By sheer Will, Discipline, Hard work, Sacrifice & Talent. But it's redundant posing this question to Muslims because if Muslims knew the real answer, we won't even have to ask.

And it is difficult enough conversation to have with Muslims since half the time, they're apparently still basking in the glories of the so called Islamic golden age.

And the remaining time that is left, they spend lamenting the death of the "True Islam" that birth the Islamic golden age, & the need for Muslims to return to it to reclaim their former glories.

Conservative & Liberal Attempt To Revive Muslim Civilization

The result of this of course are disasters in epic proportion like the bloody Wahhabi sect that slaughtered hundred of thousands of Muslims between the 18th & 20th century to reclaim the holy cities & enforce True Islam. Thinking they'd done their job, the Wahhabis hung their swords & waited for manna from heaven, but manna did not fall.

By the 1950s-60s, more Muslims were starting to move on, figuring from the failure of Wahhabism or Muslim Brotherhood(MB) that the era of Islam was over. Hence the popularity of secular dictators & nationalist regimes in the Muslim world, like Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt.

Yet, other Muslims reached a different conclusion, which is that the True Islam is a lot less prescriptive & restrictive than the Wahhabis or MB credit it for. And that it wasn't this True Islam that the Wahhabis & MB tried.

Muhammad Taha suggested only the Meccan passages of Qur'an be eternally binding. Ahmed Subhy Mansur recommended vetting hadith before ultimately resolving to thrash everything. Rashad Khalifa called against hadith & even announced himself a messenger.

The Root of Liberal Islam & Why It Still Won't Save The Day

You can say that modern Qur'anism is an offspring of these more liberal yet vain attempts to re-invigorate Islam, while at the same time, shift things away from the old, antiquated ways of the Wahhabis & MB, the ways that no longer worked.

The problem with these liberal attempts to correct course & fix things is that, just like their conservative counterpart, they failed to appreciate the generations of talent, sacrifice, hard work & discipline behind modern western civilization.

And they say, "If only we could just practice the True Islam, everything will fall into place." And they take this rhetoric entirely on faith alone. Never does the Qur'an guarantee it. Nevertheless, pure empty faith that by turning to True Islam, we can recreate the Islamic golden age.

The Term 'Islamic Golden Age' Is Misleading

An Islamic golden age that didn't even emerge untill nearly 200 years after Muhammad. And even when it did emerge, it benefitted from immense contribution from Zoroastrians & Christians. In fact, here is what the Abbasid Caliph Al Mamun said;

The Persians(Zoroastrians) ruled for a thousand years and did not need us Arabs even for a day. We(Muslim Arabs) have been ruling them for one or two centuries and cannot do without them for an hour.

Learn The True Lessons of The Islamic Golden Age & The Rise of Western Civilization.

And thus, just as those who learnt the wrong lessons from modern western civilization credit it's existence to slavery or colonialism; those who learnt the wrong lesson from Islamic golden age credit its existence to some True Islam.

The west is ahead for two main reason

Incessant warfare in europe led to the development of far greater military doctrine, machine and tech. Haven't you ever wondered why europe doesn't have tribes, the weak ones were absorbed or wiped.

They invented the scientific method coupled with the enlightenment and vigorous pursuit of scientific truth and the elevation of scientific truth over religious dogma. Truth be told, religions in general are anti intellectual, but this issue is much more apparent in islam, we also have tolerance issues relating to alternative viewpoints and lifestyle.

Ironically we're the most worldly religion

The Term 'Islamic Golden Age' Is Misleading

An Islamic golden age that didn't even emerge untill nearly 200 years after Muhammad. And even when it did emerge, it benefitted from immense contribution from Zoroastrians & Christians.

Can you see how You shoot your own foot when you say the "'Islamic Golden Age' Is Misleading" but "even when it did emerge, it benefitted from...".

Notwithstanding, and with regard to the above,

“If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind One People: but they will not cease to be diverse.” Sura Hood, verse 118

“O mankind! We created you from male and female and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily, the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is fully informed.” Sura Hujurat, verse 13

Yes, he humbled you by letting you go hungry and then feeding you with manna, a food previously unknown to you and your ancestors. He did it to teach you that people do not live by bread alone; rather, we live by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord. Deuteronomy 8:3

As Christ would put it, [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A4&version=NLT]those who read only one book will become malnourished[/url], so you might see how we benefit from learning from Islam, and Christianity, and Zoroastrianism and etc, as it makes us understand each other better and develop and evolve to live in peace.

As is said, Allah is most merciful and and all knowing and immensely wise.

budaatum:


Can you see how You shoot your own foot when you say the "'Islamic Golden Age' Is Misleading" but "even when it did emerge, it benefitted from...".

Notwithstanding, and with regard to the above,

“If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind One People: but they will not cease to be diverse.” Sura Hood, verse 118

“O mankind! We created you from male and female and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily, the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is fully informed.” Sura Hujurat, verse 13

Yes, he humbled you by letting you go hungry and then feeding you with manna, a food previously unknown to you and your ancestors. He did it to teach you that people do not live by bread alone; rather, we live by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord. Deuteronomy 8:3

As Christ would put it, [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A4&version=NLT]those who read only one book will become malnourished[/url], so you might see how we benefit from learning from Islam, and Christianity, and Zoroastrianism and etc, as it makes us understand each other better and develop and evolve to live in peace.

