kingxsamz:


Wow, so not "all men will hear the gospel"?
What happened to "the violent taketh it by force"? Why are they closing the churches, why didn't they use prayers to win them over? Like how Moses was able to free the people of Israelites?
Besides, I mentioned Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Will the Chidren in those countries now go to hell because their government didn't want the gospel preached to them? Haba!

I wish your commentary is bourne out of the desire to learn.

Rebuke:


To go and wreck it abi? Do yhu think he hasn't been given enough chance to prove his diligence?

Well, if yhu are so touched and concerned for the sacked pastor, kindly employ him to run yhur business, that is, if yhu even have any

Meanwhile, over 17,000 pastors are still employed and doing well. Do yhu still have anything to say?

That's the point we just want you all to accept that your church is a business that's all.

That's why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is still the best.

denitro:
That's why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is still the best.

Lies!
Your churches are all the same...some are only better at "taming" their followers than others so as to continue to hide the truth which is that they are all nothing but businesa establishments.

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame but not a surprise that a senior pastor of winner's chapel doesn't know what it mean to bear fruits in the Kingdom sense of the phrase, how much more those who they lead?

Even John the baptist of the Law and the prophets knew what it meant to bear fruits. He said to the Pharisees:

Luke 3:8-9 (KJV)

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So the fruits in question are the good fruits (proof) of true repentance, in other words, evidence to show that one has truly repented, hence it's if one doesn't have such evidence or the good fruits (proof) of true repentance that the axe would be laid to the root of that tree to bring it down and it would be cast into the fire, which is an illustration of eternal damnation.

But what are these good fruits one needs to bear so as not to suffer such a fate?

Luke 3:10-14 (KJV)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So according to John the Baptist, it has to do with the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

This aligned with Christ's parable of the sower where the seed which is the Word of God is sown into people's heart, and it's when they keep the Word that they are said to have borne fruits.

Luke 8:11 (KJV)

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 (KJV)

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

So as you can see, bearing fruits had nothing to do with growth of church membership but the spiritual growth of an individual, which is evidenced by the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

Hence one can still be having strong church membership growth and yet not be bearing fruits according to what it actually means to bear fruits, because the person is a worker of iniquity and not keeping God's Word.

That's how the axe was yet laid to the roots of the trees of those many anointed ministers and Christians who worked of iniquity Jesus spoke about, despite that their church membership would have grown tremendously because of the signs and wonders that followed them, because to bear fruits means keep the Word of God and that they didn't do.

God bless.

Please read and understand the angle He came from....
If there is something I know since When I was a young till now is the exponential growth of Lfc.So ,if the Church over a year is stagnant something is wrong....
The new ones that started newly come and see multitude in less than a year....My friend was shocked and asked Wetin Winners dey do sef....We all laughed but it's The truth

kingxsamz:


All men?
That's laughable because I can walk 10 minutes in Lagos and count 30 churches.
So who are the people your pastor is buiding 10 thousand churches for? The Christian doctrine says "everyone must spread the gospel", no matter the circumstances. So why aren't you guys going to Afghanistan, Pakistan Iraq, South Korea and Iran in numbers, trying to "win souls"? Abi those ones don't deserve to 'know God'?
Anyways, it still doesn't change the fact that church is a business.

Same reason dangote or other top businessmen all over the world avoids going to these countries. It's all pure Biz✓

obonujoker:
Instead if sacking, they should have been transfered to another branch

To do what?....

Kobojunkie:
You tell me does God contradict Jesus Christ since you felt there a need to bring in accounts of a third party to validate Jesus Christ's own declaration to all His followers.

Are Jesus Christ's own Words not the Words of the very same God?

I asked a question b4 urs.
Answer mine and I'll answer you

Sammy07:

I asked a question b4 urs.
Answer mine and I'll answer you

ok...so in a nutshell, God told Peter, and Paul, that the world He had in mind, when He sent them out to preach His Gospel to the world included the Gentile world.

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

Ignorance to the things of the spirit.

The last time you went to church service and you dropped #50 in the offering box, did anyone call you back or chastise you?

