Isaiah speaks of ISRAEL as the Suffering Servant

Isaiah 53 is the other chapter that apologists point to as predicting the death of Jesus, but, like the claims for Psalm 22, we’ll see that this also falls flat.

The apologists will point to several phrases in Isaiah 53 (and the last few verses of the preceding chapter) that parallel the crucifixion.

Verse 52:14: “there were many who were appalled at him; his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being.” Some say that this refers to the beatings Jesus received, though his ugly appearance is never mentioned in the New Testament.

Verse 53:3: “He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.” Jesus should have been recognized as the Messiah, but the gospels tell us that his own people rejected him.

On the other hand, “he was despised” doesn’t sound like the charismatic rabbi who preached to thousands of attentive listeners and had a triumphal entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. And “a man of suffering … familiar with pain” might’ve been the life of an ascetic like John the Baptist, but this doesn’t describe Jesus.

Verse 53:7: “he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.” The synoptic gospels agree that Jesus was silent before his accusers (though John 18:34–19:11 doesn’t).

Verse 53:8: in response to the trial and sentencing of Jesus, “who of his generation protested?” Jesus was on his own, and none of his disciples tried to intervene.

Verse 53:9: “He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death.” This is often interpreted to mean that Jesus ought to have been buried with criminals but was actually buried with the rich. This ties in with the burial of Jesus in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.

Finally, from 53:5 to the end of the chapter, almost every verse gives some version of the idea of the suffering servant taking on the burdens of his people—“he was pierced for our transgressions … by his wounds we are healed” (:5), “for the transgression of my people he was punished” (:, “he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors” (:12), and so on.

Taken as this collection of verse fragments, the case looks intriguing, but taken as a whole—that is, letting the chapter speak for itself—the story falls apart.

First, let’s look at some of the verses discarded by the apologists.

Verse 52:15: “so will many nations be amazed at him and kings will shut their mouths because of him.”

The nations will be amazed and the kings speechless? Nope, not only was Jesus not internationally famous during his lifetime, history records nothing of his life outside the gospels. True, we have evidence of his followers from historians such as Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius, but it is curious that we have nothing about the works of Jesus himself from prolific contemporary authors such as Philo of Alexandria, Seneca, and Pliny the Elder. Apparently he wasn’t as famous as imagined prophecy would have him be.

Verse 53:10: “he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.” This is a nice thought—Jesus endures great trials but then, like Job, he is rewarded with children, prosperity, and long life. As Proverbs says, “Grandchildren are the crown of old men.”

Too bad this isn’t how the gospel story plays out.

Verse 53:11: “my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.” Let’s revisit this suffering servant thing. Jesus, a person of the Trinity and equal to God the Father, is now God’s servant?

Note that “messiah” simply means “anointed one” and that the Tanach, OT, is fairly liberal with the title messiah. Kings and high priests were anointed as messiahs. Heck, Cyrus the Great of Persia was even a messiah (see Isaiah 45:1). But surely no Christian can accept the logic, “Well, David was a messiah, and he was a servant of God; why not Jesus as well?” Jesus was certainly not in the same category as David.

And here’s the big one: “Therefore I will give him a portion among the great [or many] and he will divide the spoils with the strong [or numerous]” (verse 53:12). Like a warrior who gets a share of the spoils of the battle, the servant will be richly rewarded. This servant is just one among many who gets a portion.

Wait a minute—Jesus has peers? He’s one among equals, just “one of the great”? What kind of nonsense is this? Again, this bears no resemblance to the Jesus of the gospels.

This all makes more sense if the “he” of this chapter is seen as �Israel�, not Jesus.

In the section of Isaiah from Chapter 40 onwards, a servant is mentioned nineteen times, in the Servant Songs.

Isaiah 41:8 reads "But you, O Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,"

Isaiah 44:1 reads "But now listen, O Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen".

Isaiah 44:21 reads "Remember these things, O Jacob, for you are my servant, O Israel. I have made you, you are my servant; O Israel, I will not forget you."

Isaiah 45:4 reads "For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honour, though you do not acknowledge me."

In fact over a half of the "servant" verses clearly speak of the nation Israel, or the Jewish people.

Isaiah 53 is another failed prophecy. The point of any crucifixion story would be the so-called “resurrection, ” which is not present in this chapter.

