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If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? - Religion - Nairaland

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If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 6:25pm On Sep 04, 2021
Can sb please clear my doubts?

If Jesus is God, who made the pronouncement, “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" when John baptized him in the Jordan?

If Jesus is God, why does he called himself ‘father..why have you forsaken me’ during his execution?

If Jesus is God, how come the Bible says he'd sit on God's right hand? Is he not God himself?

If Jesus is God as some people use John 1.1 to explain, how do you explain John 17:3 written by the same John?

If Jesus is God, why did the Devil make reference to God while tempting him saying “if you are truly the son of God...hurl yourself down..for God will not...”? Note that the devil has lived in heaven before and know the heaven citizens.


Any answer with biblical proofs?

Thank you.

7 Likes

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by CXLVII: 6:34pm On Sep 04, 2021
Doubt if their is anybody on Earth that can answer this questions.

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 6:36pm On Sep 04, 2021
CXLVII:
Doubt if their is anybody on Earth that can answer this questions.

There is.

Wait for it.
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by psychalade: 7:23pm On Sep 04, 2021
Following the prompting of someone I also found out from the dictionary that eve was the second wife of Adam, his first wife is named "LILITH"
The bible is full of SHIT grin
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Kobojunkie: 7:29pm On Sep 04, 2021
psychalade:
Following the prompting of someone I also found out from the dictionary that eve was the second wife of Adam, his first wife is named "LILITH"
The bible is full of SHIT grin
Lilith is not mentioned in the Bible... undecided

I suggest you stop following the promptings of others and instead pick up the book to read for yourself. undecided

4 Likes

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Staci06: 11:02pm On Sep 04, 2021
Jesus is not God
He is the SON of God

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Ayo081(m): 11:28pm On Sep 04, 2021
Brother, it is the power in the trinity.

I don't know how to explain without allowing the bible give the exposition. So I won't become a liar.

Please read carefully the below quoted and pray for understanding.


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was with God in the beginning.


3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:1‭-‬5 NIV



22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

23 I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water;

25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,

26 before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth.

27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,

29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

30 Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,

31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

Proverbs 8:22‭-‬31 NIV




16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

John 3:16‭-‬19 NIV


It's just like asking how come all who are led by the spirit are sons of God.

Please pay attention to the bellow carefully.


14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Romans 8:14‭-‬15 NIV


Now see


16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Romans 8:16‭-‬17 NIV


Now Christ said


27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and the Father are one.”

John 10:27‭-‬30 NIV

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Nobody: 1:19am On Sep 05, 2021
Ayo081:
Brother, it is the power in the trinity.

I don't know how to explain without allowing the bible give the exposition. So I won't become a liar.

Please read carefully the below quoted and pray for understanding.


Proverbs 8:22‭-‬31, the whole Chapter actually, is merely talking about "wisdom", not Jesus.

To the one who started this post - he asks valid questions.

There is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit... true, they all exist.
But they are not the same.
Regarding God and Jesus... when Jesus claims to be "One" with His Father God, He is talking Spiritually and in Authority.
But Jesus did not pray to Himself while on Earth.
Nor when He ascended to Heaven did He sit at His own right hand.

Let me also ask all of you to please consider this:

John 5:21 (NKJV): For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
John 5:26 (NKJV): For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself...

In addition to Spiritually giving Life, John 5:26 also means that Jesus can create matter from nothing at all... something which no Angel can do, but only God and Jesus.

Now, at the very beginning - before the first atom, molecule, planet, or being - there was God alone.
For Jesus did not create God, just as a son cannot create his own parent, nor can a son come before their own parent.
God, therefore, MUST HAVE created Jesus... at the very beginning, before anything else (even an atom) was made.

In addition, God taught Jesus everything, gave Him every ability, and also gave His Son all authority over everything that would be made.

In essence, Jesus was just like God, for even though the Father is greater than Jesus (John 14:28), God gave Jesus every God-like trait.

(Therefore, it is no affront to God when Thomas refers to Jesus as "my Lord and my God"... because to us puny human beings, Jesus can be considered as One with His Father, or as God is, even though Jesus Himself is not God.)

To note: Jesus was not an Angel, just as God is not an Angel... for Angels were created by Both sometime afterward.

Now, on to Creation.
We know this is also true (John 1:3): nothing was made without Jesus also being present to make it.
That includes the first atom, the first molecule, the first planet, and the first beings... all of which God and Jesus created.
And to do that, Jesus also had to be given the ability to create matter from nothing at all, just like God can.

Consider our own body temples... a mass of atoms and molecules that would otherwise have no Life unless God and Jesus also put our own Spirit within us.
Thus, God and Jesus also make the visible (the body) and the invisible (the Spirit of Life in flesh that allows the atoms and molecules to become a living being).
Can we do that ? No.
Can Angels do that ? No.
Only God and Jesus can.

Why can't we simply believe that Jesus is just like God His Father in all ways - Spirit, form, and authority - but is Himself not God, but only God's Son ?
Why not ? It's the Truth.
That's because God, the Greater One, made it that way !