Living Faith Church uses envelope for offering and the purpose is to prevent whatever you have brought as offering from being seen by anyone around you but God.

Too much ignorance.

Kobojunkie:
ok...so in a nutshell, God told Peter, and Paul, that the world He had in mind, when He sent them out to preach His Gospel to the world included the Gentile world.

You've been defeated bro.
Accept in peace

Alright.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7QFNQGKbe4

daygee12:

Y cant oyedepo go to those inner villages and use up to 1 year to win souls to

Bishop Oyedepo built his first church when he was 16 in a village he was posted to after taking a part time teaching job as a youngster. He was posted to assist someone who was on maternity leave. He said to his dismay there was no church there even catholic so he began door to door evangelism after getting an interpreter. Before leaving, they erected a mud church. On his departure after 52 days of been in that village, he was gifted a lamp and the eldest man in the community presented it and prayed for him that the light he had brought to them would reach the world. He handed the church to the missionary church closest to the location.
Even livigg faith headquarters in Otta that is budding now was formerly a bushy area

"church growth" is come to Jesus ...... Not "come to my church"

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame but not a surprise that a senior pastor of winner's chapel doesn't know what it mean to bear fruits in the Kingdom sense of the phrase, how much more those who they lead?

Even John the baptist of the Law and the prophets knew what it meant to bear fruits. He said to the Pharisees:

Luke 3:8-9 (KJV)

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So the fruits in question are the good fruits (proof) of true repentance, in other words, evidence to show that one has truly repented, hence it's if one doesn't have such evidence or the good fruits (proof) of true repentance that the axe would be laid to the root of that tree to bring it down and it would be cast into the fire, which is an illustration of eternal damnation.

But what are these good fruits one needs to bear so as not to suffer such a fate?

Luke 3:10-14 (KJV)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So according to John the Baptist, it has to do with the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

This aligned with Christ's parable of the sower where the seed which is the Word of God is sown into people's heart, and it's when they keep the Word that they are said to have borne fruits.

Luke 8:11 (KJV)

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 (KJV)

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

So as you can see, bearing fruits had nothing to do with growth of church membership but the spiritual growth of an individual, which is evidenced by the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

Hence one can still be having strong church membership growth and yet not be bearing fruits according to what it actually means to bear fruits, because the person is a worker of iniquity and not keeping God's Word.

That's how the axe was yet laid to the roots of the trees of those many anointed ministers and Christians who worked of iniquity Jesus spoke about, despite that their church membership would have grown tremendously because of the signs and wonders that followed them, because to bear fruits means keep the Word of God and that they didn't do.

God bless.

How would all these things happen when the resident pastor is not in his station?

Sammy07:

You've been defeated bro.
Accept in peace

I am sorry, I don't follow... what have I been defeated by or of?

Kobojunkie:
You are given a command and simply asked to obey it, much the same way you were asked to obey every other comandments/rules given you by Jesus Christ, the one who is God's Law in the Kingdom of God.

It is as simple as that.

Your claim that God gave His only begotten son to reconcile many Sons back to Him is not what Jesus Christ told you but way your Mogs fed you.

Your claim that preaching of the gospel is to bring many souls into glory is again not what Jesus Christ told you but the doctrine and traditions you adhere to.

I asked u a simple question u fail to answer.

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members
guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

It's about the money nothing else

Tobechuckwu:

I asked u a simple question u fail to answer.

What particular question did I fail to answer?

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame but not a surprise that a senior pastor of winner's chapel doesn't know what it mean to bear fruits in the Kingdom sense of the phrase, how much more those who they lead?

Even John the baptist of the Law and the prophets knew what it meant to bear fruits. He said to the Pharisees:

Luke 3:8-9 (KJV)

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So the fruits in question are the good fruits (proof) of true repentance, in other words, evidence to show that one has truly repented, hence it's if one doesn't have such evidence or the good fruits (proof) of true repentance that the axe would be laid to the root of that tree to bring it down and it would be cast into the fire, which is an illustration of eternal damnation.

But what are these good fruits one needs to bear so as not to suffer such a fate?