When people want to lie they do so with a multitude of words so that the gullible reader is lost

ROFLMAO

Jashub:
When people want to lie they do so with a multitude of words so that the gullible reader is lost

Have you said something?

Kobojunkie:
ROFLMAO

What's your counter?

sonmvayina:


Have you said something?

Since you replied, I've said something

Israel can generally be seen in three contexts, depending on how it is used in the Holy Bible :

1. There is the nation of Israel - descendants of Abraham - who are a picture of:
2. The Israel of GOD - all whom the Lord GOD has saved since the foundation of the world to the end of the age (Dry Bones of Ezekiel 37 and those referred to in Jeremiah 31:33-34 under the new covenant), AND there is
3). Israel (formerly Jacob, the supplanter after whom the nation is called), who as many other Biblical persons - is a picture / symbolic of the Lord Jesus, the CHRIST! Just like the physical nation is named after the patriarch, the spiritual nation / kingdom is clothed by and named after the King of Kings - the Lord JESUS.

"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." - Gen. 32: 28

"The Hebrew word that is used in this verse is ‘sa-ri-ta.’ It is a past-tense verb that comes from the root word ‘Sar.’ Sar is ‘a prince’ or ‘leader,’ but as a verb, such as in this verse, it is related to the main characteristic associated with leadership: fighting. In the verse above, ‘sa-ri-ta’ relates to the biblical verb that means “to fight” or even better: ‘to wrestle.’ In a way, it connotes taking the action of a prince, leader or hero — giving a fight!"
---------

"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God" - Hebrews 10:7 (also Psalm 40:7-8 )

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." - Isaiah 53:5

xproducer:
Israel can generally be seen in three contexts, depending on how it is used in the Holy Bible :

1. There is the nation of Israel - descendants of Abraham - who are a picture of:
2. The Israel of GOD - all whom the Lord GOD has saved since the foundation of the world to the end of the age (Dry Bones of Ezekiel 37 and those referred to in Jeremiah 31:33-34 under the new covenant), AND there is
3). Israel (formerly Jacob, the supplanter after whom the nation is called), who as many other Biblical persons - is a picture / symbolic of the Lord Jesus, the CHRIST! Just like the physical nation is named after the patriarch, the spiritual nation / kingdom is clothed by and named after the King of Kings - the Lord JESUS.

"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." - Gen. 32: 28

"The Hebrew word that is used in this verse is ‘sa-ri-ta.’ It is a past-tense verb that comes from the root word ‘Sar.’ Sar is ‘a prince’ or ‘leader,’ but as a verb, such as in this verse, it is related to the main characteristic associated with leadership: fighting. In the verse above, ‘sa-ri-ta’ relates to the biblical verb that means “to fight” or even better: ‘to wrestle.’ In a way, it connotes taking the action of a prince, leader or hero — giving a fight!"
---------

"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God" - Hebrews 10:7 (also Psalm 40:7-8 )

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." - Isaiah 53:5

The Hebrew doesn't say the servant takes away sin. It says the servant suffered FROM the sins of the nations. Wicked people often hurt other people, and that's exactly what led up to the genocide of the holocaust. They had no voice as they were herded into cattle cars and exterminated by the thousands, because no one was listening until it became a problem that crept into their own back yard. The US is guilty of ignoring the problem until Pearl Harbor was attacked.

Jashub:
When people want to lie they do so with a multitude of words so that the gullible reader is lost

He does not know that the real Isreal is Jesus

Bishopkingsley:


He does not know that the real Isreal is Jesus

Hehe hehe......my ear don full today...



Ignorance and illiteracy is our biggest problem.

Bishopkingsley:


He does not know that the real Isreal is Jesus

Isiah 53
Immediately following this promise of reward for the Jews’ suffering (53:10-12), chapter 54 clearly speaks of the redemption which awaits the Jewish people. This point is acknowledged by all Christian commentaries.

AGAIN I AM TELLING YOU ITS ALL ABOUT REDEMPTION

I just “happened” to be using a Biblical Hebrew dictionary and NOTHING in xtian “bibles” matches the word meanings of the original Hebrew of Isaiah 53.

ISAIAH 53: REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT THE SUFFERING SERVANT

THE TEXT: ISAIAH 52:13-53:12

13. Behold, My servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high.

14. According as many were appalled at you–so marred was his appearance unlike that of a man, and his form unlike that of the sons of men.