And you can all find the Scriptures that support this... without saying explicity that "God created Jesus".

I know the arguers will argue.

But if we actually think about what is presented to us in Scripture, ALL Verses included, then we can, in Truth, draw no other conclusion (nor can anyone disprove this using un-manipulated Scripture).

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Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 1:27am On Sep 05, 2021
Ayo081:
Brother, it is the power in the trinity.

I don't know how to explain without allowing the bible give the exposition. So I won't become a liar.

Please read carefully the below quoted and pray for understanding.







It's just like asking how come all who are led by the spirit are sons of God.

Please pay attention to the bellow carefully.



Now see



Now Christ said



Can we chat?

Let's discuss John 1:1.

How can sb who is said to be with God be God?

You didn't even answer any of my questions! What power of the trinity? If the trio are God, why are you not bringing in the holy spirit into John 1:1..why are you bringing only two?

For John 3:16, you just said “For God so loved the world...sent HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON..” These are two persons referred here. Even Jesus said the Father was greater than him (John 14:28).

Surprisingly, it is still the same John who wrote this verse.

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Ayo081(m): 1:41am On Sep 05, 2021
awitness41:


Proverbs 8:22‭-‬31, the whole Chapter actually, is merely talking about "wisdom", not Jesus.

To the one who started this post - he asks valid questions.

There is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit... true, they all exist.
But they are not the same.
Regarding God and Jesus... when Jesus claims to be "One" with His Father God, He is talking Spiritually and in Authority.
But Jesus did not pray to Himself while on Earth.
Nor when He ascended to Heaven did He sit at His own right hand.

Let me also ask all of you to please consider this:

John 5:21 (NKJV): For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
John 5:26 (NKJV): For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself...

In addition to Spiritually giving Life, John 5:26 also means that Jesus can create matter from nothing at all... something which no Angel can do, but only God and Jesus.

Now, at the very beginning - before the first atom, molecule, planet, or being - there was God alone.
For Jesus did not create God, just as a son cannot create his own parent, nor can a son come before their own parent.
God, therefore, MUST HAVE created Jesus... at the very beginning, before anything else (even an atom) was made.

In addition, God taught Jesus everything, gave Him every ability, and also gave His Son all authority over everything that would be made.

In essence, Jesus was just like God, for even though the Father is greater than Jesus (John 14:28), God gave Jesus every God-like trait.

(Therefore, it is no affront to God when Thomas refers to Jesus as "my Lord and my God"... because to us puny human beings, Jesus can be considered as One with His Father, or as God is, even though Jesus Himself is not God.)

To note: Jesus was not an Angel, just as God is not an Angel... for Angels were created by Both sometime afterward.

Now, on to Creation.
We know this is also true (John 1:3): nothing was made without Jesus also being present to make it.
That includes the first atom, the first molecule, the first planet, and the first beings... all of which God and Jesus created.
And to do that, Jesus also had to be given the ability to create matter from nothing at all, just like God can.

Consider our own body temples... a mass of atoms and molecules that would otherwise have no Life unless God and Jesus also put our own Spirit within us.
Thus, God and Jesus also make the visible (the body) and the invisible (the Spirit of Life in flesh that allows the atoms and molecules to become a living being).
Can we do that ? No.
Can Angels do that ? No.
Only God and Jesus can.

Why can't we simply believe that Jesus is just like God His Father in all ways - Spirit, form, and authority - but is Himself not God, but only God's Son ?
Why not ? It's the Truth.
That's because God, the Greater One, made it that way !

And you can all find the Scriptures that support this... without saying explicity that "God created Jesus".

I know the arguers will argue.

But if we actually think about what is presented to us in Scripture, ALL Verses included, then we can, in Truth, draw no other conclusion (nor can anyone disprove this using un-manipulated Scripture).

Thank you,

I'll like to know your perspective on below:


34 Blessed are those who listen to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway.

35 [b]For those who find me find life[/b]and receive favor from the Lord.

36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves; all who hate me love death.”

Proverbs 8:34‭-‬36 NIV

PS Note: 35 in the above quoted.
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Ayo081(m): 2:18am On Sep 05, 2021
chatinent:


Can we chat?

You didn't even answer any of my questions! What power of the trinity? If the trio are God, why are you not bringing in the holy spirit into John 1:1..why are you bringing only two?

Thanks to awaitness41, he has done justice to what the words failed me to do earlier (please ignore the verses on proverbs 8 I quoted earlier since we (I and awaitness41) are yet to reach an agreement).

Now you can compare what I posted to his and see if I did or I didn't answer any of your question.

Now to the matter of the Holy Ghost,

Note the person of the Holy Ghost was only mentioned in few bible verses in the old testament. Infact to me, I observed David mentioned the Holy Spirit cc Psalms 51.

This is to tell you that the person of the Holy Spirit wasn't just created after the birth or death of Jesus.

