It should be scrapped. What does it do that the FEC cannot do? if GEJ needs advice from any past leader (perhaps on the circumstances of Nigeria supporting the ECOMOG initiative etc), then he should simply call the relevant past leader to Abuja for discussions.

As an aside, we also have too many agencies and commissions that are just paying salaries and adding no value to the common man. many of these should be scrapped too.

Do these people get paid for this or are they volunteers? the former adds my vote to scrap it!!! the latter. . . . not soo much. Lets keep them all in one place and hope they get taken out together

klas:

Council of state does not deal with federal matters but national matters. Read my post again. It deals with matters that commit or affect the states e.g. minimum wage, elections into the state offices, population census with consequential effect on revenue allocation.

What complication or waste of money are we talking about? Of all the symbol of our federalism, the council of state is the least expensive - almost at no cost. The difference between unitary and federal system of government is the requirement  for consensus of the component units on matters of common interest. That is  formally achieved thru the council.

Let us forsee a situation where africa achieves the proposed common government but no provision is made for Heads of state of component units to ever meet. It will just be like the relationship we have currently between the state and local governments.

I read thru the thread b4 making my previous comment. The impression I got is that some people dont like the face of some members of the Council and if those faces can vamoose, the council can stay.

NONSENSE!! Not you, but the idea and argument you presented.

What are the component units? National VS Federal? What are you talking about? Maybe we should add national pastors and Imams too

We already have the Executive, the Legislature, and the Judiciary, if we can't work with those then we should return to Village Square government.

You said the cost is minimal? How much is it? what is the point in throwing away money? No matter how minimal, especially when you have 150 million people to govern.

I don't care about democratically "ejected" leaders, it's not just about the former rulers currently in the body, if you really read what was written earlier you'll find the reasons.

Jonathan Should Propose a bill to Expunge the Darn thing. It is a redundant Padi Padi body a symptom of our bigmanism national disease.

queensmith:

Do these people get paid for this or are they volunteers? the former adds my vote to scrap it!!! the latter. . . . not soo much. Lets keep them all in one place and hope they get taken out together

I'm sure they get paid for attending those meetings, not sure how much though, maybe the FOI bill will help with that.

I'm less concerned about the money, although it is important too. IMO, Their power to approve or dis-approve has negative implications for a democratic system where people should be able to elect their political decision makers and make them accountable for those decisions.

I mean they are approving minimum wage and Authorizing the Military for specific duties
http://thewillnigeria.com/politics/8016-Council-State-Approves-Military-For-April-Election.html

That is too much power for some unelected leaders who are not even part if the executive, they already served their term.

There is no need to keep the same crop of leaders in place to make decisions for Nigerians when we already voted them out, that is not Fresh Air!

Nigeria is not a Village and we are not practising Gerontocracy.

[img]http://thewillnigeria.com/thumbnail.php?file=cover_COUNCIL_OF_STATE_MEETING__313201428.jpg&size=article_medium[/img]

Previous NL Threads on the absurdity called Council of state:

McKren:

Every passing day we moan about our past leaders without doing anything systematically to detach ourselves from that past. What hope for the future when the failed past has become a permanent part of our future.

As a country which experienced executive kleptocracy by past leaders especially Military heads of Government, its about time the aspect of the constitution which makes it mandatory for past military heads of Government to become life members of council of State be reviewed.

We have no business hoping to move forward when our failed past is an integral part of the future.

In fact I think a past head of Government should have to pass through NASS screening to be a member of Council of State, a screening which should be based on merit and how most your actions reflected National Interest as leader.

Otherwise our elections will continue to be cosmetic since whoever we vote for is at risk of being teleguided by past corrupt leaders.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=102557.msg1802346#msg1802346

Beaf:

Council of State (Nigeria)

The Nigerian Council of State is an organ of the Nigerian Government. Its functions include advising the executive on policy making.

