "Wild Devourer" or "Voracious Devourer", if you break it down to "ori/oli" - eater, and 'sa' which is a suffix used to denote something done in a wild, widespread or haphazard manner.
But the word is pronounced as òlìsà, and cannot be broken down into meaningful components in Igbo.
At the risk of angering other Igbo members of this forum, I'll state that it is my opinion that olisa (as well as obasi, which is another word used in some parts of Igboland for the Supreme Deity) is a loanword.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 5:25pm On May 24|
TAO11:Who is the scam if not you! A man who pretended to be a lady . Of course you'r the real scam. Beside your pattern of writing has burst your personality .
Need I correct you that NO word in English language as burst has either "past" or "past participle" , called busted or bursted . But here you are flaunting ego!Past tense is Burst and same with past participle. Mon dieu!
Perhaps, you are agnostically inclined because I had thought you have something to inform on Yoruba deity(ies )in other that people will learn. So, shoot your information and do not mess this Op's intention to learn and many of us learning as well.
Mind you, someone like me,isn't epitomising knowledge nor creating chaotic scene on Yoruba Ifaodu's creation myth for learners as the alpha and Omega intellectually as seemingly as you do o'er here.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by rhektor(m): 5:32pm On May 24|
You actually did not proof anything with this your submission you instead shot yourself in the foot with the Àre =crown and Àre = lord/leader example
Àrè = is actually a type of crown not just crown. It is called Adé Àrè while the right word for lord/leader is Ààrẹ. Can you see the difference now? You claim to be a researcher but you couldn't differentiate between two different Yorùbá words? Both words can only be mistaken by a non-Yorùbá speaker.
Both words are not even written same way. Lastly, watch carefully how you use diacritics, you surely need serous study on that aspect of your writing style
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 5:43pm On May 24|
rhektor:Without iota of doubt, there are more 'ba' in Yoruba language with different diacritics that has different meaning which can be [ b]homograph, homophone,homonym[/b] and not
heterograph in nature
My dear , this is a platorm for learning and one need be careful if such does not have the perequisite to do justice to question to being asked. So, I am not here to dilly dally. Beside, Iam a thorough Yoruba language's speaker
Howbeit,you are angry, which may seem normal before you but not to me because Idon't see reason for such in as much as I am only sharing knowledge. Instead, If you're in doubt, consult written books to be your guide, dictionaries account, elders in your environment, elders in your hometown, Ifaodu priests, and self researches. No hard feeling.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 6:11pm On May 24|
rhektor:What do Ife call crown with beaded fringes? You actually thought Ade is Crown ? Crown with beads are called Àrẹ. And it is not self shot.
Let me just posit here that, what you dont know but do research on it. This is an ancient word for crown in Yoruba land.Beside , Ompetu still use this word for crown,likewise Ileife
Ade : to wear something on the head(humanly)
Ade: adorn with majestical or royalty( Name among Yorubas). etc
From the etymo : de
meaning: to put on; head or cover it.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 6:37pm On May 24|
Olu317:Your rant and face saving is unfortunately too late.
Everyone already realized that you’re a scam artist. Go check the statistics.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by TAO11(f): 6:39pm On May 24|
rhektor:He obviously doesn’t have a single clue on how to apply diacritics to Yoruba words.
What is even more unfortunate is that he has lost all hopes of learning it.
|Re: Any One Here Interested In Discussing Yoruba Deities? by Olu317(m): 8:12pm On May 24|
TAO11:You try........post something that mentioned any of the renowned deity. Let me be but proof you are a worthy son of Yorubaland.
This is a Yoruba historical deities thread and not Hebrew and Yoruba perspective. So,don't derail it. O yá, proof you are worthy son.
Unlike you, I don't rant sir because monikers here can testify to it, even if my research look beyond their comprehension,which I blame them not since, my work is yet to be documented. So it will naturally look awkward. Seriously, I am dealing with it.
But what can we posit about you? Least I forget, you bullied Edos even if Oramiyan actually went overthere. And this same man came back to Ileife to reign. But are you aware that Owodo as a name was a prince in Ileife; one of the ancestor of Ooni Abelewa? You see, I am not like you and can't be.
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