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Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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Isah In The Quran Is Not The Same Person As Jesus Christ. / Is Jesus Same Person As The Father? / Is Jesus God? (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 4:17pm On Jun 21, 2021
MaxInDHouse:


Please quote or cite it where Jesus called himself God! smiley
when Jesus said he and his father are one the jews understood that Jesus was saying he is God because to be one with God then that person must equally be God.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 4:31pm On Jun 21, 2021
efficiencie:


Jesus is not the Father but He is ONE with the Father (John 10:30). Oneness here signifies the highest level of unity. Unity so great that the Jesus does nothing except He sees His Father do it (John 5:19). Unity so great that it extends to the fusion of divinity where the LORD Jesus can be in the Father and the Father in the LORD Jesus (John 17:21). Unity so great that all that belongs to the Father also belongs to the LORD Jesus and all that belongs to the LORD Jesus also belongs to the Father (John 17:10). Unity so great that the ONLY way to the Father is through the LORD Jesus (John 14:6)...
yes you are are right that Jesus is not the father, he never said so. However Jesus and the father are same God just as you are one being but like you and I God is a three personal being unlike us humans that is unipersonal. Our default state is that we are only one person we see ourself so. Hence, when using a pronoun we use I for ourself. God is not so, God can use I, me, we and us just for himself because God is a tri personal being who exist as three separate individuals who acts separately, and can relate with one another but yet are aware they are one and hence are one being.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:34pm On Jun 21, 2021
livingchrist:
when Jesus said he and his father are one the jews understood that Jesus was saying he is God because to be one with God then that person must equally be God.

Sorry your stereotype response is flawed Sir! cheesy
Jesus said himself and his father are one the same way he said himself, his father and his numerous disciples will become one just as he and his father are one! John 17:22

Therefore those people misunderstood Jesus just as many of those who even believe him misunderstood him! John 6:66

Just quote or cite one verse where Jesus said "i am God" or "i am the father" period! cheesy
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by Bishopkingsley(m): 4:44pm On Jun 21, 2021
Yes
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by Myer(m): 7:19pm On Jun 21, 2021
hupernikao:


Bro, I trust you have remained strong, spirit, soul and body.

Two opposing view can never be right at the same time when viewing the scriptures and any literature per say.

When you have opposing view in bible study, one or two of both of these things are happening.

1. One of the is wrong
2. Both of them are wrong


Secondly, the 3 scriptures you quoted above does not in any facts support the existence of Jesus as angel, which is what the other is seeing in his imaginative scriptures.

Truthfully also, when study wholesomely, all scriptures pointed to Christ as the GOD of OT writings, the MAN in the prophecies of the prophets of old, revealed in HUMANITY in this last days.

Great.
I think you need to understand the concept of perspectives more before you draw such conclusions.
Two opposing views could actually be right depending on the perspective.

I actually was addressing the issue of Trinity and not Angels which explains the verses I quoted.

I also think you need to learn to unbox God even from a biblical perspective. This was the error of the Pharisees and Jews. They also concluded that God could never go out of what the Law and Prophets taught them. Hence they ended up not accepting Jesus as even the Son of God but even went as far as crucifying their Lord.

God is God because he's Omni-everything.

So it's very possible you're seeing God from one perspective while another is seeing him from another. Both of you being right.

Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 7:27pm On Jun 21, 2021
MaxInDHouse:


Sorry your stereotype response is flawed Sir! cheesy
Jesus said himself and his father are one the same way he said himself, his father and his numerous disciples will become one [b]just as he and his father are one! John 17:22

Therefore those people misunderstood Jesus just as many of those who even believe him misunderstood him! John 6:66

Just quote or cite one verse where Jesus said [b]"i am God" or "i am the father" period! cheesy
If the people misunderstood Jesus why did he not correct them, atleast I showed you some places where Jesus corrected the error of the Jews but yet in this place he even defended it.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:20pm On Jun 21, 2021
livingchrist:
If the people misunderstood Jesus why did he not correct them, atleast I showed you some places where Jesus corrected the error of the Jews but yet in this place he even defended it.