Composition
The Council of State consists of the following persons:
• President, who is the Chairman;
• Vice-President, who is the Deputy Chairman;
• All former Presidents of the Federation and all former Heads of the Government of the Federation;
• All former Chief Justices of Nigeria;
• President of the Senate;
• Speaker of the House of Representatives;
• All the Governors of the states of the Federation; and
• Attorney-General of the Federation.

Duties
The council has the following responsibilities:
1. Advise the President in the exercise of his powers with respect to the:-
• National population census and compilation, publication and keeping of records and other information concerning the same;
• Prerogative of mercy;
• Award of national honours;
• The Independent National Electoral Commission (including the appointment of members of that Commission);
• The National Judicial Council (including the appointment of the members, other than ex-officio members of that Council);
• The National Population Commission (including the appointment of members of that Commission); and
2. Advise the President whenever requested to do so on the maintenance of public order within the Federation or any part thereof and on such other matters as the President may direct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_State_(Nigeria)

Beaf:

. . .We are mere passengers in our stolen country.

Oloko Nla:

I find it somewhat strange that ex-presidents are allowed to sit in council of state meetings in Nigeria. I know proponents of it may rest their points in the fact that there is wisdom in people who have ruled before but isn't this same logic detrimental to the wheels of change churning faster in Nigeria?

for example, imagine if JFK were alive and sitting in Obama's council of state meeting, what value would he bring in terms of perspective and grasping the complexities of the present versus the times and challenges JFK found himself?

In today's thisdayonline(http://thisdayonline.com/) we have Shagari, Obj, Buhari, Sonekan and Gowon all present @ Council of state meetings, how can we ever get fresh ideas into Aso rock with such a sitting of stale old people influencing decisions in Nigeria?

We need to expunge the damn thing, it's a clear impediment.

[size=16pt]Intelligent contributions from most of you.
However, can u imagine if Bank'Ole the youthful but bastardly corrupt youngman happens to be president and there is no Council of State to advise?
Do you know what will happen to your country?

Besides, I don't think that it is a good idea to label people who your fathers aspired but couldnt be like as 'deadwoods'.

Have you thought of the next 50 years when the Council of State will comprise of some of the Finest brains like Fashola, Ngige, Rochas, Sanusi etc? Why throw away the baby with the bath water?

Don't any of you think that the major reason the Council of State was enshrined in the Constitution is to prevent any future military Coups as much as possible?[/size]

^ I actually think the Council of State was enshrined in the Constitution because it was written by people who conciously or unconciously subscribe to the extreme social ideology which rates of age and status as the ultimate measure of good leadership and wisdom.

Now, I said extreme because I believe age can bring wisdom, but in a democracy where is is important to value the diversity of thoughts and opinion, I think we do ourselves a great disservice when we allow the same crop of people to officially make and influence decisions even after they've been removed by the people.

We need to stop thinking small about our people. If we elect a Bankole to power we don't need a bunch of former presidents to officially teleguide him, he can have advisers and we can remove him if we believe he's not leading us right, democracy allows that, but this CoS stuff is redundant and unnecessary, actually it is dangerous.

It does not help us to break the circle of backward group-think at the upper echelon of government and it also makes us dependent on people who might use their influence to protect their ignoble stewardship and legacy.

It is an unnecessary body.

Kilode?!:

We need to stop thinking small about our people. If we elect a Bankole to power we don't need a bunch of former presidents to officially teleguide him, he can have advisers and we can remove him if we believe he's not leading us right, democracy allows that, but this CoS stuff is redundant and unnecessary, actually it is dangerous.

It does not help us to break the circle of backward group-think at the upper echelon of government and it also makes us dependent on people who might use their influence to protect their ignoble stewardship and legacy.

Bunch of Advisers!!
U seem to have forgotten that Advisers are simply glorified Employees who are appointed to receive perks from Government apron strings.
They cannot advice talk less correct the erring President.
But members of the Council of state can look Mr President in the eyes and scold him.

By and large, I don't care whether the council is scrapped or not. All that concern me is the astronomical funds my husband and I spend on powering fuel-sucking dragon-like monstrous generators.

enyojo:

But members of the Council of state can look Mr President in the eyes and scold him.

