Righteousness2:
Let's even leave the Galiee Boat.

The Events playing out on Earth Presently Before our Eyes Just as JESUS Christ said it would, is clear enough for anyone to know and Understand that the Holy Bible is the Word of GOD and that JESUS Christ is the Only means of Salvation.

No one on Earth today has an Excuse for not Believing in JESUS Christ as we are seeing Bible being Fulfilled Live before us.

Listen Folks,
Mary won't Save you,
Buddha won't Save you,
Mohammed won't save you,
Allah won't save you,
Dead saints won't save you,
The new age movement won't save you,
Religion won't save you,
Your works ( good things we do) won't save you

There is Only One Way through which we can be Saved.
There is Only One Name that Saves and One way to Heaven.
That way and Name is JESUS Christ .

If you know your scriptures at all, you will know saints are not dead

Image123:


Faith is the victory that OVERCOMES the world, not sense. The sense realm is pretty much useless in spiritual things. It's the realm satan brought Eve to and that he keeps bringing the children of Eve to, keeps deceiving them to find a better god there.

So basically you added another layer of mystery as an answer to how do we solve a different mystery.

The fact that billions of people attest to Jesus Christ being alive today and have been seen and experienced by them remains a staggering phenomenon by any means though. No one compares.

Billions of people can be wrong, popularity of opinion doesn't equal truth, even you would agree to that. Besides when you say these people saw Jesus today, do you mean they saw him physically or in visions and dreams?

BJanta:


The Bible has no need to be proved true to a true believer by any evidence external to it.The proves it to be true everytime true believers gather to worship the LORD as GOD confirms His word in our midst.Anf it's not believing the Bible through extrabiblical evidence that would give you salvation,it is believing the Gospel when it's preached to you..

You are right. The Christian needs no further arguments to believe.

But a skeptic who doesn’t believe in the Bible could ask for evidences and put up intellectual objections. That is okay for any rational human to do. Even some believers whose faith are shaken at one time or another get encouraged when they have some of these background info. Of course the ultimate convictions lie with God through the Holy Spirit. That is incontestable.

“...and the Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16:14‬ ‭AMPC‬‬


See how Paul approached and reasoned and argued and preached in Acts 17.
He reasoned from the Scriptures with the Jews.
He reasoned from logic and philosophy with the Greeks and the philosophers.

“But when some became more and more stubborn (hardened and unbelieving), discrediting and reviling and speaking evil of the Way [of the Lord] before the congregation, he separated himself from them, taking the disciples with him, and went on holding daily discussions in the lecture room of Tyrannus from about ten o'clock till three.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:9‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

“This continued for two years, so that all the inhabitants of [the province of] Asia, Jews as well as Greeks, heard the Word of the Lord [concerning the attainment through Christ of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God]. And God did unusual and extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, So that handkerchiefs or towels or aprons which had touched his skin were carried away and put upon the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:10-13

“Then Agrippa said to Paul, You think it a small task to make a Christian of me [just offhand to induce me with little ado and persuasion, at very short notice].”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

Nothingserious:


I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. That is a step. Most atheists didn’t even want to agree before now until their revered atheists started teaching them to accept that Jesus Christ of Nazareth existed as described in the Bible and in history but asked them to argue about his supernatural claims.

First off I don't revere anyone nor did someone ask me to argue about Jesus' supernatural claims. I don't appreciate people who when I am having a conversation start attributing other peoples motivations or reasoning to my conversation. You're having a discussion with me, keep your responses to what I say not what someone else said.

So it’s normal for more updated skeptics to agree that Jesus lived. The supernatural claims of Jesus are recorded in the Bible and the gospels were historical books first before being added as part of the Bible. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:3-9 taught about the formula passed down by their tradition on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. History also recorded that there were even some people who performed supernatural actions within Jesus time. That gives credence to the fact that supernatural events can and did happen.