Where did Jesus called himself "God" ?
Throughout the scriptures Jesus claimed "son of God" always addressing God as "father" {John 8:28, 14:28} and God always address Jesus as "son" Matthew 3:17, 17:5

Just quote or cite one verse where God or Jesus addressed each other as "me" smiley

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 8:46am On Jun 22, 2021
MaxInDHouse:


Where did Jesus called himself "God" ?
Throughout the scriptures Jesus claimed "son of God" always addressing God as "father" {John 8:28, 14:28} and God always address Jesus as "son" Matthew 3:17, 17:5

Just quote or cite one verse where God or Jesus addressed each other as "me" smiley
Father- son is a relationship.

There is a relationship between the trinity, the first person of the holy trinity is addressed as God the father, the second person as the son and also the word , and the third person as the spirit, Jesus address the first person as my father and the third as my spirit, the father address the second person as my son or my word and the third person as my spirit.

So, Jesus being called the son of God is due to his relationship with the father especially his earthly relationship.

Jesus does not need to say he is God literally, his works, authority, teachings proved he is God.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:15am On Jun 22, 2021
livingchrist:
Father- son is a relationship.

There is a relationship between the trinity, the first person of the holy trinity is addressed as God the father, the second person as the son and also the word , and the third person as the spirit, Jesus address the first person as my father and the third as my spirit, the father address the second person as my son or my word and the third person as my spirit.

So, Jesus being called the son of God is due to his relationship with the father especially his earthly relationship.

Jesus does not need to say he is God literally, his works, authority, teachings proved he is God.

Please quote or cite the verse where this is mentioned! wink
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 10:06am On Jun 22, 2021
MaxInDHouse:


Please quote or cite the verse where this is mentioned! wink
they are implicit not explicit teaching in the bible.

For your information, explicit teachings are teachings that are gotten verbatim from the bible while the implicit ones are deductive.

For example

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Only persons can share same name,
The father was mentioned first, the son was mentioned secondly and the the Holy Ghost third.
Since they have one name then the father, the son and the spirit are persons.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:22am On Jun 22, 2021
livingchrist:
they are implicit not explicit teaching in the bible.
For your information, explicit teachings are teachings that are gotten verbatim from the bible while the implicit ones are deductive.
For example
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Only persons can share same name,
The father was mentioned first, the son was mentioned secondly and the the Holy Ghost third.
Since they have one name then the father, the son and the spirit are persons.

"Name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost" not "God the Father, God the son God the Holy Ghost"

So it's not tenable Sir! smiley
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 10:25am On Jun 22, 2021
MaxInDHouse:


"Name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost" not "God the Father, God the son God the Holy Ghost"

So it's not tenable Sir! smiley
it still Carries same sense, all three has one name meaning they are all equally one God.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:31am On Jun 22, 2021
livingchrist:

it still Carries same sense, all three has one name meaning they are all equally one God.
Please where is this written in the Bible:

"God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost" smiley
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 1:56pm On Jun 22, 2021
Myer:


Great.
I think you need to understand the concept of perspectives more before you draw such conclusions.
Two opposing views could actually be right depending on the perspective.

I actually was addressing the issue of Trinity and not Angels which explains the verses I quoted.

I also think you need to learn to unbox God even from a biblical perspective. This was the error of the Pharisees and Jews. They also concluded that God could never go out of what the Law and Prophets taught them. Hence they ended up not accepting Jesus as even the Son of God but even went as far as crucifying their Lord.

God is God because he's Omni-everything.

So it's very possible you're seeing God from one perspective while another is seeing him from another. Both of you being right.


Firstly, The God you explained above seems a confused God, and that's what an atheist/unbeliever with no knowledge of God should see but not a believer.


