KnownUnknown:


Emotions result in involuntary bodily reactions that can be measured objectively by pupil dilation (eye tracking), skin conductance (EDA/GSR), brain activity (EEG, fMRI), heart rate (ECG), and facial expressions.
While emotions are associated with bodily reactions that are activated through neurotransmitters and hormones released by the brain, feelings are the conscious experience of emotional reactions that we call love, anger, fear, etc. The intensity of the feeling ( your examples above) will depend on various factors and can also be measured, so we can device a framework to determine who you love most or who is most grateful for a $5000 gift.

You used cheerleading decibels to measure joy/excitement the other time. Hope you have learned better. Like i have clearly stated, there is no scientific consistency to what you are saying. There is no device available to measure most grateful, stop kidding. As i havve explained already, emotions and intellect are physical products of the soul.

KnownUnknown:


You cannot use the electromagnetic spectrum as an analogy for your soul. While we only see a sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum, we can detect some of it in other physical ways and through the use of various tools. You say the soul includes emotions, intellect, and a will but the brain is the source of the emotions, intellect, and will because these are the names we give to various brain functions.

Earlier you said the soul requires a functioning brain to work; however the brain works without the soul or the other thing you call spirit.
If one rightly views the bible as Jewish mythology/philosophy and Roman fiction, there is no need to try to view reality through its lens, regard it as infallible, and ignore knowledge for superstition.

The spectrum is a good explanation/comparison as it shows you that something can be invisible but reflect physically. You don't see x-ray light but there is a machine that produces X-rays for you to see. The machine or the X-ray pictures are not the x-ray light. Same way the soul sometimes manifests physical through the expression of emotions and intellect.
i said/meant that the soul's function is physically seen or expressed by emotions and intellect, not that the soul cannot function without a brain. The scriptures have long taught and been right on many issues. It knows man evidently more than man is still struggling to know himself. It changes man more easily and better than man's efforts have so far tried. It's a moving train that sweeps anything and anyone along its way for centuries. It has been working and continues to work, while man has continued to need fixing, and keeps getting fixed by the Bible every time. It is only wisdom to submit to the greater instead of aimless struggles that do not satisfy.

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The spectrum is a good explanation/comparison as it shows you that something can be invisible but reflect physically. You don't see x-ray light but there is a machine that produces X-rays for you to see. The machine or the X-ray pictures are not the x-ray light. Same way the soul sometimes manifests physical through the expression of emotions and intellect.

The electromagnetic spectrum is not a good explanation for the soul because we can detect it regardless if it's visible or invisible unlike the soul. Regardless if x-ray, gamma rays, or infrared are invisible to us, they are reproducible and can be detectable unlike the soul.
Your claim of Soul is akin to claiming that there is invisible/undetectable part of the spectrum called the Blum. Or that the Blum is the source of gamma rays and xrays.

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i said/meant that the soul's function is physically seen or expressed by emotions and intellect, not that the soul cannot function without a brain.

I, and others, said the brain's function is physically seen or expressed by emotions and intellect, and the soul is an idea that does not explain anything except it's used as a metaphor for emotions/feelings e.g. "Soul" Music.
I used DMX's vegetative brain and it's hampered ability to emote as an example of how the brain and emotions are obviously tied together but you insisted that DMX still had emotions because if his "soul" but couldn't express it because the brain was "fried", which indicates that your concept of soul is brain dependent. You haven't said anything to prove otherwise because all your examples for soul are traceable to, and nonexistent without, the brain.

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The scriptures have long taught and been right on many issues. It knows man evidently more than man is still struggling to know himself. It changes man more easily and better than man's efforts have so far tried. It's a moving train that sweeps anything and anyone along its way for centuries. It has been working and continues to work, while man has continued to need fixing, and keeps getting fixed by the Bible every time. It is only wisdom to submit to the greater instead of aimless struggles that do not satisfy.