In serious societies, presidential advisers are experts in their field who are passionate about the policy they advice on, they are powerful and accomplished enough to look their president in the eye and scold him. Read up on the advisers around US presidents, they are not errand boys.

they are also not spent forces appointed because they ruled earlier

By and large, I don't care whether the council is scrapped or not. All that concern me is the astronomical funds my husband and I spend on powering fuel-sucking dragon-like monstrous generators.

How are we sure people like IBB, Gowon and their friends are not the forces behind the companies profiting form these generators and diesel import taking money away from you and you family? besides, which advice will they give to fix what they clearly refused or failed to fix when they were in power?

^^ I personally know MANY generator 'Barons' who are profiting from the dark-age Nigerians are experiencing in the hands of epileptic PHCN.
Many of these tiny-gods have never tasted any elective positions.
So council of state scrapping may offer little or no help.

^^
It becomes more dangerous when they are policy or decision makers with unrestricted access to power, with constitutionally backed power to influence the direction of government policies, appointments and even the emergency use of Military force.

If you take a calm deep look at the Council of S and compare whatever pro you see in it, with the cons already outlined by many of us here, I believe you will see why it is an unnecessary body. If not, I guess we can agree to disagree.

As for me, I want it removed from the current Nigerian constitution or any law we eventually write.

With elitist David mark on the driver's seat in the 'hollow' and 'shallow' chamber of the Senate and PDP stooge at the HOR,
expect this your anticipated change after this tenure maybe 2015-beyond.

the truth as i see it is that a nation will only work with the kind of leaders and states men available hopefully as time goes on and the nation produces more credible and upstanding statesmen the old guard will be slowly phased out.
however the function they are undertaking like others have said is purely ceremonial as they cant compel the president to do anything he doesnt want to do. the gathering is also a useful tool to harness different opinions and yearnings from different ethnic and geo political groups together
people like buhari if he means well,abdulsalami and co had be used to read out to traditional leaders in boko haram enclaves to gather intelligence,they can be used to placate particular ethnic or religious demographics and their wisdom and experiences can be put to use

^^ They don't have to be in a Council of State to do ANY of those things you listed. Advisers and leaders abound and there is no evidence to suggest that these people are wise or capable of giving great advice anyway.

I still can't undestand why some folks believe we need to keep the same crop of people in the corridors of power all through their lifes. BTW their influence goes beyond mere powerless advice, several links and examples had been given to show that they are more than ceremonial, these people are very influential.

There must be something cultural here I'm not keying into. I think it's worth researching for those who are so inclined, might explain a lot of our problems.

Kilode?!:

^^ They don't have to be in a Council of State to do ANY of those things you listed.

fair enough but at least by designating a council to them collective responsibility then kicks in,not just the presidency will be expecting much of them now,but the whole of nigeria seeing as they have been designated

Kilode?!:

Advisers and leaders abound and there is no evidence to suggest that these people are wise or capable of giving great advice anyway.

true,but nothing beats experience spanning many years,lets use OBJ as an example not counting his bad sides what one we cant knock is that he has the skills to stabilise any government he has had the experience of military and civillian,he has been in coup situation,war e.t.c same goes for the other members.they will give advice its down to you as the president to take some or all of their advice

Kilode?!:

I still can't undestand why some folks believe we need to keep the same crop of people in the corridors of power all through their lifes. BTW their influence goes beyond mere powerless advice, several links and examples had been given to show that they are more than ceremonial, these people are very influential.

we need to kep them purely out of necessity,trust me no president as nigeria is presently constituted wants to rule without at least consulting them,it will be like a security guard in a jewelry store sleeping off.they are not really doing any harm as such and yes their official powers are ceremonial however you need to consider their advantages e.g stabilising the govt as the ears are to the ground.
they can broker concessions amongst the divides because of the respect they command,settle contentious issues

Kilode?!:

There must be something cultural here I'm not keying into. I think it's worth researching for those who are so inclined, might explain a lot of our problems.

yes there is and not just cultural but political and its called gerontocracy
gerontocracy n. , pl. , -cies . Government based on rule by elders. A governing group of elders.
which i believe sort of ties into our culture and the position of elders

Kilode?!:

^^ They don't have to be in a Council of State to do ANY of those things you listed. Advisers and leaders abound and there is no evidence to suggest that these people are wise or capable of giving great advice anyway.
I still can't undestand why some folks believe we need to keep the same crop of people in the corridors of power all through their lifes. BTW their influence goes beyond mere powerless advice, several links and examples had been given to show that they are more than ceremonial, these people are very influential.