Secondly, That bold above, is the primer step to the journey of unbelieving world.

I will leave you with a simple quote (sadly the quote originated even from an unbeliever).

A text, whether scripture or secular cannot claim to be of divine utterance if its subject to several meaning, interpretations and explanations.

Even man, honor and stay by his word. Subjecting God's word to our imagination its a contention on the divine inspiration of his word.


Lastly, to help you in your reference to God going out of what the Law and Prophets taught. There is no single scriptures for that. No single verse support that assertion. The Law and the prophets are all Jesus and the Apostles taught and taught from.

Glad hearing from you once again.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 2:17pm On Jun 22, 2021
Myer:


Great.
I think you need to understand the concept of perspectives more before you draw such conclusions.
Two opposing views could actually be right depending on the perspective.

I actually was addressing the issue of Trinity and not Angels which explains the verses I quoted.

I also think you need to learn to unbox God even from a biblical perspective. This was the error of the Pharisees and Jews. They also concluded that God could never go out of what the Law and Prophets taught them. Hence they ended up not accepting Jesus as even the Son of God but even went as far as crucifying their Lord.

God is God because he's Omni-everything.

So it's very possible you're seeing God from one perspective while another is seeing him from another. Both of you being right.

Key Element of a Text: THE TEXT, THE AUTHOR, THE READER

The second issue here is seeing your attached pix, is that you think the reader is the one who determine the meaning of a word. This is the foundation of even fake news and false representation today in the secular work.

Even in your pix, you know the number there can only has one meaning and you will need the author, the writer to tell you his intent (whether its 6 or 9), he cant mean both.

Hence, In interpretation, we have three character or entity. 1, The reader, 2. the Author, 3. the text

Who should determine the meaning of a text?

A. The reader?
B. the author?
C. Or the text itself.


The moment you fail this in any text, you will subject the text to a different meaning.

The Author owns the Interpretation of the Text not the Reader
The owner of the text should be the one who can explain and determine the meaning of what he wrote. The reader and the text cannot be the determinant. This is the reason a text cannot carry dual interpretation, except the author is not allowed to speak,



In Bible interpretation, the same must hold. The foundation of false interpretation is what you wrote up there by subjecting God's word to individual revelation or imagination.

Your duty as a bible student is to[i] always seek to find the intent of the author and see through his heart what he intend to say.[/i] This is a very hard word today because you are talking about having to travel down thousand of years to sit and the authors feet and understand his intent. This is where we have the work of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the common denominator in all these. He was during the authors time and still today, hence we will rely on him to help our heart know what was truly unveiled to the author.

When you seek to know a new meaning from the spirit, you will end up in your own imagination. This is the case of many interpretation today.


Hence, our duty is to repeat same thing Peter taught in his book, same thing John, Paul, Moses, James etc in their books not finding diverse meaning and claiming it is God.

If the audience of Jesus never had or agreed to dual interpretation of his teaching when they sat at his feet, If what it taught them are what they all received, how come today we want to claim diverse interpretation in the name of God cannot be boxed.

In summary, When interpreting a text, until we arrive at the authors intent, the work of study is yet to be completed.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 4:48pm On Jun 22, 2021
MaxInDHouse:

Please where is this written in the Bible:

"God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost" smiley

where was it written that God created maxInDhouse?
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:23pm On Jun 22, 2021
I never told you God created MaxInDHouse nah! cheesy

You're the one insisting that people should believe in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, that's why i'm asking you where it's written in the book (Bible) smiley

livingchrist:
where was it written that God created maxInDhouse?