Sigh. Your scriptures were written by men like me who were born of vaginas, shit themselves as infants, breathe oxygen, drink water, and who will die, like me. There is nothing special about "the scriptures", the people who wrote them, or the people who compiled them and called the collection "The Bible". Their beliefs, however clever or true there were for their time and to people like you, remains unfounded and are not better or more accurate about man/nature than other unfounded beliefs that you readily dismiss.

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You used cheerleading decibels to measure joy/excitement the other time. Hope you have learned better. Like i have clearly stated, there is no scientific consistency to what you are saying. There is no device available to measure most grateful, stop kidding. As i havve explained already, emotions and intellect are physical products of the soul.

Sound decibels produced by fans in a stadium can be used as measure of excitement. I never said joy but sound decibels can also be part of the framework for measuring joy. You haven't taught anything so please don't get arrogant.
Gratefulness can be measured on a determined scale. e.g. N5000 is not significant to me but to you it’s significant. So if someone gave us both N5000 each, you’d be more grateful than me. On a scale of 1-5, your gratefulness could be 4 while mine is 2.
The emotions that gave rise to the feeling of gratefulness can also be measured as already shown and used to validate the gratefulness scale.

You haven't explained anything but make claims about the Blum Soul. Emotions/intellect are brain functions that can be measured. Also, your apparent misunderstanding of science leads you to erroneously believe measurement is strictly quantitative whereas it can also be qualitative.

Can a soul emote or display intellect without a functioning brain?

KnownUnknown:


The electromagnetic spectrum is not a good explanation for the soul because we can detect it regardless if it's visible or invisible unlike the soul. Regardless if x-ray, gamma rays, or infrared are invisible to us, they are reproducible and can be detectable unlike the soul.
Your claim of Soul is akin to claiming that there is invisible/undetectable part of the spectrum called the Blum. Or that the Blum is the source of gamma rays and xrays.

It is a very good explanation, albeit not a parallel or equal. The spectrum simply shows that things can be INVISIBLE to the human eyes/senses and yet exist and be revealed through other medium. Same way you ask for physical evidence of the soul and i say like the Bible says that the soul is the part of the human responsible for emotions and intellect. If an Authority mentions the "Blum", i'll take it serious for consideration, not just mentioning for the sake of it.

I, and others, said the brain's function is physically seen or expressed by emotions and intellect, and the soul is an idea that does not explain anything except it's used as a metaphor for emotions/feelings e.g. "Soul" Music.
I used DMX's vegetative brain and it's hampered ability to emote as an example of how the brain and emotions are obviously tied together but you insisted that DMX still had emotions because if his "soul" but couldn't express it because the brain was "fried", which indicates that your concept of soul is brain dependent. You haven't said anything to prove otherwise because all your examples for soul are traceable to, and nonexistent without, the brain.

The concept of the soul is scripture dependent, not brain dependent. It is you who is looking for physical evidence that has a lot to say about the brain. Like i have said, you cannot get scientific or physical or laboratory evidence for things that are ethereal.

Sigh. Your scriptures were written by men like me who were born of vaginas, shit themselves as infants, breathe oxygen, drink water, and who will die, like me. There is nothing special about "the scriptures", the people who wrote them, or the people who compiled them and called the collection "The Bible". Their beliefs, however clever or true there were for their time and to people like you, remains unfounded and are not better or more accurate about man/nature than other unfounded beliefs that you readily dismiss.

Give two examples of books of same or higher significance for proper comparison.

KnownUnknown:


Sound decibels produced by fans in a stadium can be used as measure of excitement. I never said joy but sound decibels can also be part of the framework for measuring joy. You haven't taught anything so please don't get arrogant.
Gratefulness can be measured on a determined scale. e.g. N5000 is not significant to me but to you it’s significant. So if someone gave us both N5000 each, you’d be more grateful than me. On a scale of 1-5, your gratefulness could be 4 while mine is 2.
The emotions that gave rise to the feeling of gratefulness can also be measured as already shown and used to validate the gratefulness scale.