15. So shall he startle many nations, kings shall shut their mouths because of him; for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they perceive.

Who would have believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry land; he had no form nor comeliness that we should look upon him, nor appearance that we should delight in him.
He was despised, and rejected of men [e-shim: “men of high status”], a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; but we considered him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded as a result of our transgressions, he was crushed as a result of our iniquities. The chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wounds we were healed.
All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has visited upon him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb; and opened not his mouth.
From dominion and judgment he was taken away, and his life’s history who is able to relate? For he was cut off out of the land of the living; as a result of the transgression of my people he has been afflicted.
And his grave was set with the wicked, and with the rich in his deaths; although he had done no violence, neither was there any deceit in his mouth.
And it pleased the Lord to crush him–He made [him] sick. If he would offer himself as a guilt-offering, he shall see seed, he shall prolong days. And the purpose of the Lord will prosper by his hand.
From the labor of his soul he shall see; he shall be satisfied. With his knowledge, the righteous one, my servant, shall cause many to be just. And their iniquities he shall bear.
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he had poured out his soul to death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Herein we concentrate on showing why Isaiah 53 does not refer to Jesus. In countering Christian claims concerning the Suffering Servant passage it is really sidestepping the issue to discuss if it refers to the coming Messiah or national Israel. Significant though it is to establish this identification the conversation with Christianity is really about their claims concerning Jesus.

In developing the Jesus myth several traditions developed among distinct groups of followers of what was eventually called Christianity. Various strains of tradition were brought together in forming the New Testament. They were not uniform in their message as each told the Jesus story from the perspective of its own community needs. Isaiah’s Suffering Servant played a decisive role in forming the Jesus myth among certain Christian groups. It provided an outline to guide them in describing what they imagined Jesus’ ministry to have been. There is no doubt that the New Testament authors had the suffering servant in mind in developing their respective works. But this does not prove Jesus is the servant. In the traditions coming down to them concerning Jesus they did not fully eliminate the contradictions between the description of the servant and the description of Jesus. As a result, we are still able to get a glimpse of why Jesus is not the servant from their very own writings.

“Behold My Servant”

My servant https://sites.google.com/site/jewsforjudaismcanada/resources-info/faqs-on-christianity/isaiah-53-who-is-the-servant

Isaiah speaks of ISRAEL as the Suffering Servant

Isaiah 53 is the other chapter that apologists point to as predicting the death of Jesus, but, like the claims for Psalm 22, we’ll see that this also falls flat.

The apologists will point to several phrases in Isaiah 53 (and the last few verses of the preceding chapter) that parallel the crucifixion.

Verse 52:14: “there were many who were appalled at him; his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being.” Some say that this refers to the beatings Jesus received, though his ugly appearance is never mentioned in the New Testament.

Verse 53:3: “He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.” Jesus should have been recognized as the Messiah, but the gospels tell us that his own people rejected him.

On the other hand, “he was despised” doesn’t sound like the charismatic rabbi who preached to thousands of attentive listeners and had a triumphal entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. And “a man of suffering … familiar with pain” might’ve been the life of an ascetic like John the Baptist, but this doesn’t describe Jesus.

Verse 53:7: “he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.” The synoptic gospels agree that Jesus was silent before his accusers (though John 18:34–19:11 doesn’t).

Verse 53:8: in response to the trial and sentencing of Jesus, “who of his generation protested?” Jesus was on his own, and none of his disciples tried to intervene.

Verse 53:9: “He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death.” This is often interpreted to mean that Jesus ought to have been buried with criminals but was actually buried with the rich. This ties in with the burial of Jesus in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.

Finally, from 53:5 to the end of the chapter, almost every verse gives some version of the idea of the suffering servant taking on the burdens of his people—“he was pierced for our transgressions … by his wounds we are healed” (:5), “for the transgression of my people he was punished” (:, “he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors” (:12), and so on.

Taken as this collection of verse fragments, the case looks intriguing, but taken as a whole—that is, letting the chapter speak for itself—the story falls apart.

First, let’s look at some of the verses discarded by the apologists.

Verse 52:15: “so will many nations be amazed at him and kings will shut their mouths because of him.”

The nations will be amazed and the kings speechless? Nope, not only was Jesus not internationally famous during his lifetime, history records nothing of his life outside the gospels. True, we have evidence of his followers from historians such as Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius, but it is curious that we have nothing about the works of Jesus himself from prolific contemporary authors such as Philo of Alexandria, Seneca, and Pliny the Elder. Apparently he wasn’t as famous as imagined prophecy would have him be.