There must be something cultural here I'm not keying into. I think it's worth researching for those who are so inclined, might explain a lot of our problems.

Too optimistic in Advisers

^ you mean you can't give advice in your area of professional expertise?

You made several smart points in the course of the 2011 election, you are obviously not dumb. There many smart policy experts in Nigeria or with connection to Nigeria, but how do you bring them on when you always need to listen to these same BS leaders with Zero track record of credible achievements.

@Lucabrasi, I have great respect for our culture but this has nothing to do with that, at least not the culture I'm aware of, besides, we are not the only society with respect for elders, it's a common theme across human societies and cultures, it is not an excuse for redundant BS leadership recycling.

BTW, If we want to stick to culture, all our former leaders will be dead by now. My part of Nigeria is well known for forcing leaders and kings to commit suicide when we want them out of power. That is a culture that recognizes the need to have a clean break from a useless "past"

. . .and we are not practising Gerontocracy, we have a Democracy -at least so it seems-  I made that point earlier on in the thread, we need to quit confusing our people.

I don't buy your argument about OBJ. what skills? What you call "stabilize" is what I refer to as "destabilize" and "chaotic" Nigeria is definitely an unstable democracy thanks to the skills of leaders like him.

EDIT

^^^


So your grouse is with the constitution of the body? The fact that a lot of anti-democratic forces are included?

Is that your main issue?

I second the motion

Delete them!

Wizardofoz:

^^^


So your grouse is with the constitution of the body? The fact that a lot of anti-democratic forces are included?

Is that your main issue?

Nope. My main issue, as I explained earlier in the thread, is with the idea itself.

The issue with the present crop of members is just secondary. I don't believe like some do that future Nigerian leaders will be some bunch of divine mother Theresas with eternal good intentions.

Kilode?!:

@Lucabrasi, I have great respect for our culture but this has nothing to do with that, at least not the culture I'm aware of, besides, we are not the only society with respect for elders, it's a common theme across human societies and cultures, it is not an excuse for redundant BS leadership recycling.

i disagree with this assertion,if you check the lenght and breadth of africa where the whole idea of gerontocracy has taken root,the old generations are still sought out for advice or to play a role in governance,look at the whole of africa and their leaders,now check which of them is below 50 then you will begin to appreciate what i mean.now lets face it a president who is old will feel more comfortable being adviced by someone of similar age group

Kilode?!:

BTW, If we want to stick to culture, all our former leaders will be dead by now. My part of Nigeria is well known for forcing leaders and kings to commit suicide when we want them out of power. That is a culture that recognizes the need to have a clean break from a useless "past"

i presume you are reffering to the obas in pre colonial yoruba land,this practise was exclusive to the obas/traditional leaders and not old people besides in the same era you are making reference to in every culture yoruba,hausa,ibo the village always had the group of old people who stood as advicers and a pressure group to check the excesses and mediate in disputes e.t.c

Kilode?!:

. . .and we are not practising Gerontocracy, we have a Democracy -at least so it seems- I made that point earlier on in the thread, we need to quit confusing our people.

no sire,we might be practising democratic ideals but i dont need to tell you we are not practising a pure democracy,the elders have traditionally ruled in african countries/democracies and the third world generally that is a baggage and a tie in from our cultural/traditional past.