You haven't explained anything but make claims about the Blum Soul. Emotions/intellect are brain functions that can be measured. Also, your apparent misunderstanding of science leads you to erroneously believe measurement is strictly quantitative whereas it can also be qualitative.

Can a soul emote or display intellect without a functioning brain?

Sound decibels are not an accurate measure of individual emotion, except you do not know what you are talking of like i suspect. That i am very happy or happier than you does not mean i have to produce decibels. It is in no way a accurate measure and can even be a false pointer. You briefly left the absurd decibel theory, that was why i hoped you had learned not to return to it, but evidently you did not learn. Two people producing the same amount of decibel does not mean they are going through the same thing, but these are your pointers and standards.
Either you are quite young or very naive not to know what true gratitude is. So you think gratitude is by what one has or does not have? SMH.
You are yet to show us how you truely measure individual emotions. Repetition is not the same thing as truth. Give us standard qualitative measurement for guile, love, hatred, bitterness. You are talking of heart rate and decibels. How many decibels or rate or beat is the standard for love? If it is X beats, are you saying that those above that truly love and those below do not?

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It's akin to saying we should disregard X-rays and gamma rays and electromagnetism for instance. While you cannot see them, you can see their effects on visible things as it were. The functions of the soul include emotions, intellect and a will. These are observable things.
Like i have well stated, individual emotions are not generally repeating, measurable or the same. Whatever, influence(r) you might blame or claim, that's the truth. The crux and summary then goes to the authority and the effect/power of the Bible, as that's where i'm coming from.
The teaching and influence of the Bible is so powerful and drastic that it leaves the diligent student with real reasons to take what it says about the human soul seriously.

And im telling you that human emotions are repeatable...9/ 10 times i can make you angry by indulging in certain behaviours. If i hit you hard each time, you will be angry for most of the episodes. Human emotions are repeatable....i dnt get why you seem to think they are not. Gamma rays can be confirmed through other scientific tools and its effects as well. In order to state that gamma rays caused so so and so to happen we must confirm first that gamma rays exist. Same applies to the soul, the soul needs to be proven for us to attribute emotions to it. You have failed to do that. What shows that it is not the work of fairy dust or shows its not the work of my grandpa's ghost? Prove the soul first before anything else.

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Lol, you were concerned that God CANNOT work at night. After giving you proof, you're asking for magnitude. i should do well to increase my "emotion magnitude" too.

Okay let me track back....and rephrase.

Why did he not work in the night during the creation story? It may have to do with the magnitude of the miracle....but lets not go there.just answer the question. Why did he not work in the night if he could, since miracles were performed in the night?

kimco:



Okay let me track back....and rephrase.

Why did he not work in the night during the creation story? It may have to do with the magnitude of the miracle....but lets not go there.just answer the question. Why did he not work in the night if he could, since miracles were performed in the night?

It can be any reason. Like i said, did not is not the same as can not. You don't just do things simply because you can do them, do you?
On a church or Bible school note/level, the lesson is one of rest. Just like the sabbath day. God worked six days and rested on the seventh day, as an example/pattern for man to rest and to rest other creatures and creation. Life is not all about work.

Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 
Exo_20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo_20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo_23:12  Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.

kimco:


And im telling you that human emotions are repeatable...9/ 10 times i can make you angry by indulging in certain behaviours. If i hit you hard each time, you will be angry for most of the episodes. Human emotions are repeatable....i dnt get why you seem to think they are not. Gamma rays can be confirmed through other scientific tools and its effects as well. In order to state that gamma rays caused so so and so to happen we must confirm first that gamma rays exist. Same applies to the soul, the soul needs to be proven for us to attribute emotions to it. You have failed to do that. What shows that it is not the work of fairy dust or shows its not the work of my grandpa's ghost? Prove the soul first before anything else.