1 Like

Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 5:39pm On Jun 22, 2021
MaxInDHouse:
I never told you God created MaxInDHouse nah! cheesy

You're the one insisting that people should believe in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, that's why i'm asking you where it's written in the book (Bible) smiley

And I never told you whether it was written or not written in the bible.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:24pm On Jun 22, 2021
Then it's not to be taken seriously since the Bible never said so!
What the Bible said about personalities:
To gain everlasting life, we need to know TWO PERSONS "God and His son Jesus Christ!" John 17:3
Stephen looked into the heavens before his death and saw TWO PERSONS God and Jesus Christ! Act 7:56 smiley

livingchrist:
And I never told you whether it was written or not written in the bible.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 8:43pm On Jun 22, 2021
MaxInDHouse:
Then it's not to be taken seriously since the Bible never said so!
What the Bible said about personalities:
To gain everlasting life, we need to know TWO PERSONS "God and His son Jesus Christ!" John 17:3
Stephen looked into the heavens before his death and saw TWO PERSONS God and Jesus Christ! Act 7:56 smiley

you mean mathew 28 vs 19 is not to be taken seriously?
By the way where was it written that Steven saw two persons?
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:06pm On Jun 22, 2021
livingchrist:

you mean mathew 28 vs 19 is not to be taken seriously?
You misinterpreted Matthew 28:19 it has nothing to do with your TRINITY, so your god is not to be taken seriously since it's not found in the Bible!

By the way where was it written that Steven saw two persons?
Stephen saw two persons @ Act 7:56

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. wink

1 Like

Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by Myer(m): 10:54pm On Jun 22, 2021
hupernikao:



Firstly, The God you explained above seems a confused God, and that's what an atheist/unbeliever with no knowledge of God should see but not a believer.


Secondly, That bold above, is the primer step to the journey of unbelieving world.

I will leave you with a simple quote (sadly the quote originated even from an unbeliever).



Even man, honor and stay by his word. Subjecting God's word to our imagination its a contention on the divine inspiration of his word.


Lastly, to help you in your reference to God going out of what the Law and Prophets taught. There is no single scriptures for that. No single verse support that assertion. The Law and the prophets are all Jesus and the Apostles taught and taught from.

Glad hearing from you once again.
Same here bro.
It's usually a matter of interest to me when anyone says there's no difference between the old and the new covenant teachings.

To be clear, by your explanation, because Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Laws and Prophets, it means nothing changed?

If I may ask, what then is the significance of the Jesus? Why did God send his son just to continue to maintain the status quo?

Before you answer I would point you to Matthew 5:38-44. Where Jesus himself referred to the Laws and Prophets and further gives the corresponding new laws.

An eye for an eye... Exodus 21:24-25. The Laws

Do not resist an evil doer rather turn the other cheek
Matthew 5:38-39- Jesus.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by livingchrist: 6:00am On Jun 23, 2021
MaxInDHouse:

You misinterpreted Matthew 28:19 it has nothing to do with your TRINITY, so your god is not to be taken seriously since it's not found in the Bible!


Stephen saw two persons @ Act 7:56

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. wink
you have still not shown me where it was written that Steven saw two persons so you cannot br taken seriously. EOD
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:15am On Jun 23, 2021
No wahala! cheesy

livingchrist:
you have still not shown me where it was written that Steven saw two persons so you cannot br taken seriously. EOD
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 10:27am On Jun 24, 2021
Myer:

Same here bro.
It's usually a matter of interest to me when anyone says there's no difference between the old and the new covenant teachings.

Good.
Exactly, no difference. God's plan communicated to Abel is same to Abraham, Moses.... fulfilled in Jesus. Same covenant. he isnt a confused God. The sovereignty of God is in his ability of working through the frailty and evil of men to still accomplish all he set at heart from the beginning in all ages, times and events through his prophets without changes.


To be clear, by your explanation, because Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Laws and Prophets, it means nothing changed?

Exactly. What Moses taught is what Jesus taught. Same plan of God fulfilled in Christ.


If I may ask, what then is the significance of the Jesus? Why did God send his son just to continue to maintain the status quo?