Kilode?!:

I don't buy your argument about OBJ. what skills? What you call "stabilize" is what I refer to as "destabilize" and "chaotic" Nigeria is definitely an unstable democracy thanks to the skills of leaders like him.

well you might disagree with me on obj but the fact of the matter is that the end justifies the means.
ivan the terrible was despised by many but he transformed russia
chairman mao zedong was despised,in fact he made a statement that he was ok for 10 million chinese to die of hunger if it will enure his cultural revolution will be sucessful and millions actually died of hunger,apart from this he killed a large number in tianamen square but he is credited with forming the blue print for present day china,
love him or hate him,it is actually people like obasanjo(the obnoxious,brutish type)that nigerians understand will the likes of atiku,tinubu,buhari be indulging in all they are now if obasanjo was the president?
he would have sorted out the boko haram issue GEJ seems clueless about
the fact that nigeria is an unstable democracy,and the peculiar nature of tribalism/ethic politics also makes an obasanjo needed

lucabrasi:

i disagree with this assertion,[/b]if you check the lenght and breadth of africa where the whole idea of gerontocracy has taken root,the old generations are still sought out for advice or to play a role in governance, look at the whole of africa and their leaders,now check which of them is below 50 then you will begin to appreciate what i mean.

[b]now lets face it a president who is old will feel more comfortable being adviced by someone of similar age group

What exactly do you disagree with?  That we are NOT the only culture with "respect for elders" in our tradition?

That we should not use "Let's keep the elders as advisers" excuses to justify the Council of State?

Your statement in bold; Let's not face it sir. It is your opinion and a conjecture.

I know many older people who like to work with younger folks, Also, it is a dangerous backward way to think if you want progress. Good leaders should seek advise from competent people, period.

i presume you are reffering to the obas in pre colonial yoruba land,this practise was exclusive to the obas/traditional leaders and not old people besides in the same era you are making reference to in every culture yoruba,hausa,ibo the village always had the group of old people who stood as advicers and a pressure group to check the excesses and mediate in disputes e.t.c

When did this become an argument against Old people? I don't have anything against old people. I'm arguing against a constitutional provision that's keeping THE SAME PEOPLE in the corridors of power regardless of what the electorates want or decide.

Besides, IBB, Gowon, OBJ and co are not the oldest people in Nigeria. Actually there is a generation or two of Nigerian statesmen and politicians who are far older than they are and a few of them are still alive. If you want to argue for Gerontocracy those are the people you should be demanding for, Not OBJ, IBB or even Shagari.

Let us stay on point.

Also, I'm sure we've established that this is not an argument against presidential advisers, this is about a constitutional provision that has kept the same crop of people on as advisers and policy influencers with the power to authorise sensitive actions no matter who is elected as president. It's sad you don't see that as dangerous.

no sire,we might be practising democratic ideals but i dont need to tell you we are not practising a pure democracy,the elders have traditionally ruled in african countries/democracies and the third world generally that is a baggage and a tie in from our cultural/traditional past.

Again, that confusion thing I mentioned very early on in the thread, STOP confusing your people, make up your mind.

You cannot run your Government on some hodge-podge collection of opposing systems and expect progress.

If you want democracy, then do it. If you don't want it, then return to your village system and make sure you also accept the wisdom of it's traditional checks and balances, e.g we can make our presidents swallow poison instead of just impeaching them. Shebi we like tradition now 

I particularly like my Culture and I can argue for it but not the way you are doing it. What you are arguing for is called CONFUSION. or maybe I should call it Cabaltocracy.

Bro, what we have is state sanctioned Cronyism, except in this case they don't need to be relatives but just former associates or former Heads of State. We will not progress if we don't have a well articulated government system. It is a no-brainer really.

well you might disagree with me on obj but the fact of the matter is that the end justifies the means.
ivan the terrible was despised by many but he transformed russia
chairman mao zedong was despised,in fact he made a statement that he was ok for 10 million chinese to die of hunger if it will enure his cultural revolution will be sucessful and millions actually died of hunger,apart from this he killed a large number in tianamen square but he is credited with forming the blue print for present day china,

the fact that nigeria is an unstable democracy,
and the peculiar nature of tribalism/ethic politics also makes an obasanjo needed

Then work to make it more stable, stop arguing for more confusion. Will ethnic politics die with OBJ? I don't think so.