Individual emotions are not measurable or repeatable. For instance, a true christian will not get angry at all, he will attempt to make peace or even turn the other cheek as it were. Also, the so called influence(r)s can come into play. One may not get angry because of what may be lost by the anger, or because of what was the consequence of the first anger or previous episodes of anger. Some may even feel that they deserve to be hit harder each time.
i have proven the existence of the soul to you, only that you dismissed my evidence without any consideration. This is why i already stated that it is not subjected to physical or scientific or laboratory evidence. You agree with the physical characteristics of the soul like emotion and intellect), only that you do not agree that the soul is responsible. There is no further way i can help you in the lab on that. You need to perhaps contest the authority of the Scriptures. If you told me the dream you had and i do not believe it due to lack of lab evidence, there's nothing much you can do for me in the regard. It does not mean you did not have the dream.

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Individual emotions are not measurable or repeatable. For instance, a true christian will not get angry at all, he will attempt to make peace or even turn the other cheek as it were. Also, the so called influence(r)s can come into play. One may not get angry because of what may be lost by the anger, or because of what was the consequence of the first anger or previous episodes of anger. Some may even feel that they deserve to be hit harder each time.
i have proven the existence of the soul to you, only that you dismissed my evidence without any consideration. This is why i already stated that it is not subjected to physical or scientific or laboratory evidence. You agree with the physical characteristics of the soul like emotion and intellect), only that you do not agree that the soul is responsible. There is no further way i can help you in the lab on that. You need to perhaps contest the authority of the Scriptures. If you told me the dream you had and i do not believe it due to lack of lab evidence, there's nothing much you can do for me in the regard. It does not mean you did not have the dream.

Bro let's agree to disagree...still haven't provided the evidence for the soul.... Nevermind, I know you cant.

kimco:


Bro let's agree to disagree...still haven't provided the evidence for the soul.... Nevermind, I know you cant.

i told you from the start, you can't subject the ethereal to laboratory or science. It is above science. What i would advise is that you explore the validity and authority of the Bible and when you find it, believe it. Jesus Christ still transforms and saves souls in their millions so that they will not die or perish. Cheers

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i told you from the start, you can't subject the ethereal to laboratory or science. It is above science. What i would advise is that you explore the validity and authority of the Bible and when you find it, believe it. Jesus Christ still transforms and saves souls in their millions so that they will not die or perish. Cheers

You cannot ask me to use the bible as an authority when t has no proof of its authenticity. Saying the soul is ethereal and so the soul must just be believed to exist is unreal. What you are
asking me to do is to suspend reason. I refuse to do so, and you should refuse it too.

kimco:


You cannot ask me to use the bible as an authority when t has no proof of its authenticity. Saying the soul is ethereal and so the soul must just be believed to exist is unreal. What you are
asking me to do is to suspend reason. I refuse to do so, and you should refuse it too.

Not at all, i have only asked you to be more open minded and not box all your understanding and experience to the limited prisms of the laboratory. The ethereal goes above and beyond the laboratory and physical. As useful as the meter rule is, you cannot use it to measure temperature. You need something else.

i've asked you to reasonably consider the authority and authenticity of the Bible especially on matters beyond the physical. Evidently, there are matters beyond the physical. Billions of humans all through humanity and in every continent have testified to the reality of the ethereal and the supernatural. What makes one metal more precious than another metal? That will make for a curious debate, but summarily, we'll usually submit to the popular view and take the precious metal as precious and not garbage. If billions of people are saying and claiming something, you should be wise to more carefully consider it than dismiss it whimsically. Reasonably explain what you mean by proof of authenticity and examples of books that pass your gauge.

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Not at all, i have only asked you to be more open minded and not box all your understanding and experience to the limited prisms of the laboratory. The ethereal goes above and beyond the laboratory and physical. As useful as the meter rule is, you cannot use it to measure temperature. You need something else.

i've asked you to reasonably consider the authority and authenticity of the Bible especially on matters beyond the physical. Evidently, there are matters beyond the physical. Billions of humans all through humanity and in every continent have testified to the reality of the ethereal and the supernatural. What makes one metal more precious than another metal? That will make for a curious debate, but summarily, we'll usually submit to the popular view and take the precious metal as precious and not garbage. If billions of people are saying and claiming something, you should be wise to more carefully consider it than dismiss it whimsically. Reasonably explain what you mean by proof of authenticity and examples of books that pass your gauge.