Verse 53:10: “he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.” This is a nice thought—Jesus endures great trials but then, like Job, he is rewarded with children, prosperity, and long life. As Proverbs says, “Grandchildren are the crown of old men.”

Too bad this isn’t how the gospel story plays out.

Verse 53:11: “my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.” Let’s revisit this suffering servant thing. Jesus, a person of the Trinity and equal to God the Father, is now God’s servant?

Note that “messiah” simply means “anointed one” and that the Tanach, OT, is fairly liberal with the title messiah. Kings and high priests were anointed as messiahs. Heck, Cyrus the Great of Persia was even a messiah (see Isaiah 45:1). But surely no Christian can accept the logic, “Well, David was a messiah, and he was a servant of God; why not Jesus as well?” Jesus was certainly not in the same category as David.

And here’s the big one: “Therefore I will give him a portion among the great [or many] and he will divide the spoils with the strong [or numerous]” (verse 53:12). Like a warrior who gets a share of the spoils of the battle, the servant will be richly rewarded. This servant is just one among many who gets a portion.

Wait a minute—Jesus has peers? He’s one among equals, just “one of the great”? What kind of nonsense is this? Again, this bears no resemblance to the Jesus of the gospels.

This all makes more sense if the “he” of this chapter is seen as �Israel�, not Jesus.

In the section of Isaiah from Chapter 40 onwards, a servant is mentioned nineteen times, in the Servant Songs.

Isaiah 41:8 reads "But you, O Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,"

Isaiah 44:1 reads "But now listen, O Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen".

Isaiah 44:21 reads "Remember these things, O Jacob, for you are my servant, O Israel. I have made you, you are my servant; O Israel, I will not forget you."

Isaiah 45:4 reads "For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honour, though you do not acknowledge me."

In fact over a half of the "servant" verses clearly speak of the nation Israel, or the Jewish people.

Isaiah 53 is another failed prophecy. The point of any crucifixion story would be the so-called “resurrection, ” which is not present in this chapter.

Michael547...go through the his thread.

That’s why jews rejected the rome created character that was birted in 6BC

Some Christian missionaries claim, especially in online videos, that there is a conspiracy to hide the truth from you.

They assert, “There is a chapter in the Tanach [Jewish scriptures] that used to be read in synagogues, but later, the rabbis decided to take it out of the Haftarah [weekly prophetic readings] ‘to avoid confusion’... and today it is considered ‘The Forbidden Chapter,’ hidden from Jews.”

The chapter that missionaries say the rabbis do not want you to read is Isaiah 53. Most Christians believe this chapter describes the messiah [Jesus] dying for our sins.

This easily debunked claim[1] is a ploy to get people to read “The Forbidden Chapter” out of context and consequently accept Jesus. However, when read in context, Isaiah 53 is not speaking about anyone dying “for” our sins. Isaiah describes the Jewish people who suffered “from” the violence perpetrated against them by the nations of the world.

Furthermore, concerning a conspiracy, the missionaries are either intentionally misleading people or are ignorant of the history of the public reading of the prophets.

There are numerous problems with their conspiracy theory:

1. No rabbinic edicts exist that prohibit Jews from reading any portion of the Jewish Bible. On the contrary, the Jewish Bible, including the Book of Isaiah, is accessible to anyone who wants to read it.

2. The weekly prophetic readings, as we know them, were instituted in the second century BCE when the Greek King Antiochus forbade Jews from reading from the Torah [Five Books of Moses]. Since Antiochus did not forbid reading from the Prophets, the sages instituted the weekly public reading of a portion of the Prophets that shared a theme corresponding to the outlawed Torah reading. In this way, the weekly Torah portion would not be forgotten.
3. The sages used only a small portion of the Books of the Prophets to accomplish their immediate goal. The omission of the remainder of the prophetic writings was not intended to hide their content; to the contrary, they were available to anyone who wanted to read them.

4. If the rabbis had conspired to hide prophetic passages that Christians claim to refer to Jesus, they would not have included Isaiah 9:6 as part of the reading for Yitro, as is the custom of many Jewish congregations. Although Christians misinterpret this passage to prove that Jesus is divine, our sages knew that when read in context, Jews would understand that Isaiah 9:6 refers to the righteous King Hezekiah. Similarly, the sages did not “hide” other Torah passages that Christians claim refer to Jesus.