Obasanjo is not in Government. He had his chance, IBB is not in Government he used up his opportunity. There is no reason to keep them on constitutionally.

As per Chairman Mao and other dictators, Wether you agree with them or not, at least they had well articulated ideologies. Mao's revolution, though brutal, was for a particular purpose and for specific results, and like you said, China is still reaping the benefits.

Explain OBJ's philosopical ideology, or Abacha's(He w'ld be in the CoS today if he was alive) or IBB's, then show me the results of their "brutish, obnoxious tactic" as you called it.

love him or hate him,it is actually people like obasanjo(the obnoxious,brutish type)that nigerians understand will the likes of atiku,tinubu,buhari be indulging in all they are now if obasanjo was the president?

Sorry, I'm a Nigerian and I don't understand people like OBJ. Besides, my position has little to do with specific leaders.

Kilode?!:

What exactly do you disagree with? That we are NOT the only culture with "respect for elders" in our tradition?

in your retort you mentioned that this topic has nothing to do with our culture i.e of respect for elders,seeking advice from them e.t.c and furthermore asserted that this cuts across the board,inferring that the situation we have in nigeria does not exist in other parts of the world which prompted the reply from me that i disagree with these two assertions

Kilode?!:

That we should not use "Let's keep the elders as advisers" excuses to justify the Council of State?
Your statement in bold; Let's not face it sir. It is your opinion and a conjecture.

in the united states,the opinions of statesmen/women are still sought notably papa bush,business and religious leaders e.t.c
pls lets do a chronological research of past leaders and even influential people and look at their business associates,company lawyers and accountants
the likes of afe babalola,richard akinjideare still family lawyers to the old guard how many of them do you see using a kayode ajulo,keyamo
lets look at our political scene,apart from lately that relatively young people have been given political appointments as special assistants how many young people can boast of holding politically sensitive positions i.e percentage over ll?
so i am sorry i totally disagree with you it is a general opinion

Kilode?!:

I know many older people who like to work with younger folks, Also, it is a dangerous backward way to think if you want progress. Good leaders should seek advise from competent people, period.

lets not get ahead of ourselves here,its not about mine or yours or anyone's personal opinion,its about what is on ground
When did this become an argument against Old people? I don't have anything against old people. I'm arguing against a constitutional provision that's keeping THE SAME PEOPLE in the corridors of power regardless of what the electorates want or decide.

Kilode?!:

Besides, IBB, Gowon, OBJ and co are not the oldest people in Nigeria. Actually there is a generation or two of Nigerian statesmen and politicians who are far older than they are and a few of them are still alive. If you want to argue for Gerontocracy those are the people you should be demanding for, Not OBJ, IBB or even Shagari.

true but one thread that ties them together and puts them in a different class to 87 yrs old baba lasisi is that
1.they at onetime or the other have ruled the complex nation called nigeria
2.hold a lot of influence in their domain,and amongst influential nigerians
now if awolowo and his ilk were alive then this argument could hold some water but its a moot point as they r not

Kilode?!:

Let us stay on point.

Also, I'm sure we've established that this is not an argument against presidential advisers, this is about a constitutional provision that has kept the same crop of people on as advisers and policy influencers with the power to authorise sensitive actions no matter who is elected as president. It's sad you don't see that as dangerous.

well maybe there hasnt being enough people credible enough nor influential enough to take over from them?when ibb said the younger generation were unprepared was he lieing?
would you rather they were replaced by the likes of dimeji bankole?
or the so called youth representatives who went to collect 50grand bribe? i personally dont subscribe to blaming those guys,because we the so called next generation have not done any better so we dont have any moral unction to criticize

Kilode?!:

Again, that confusion thing I mentioned very early on in the thread, STOP confusing your people, make up your mind.

pls check your comments and you will get the context in which i replied,i wasnt confusing you r the one that lost the context of the comment check your comments again and you will understand