Luke 3:10-14 (KJV)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So according to John the Baptist, it has to do with the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

This aligned with Christ's parable of the sower where the seed which is the Word of God is sown into people's heart, and it's when they keep the Word that they are said to have borne fruits.

Luke 8:11 (KJV)

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Luke 8:15 (KJV)

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

So as you can see, bearing fruits had nothing to do with growth of church membership but the spiritual growth of an individual, which is evidenced by the works of righteousness and obedience of God's Word.

Hence one can still be having strong church membership growth and yet not be bearing fruits according to what it actually means to bear fruits, because the person is a worker of iniquity and not keeping God's Word.

That's how the axe was yet laid to the roots of the trees of those many anointed ministers and Christians who worked of iniquity Jesus spoke about, despite that their church membership would have grown tremendously because of the signs and wonders that followed them, because to bear fruits means keep the Word of God and that they didn't do.

God bless.

Knowledge they say puffs up and I would advise that you shouldn't be quick to judge others based on your knowledge of the scripture. To be quick to say this Pastor doesn't know what it means to bear fruit is really wrong in every sense. You should have understood the context from which he spoke rather than tackle him on a different perspective which does not relate to what he said.

In the context of the Bible verses you quote, there is the fruit of repentance but this does not in anyway say there are no other fruits. There is bearing of fruits, the fruit of the spirit and several others. To bear fruits can also mean witnessing and winning souls for Christ.

Kindly read John Chapter 15 completely. During the course of reading this, please take note of verses 2 and 16.

Context is key when studying the Bible.

Also winning souls still require fellowship. The Disciples are very good examples of these. They still encouraged fellowship even after winning souls.

Shalom!!

Sanchez01:
I know how pentecostal churches function quite well. If you have issues with the church, IT WILL BE SPELT IN YOUR LETTER OF DISMISSAL but nowhere in that letter did the church state that the pastors left their primary places of assignments. Plus, full time pastors rely solely on the monthly earning from the church. IF THE PASTORS WERE ASSIGNED THEN IT MEANS THEY WERE ON THE CHURCH'S PAYROLL.

The letter below took them up on GROWTH INDEX and not negligence. I have seen these things up close TOO MANY TIMES. Yes, pastors have KPIs, as surprising as it is and it is what is used in determining their performance. Interestingly, RETURNS is the summary of their KPIs. A sign your church is doing well is the number of MONTHLY RETURNS and sign that it is not is the LOW RETURNS. I have seen pastors queried, redeployed and even demoted FOR NOT GROWING THEIR CHURCH.

All these explanations are just excuses on behalf of the modus operandi of Pentecostalism in Nigeria. The model is American and it is a disgusting one.

I choose to disagree with you on this. You may have had your experience (s) with other pentecostal churches but that shouldn't be a model to access all others. From my experience in LFC, I understand that the church is on a massive evangelism cum church growth drive since 2015 till date. There's also a very aggressive church planting agenda all around the world. I also know that being a living faith pastor is quite demanding. Therefore is is important to access the pastors' performance on the threshold of the mandate given to them. Now as it is, the mandate is to bring about the numerical growth of the church. Many pastors and some individuals have been commended and openly honored by Bishop Oyedepo for their exploits on the harvest field.

The analysis of higher end above is an isolated case though it may be common but it usually not to ALL of those sacked . If he read the letter well "for poor performance and inability to meet up to expenditure of there accommodation, salary and church maintenance, where worship centers are rented" . There is no society where we do not have black sheep those that were praised some of them might be doing worst things that is very unchristian. Do they call them to order ,ask for where they are having difficulty in their respective centers? We Christian's take joy in our member who backslide but the cultists will be finding ways for their member to reunite with them ,in a street where there are Catholics, Methodists , Anglicans , CAC, Gospel faith, MFM ,White garments, and faithfuls of other Pentecostal churches, muslims and atheists the number of souls you will win their are small except y you are reconverting them . The sack is not helping matter at all ,it either repopulate kingdom of satan or teach other pastors to do what is against the kingdom of God.