As mentioned above, specific portions of the Books of the Prophets were chosen to correspond to the yearly Torah reading cycle. These portions were divided into different categories: the Torah portion, holidays, the three weeks leading to the commemoration of the destruction of the Temple on the Ninth of Av, and the subsequent seven weeks of consolation and comfort. Although during these weeks of comfort select portions of consolation are read from Isaiah, the message in Isaiah 53, and most of the Book of Isaiah, were not included because they do not specifically address consolation.

5. Lastly, some scholars point out that the Dead Sea Scrolls contain a parchment known as 4Q176. This parchment is also referred to as 4QTanhumi [Tanhumi means comfort] and lists similar chapters from Isaiah read as consolation and comfort for the destruction of the Temple. Interestingly, this parchment does not include Isaiah 53. Since the Dead Sea Scrolls are associated with non-rabbinic sects, this refutes the claim that there was a “rabbinical conspiracy” to hide Isaiah 53 from the public.
If there is a conspiracy, it is by missionaries. They hide the plain and obvious meaning of Isaiah 53 by reading it out of context and mistranslating crucial words to fit Jesus into the chapter.

As mentioned above, to understand the true meaning of Isaiah 53 it must be read in context.

Although Isaiah 53 speaks about a “suffering servant of God,” anyone who reads Isaiah from the beginning knows that “Israel” is repeatedly referred to as God’s servant. Two examples: “Israel is my Servant” (Isaiah 41:, and “For you, Israel, are My servant” (Isaiah 44:21).

It is common in Tanach [Jewish Scriptures] to refer to the nation of Israel as a single individual. For example, it says, “And the people gathered as one man” (Nehemiah 8:1). In a revealing passage, “You are My witnesses, says the Lord, and My servant whom I have chosen” (Isaiah 43:10), the subject Israel is referred to first in the plural and then in the singular.

So, about whom and what is Isaiah 53 speaking?

Starting in Isaiah 52, the prophet describes the reaction of the nations of the world when they witness[2] the future and ultimate messianic redemption of the Jewish people.

Since the nations viewed the Jewish people scornfully and considered them rejected by God and deserving of Divine suffering, they will be shocked and dumbfounded[3] when they witness God’s unexpected and glorious redemption of the Jewish people.

At this point, the nations and their leaders will be left wondering and conclude that the Jewish people did not suffer because God rejected them, as the nations mistakenly thought; instead, it was because they persecuted the Jewish people beyond what they may have deserved.[4]

This is the meaning of the passage, “he [Israel] was wounded from our [the nations] transgression and bruised from our [the nations’] iniquities” (Isaiah 53:5). Israel suffered from the mistreatment of the nations.

In English translations of this chapter, Christians mistranslate the prefix [מ] as “for” rather than “from.” This manipulates the text to sound as if the servant will suffer for the sins of the Jewish people. Fortunately, some Christian translations, such as the New Oxford Annotated Bible, have acknowledged and corrected this mistake.

The idea that the Jewish people suffered from or because of the nations’ misdeeds is substantiated in the passage, “For the transgress of my [the nation’s] people they [למו–lamow, i.e., the Jewish people] were stricken” (Isaiah 53:. The word [למו] is biblical Hebrew and is a plural word as in, “a statute that He gave [למו] to them” (Psalms 99:7). Missionaries incorrectly translated this word as “he” in Isaiah 53:7 to make it sound as if “he was stricken” and therefore speaking about a single individual, i.e., Jesus.

Furthermore, Christian missionaries incorrectly change the role of the messiah from a physical human redeemer from oppression and exile to a spiritual [divine] savior from sin.

Although all Jewish commentators believe that the straightforward identification of the servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel,[5] some, on an allegorical level, identify the servant as the messiah. They do so because, as a member of the Jewish people, the messiah can bear the responsibility to alleviate a portion of the punishment on behalf of the rest of the nation.[6]

A similar example of this concept is found in Numbers 4:19-20, where the children of Kehat bear the responsibility of carrying the Ark, at considerable risk to themselves, on behalf of the rest of the nation, so no one else would die. Amazingly, just before Isaiah 53, Israel is referred to as “bearers of the vessels of the Lord” (Isaiah 52:11).