Infact the Holy Spirit was upon Mary the mother of Jesus. cc Luke 1:35,

John was filled with the Holy Spirit. cc Luke 1:15.

Elizabeth the mother of John was filled with the Holy Spirit. cc Luke 1:41.



Now carefully note:


26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Genesis 1:26 NIV


The focus is on "Let us".

Jesus also gave a brief exposition on the person of the Holy Spirit.


7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:

9 about sin, because people do not believe in me;

John 16:7‭-‬9 NIV


The Holy Spirit is not an Angel. He belongs to the Father (Just like Christ belongs to the Father) and all that belongs to the Father belongs to Christ.


12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John 16:12‭-‬15 NIV



26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.


John 15:26‭-‬27 NIV

If this post still doesn't help, there're thousands of books on the person of the Holy Ghost. It won't be a bad idea if you do your own research on the person, functions and operations of the Holy Spirit.
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Nobody: 2:39am On Sep 05, 2021
Ayo081:


Thank you,

I'll like to know your perspective on below:



PS Note: 35 in the above quoted.

I truly believe all of Proverbs 8 was simply referring to "wisdom".
Solomon wrote Proverbs, and being given great wisdsom by God, Solomon was enamored with wisdom.
In fact, several others Proverbs chapters deal with the topic, and Solomon often "personifies" wisdom as a person, such as using "I" or "she".

Of course, many times in the Bible, Verses purposely do have double meanings.
For example, in Matthew 17:
25 And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon?
From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers."
Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free."

Obviously, if we're sons of God, then we'll be "free"... much like the Truth sets us free (from sin).
And if we're free from sin, then surely we'll be taken to Heaven and freed from the penalty of permanent (2nd) death in Hell Fire.

But in the case of Proverbs 8... I truly believe it is only "wisdom" that Solomon was talking about.
I think if you read from Proverbs 1 through 8, this becomes even more clear.

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Gratefulheart1(m): 2:44am On Sep 05, 2021
Reading......

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Karlovych: 4:23am On Sep 05, 2021
embarassed

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Ayo081(m): 4:33am On Sep 05, 2021
awitness41:


I truly believe all of Proverbs 8 was simply referring to "wisdom".
Solomon wrote Proverbs, and being given great wisdsom by God, Solomon was enamored with wisdom.
In fact, several others Proverbs chapters deal with the topic, and Solomon often "personifies" wisdom as a person, such as using "I" or "she".

Of course, many times in the Bible, Verses purposely do have double meanings.
For example, in Matthew 17:
25 And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon?
From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers."
Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free."

Obviously, if we're sons of God, then we'll be "free"... much like the Truth sets us free (from sin).
And if we're free from sin, then surely we'll be taken to Heaven and freed from the penalty of permanent (2nd) death in Hell Fire.

But in the case of Proverbs 8... I truly believe it is only "wisdom" that Solomon was talking about.
I think if you read from Proverbs 1 through 8, this becomes even more clear.

Alright.
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Bishopkingsley(m): 5:24am On Sep 05, 2021
God is all powerful

God has ability to be in heaven and equally be on earth at the same time

God has the power to be every where at the same time

That is why you are confused when he is on earth in body form and

Equally be in heaven speaking

4 Likes

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Bishopkingsley(m): 5:25am On Sep 05, 2021
chatinent:
Can sb please clear my doubts?

If Jesus is God, who made the pronouncement, “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" when John baptized him in the Jordan?

If Jesus is God, why does he called himself ‘father..why have you forsaken me’ during his execution?

If Jesus is God, how come the Bible says he'd sit on God's right hand? Is he not God himself?

If Jesus is God as some people use John 1.1 to explain, how do you explain John 17:3 written by the same John?

If Jesus is God, why did the Devil make reference to God while tempting him saying “if you are truly the son of God...hurl yourself down..for God will not...”? Note that the devil has lived in heaven before and know the heaven citizens.


Any answer with biblical proofs?

Thank you.
God is all powerful

God has ability to be in heaven and equally be on earth at the same time

God has the power to be every where at the same time

That is why you are confused when he is on earth in body form and

Equally be in heaven speaking

4 Likes 2 Shares

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by BassReeves: 6:00am On Sep 05, 2021
chatinent:
Can sb please clear my doubts?
This will be a futile and pointless endeavour to clear your seeming doubts, if you would NOT honestly, frankly, sincerely and truthfully give clear, direct and unequivocal answers to all questions asked you on this post.