Jesus wasnt sent to change God's plan communicated to the elders of old. That plan of old is the one who give evidence of his coming, hence they cant be contradictory. Give evidence means to witness, to give testimony of. If Moses is to testify of Christ, then Moses words are taken from Christ words. Same words.

Hence the reason Jesus came remain the same reason from the beginning: The salvation of Man. This is the same message Abel preached, Abraham received, Moses and all the prophets witnessed. Fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

They were all Christ prophets, hence couldn't have spoken differently.

Jesus said all Moses wrote was about God's love.

Love God, Love your Neighbor is Jesus summary of Moses writings. He called it the great, first, the summary of all commandment.
That means when Moses is read this is the arrival point. If you dont see this when reading Moses, then you arent seeing what Jesus saw in the Law of Moses.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 10:30am On Jun 24, 2021
Myer:


It's usually a matter of interest to me when anyone says there's no difference between the old and the new covenant teachings.

Before you answer I would point you to Matthew 5:38-44. Where Jesus himself referred to the Laws and Prophets and further gives the corresponding new laws.

An eye for an eye... Exodus 21:24-25. The Laws

Do not resist an evil doer rather turn the other cheek
Matthew 5:38-39- Jesus.

Bro, you seems to be reading this teaching in silos. It is a teaching hence you must read from the beginning of the points and read the end. A teaching has a focus, when you pick just a line from it and give it your own meaning without considering surrounding texts, you will get it wrong.

Reading the beginning of Mathew 5 teaching you pointed to (thats vs 17) and reading the ending part (verse 43-48) should set the pace of your explanation. Love.



The teaching of the section of Matt 5 you quoted started from verse 1 but for the sake of space, i will pick it from verse 17 (please read 1-16).

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


The word abolish is from the word kataloo, it means to overthrow, to leave behind.
The word fulfil is from the word plero, it means to make full, to cause to abound, it is used for completing a phase or a process. It is not used for ending a cause but to come to a full circle, abound.


Let me give you a simple quote here that explain this.

Mat 4:14
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

You will see such statement consistently in the scriptures. It doesnt mean it ends the prophecy. it simply means, bringing the prophecy to past, ie a full circle, it means the prophecy now abound, that is, not fail. That fulfilment, implies it doesnt fail but abound in fullness.



Now, observe Jesus already told you he didnt come to abolish the law. This set the pace of every thing you will read afterwards in Matthew 5 teaching. Dont read in silos.


If you now observe, he started referencing the Law even some were based on assumptions, then he corrected them (the hearer).

I will summarise here.

Matt 5: 21-25 speaks about not murdering and forgiveness
Matt 5: 27-32 speaks about avoiding adultery and strong defence to prevent divorce on flimsy ground
Matt 5: 33-37 speaks about not lying to people, to always speak the truth

Matt 5: 38-42 speaks about tolerance and perseverance


Notice the concluding part.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Jesus summarized all he is teaching into one thing: LOVE. Why?

This is consistent with his teaching on the great (the summation) commandment. Jesus taught that the summary of all Moses wrote is Love.

Matt 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt l[b]ove thy neighbour[/b] as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


1. Love God
2. Love your neighbor.


The word Great here means, the summation.

The moment you see Moses writing beyond this, that means you arent seeing what Jesus saw. Hence, every other thing you read must align to this.


This means, Jesus conclusion on Moses Law was Love. That is the motive. This is still what holds in God's kingdom today. From the days of Abel (a keeper of sheep), till today, God's love is his message.


Infact Moses never wrote that we should hate or kill our enemy. No where did that occur in his writing. It was a rumor (Jesus said, ...You have heard...), not Moses wrote.

Hence all Jesus was doing in Matthew 5 is to correct all misconception about Moses teaching and law.

I would have continue but these days many are afraid to read long post. But like i said, reread that teaching again by firstly understanding his conclusion. It was a systematic teaching with flow of taught not versely sermon.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by hupernikao: 10:35am On Jun 24, 2021
Myer:


It's usually a matter of interest to me when anyone says there's no difference between the old and the new covenant teachings.