The gospels were never considered historical books, matter of fact their authors are considered anonymous except for Luke, who as you well know was not a disciple so had no first hand knowledge of any of the events especially with regard to Jesus' puported miraculous birth, his purported miraculous works or the claims of his resurrection. By necessity he was merely recording oral retelling which usually acquire narrative additions for effect. The lack of original manuscripts is another puzzling aspect. Here we have claims of a god desirous to spread a good news and yet can't be bother to ensure that the original written words were preserved. Instead we have like in the case of Luke manuscripts that have so many differences.

No historian will give credence to the supernatural claims of historical figures because they understand that in those times it was popular to exaggerate the feats of patrons in order to present them in more favourable light to the audience. Alexander, Julius Caeser and others have miracles attributed to them but we don't believe those so why should we believe the ones in the gospels. Fact remains many of those feats cannot be replicated in any way resembling the purported events, nobody has turned water to wine, nobody has multiplied food, nobody has walked on water. I asked you how you would demonstrate to me that Jesus is alive but you didn't respond.

So na for this boat that f*cking Judas dey sleep when Baba Jesus Christ dey waka untop water?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RaJL8m4FEY

Ohthinktwice:


Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1406273/archaeology-news-sea-of-galilee-boat-discovery-jesus-christ-proves-bible-evg/amp


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GaJv0CFQno

LordReed:


First off I don't revere anyone nor did someone ask me to argue about Jesus' supernatural claims. I don't appreciate people who when I am having a conversation start attributing other peoples motivations or reasoning to my conversation. You're having a discussion with me, keep your responses to what I say not what someone else said.



The gospels were never considered historical books, matter of fact their authors are considered anonymous except for Luke, who as you well know was not a disciple so had no first hand knowledge of any of the events especially with regard to Jesus' puported miraculous birth, his purported miraculous works or the claims of his resurrection. By necessity he was merely recording oral retelling which usually acquire narrative additions for effect. The lack of original manuscripts is another puzzling aspect. Here we have claims of a god desirous to spread a good news and yet can't be bother to ensure that the original written words were preserved. Instead we have like in the case of Luke manuscripts that have so many differences.

No historian will give credence to the supernatural claims of historical figures because they understand that in those times it was popular to exaggerate the feats of patrons in order to present them in more favourable light to the audience. Alexander, Julius Caeser and others have miracles attributed to them but we don't believe those so why should we believe the ones in the gospels. Fact remains many of those feats cannot be replicated in any way resembling the purported events, nobody has turned water to wine, nobody has multiplied food, nobody has walked on water. I asked you how you would demonstrate to me that Jesus is alive but you didn't respond.

Most of the arguments you make here, you read up somewhere. Your objections skills were honed because you read and listened to other skeptics criticizing the Bible and Christianity. So don’t get over-worker because I said some atheists started believing in the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. That knowledge did not come with you from birth. You gained it from your environment and from others. Please admit that. And the part about skeptics not accepting before now but doing a u-turn is also true. You can’t change that actually.

The 4 gospels are historical facts first before being added to the Bible. You don’t have to agree because of your worldview.

The gospel accounts recorded the supernatural feats of Jesus. There is no empirical analysis for testing supernatural phenomena. The disciples of Jesus and other Jews witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ and his ascension. That is how we know he lived, was killed and resurrected.

We also confirm that by our personal experiences and divine revelations. The Holy Spirit in-dwells every Christian as a confirmation that they are God’s. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would come after his ascension physically. And the Holy Spirit did come and is still in operation as at date.
That is not an objective method but you cannot take those experiences from the Christians. Jesus did many miracles back then. God still perform miracles now. So many attest to that.

LordReed:


So basically you added another layer of mystery as an answer to how do we solve a different mystery.

Not a new addition, it's there in the Bible. You meet God on His terms not yours. Weak persons don't normally meet powerful people on their own terms, but on the powerful person's terms. He that comes to God MUST believe.Hebrews 11. You would more likely experience and encounter God by faith, not by reasoning. He says "Only believe".

Billions of people can be wrong, popularity of opinion doesn't equal truth, even you would agree to that. Besides when you say these people saw Jesus today, do you mean they saw him physically or in visions and dreams?