The questions to kick off with are:
1. In spite of the given fact that God is beyond definition, please according to the best of your understanding, state what the meaning of what the word, God, is.
2. Please according to the best of your understanding, describe what is the extent of God's capacity, power etc

chatinent:
If Jesus is God, who made the pronouncement, “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" when John baptized him in the Jordan?
The person who made the pronouncement, “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" when John baptized him in the Jordan, was God, the Father.

chatinent:
If Jesus is God, why does He called Himself ‘father..why have you forsaken me’ during his execution?
For your information, ‘father..why have you forsaken me’ sic is incorrectly translated and so is a mistranslation. David said 'lama azabtani' (i.e. why have you forsaken me?) while Jesus said 'lama sabachthani' (i.e sacrificed me for this) as the suffix “thani” means: 'you do this to me' and 'zabach' with a short definition, alludes to slaughter(s) for sacrifice. Jesus' one of His last seven spoken words while hung on the cross dying was 'My God, My God, this is what I died for' or ' ... I am slaughtered for sacrifice'

Here's a brief lowdown about "nashatani" and "sabachthani"

"Nashatani" and "sabachthani" are both Aramaic. "Nashatani" is the Aramaic word for the Hebrew word "azabtani", where in Psalms 22:1, it is correctly translated as the English word "forsaken." however it is worth noting, that, Jesus deliberating DID NOT quote Psalms 22:1 verbatim, blindly or directly but consciously changed or switched language and used the Aramaic "sabachthani", so as to make the distinction from the Aramaic "nashatani"

Now here the interesting part, which is, if Jesus had wanted to say He was forsaken by God, then Jesus would have used "nashatani" and not "sabachthani" so Jesus, called His Father, My God, instead of My Father, simply, because He was paraphrasing the beginning of Psalm 22 (i.e. Psalm 22:1) just like He paraphrased the end of Psalm 22 (i.e Psalm 22:31) too.

Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God

chatinent:
If Jesus is God, how come the Bible says he'd sit on God's right hand? Is he not God himself?
Of course, He is God, and this is the reason why its very important to recognise the fact that God is a Spirit, meaning God is incorporeal
Now, if the most important position of God is His right hand side position, then the only way for humans to physically perceive God in that position with eyes, is by Jesus, and who incidentally has physique that can be seen with eyes

chatinent:
If Jesus is God as some people use John 1.1 to explain, how do you explain John 17:3 written by the same John?
John 1:1
'In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ),
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
'

John 17:3
'Now this is eternal life:
that they may know You, the only true [supreme and sovereign] God,
and [in the same manner know] Jesus [as the] Christ whom You have sent.
'

chatinent, what came first? Please list in ascending order what came first from the following:
chatinent, the person, chatinent, the son, chatinent, the husband or chatinent, the father etc?

Also who is the author of the word(s) typed in the original post of this thread?
What is name of the writer of those words in OP?

chatinent:
If Jesus is God, why did the Devil make reference to God while tempting him saying “if you are truly the son of God...hurl yourself down..for God will not...”? Note that the devil has lived in heaven before and know the heaven citizens.
Matthew 4:5-7
'5Then the devil took Him into the holy city [Jerusalem] and placed Him on the pinnacle (highest point) of the temple.
6And he said [mockingly] to Him,
“If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU [to serve, care for, protect and watch over You]’;
and
‘THEY WILL LIFT YOU UP ON their HANDS, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”
7Jesus said to him,
“On the other hand, it is written and forever remains written,
‘YOU SHALL NOT TEST THE LORD YOUR GOD.’”
'

People give the devil extremely more credit than the devil deserves. There are so many things in heaven that the devil is not privy to. Not knowing that Jesus is God, is one of the things the devil was not aware of and/or doesn't want to admit to

chatinent , please notice in Matthew 4:7 above response, the kindly comeback word of warning Jesus gave the devil, reminding the devil not to try test the Lord his God.

chatinent:
Any answer with biblical proofs?

Thank you.
Deuteronomy 6:4
'“Hear, O Israel!
The LORD is our God, the LORD is one [the only God]!
'

There is one God. Numerically speaking there is one God.

It would be similar to however ways chatinent deems to manifest chatinent, whether in word thought or deeds, there is one chatinent, only chatinent

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Nancy2020(f): 7:24am On Sep 05, 2021
You only ask this question because you limit God you think God is like you that stays only in one place lol

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Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Gratefulheart1(m): 8:20am On Sep 05, 2021
Reading ........
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 12:30pm On Sep 05, 2021
Did you understand yourself at all? Be honest.
BassReeves:
This will be a futile and pointless endeavour to clear your seeming doubts, if you would NOT honestly, frankly, sincerely and truthfully give clear, direct and unequivocal answers to all questions asked you on this post.

The questions to kick off with are:
1. In spite of the given fact that God is beyond definition, please according to the best of your understanding, state what the meaning of what the word, God, is.
2. Please according to the best of your understanding, describe what is the extent of God's capacity, power etc

The person who made the pronouncement, “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" when John baptized him in the Jordan, was God, the Father.