As is said, Allah is most merciful and and all knowing and immensely wise.

How can anyone take you seriously? You are defending islam by preaching christianity? lol

The West is ahead because-

-They many civilizations/regions- this is true for early Europe. They could learn from different cultures

-Europe was and is also a strategically located continent for trade- it shares boundaries with Asia and the middle east

-They had industrialisation period due to war. The necessity of war created the need for machines, practicality and pragmatism.

-They outgrew christianity. After 100 years plus of war, common sense prevailed for peace.

-Winter. The necessity of surviving winter means you need to know how to build strong and warm houses for shelter. And also create agriculatural systems that help to store/manage food during harsh weather.




Islam, on the other hand, became more influential among the middle easterners rather than give way to industrialization and liberalism. Religion is not logical or realistic. By nature, faith works against science. Without science, a society cannot grow.

JackBizzle:


How can anyone take you seriously? You are defending islam by preaching christianity? lol

Anyone is not everyone, JackBizzle. Some might not see "defending and preaching", since I am not doing either. But do point out some so everyone might see what you see and not take buda seriously please.

It's been a while!

JackBizzle:
Islam, on the other hand, became more influential among the middle easterners rather than give way to industrialization and liberalism.

Since the middle easterners did not have the same challenges that Europe had, industrialisation and liberalism might not have been required as such, after all it would be awkward liberalising the limited water resource they had. What Islam did was unite a people facing common challenges so they could surmount those challenges together. It's the same as what the Catholic Church and the Roman Empire it evolved from did, unite Europe under one banner under one book and under one cross to defend itself against it's challenges.

In Yoruba we call it agbajọ ọwọ ni gbe eru de ori. Kind of like defying a God who saw people make bricks and fire them and decided to scatta scatta them if you asked me.

JackBizzle:

Religion is not logical or realistic. By nature, faith works against science. Without science, a society cannot grow.

Religion is what we do here, JackBizzle. We state our stories for each other to read and consider, as you've done and as I am doing back to you. We are religionising.

Religion is the use of stories to unite a people despite not being "logical or realistic". The educative part of that "not logical or realistic" religious education (indoctrination, etc), is to make one consider and determine and decide what one is told, hence, "ask and knock and see" with all your (scientific) senses.

By nature, faith does definitely not work against science! Though I must admit that that depends on what you mean by faith, because science not built on faith will definitely not grow a society, is what I think. So please do tell, what you mean by faith?

budaatum:


Since the middle easterners did not have the same challenges that Europe had, industrialisation and liberalism might not have been required as such, after all it would be awkward liberalising the limited water resource they had. What Islam did was unite a people facing common challenges so they could surmount those challenges together. It's the same as what the Catholic Church and the Roman Empire it evolved from did, unite Europe under one banner under one book and under one cross to defend itself against it's challenges.

In Yoruba we call it agbajọ ọwọ ni gbe eru de ori. Kind of like defying a God who saw people make bricks and fire them and decided to scatta scatta them if you asked me.


Religion is what we do here, JackBizzle. We state our stories for each other to read and consider, as you've done and as I am doing back to you. We are religionising.

Religion is the use of stories to unite a people despite not being "logical or realistic". The educative part of that "not logical or realistic" religious education (indoctrination, etc), is to make one consider and determine and decide what one is told, hence, "ask and knock and see" with all your (scientific) senses.

By nature, faith does definitely not work against science! Though I must admit that that depends on what you mean by faith, because science not built on faith will definitely not grow a society, is what I think. So please do tell, what you mean by faith?

Well said.

I think we should use two words instead- "hope" and "faith", for clarity.

"Hope" is what scientists have when they test if mango tree bark can cure malaria.

"Faith" for me, whenever I use it, is meant to convey "religious faith- that is, belief without evidence. Especially the supernatural kind.

JackBizzle:

Well said.

I think we should use two words instead- "hope" and "faith", for clarity.

"Hope" is what scientists have when they test if mango tree bark can cure malaria.

"Faith" for me, whenever I use it, is meant to convey "religious faith- that is, belief without evidence. Especially the supernatural kind.

"Hope" is what I have when I sit on my ass waiting for manna to fall in to my mouth while someone wipes my ass. I usually end up stinky and hungry when ever I "hope".

"Faith", for me, whenever I use it which is very rare, is what I have after I have tested if "mango bark can cure malaria". I will test it so well till I have faith in the knowledge gained.

I am testing you well, to see if you are "anyone". And my faith in you is immense and unwavering.

budaatum:


"Hope" is what I have when I sit on my ass waiting for manna to fall in to my mouth while someone wipes my ass. I usually end up stinky and hungry when ever I "hope".

"Faith", for me, whenever I use it which is very rare, is what I have after I have tested if "mango bark can cure malaria". I will test it so well till I have faith in the knowledge gained.

I am testing you well, to see if you are "anyone".
And my faith in you is immense and unwavering.

Nonsense of the highest order.

JackBizzle:


Nonsense of the highest order.

Of the most highest order indeed.