Of course billions can be wrong. But the fact remains it's a staggering number and phenomenon. There is nothing and no one that compares to it. Like the song, i have never seen a man who rose from death like Jesus Christ. There is no other human being that millions(not to mention billions) of people acclaim to be alive and to have seen and experienced in every century, continent and generation either by vision or dream or a personal radical change encounter. It's continously stunning.

Nothingserious:


Most of the arguments you make here, you read up somewhere. Your objections skills were honed because you read and listened to other skeptics criticizing the Bible and Christianity. So don’t get over-worker because I said some atheists started believing in the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. That knowledge did not come with you from birth. You gained it from your environment and from others. Please admit that. And the part about skeptics not accepting before now but doing a u-turn is also true. You can’t change that actually.

If you are of the opinion you've heard everything before then why bother having this conversation? I am not going to waste my time with someone with such an attitude.

LordReed:


First off I don't revere anyone nor did someone ask me to argue about Jesus' supernatural claims. I don't appreciate people who when I am having a conversation start attributing other peoples motivations or reasoning to my conversation. You're having a discussion with me, keep your responses to what I say not what someone else said.



The gospels were never considered historical books, matter of fact their authors are considered anonymous except for Luke, who as you well know was not a disciple so had no first hand knowledge of any of the events especially with regard to Jesus' puported miraculous birth, his purported miraculous works or the claims of his resurrection. By necessity he was merely recording oral retelling which usually acquire narrative additions for effect. The lack of original manuscripts is another puzzling aspect. Here we have claims of a god desirous to spread a good news and yet can't be bother to ensure that the original written words were preserved. Instead we have like in the case of Luke manuscripts that have so many differences.

No historian will give credence to the supernatural claims of historical figures because they understand that in those times it was popular to exaggerate the feats of patrons in order to present them in more favourable light to the audience. Alexander, Julius Caeser and others have miracles attributed to them but we don't believe those so why should we believe the ones in the gospels. Fact remains many of those feats cannot be replicated in any way resembling the purported events, nobody has turned water to wine, nobody has multiplied food, nobody has walked on water. I asked you how you would demonstrate to me that Jesus is alive but you didn't respond.

i think you might learn a thing listening to this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1XJ7DeR5fc

Image123:


Not a new addition, it's there in the Bible. You meet God on His terms not yours. Weak persons don't normally meet powerful people on their own terms, but on the powerful person's terms. He that comes to God MUST believe.Hebrews 11. You would more likely experience and encounter God by faith, not by reasoning. He says "Only believe".

The question remains how do we distinguish between a god operating by faith and what comes naturally? This is the heart of the question.

Of course billions can be wrong. But the fact remains it's a staggering number and phenomenon. There is nothing and no one that compares to it. Like the song, i have never seen a man who rose from death like Jesus Christ. There is no other human being that millions(not to mention billions) of people acclaim to be alive and to have seen and experienced in every century, continent and generation either by vision or dream or a personal radical change encounter. It's continously stunning.

Good, so nobody today has actually seen Jesus physically, they are referring instead to their particular subjective experiences. If you've never seen an animal, plant or being physically how are you able to attribute the term alive to them? Or is the word alive metaphorical?

LordReed:


If you are of the opinion you've heard everything before then why bother having this conversation? I am not going to waste my time with someone with such an attitude.

Lol!

There is no prize for this discussion. Why should I be worried that you decline further comments on it? You weren’t born an atheist. You picked up certain info along the way as you grew up and formed your worldview right?

Did you know about the historical Jesus at birth? Did you know about the intellectual objections you are offering to Christianity and the validity of the Biblical claims?
How did you pick up your defenses against the gospels and their historical qualities? Where did you see the actors you believed existed in history? So why should you get angry that I pointed out a very simple and obvious fact that some atheists advised other atheists to concede that Jesus of Nazareth existed as described in the Bible and argue rather on his divinity claims?

Abeg no vex.