For your information, ‘father..why have you forsaken me’ sic is incorrectly translated and so is a mistranslation. David said 'lama azabtani' (i.e. why have you forsaken me?) while Jesus said 'lama sabachthani' (i.e sacrificed me for this) as the suffix “thani” means: 'you do this to me' and 'zabach' with a short definition, alludes to slaughter(s) for sacrifice. Jesus' one of His last seven spoken words while hung on the cross dying was 'My God, My God, this is what I died for' or ' ... I am slaughtered for sacrifice'

Here's a brief lowdown about "nashatani" and "sabachthani"

"Nashatani" and "sabachthani" are both Aramaic. "Nashatani" is the Aramaic word for the Hebrew word "azabtani", where in Psalms 22:1, it is correctly translated as the English word "forsaken." however it is worth noting, that, Jesus deliberating DID NOT quote Psalms 22:1 verbatim, blindly or directly but consciously changed or switched language and used the Aramaic "sabachthani", so as to make the distinction from the Aramaic "nashatani"

Now here the interesting part, which is, if Jesus had wanted to say He was forsaken by God, then Jesus would have used "nashatani" and not "sabachthani" so Jesus, called His Father, My God, instead of My Father, simply, because He was paraphrasing the beginning of Psalm 22 (i.e. Psalm 22:1) just like He paraphrased the end of Psalm 22 (i.e Psalm 22:31) too.

Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb of God

Of course, He is God, and this is the reason why its very important to recognise the fact that God is a Spirit, meaning God is incorporeal
Now, if the most important position of God is His right hand side position, then the only way for humans to physically perceive God in that position with eyes, is by Jesus, and who incidentally has physique that can be seen with eyes

John 1:1
'In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ),
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
'

John 17:3
'Now this is eternal life:
that they may know You, the only true [supreme and sovereign] God,
and [in the same manner know] Jesus [as the] Christ whom You have sent.
'

chatinent, what came first? Please list in ascending order what came first from the following:
chatinent, the person, chatinent, the son, chatinent, the husband or chatinent, the father etc?

Also who is the author of the word(s) typed in the original post of this thread?
What is name of the writer of those words in OP?

Matthew 4:5-7
'5Then the devil took Him into the holy city [Jerusalem] and placed Him on the pinnacle (highest point) of the temple.
6And he said [mockingly] to Him,
“If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU [to serve, care for, protect and watch over You]’;
and
‘THEY WILL LIFT YOU UP ON their HANDS, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”
7Jesus said to him,
“On the other hand, it is written and forever remains written,
‘YOU SHALL NOT TEST THE LORD YOUR GOD.’”
'

People give the devil extremely more credit than the devil deserves. There are so many things in heaven that the devil is not privy to. Not knowing that Jesus is God, is one of the things the devil was not aware of and/or doesn't want to admit to

chatinent , please notice in Matthew 4:7 above response, the kindly comeback word of warning Jesus gave the devil, reminding the devil not to try test the Lord his God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
'“Hear, O Israel!
The LORD is our God, the LORD is one [the only God]!
'

There is one God. Numerically speaking there is one God.

It would be similar to however ways chatinent deems to manifest chatinent, whether in word thought or deeds, there is one chatinent, only chatinent
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 12:30pm On Sep 05, 2021
No bible backups. Your assertions are null and void.
Bishopkingsley:

God is all powerful

God has ability to be in heaven and equally be on earth at the same time

God has the power to be every where at the same time

That is why you are confused when he is on earth in body form and

Equally be in heaven speaking

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 12:32pm On Sep 05, 2021
Did you understand yourself or are you just trying so hard to defend the incomprehensible dogma?
Gratefulheart1:




Well, son, this is a question that bothers many and also a topic everyone might not perfectly understand, at least while on earth.

The answers to your question, which you might obtain most times would be voluminous, confusing and unconvincing eventually. That is why I would give you this brief illustration to think about.

Some concepts are simple and straight forward in life, while some are not. We can't expect everything to be simple. Same with God. If God is vast and ultimate as he is, then you can't expect every concept about him to be simple or easily understood. Even many physical things about our life, solar system etc are obscure. How much more the spiritual things about a God who made everything.

Imagine this scenario.
You're a son and you have parent. (Although grammatically, you can put 's' after parent to mean two, but in concept, it's just parent)
So, you have a parent. Your mother is your parent, your father is your parent. Both of them are your parent and either of them is your parent.

They're two, yet they're one, because a child is produced by two people. Being two doesn't make either of them lesser of a parent to you. They're just the same. One is same to you exactly as the other.
Your mother is as much parent to you, as much as your father. Your father might be viewed superior by role to your mother, yet at the same time he's still exactly the same and can be said not to be superior to your mother. None of both is a superior parent, but they're both equally parent.

When your father sends you to school is your parent sending you to school. If your mother cooks for you but your dad feels too big to go to kitchen, that doesn't make your mom an inferior parent. No!
They're two but yet they're one.
If your mother plays with you more, doesn't make her less or inferior of a parent than your father. If your mother respects your father doesn't make her less of a parent to you or less of a parent than your father. She's still as equally as a parent, as much as your father.
Your father cannot be a parent without your mother. They're two yet they're one.