Before you answer I would point you to Matthew 5:38-44. Where Jesus himself referred to the Laws and Prophets and further gives the corresponding new laws.

An eye for an eye... Exodus 21:24-25. The Laws

Do not resist an evil doer rather turn the other cheek
Matthew 5:38-39- Jesus.

Bro, you seems to be reading this teaching in silos. It is a teaching hence you must read from the beginning of the points and read the end. A teaching has a focus, when you pick just a line from it and give it your own meaning without considering surrounding texts, you will get it wrong.

Reading the beginning of Mathew 5 teaching you pointed to (thats vs 17) and reading the ending part (verse 43-48) should set the pace of your explanation. Love.



The teaching of the section of Matt 5 you quoted started from verse 1 but for the sake of space, i will pick it from verse 17 (please read 1-16).

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


The word abolish is from the word kataloo, it means to overthrow, to leave behind.
The word fulfil is from the word plero, it means to make full, to cause to abound, it is used for completing a phase or a process. It is not used for ending a cause but to come to a full circle, abound.


Let me give you a simple quote here that explain this.

Mat 4:14
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

You will see such statement consistently in the scriptures. It doesnt mean it ends the prophecy. it simply means, bringing the prophecy to past, ie a full circle, it means the prophecy now abound, that is, not fail. That fulfilment, implies it doesnt fail but abound in fullness.



Now, observe Jesus already told you he didnt come to abolish the law. This set the pace of every thing you will read afterwards in Matthew 5 teaching. Dont read in silos.


If you now observe, he started referencing the Law even some were based on assumptions, then he corrected them (the hearer).

I will summarize here.

Matt 5: 21-25 speaks about not murdering and forgiveness
Matt 5: 27-32 speaks about avoiding adultery and strong defence to prevent divorce on flimsy ground
Matt 5: 33-37 speaks about not lying to people, to always speak the truth

Matt 5: 38-42 speaks about tolerance and perseverance


Notice the concluding part.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Jesus summarized all he is teaching into one thing: LOVE. Why?

This is consistent with his teaching on the great (the summation) commandment. Jesus taught that the summary of all Moses wrote is Love.

Matt 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt l[b]ove thy neighbour[/b] as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


1. Love God
2. Love your neighbor.


The word Great here means, the summation.

The moment you see Moses writing beyond this, that means you arent seeing what Jesus saw. Hence, every other thing you read must align to this.


This means, Jesus conclusion on Moses Law was Love. That is the motive. This is still what holds in God's kingdom today. From the days of Abel (a keeper of sheep), till today, God's love is his message.


Infact Moses never wrote that we should hate or kill our enemy. No where did that occur in his writing. It was a rumor (Jesus said, ...You have heard...), not Moses wrote.

Hence all Jesus was doing in Matthew 5 is to correct all misconception about Moses teaching and law.

I would have continue but these days many are afraid to read long post. But like i said, reread that teaching again by firstly understanding his conclusion. It was a systematic teaching with flow of taught not versely sermon.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by Keulere29: 3:51pm On Jun 24, 2021
maxindhouse pls am a muslim and want to av a dialogue with u pls dis is my watsapp line 08068278621 or any xtain can add me
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:04pm On Jun 24, 2021
I'm sorry Sir, i have to delete my first account on this forum due to disturbance.
If it's about the knowledge of God please come to my thread entitled "Study the Bible with JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"
May you have PEACE!