LordReed:


The question remains how do we distinguish between a god operating by faith and what comes naturally? This is the heart of the question.





Good, so nobody today has actually seen Jesus physically, they are referring instead to their particular subjective experiences. If you've never seen an animal, plant or being physically how are you able to attribute the term alive to them? Or is the word alive metaphorical?

Jesus is alive because he lived here in earth, did good works, taught about God and God’s kingdom, performed miracles, revealed God to us, talked about eternal life, heaven, hell and the after-life, taught about souls, spirits, angels, demons, was crucified, died , resurrected, ascended into heaven and was see by many and recorded in history.

He promised us the Holy Spirit who came some weeks after his ascension.

He lives in the hearts of all believers today

LordReed:


The question remains how do we distinguish between a god operating by faith and what comes naturally? This is the heart of the question.

i'm not sure that i got the question clearly. If you are asking if one can receive something supernatural or it is only naturally. God can use the two. Many times, like i have said before, we don't need the supernatural. There are hardly miracles like we describe/pray them in Heaven for instance. Also the Bible accounts clearly show that supernatural displays don't prove more efficient in the long run. God did all sorts of supernatural in the wilderness to allegedly millions of people for about 40years, only two or so finally entered Canaan in the generation. The rest were recorded to have unbelief and hard heart. Same goes for the people around Elijah, Elisha and even Jesus where about just 120 could gather/wait despite His resurrection.
That being said, most of what we need don't require complicated or miraculous answers but normal every day answers that we have just scratched the surface. The potential and resources God invested in man and earth are usually enough to solve most of our problems but we often want to remain "give me" babies.
The heart beat and cry of God is not to give these lollipops but to change our hearts supernaturally. To save His people from their sins. No miracle beats this in God's priority. Building skyscrapers in a week, raising all the dead people in the cemetery doesn't equal to one sinner saved by grace from the power of sin and the influence of satan.
Of course, God still does the unexplained supernatural. There are Words of knowledge that cannot be naturally explained. A man of God can tell you what he could never have known and that you might not even know. You can be told what you did that was a secret, only you knew it several years ago. There are many charlatans around but there are also some people who truly operate in this.

Good, so nobody today has actually seen Jesus physically, they are referring instead to their particular subjective experiences. If you've never seen an animal, plant or being physically how are you able to attribute the term alive to them? Or is the word alive metaphorical?

Lol, subjective indeed. i refer to radical experiences. Paul met Jesus, you may argue not physically but it was just as good and even better. Who physical help? Some people were thronging Jesus and didn't get anything. Meanwhile, several fellowship with Him daily, have their joy, peace and deliverance from Him that takes them through the rest of their lives. There are millions of people willing to share of where Jesus brought them from to where they are today. i knew a man, paralyzed, dying and church rat poor. He met Jesus this same way. He was supernaturally healed and up on his feet in a week. What did he do, he gave his life to Jesus from being a sinner. That's all. No thunder or fireworks. Today, he's a owner of lands and cars. He's a married man with children. And he was saved from sin. BTW, he used to be a notorious thug in his community before his sickness. Today, he's "gentle jack", preaching and giving out. i don't know how i can tell such a person that he didn't meet Jesus. i really don't know.

Nothingserious:


Lol!

There is no prize for this discussion. Why should I be worried that you decline further comments on it? You weren’t born an atheist. You picked up certain info along the way as you grew up and formed your worldview right?

Did you know about the historical Jesus at birth? Did you know about the intellectual objections you are offering to Christianity and the validity of the Biblical claims?
How did you pick up your defenses against the gospels and their historical qualities? Where did you see the actors you believed existed in history? So why should you get angry that I pointed out a very simple and obvious fact that some atheists advised other atheists to concede that Jesus of Nazareth existed as described in the Bible and argue rather on his divinity claims?

Abeg no vex.

I am not angry that you pointed out that i obviously acquired information. I am peeved because you are acting stuck up and prejudiced. I could have blown you off as "one of those bible defending apologist" with nothing new to say but I didn't. You on the other hand are acting like you know it all. You think I haven't heard anything you have to say?