1. I was a radical christian. I am still a christian, but because of fellowship, nothing more nothing less. I care for people...not for entities I cant prove.

2. Consensus is not fact. I am only convinced by proof. Nothing more.

kimco:


1. I was a radical christian. I am still a christian, but because of fellowship, nothing more nothing less. I care for people...not for entities I cant prove.

2. Consensus is not fact. I am only convinced by proof. Nothing more.

What is the meaning of radical christian? Can you also give biblical examples? i think i asked earlier. Can you believe or be convinced that i had a dream?

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What is the meaning of radical christian? Can you also give biblical examples? i think i asked earlier. Can you believe or be convinced that i had a dream?

Radical christian aka Jnr Jesus type.

Also i believe every human is capable of dreaming. However i have no way of verifying if what you say you dreamt about is true or false. I have yet to meet a person who says they have never dreamt and that anyone who says they dream is a liar.

kimco:


Radical christian aka Jnr Jesus type.

Also i believe every human is capable of dreaming. However i have no way of verifying if what you say you dreamt about is true or false. I have yet to meet a person who says they have never dreamt and that anyone who says they dream is a liar.

In that case, being radical does not make you a true christian. It just shows you are very expressive and driven.
You have no way of verifying what happened in a dream. Not everything is subject to physical verification to be true.

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In that case, being radical does not make you a true christian. It just shows you are very expressive and driven.
You have no way of verifying what happened in a dream. Not everything is subject to physical verification to be true.

No true Scotsman fallacy at it finest. I expected exactly this.

kimco:


No true Scotsman fallacy at it finest. I expected exactly this.

That's quite a long expectation knowing it's the truth.

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That's quite a long expectation knowing it's the truth.

Im sure only your way is the true christian way.

kimco:


Im sure only your way is the true christian way.

i don't have a way fortunately, Jesus Christ is the way.

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i don't have a way fortunately, Jesus Christ is the way.

Then how did you discern my way was the wrong way and yours the right way?

kimco:


Then how did you discern my way was the wrong way and yours the right way?

Ohh i did? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and way?

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Ohh i did? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and way?

I subscribe to most of his ideals....but i don't belief in Christ as a lord to be worshipped.

kimco:


I subscribe to most of his ideals....but i don't belief in Christ as a lord to be worshipped.

Do you subscribe to His ideal of Heaven and His coming back to take people?

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Do you subscribe to His ideal of Heaven and His coming back to take people?

No! Heaven is here. Hell is here. Let's create what we want to create and stop day dreaming

kimco:
No! Heaven is here. Hell is here. Let's create what we want to create and stop day dreaming

You don't share His ideals. You can't even prove a dream, remember? Not to begin on a daydream.

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You don't share His ideals. You can't even prove a dream, remember? Not to begin on a daydream.

What are you even on about? I cannot prove a dream? How about everyone dreams and can corroborate that fact. Or is everyone else lying? And that is just the non technical proof. Besides what has that got to do with ideals? Have you lost the plot here?

kimco:


What are you even on about? I cannot prove a dream? How about everyone dreams and can corroborate that fact. Or is everyone else lying? And that is just the non technical proof. Besides what has that got to do with ideals? Have you lost the plot here?

There you go. You want to prove dreams using "non technical" proof, but you have a problem with me doing same to prove the supernatural. This is the very plot, i drew it.

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There you go. You want to prove dreams using "non technical" proof, but you have a problem with me doing same to prove the supernatural. This is the very plot, i drew it.

No it is not! Its like saying, how do you prove pain without technical test. This is a silly comparison. Everyone alive has reported as having dreamt at least ones. Same as having felt pain...not everyone can claim to have visited the supernatural so you drawing the parallel argument is just poor from you.

Anyways

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/58646-brain-waves-dreaming.html

This might help. Scientific knowledge and tools will continue to improve.