In contrast to Christian belief, no Jewish commentary claims that the messiah will die for our sins or that we need to believe in, or even know about him, to benefit from his suffering. Even without our knowledge, the messiah’s suffering, as well as the suffering of other righteous Jews, can alleviate some portion of the nation’s suffering.

It is also noteworthy that under the influence of paganism, the early Christians also transformed the messiah into a deity. The Christian beliefs that the messiah dies for our sins and is divine are foreign to Judaism and not based on the Tanach.

I have attempted to present a brief overview of Isaiah 53 and how missionaries distort the original text to fit Jesus into the picture.[7] This overview also demonstrates the danger of reading passages or a chapter out of context.[8]

As King Solomon wisely stated, “The first to present his argument sounds correct, until someone cross-examines him” (Proverbs 18:17).

So Israel bear the sin of the nations?
You are a joke man.


Surely you must know better than Daniel

Daniel 9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.


And you know more than Isaiah

Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.



Israel never bore her own sins.

Isaiah 53 is about the messiah who is a righteous man not Israel.

Steep:
So Israel bear the sin of the nations?
You are a joke man.


Surely you must know better than Daniel

Daniel 9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.


And you know more than Isaiah

Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.



Israel never bore her own sins.

Isaiah 53 is about the messiah who is a righteous man not Israel.

YOU are reading a mistranslation
read the correct translation to understand what Isaiah was saying..

it is about a suffering servant, there is no death or resurrection or accession...
Isaiah already told you seven times prior to chapter53 that the servant is Israel...

why the fuss?

22jumpstreet1:

YOU are reading a mistranslation
read the correct translation to understand what Isaiah was saying..

The Messiah is the one referred to as Israel in that chapter, no Israelite can take away his own sin nor another man's sin {Psalms 49:7-9} only the blood of the perfect sinless man can take away mankind's sin just as it was a perfect man that brought sin and death upon all mankind! 1Corinthians 15:45

Sonmvayina, why did you hide using another moniker instead of your usual account?

MaxInDHouse:


The Messiah is the one referred to as Israel in that chapter, no Israelite can take away his own sin nor another man's sin {Psalms 49:7-9} only the blood of the perfect sinless man can take away mankind's sin just as it was a perfect man that brought sin and death upon all mankind! 1Corinthians 15:45

Sonmvayina, why did you hide using another moniker instead of your usual account?

it is not a messianic prophesy...max
it was written to assure the Israelites in captivity in Babylon that God has not left them...

they are the suffering servant

read my post on top...


i am using both.....anything wrong?

Jashub:
When people want to lie they do so with a multitude of words so that the gullible reader is lost

You don talk am finish.

Steep:
So Israel bear the sin of the nations?
You are a joke man.

Tell this mad people o

Jashub:
Since you replied, I've said something

hahahaha

22jumpstreet1:

it is not a messianic prophesy...max
it was written to assure the Israelites in captivity in Babylon that God has not left them...
they are the suffering servant
read my post on top...
i am using both.....anything wrong?

Isaiah has died before the Israelites were taken to Babylon o!

22jumpstreet1:


YOU are reading a mistranslation
read the correct translation to understand what Isaiah was saying..

it is about a suffering servant, there is no death or resurrection or accession...
Isaiah already told you seven times prior to chapter53 that the servant is Israel...

why the fuss?

Isaiah 53 is not Israel, Israel didn't suffer for others sin but for her own sin. Read again

You are right in the sense that the person spoken about their is not the hebrew messiah the christians call "Jesus". I will explain with verses from the law later. But that doesn't change the fact that a hebrew man the christians call "Jesus" exists. Isaiah 53 is talking about a person not a group as in Isreal. Isreal in ancient ppl's tongue is Isi-Ra-Ele: the first son/sun/light/creation of the Most High. This is the son of the Most High the christians call "Jesus". I will show you from the law who this person in Isaiah 53 is and why he is not Isreal or the christian "Jesus"

Steep:

Isaiah 53 is not Israel, Israel didn't suffer for others sin but for her own sin. Read again

he was suffering due to what was being done to him...
read and understand..

Seems some people don't even read the Bible even if they post about it when It was even stated by Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch in acts that this very chapter was talking about jesus

From the beginning to the end no solid backing just mere speculation

Maynman:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_songs

There is no valid evidence even the poems testify of jesus