This is just a scenario that gives just an idea. If God is Almighty, can't he exhibit Himself in different 'forms' and 'roles' to achieve his plans?
In science fiction movies, we see same person exhibiting in different forms and roles at the same time, yet it's same person. And we see different persons exhibiting as a single person.
In forbidden kingdom, one strand of hair from Monkey King became Jet Li, and was later united back to it's superior self at the end of movie. Same creature exhibited in different forms. Monkey King is the real version and might be viewed superior but he's still Jet Li. Same creature, different roles, different hierarchy, different exhibitions.
If God is spiritual, then don't expect every concept about him to be too basic or physical concepts.
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 12:34pm On Sep 05, 2021
You contradict yourself.

You have clearly showed the holy spirit is not a person. If Jesus was filled with it, how is it a person?
Ayo081:


Thanks to awaitness41, he has done justice to what the words failed me to do earlier (please ignore the verses on proverbs 8 I quoted earlier since we (I and awaitness41) are yet to reach an agreement).

Now you can compare what I posted to his and see if I did or I didn't answer any of your question.

Now to the matter of the Holy Ghost,

Note the person of the Holy Ghost was only mentioned in few bible verses in the old testament. Infact to me, I observed David mentioned the Holy Spirit cc Psalms 51.

This is to tell you that the person of the Holy Spirit wasn't just created after the birth or death of Jesus.

Infact the Holy Spirit was upon Mary the mother of Jesus. cc Luke 1:35,

John was filled with the Holy Spirit. cc Luke 1:15.

Elizabeth the mother of John was filled with the Holy Spirit. cc Luke 1:41.



Now carefully note:



The focus is on "Let us".

Jesus also gave a brief exposition on the person of the Holy Spirit.



The Holy Spirit is not an Angel. He belongs to the Father (Just like Christ belongs to the Father) and all that belongs to the Father belongs to Christ.





If this post still doesn't help, there're thousands of books on the person of the Holy Ghost. It won't be a bad idea if you do your own research on the person, functions and operations of the Holy Spirit.

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by BassReeves: 12:37pm On Sep 05, 2021
chatinent:
Did you understand yourself at all? Be honest.
If to be honest, I am saying, never mind about any of that, as I understand, if you dont.

Now, beloved, please just do the honours of giving your answers to the two following easy, simple, innocent, harmless, straightforward request:

1. In spite of the given fact that God is beyond definition, please according to the best of your understanding, state what the meaning of what the word, God, is.
2. Please according to the best of your understanding, describe what is the extent of God's capacity, power etc
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by chatinent: 12:45pm On Sep 05, 2021
I am available for a chat. Create a new thread.
BassReeves:
If to be honest, I am saying, never mind about any of that, as I understand, if you dont.

Now, beloved, please just do the honours of giving your answers to the two following easy, simple, innocent, harmless, straightforward request:

1. In spite of the given fact that God is beyond definition, please according to the best of your understanding, state what the meaning of what the word, God, is.
2. Please according to the best of your understanding, describe what is the extent of God's capacity, power etc
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by bobestman(m): 12:51pm On Sep 05, 2021
Bishopkingsley:
God is all powerful

God has ability to be in heaven and equally be on earth at the same time

God has the power to be every where at the same time

That is why you are confused when he is on earth in body form and

Equally be in heaven speaking

You are the one confused bro

*The Father made the pronouncement by His spirit that the Messiah is His Son which shows the Father was in heaven
*The Messiah when he ancended sat on the right hand of the Father which shows another difference between them
*The Messiah asked His Father not to forsake him
*The devil called the Messiah Son
*They existed as Father and Mother before they created a Son
*They were dual before they created the son who made them a Trio or Three
The Son was the first thing created and that's why He pertook in other things created
*The son was the one sent to the earth
*The Son said the Father is greater than Him
*The Son said He came to do the will of the Father
*According to Rev 12 the son was caught up to the throne when the devil want to devour him and his Mother who is also our Mother. This is to tell you that their is a Mother in the trio before a son could come. Without a mother and Father you can't have a son ( this is beyond many Christians understanding)
*The Son existed as the word of the Father in heaven before He was made flesh to dwell on earth by the Father's Spirit and save his people. Evéything in heaven is spirit and without flesh they can't function on earth. This is why the Son have to come thru a woman on earth - Incarnation, Reborn, Rebirth
*The Son clearly stated that He don't know when the Father will end the world which shows that their are many things the Father know that He don't know unless the Father tells Him.
*Can one be a father and a son?
The statement that if you see the son, you have seen the Father is a wise saying or Proverb common in Africa. The scriptures was written with a lot of wise sayings and the Messiah taught with it, that's why you don't understand
*Above all, the Son said without the Father He can't do anything.
Truly the Father can be both in heaven and on earth but everything He wanted to do on earth was given to the son with power and authority. The Son was also a Co-Creator. So the Son did everything on earth with the Father's spirit aiding Him. Same way the Apostles got that Spirit before they could go everywhere and do the same thing the Son did. Without the Spirit one can't do anything. It is the force that moves Him. So you are wrong.
The Son is not the Father in Flesh. It's the Spirit of the Father that moves him that made him know all things

Is all these not enought to debunk the errors you teach?
Or you are seeing another son who claims to be the Father and decieving people with false signs and wonders (2Thess 2)?
My friend, this is the truth. You are the one wrong not the guy.
If you like reject it and continue to argue. Have told you the raw truth

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Bishopkingsley(m): 1:17pm On Sep 05, 2021
Gratefulheart1:


That's not his question.