LordReed:


I am not angry that you pointed out that i obviously acquired information. I am peeved because you are acting stuck up and prejudiced. I could have blown you off as "one of those bible defending apologist" with nothing new to say but I didn't. You on the other hand are acting like you know it all. You think I haven't heard anything you have to say?

I like you. But you actually got angry by that statement from the tone of your voice. That’s okay. You are free to label me anything. I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in the totality of the Bible. I believe in the afterlife. I believe in supernatural phenomena. I am a Christian.

You are an atheist ( even though most atheists don’t agree on what atheism is). It is okay for me to assume that most atheists don’t believe in most of the things I believe in. That makes me relaxed in my engagements with you. They are merely academic. The Holy Spirit is the sole agent for convictions and conversions. So don’t worry about me.

Just for your info. We have heard most of your objections too. And most of your objections have been successful rebuffed at the highest level of scholarship. Lol!

Nothingserious:


I like you. But you actually got angry by that statement from the tone of your voice. That’s okay. You are free to label me anything. I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in the totality of the Bible. I believe in the afterlife. I believe in supernatural phenomena. I am a Christian.

You are an atheist ( even though most atheists don’t agree on what atheism is). It is okay for me to assume that most atheists don’t believe in most of the things I believe in. That makes me relaxed in my engagements with you. They are merely academic. The Holy Spirit is the sole agent for convictions and conversions. So don’t worry about me.

Just for your info. We have heard most of your objections too. And most of your objections have been successful rebuffed at the highest level of scholarship. Lol!

Yep stuck up for sure. Give me a pass will you, not interested.

LordReed:


Yep stuck up for sure. Give me a pass will you, not interested.

Hahaha!
Usual atheist banter. Not surprised a bit.
Pls stop getting angry unnecessarily.
You didn’t build up those arguments. Just keep learning as we all are.
I am a proud Christian.

Nothingserious:


Hahaha!
Usual atheist banter. Not surprised a bit.
Pls stop getting angry unnecessarily.
You didn’t build up those arguments. Just keep learning as we all are.
I am a proud Christian.

[img]https://c./Dv1u3wqjGfIAAAAC/boring-bored.gif[/img]

Hassanmaye:

You are mad

For saying the truth?
Or I'm I wrong, will a serial rapists killer not go heaven if he repent and accept Jesus as his lord n savior.

And will an innocent Muslim child not go to hell simply for being a Muslim.

Did David not sleep with someone's wife n killed the person yet he is a man after god's heart.

Who knows the person he killed might even go to hell but the killer is a man after god's heart.

Can u see there's no morality in yr religion.

LordReed:


[img]https://c./Dv1u3wqjGfIAAAAC/boring-bored.gif[/img]

Hahaha!
E shock you abi?

On a lighter note, why do most atheists struggle with the definition of atheism?

Nothingserious:


Hahaha!
E shock you abi?

[img]https://c./Dv1u3wqjGfIAAAAC/boring-bored.gif[/img]

LordReed:
[img]https://c./Dv1u3wqjGfIAAAAC/boring-bored.gif[/img]

You aren’t even any different from the new online/internet atheists that always come with that air of bogus intellectual superiority.
Lol!

Nothingserious:


You aren’t even any different from the new online/internet atheists that always come with that air of bogus intellectual superiority.
Lol!

[img]https://c./Dv1u3wqjGfIAAAAC/boring-bored.gif[/img]

Image123:


i think you might learn a thing listening to this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1XJ7DeR5fc

I stopped listening when he said the Bible is the supreme authority. If you take a book of which the original manuscripts don't exist and the extant manuscripts have differences as a supreme authority then I think there is no need for further discussion.

Nothingserious:


You are right. The Christian needs no further arguments to believe.

But a skeptic who doesn’t believe in the Bible could ask for evidences and put up intellectual objections. That is okay for any rational human to do. Even some believers whose faith are shaken at one time or another get encouraged when they have some of these background info. Of course the ultimate convictions lie with God through the Holy Spirit. That is incontestable.