Nauttyprof:
in the context of the Bible verses you quote, there is the fruit of repentance but this does not in anyway say there are no other fruits. There is bearing of fruits, the fruits of the spirit and several others. To bear fruits can also mean witnessing and winning souls for Christ.

Kindly read John Chapter 15 completely. During the course of reading this, please take note of verses 2 and 16.

Context is key when studying the Bible.

Also winning souls still require fellowship. The Disciples are very good examples of these. They still encouraged fellowship even after winning souls.
Shalom!!

I am glad you agree that context is key to reading the Bible. So in the context that is John 15 vs 1 - 11, what is the fruit that Jesus Christ says we are to bear as those who abide in Jesus Christ ?

What is the essence of the mentioned fruits to our existence as followers of Jesus Christ?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ neither in your churches nor did He command them. How can Jesus Christ be in that which He declared was against Him - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14

how much do understand Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 to be according to your believe of what you typed?

Jesus Christ never condemn the gardening of true children of His but the impostors of God's words and works.

really Christianity and church is failed and is still failing humanity.

I suspect this narrator framed up this story to defend his church.

It's obvious the KPI is more people, more fund and not about spirituality of members. Bragging about growing number to over 100, spending 500k on band etc yet u pay d pastor 40k a month. How will a family man survive on 40k in this Buhari time?

SEGLIZ:
how much do understand Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 to be according to your believe of what you typed?

Jesus Christ never condemn the gardening of true children of His but the impostors of God's words and works.

really Christianity and church is failed and is still failing humanity.

Jesus Christ condemns the teaching of the doctrines and traditions of men as lies, an abomination to God in Matthew 15 vs 1 -14, that is in a nutshell, my belief.

Now do tell me of this "gardening of the true children of His"?

Your churches never were of Jesus Christ to begin with. The Church that belongs to Jesus Christ is the one built by Jesus Christ. All others are just dens of thieves, false prophets and teachers.

HigherEd:


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2484752211668635&id=444807728996437

Daft post.

So winners church sacked a pastor that was called by God??

remsonik:
This is a nice thing. I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail. If you know you can't pastor a church don't take the job cos it's a call and you have to be really dedicated to it. It's not something you can do as side hustle or for play.

There is something wrong which we have to carefully reflect on if the world would take uss seriously :

Have we thought about the SYSTEM that birthed such "pastors" in this "controversy" ?

Reflect on that..... We need to sit down and talk and reflect on.

Secondly, ordinary corona virus that RAVAGED the world , none (I mean no one) saw it coming ....... Think deeply about that.


PS: for the second, we can't deny how fatal that is.... Shebi were still reading of how daday oyedepo is stating how he had warned nigerans in 2015 about dis govt. That goes to already confirm how it is referred that a MOG sees something ahead.

Now with that truth, and whatever it potends, reflect on how disastrous not seeing corona by not even a single person is.

Let's just leave argument with unbelivers and reflect.

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

your point will be reasonable if the said pastor doesn't collect their salary.

kingxsamz:

All these one na lame excuses nobody is ready to read. Christians will say "where two or three are gathered, the lord is there" but na still their pastors dey vex say people no plenty for church, even though there are at least 3 churches in every street. There are more Christians in this country and they're still looking for more. They say they want to win souls, but the souls they want to win have already been won by another church.
So basically, what they're doing is trying to win members from other churches. And more members guarantees massive weekly income.
Na who do advert pass they usually sell, that's why their daddy GO is angry and sacking pastors anyhow because the pastors no get sweet mouth to cajole people to come and buy the market they're selling.
Anybody that says this isn't about tithe and offering is just lying to himself, so ya'll keep crying.

Did you even read what he wrote?
How much do you have to give to a Man of God?
Sorry to say but you're lost and your opinion does not count.

Karlzy01:

Did you even read what he wrote?
How much do you have to give to a Man of God?
Sorry to say but you're lost and your opinion does not count.

No be salary your Mogs dey collect for there? Abeg, open your eyes well!.

The man is trying to be clever by half. Someone was sacked because his church is running at loss financially, you are telling the story of another who was sacked for negligence of duty.