Hmmm, It's not as easy as you've posted especially from the perspective of OP's question. Christian apologists should show more skill and deep logical ability.
The concept of Trinity looks like it's man-made judging by direct biblical grounds. It's like it was people who created that concept while the Bible itself didn't really say so.
If it's as easy as you posted, this question won't keep popping up every time.
For a fellow typical African who's dogmatic or credulous and has a religious mind, this kind of response can go but for a more critical, inquisitive thinker, this isn't a relevant reply.
I see threads like this and everyone jumping to reply without doing enough logical Justice. Christians too should learn to be critical thinkers, not just basic thinkers.

Now to your reply and the question. If it's about God's ability to be in heaven and earth the same time. Then, no one should have any question. Using the Holy Bible as the basis, if Jesus throughout the New Testament clearly stated himself to be the God in heaven exhibiting himself as human, then it's clear enough, nobody would ask questions. Even Zakir Naik won't have any debate as regards that topic.

But this is tricky issue, and the real bone of contention is that even the Holy Bible itself different places portrayed Jesus not to be God, and Jesus many places clearly portrays himself not to be God.
If so, where did Christians get that doctrine that Jesus is God when neither Jesus nor the Bible said so? That is the question.

Yet, at the same time by connecting and deductions different places in the Bible, it could be interpreted to mean Jesus is God, and Jesus indirectly many times implied himself to be God although he didn't directly utter such a statement.

That is the puzzle and where the dots are to be connected.
You can't defend some thing when you didn't pay enough attention to details, logic and the question presented. That's why many African Christian can't debate with White atheists because Whites are highly intelligent.
We Christians should also employ deep logic and intelligence. The God we serve Himself is deepest depth of intelligence.


Jesus identified trinity in this verse below

Now in terms of intelligence using that to explain the things of God God actually forbid it because he want all human to trust in his words

Now you will say how do we know Bible is from God do research how many other persons have ever said they have power to raise themselves up from the dead infact Bible record Jesus rose himself up from the dead

Now look at other a claimed holy book and compare which leader ever rose up from the dead that is how to know the real holy book

Now about intelligence I told you God forbid it we use faith when we deal with God because God said he wants to make the intelligence of this world to become nothing when it comes to him

The truth is that any one that don't believe in God are those God has not called they are not chosen by God so it not about them it about they are not in the will of God every single one God chose are those who accept there is a higher power more than man

Now notice it says name not names
Which shows one God bearing those three names and from his acts we can see how he manifest in three dimensions to do a specific task for man

Matthew 28:19 ►
New International Version
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

New Living Translation
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

English Standard Version
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore having gone, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Janosky: 1:17pm On Sep 05, 2021
awitness41:


Proverbs 8:22‭-‬31, the whole Chapter actually, is merely talking about "wisdom", not Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:24, Jesus is the wisdom of Proverbs 8:22-30.
He was at the Father's side working as "Craftsman".
awitness41:


To the one who started this post - he asks valid questions.

There is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit... true, they all exist.
But they are not the same.
Regarding God and Jesus... when Jesus claims to be "One" with His Father God, He is talking Spiritually and in Authority.
John 5:19, did Jesus have the same authority with his Father?
John 20:17, did Jesus have the same authority with his God & Father?
awitness41:


But Jesus did not pray to Himself while on Earth.
Nor when He ascended to Heaven did He sit at His own right hand.
Why would "God" Jesus be praying to his God?
Why would "God" Jesus obey the command in the spiritual realm "sit at my right hand"?
Is Jesus the God of his Father?
Bros, reason on the scriptures,Revelation 3:12.
awitness41:


Let me also ask all of you to please consider this:

John 5:21 (NKJV): For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
John 5:26 (NKJV): For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself...

In addition to Spiritually giving Life, John 5:26 also means that Jesus can create matter from nothing at all... something which no Angel can do, but only God and Jesus.
John 5:26 (NKJV): For as the Father has life in Himself, so [b]He has granted the Son to have life in Himself...[/b]
Without life granted to the Son, does the son have life?
There is only one Source of life- God his Father.
awitness41:


Now, at the very beginning - before the first atom, molecule, planet, or being - there was God alone.
For Jesus did not create God, just as a son cannot create his own parent, nor can a son come before their own parent.
God, therefore, MUST HAVE created Jesus... at the very beginning, before anything else (even an atom) was made.

In addition, God taught Jesus everything, gave Him every ability, and also gave His Son all authority over everything that would be made.