“...and the Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16:14‬ ‭AMPC‬‬


See how Paul approached and reasoned and argued and preached in Acts 17.
He reasoned from the Scriptures with the Jews.
He reasoned from logic and philosophy with the Greeks and the philosophers.

“But when some became more and more stubborn (hardened and unbelieving), discrediting and reviling and speaking evil of the Way [of the Lord] before the congregation, he separated himself from them, taking the disciples with him, and went on holding daily discussions in the lecture room of Tyrannus from about ten o'clock till three.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:9‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

“This continued for two years, so that all the inhabitants of [the province of] Asia, Jews as well as Greeks, heard the Word of the Lord [concerning the attainment through Christ of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God]. And God did unusual and extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, So that handkerchiefs or towels or aprons which had touched his skin were carried away and put upon the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:10-13

“Then Agrippa said to Paul, You think it a small task to make a Christian of me [just offhand to induce me with little ado and persuasion, at very short notice].”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭AMPC‬‬

I love you. I'm always in love with Christians who have the Word.GOD expand and enlarge you even more so in the knowledge and wisdom of His Word, amen iJN.

BJanta:


I love you. I'm always in love with Christians who have the Word.GOD expand and enlarge you even more so in the knowledge and wisdom of His Word, amen iJN.

Amen!
God bless you too and enlarge your coasts.
Cheers.

LordReed:


I stopped listening when he said the Bible is the supreme authority. If you take a book of which the original manuscripts don't exist and the extant manuscripts have differences as a supreme authority then I think there is no need for further discussion.

You should listen to the points and arguments he makes, not just his belief. He's a pastor and he was preaching to his audience. Should believers stop listening once we hear someone doesn't believe in God? Try to hear him out and give the benefit of doubt.

Image123:


You should listen to the points and arguments he makes, not just his belief. He's a pastor and he was preaching to his audience. Should believers stop listening once we hear someone doesn't believe in God? Try to hear him out and give the benefit of doubt.

He's not going to reciprocate so why should I. When somebody tells me there is nothing that can change their mind I tend to let them be. He makes it clear that the fact there are no original manuscripts for the bible doesn't stop him from considering the Bible as supreme.

LordReed:


He's not going to reciprocate so why should I. When somebody tells me there is nothing that can change their mind I tend to let them be. He makes it clear that the fact there are no original manuscripts for the bible doesn't stop him from considering the Bible as supreme.

It's your choice.

maynia:


Sheep

Proudly a sheep to a loving heavenly shepherd whom never forsake his sheep’s.

tydi:






Proudly a sheep to a loving heavenly shepherd whom never forsake his sheep’s.

he’s so loving he had to create hell

Righteousness2:
Let's even leave the Galiee Boat.

The Events playing out on Earth Presently Before our Eyes Just as JESUS Christ said it would, is clear enough for anyone to know and Understand that the Holy Bible is the Word of GOD and that JESUS Christ is the Only means of Salvation.

No one on Earth today has an Excuse for not Believing in JESUS Christ as we are seeing Bible being Fulfilled Live before us.

Listen Folks,
Mary won't Save you,
Buddha won't Save you,
Mohammed won't save you,
Allah won't save you,
Dead saints won't save you,
The new age movement won't save you,
Religion won't save you,
Your works ( good things we do) won't save you

There is Only One Way through which we can be Saved.
There is Only One Name that Saves and One way to Heaven.
That way and Name is JESUS Christ .

see how well you started saying it and then you just jump enter bush, Mary and those "dead" saints like you call them are not meant to save, they are special to God and so their pleading on yours and my behalf gives us a better shot at redemption, secondly they are not dead unless you are one of those who do not understand what dying with Christ offers. Conclusion, the only thing you got right is that the time has come for Christs' return, you too needs to check how much you know, don't let pride blind you, learn, please learn, don't be one of those Christ will tell "depart from me I know you not"