Keulere29:

maxindhouse pls am a muslim and want to av a dialogue with u pls dis is my watsapp line 08068278621 or any xtain can add me
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MightySparrow: 5:26pm On Jun 24, 2021
The same old question. Don't mind MaximumSide, JWs opinion is just one of myriad of opinions. JWs claim to know all, it is a lie. There opinion is not scripturally logical. Though, they want to force down your throat. Read the Bible yourself and other materials, make your own decision.
Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:40pm On Jun 24, 2021
MightySparrow:
The same old question. Don't mind MaximumSide, JWs opinion is just one of myriad of opinions. JWs claim to know all, it is a lie. There opinion is not scripturally logical. Though, they want to force down your throat. Read the Bible yourself and other materials, make your own decision.

Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know them"

Doesn't it shock you how a neutral person picked MaxInDHouse out of all commentators on this forum?

Well it's because i always PRESENT a group they can SEE in their neighbourhood. So they surely know that Max is not lying because the group i presented could be SEEN throughout the earth: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Matthew 5:13-16, 7:16-18

A young lady also did the same thing here on this forum and many others so your criticism against God's people is a total failure! smiley

1 Like

Re: Is Jesus The Same Person As The Father? by Myer(m): 8:51pm On Jun 24, 2021
hupernikao:


Bro, you seems to be reading this teaching in silos. It is a teaching hence you must read from the beginning of the points and read the end. A teaching has a focus, when you pick just a line from it and give it your own meaning without considering surrounding texts, you will get it wrong.

Reading the beginning of Mathew 5 teaching you pointed to (thats vs 17) and reading the ending part (verse 43-48) should set the pace of your explanation. Love.



The teaching of the section of Matt 5 you quoted started from verse 1 but for the sake of space, i will pick it from verse 17 (please read 1-16).

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


The word abolish is from the word kataloo, it means to overthrow, to leave behind.
The word fulfil is from the word plero, it means to make full, to cause to abound, it is used for completing a phase or a process. It is not used for ending a cause but to come to a full circle, abound.


Let me give you a simple quote here that explain this.

Mat 4:14
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

You will see such statement consistently in the scriptures. It doesnt mean it ends the prophecy. it simply means, bringing the prophecy to past, ie a full circle, it means the prophecy now abound, that is, not fail. That fulfilment, implies it doesnt fail but abound in fullness.



Now, observe Jesus already told you he didnt come to abolish the law. This set the pace of every thing you will read afterwards in Matthew 5 teaching. Dont read in silos.


If you now observe, he started referencing the Law even some were based on assumptions, then he corrected them (the hearer).

I will summarize here.

Matt 5: 21-25 speaks about not murdering and forgiveness
Matt 5: 27-32 speaks about avoiding adultery and strong defence to prevent divorce on flimsy ground
Matt 5: 33-37 speaks about not lying to people, to always speak the truth

Matt 5: 38-42 speaks about tolerance and perseverance


Notice the concluding part.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Jesus summarized all he is teaching into one thing: LOVE. Why?

This is consistent with his teaching on the great (the summation) commandment. Jesus taught that the summary of all Moses wrote is Love.

Matt 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt l[b]ove thy neighbour[/b] as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


1. Love God
2. Love your neighbor.


The word Great here means, the summation.

The moment you see Moses writing beyond this, that means you arent seeing what Jesus saw. Hence, every other thing you read must align to this.


This means, Jesus conclusion on Moses Law was Love. That is the motive. This is still what holds in God's kingdom today. From the days of Abel (a keeper of sheep), till today, God's love is his message.


Infact Moses never wrote that we should hate or kill our enemy. No where did that occur in his writing. It was a rumor (Jesus said, ...You have heard...), not Moses wrote.

Hence all Jesus was doing in Matthew 5 is to correct all misconception about Moses teaching and law.

I would have continue but these days many are afraid to read long post. But like i said, reread that teaching again by firstly understanding his conclusion. It was a systematic teaching with flow of taught not versely sermon.

I don't recall saying here that the Laws and Prophets were abolished.
I said there's a difference.
You said there's no difference.

I pointed you to just 2 clear examples of some of the differences.

Other examples include the laws and roles of Levites and High Priests. Were those not abolished?
After the tearing of the veil?

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