In essence, Jesus was just like God, for even though the Father is greater than Jesus (John 14:28), God gave Jesus every God-like trait.
(Therefore, it is no affront to God when Thomas refers to Jesus as "my Lord and my God"... because to us puny human beings, Jesus can be considered as One with His Father, or as God is, even though Jesus Himself is not God.)
Bros, you don't believe in the Trinity.
Trinitarian devotees won't listen nor accept this truth at all!

cheesy grin

awitness41:


To note: Jesus was not an Angel, just as God is not an Angel... for Angels were created by Both sometime afterward.
Anyone sent by God is his angel (meaning Messenger,envoy) Matthew 11:10, John the Baptizer is an angel.
John 7:16 Jesus Christ is an angel teaching his Father's doctrine.
awitness41:


Now, on to Creation.
We know this is also true (John 1:3): nothing was made without Jesus also being present to make it.
That includes the first atom, the first molecule, the first planet, and the first beings... all of which God and Jesus created.
And to do that, Jesus also had to be given the ability to create matter from nothing at all, just like God can.

Consider our own body temples... a mass of atoms and molecules that would otherwise have no Life unless God and Jesus also put our own Spirit within us.
Thus, God and Jesus also make the visible (the body) and the invisible (the Spirit of Life in flesh that allows the atoms and molecules to become a living being).
Can we do that ? No.
Can Angels do that ? No.
Only God and Jesus can.

Why can't we simply believe that Jesus is just like God His Father in all ways - Spirit, form, and authority - but is Himself not God, but only God's Son ?
Why not ? It's the Truth.
That's because God, the Greater One, made it that way !

And you can all find the Scriptures that support this... without saying explicity that "God created Jesus".

I know the arguers will argue.

But if we actually think about what is presented to us in Scripture, ALL Verses included, then we can, in Truth, draw no other conclusion (nor can anyone disprove this using un-manipulated Scripture).
Anyone sent by God is a Messenger , envoy angel.
Daniel 10:13, Daniel 12:1 Geneva Bible & Malachi 3:1, (Amplified Bible) ,the work of Trinitarian devotees.


Not debatable.
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Bishopkingsley(m): 1:23pm On Sep 05, 2021
bobestman:


You are the one confused bro

*The Father made the pronouncement by His spirit that the Messiah is His Son which shows the Father was in heaven
*The Messiah when he ancended sat on the right hand of the Father which shows another difference between them
*The Messiah asked His Father not to forsake him
*The devil called the Messiah Son
*They existed as Father and Mother before they created a Son
*They were dual before they created the son who made them a Trio or Three
The Son was the first thing created and that's why He pertook in other things created
*The son was the one sent to the earth
*The Son said the Father is greater than Him
*The Son said He came to do the will of the Father
*According to Rev 12 the son was caught up to the throne when the devil want to devour him and his Mother who is also our Mother. This is to tell you that their is a Mother in the trio before a son could come. Without a mother and Father you can't have a son ( this is beyond many Christians understanding)
*The Son existed as the word of the Father in heaven before He was made flesh to dwell on earth by the Father's Spirit and save his people. Evéything in heaven is spirit and without flesh they can't function on earth. This is why the Son have to come thru a woman on earth - Incarnation, Reborn, Rebirth
*The Son clearly stated that He don't know when the Father will end the world which shows that their are many things the Father know that He don't know unless the Father tells Him.
*Can one be a father and a son?
The statement that if you see the son, you have seen the Father is a wise saying or Proverb common in Africa. The scriptures was written with a lot of wise sayings and the Messiah taught with it, that's why you don't understand
*Above all, the Son said without the Father He can't do anything.
Truly the Father can be both in heaven and on earth but everything He wanted to do on earth was given to the son with power and authority. The Son was also a Co-Creator. So the Son did everything on earth with the Father's spirit aiding Him. Same way the Apostles got that Spirit before they could go everywhere and do the same thing the Son did. Without the Spirit one can't do anything. It is the force that moves Him. So you are wrong.
The Son is not the Father in Flesh. It's the Spirit of the Father that moves him that made him know all things

Is all these not enought to debunk the errors you teach?
Or you are seeing another son who claims to be the Father and decieving people with false signs and wonders (2Thess 2)?
My friend, this is the truth. You are the one wrong not the guy.
If you like reject it and continue to argue. Have told you the raw truth



We already have an issue on the other thread which both of us are dealing on

Do you want us to jump from thread to thread or focus on one place to discuss spiritual matters
Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by Gratefulheart1(m): 1:24pm On Sep 05, 2021
chatinent:
Did you understand yourself or are you just trying so hard to defend the incomprehensible dogma?

Sorry, for interrupting on the thread. I'll delete my post immediately.

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is God, Who Made That Pronouncement When John Baptized Him? by bobestman(m): 1:59pm On Sep 05, 2021
Bishopkingsley:


We already have an issue on the other thread which both of us are dealing on

Do you want us to jump from thread to thread or focus on one place to discuss spiritual matters
No need for that. Accept the truth or keep arguing.

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