Kilode?!:

You cannot run your Government on some hodge-podge collection of opposing systems and expect progress.
If you want democracy, then do it. If you don't want it, then return to your village system and make sure you also accept the wisdom of it's traditional checks and balances, e.g we can make our presidents swallow poison instead of just impeaching them. Shebi we like tradition now

i have news for you sire,nobody is practising real democracy,from the western world to africa to the communist nation of china all practise a corrupted form of democracy with your "hodge-podge collection of opposing views"
you have to look at the practicalities and how realistic it is to do what you are proposing sucessfully
the traditional way of governance was straightfoward,was not complex

Kilode?!:

I particularly like my Culture and I can argue for it but not the way you are doing it. What you are arguing for is called CONFUSION. or maybe I should call it Cabaltocracy.

Bro, what we have is state sanctioned Cronyism, except in this case they don't need to be relatives but just former associates or former Heads of State. We will not progress if we don't have a well articulated government system. It is a no-brainer really.

its not about justifying anything but trying to state a few practicalities, why dont you give me an example of what you see as a perfect government and i will highlight the "cabaltocracy" "cronyism inherent in them.realism of politics and governance is totally different from the lofty n noble ideals you r painting.
in an ideal world nigerian youths will rise up like those of the middle east and take their destiny in their hands
in an ideal world the british and havard educated dimeji bankole will perform brilliantly just like he was thought in oxford and havard

Kilode?!:

Then work to make it more stable, stop arguing for more confusion. Will ethnic politics die with OBJ? I don't think so.

Obasanjo is not in Government. He had his chance, IBB is not in Government he used up his opportunity. There is no reason to keep them on constitutionally.

true,maybe in an ideal stableand entrenched democracy not an unstable one where tribal/ethnic affiliations over rule every other considerations

Kilode?!:

As per Chairman Mao and other dicatators, Wether you agree with them or not, at least they had well articulated ideologies. Mao's revolution, though brutal, was for a particular purpose and for specific results, and like you said China is still reaping the benefits.

Explain OBJ's philosopical ideology, or Abacha's(He w'ld be in the CoS today if he was alive) or IBB's, then show me the results of their "brutish, obnoxious tactic" as you called it.

that is the point!nobody during their time understood their driving ideologies do youknow how many years it took for mao to be regarded and revered?
same goes for the others as well
where did abacha come into the conversation,i thought you were on about the members of the council of state?
maybe you should read up on history and check the methods leaders like the mao zedongs used doyou know how many protesting youths died at tianamen square?
as evil as hitler was,his total focus was to make germany a great nation and some twisted people still adore him for it
sir you should go and read "the prince" and you will see the qualities machiavelli ascribes to a prince

Kilode?!:

Sorry, I'm a Nigerian and I don't understand people like OBJ. Besides my position has little to do with specific leaders.

you are 1 IN 150 MILLION PLUS SIRE

^^ try to clean up your reply so I can respond. It seems you are replying me with my own posts. I can't make head or tail of most of the stuff you wrote.

@Lucabrasi, since you've not cleaned it, I'll respond to the ones I understand.

lucabrasi:

in your retort you mentioned that this topic has nothing to do with our culture i.e of respect for elders,seeking advice from them e.t.c and furthermore asserted that this cuts across the board,inferring that the situation we have in nigeria does not exist in other parts of the world which prompted the reply from me that i disagree with these two assertions

So other modern democracies like ours choose presidential advisers and perpetuate them in office via constitutional arrangements because of their age and prior role in government?

Please post examples, I'm interested.

in the united states,the opinions of statesmen/women are still sought notably papa bush,business and religious leaders e.t.c
pls lets do a chronological research of past leaders and even influential people and look at their business associates,company lawyers and accountants
the likes of afe babalola,richard akinjideare still family lawyers to the old guard how many of them do you see using a kayode ajulo,keyamo
lets look at our political scene,apart from lately that relatively young people have been given political appointments as special assistants how many young people can boast of holding politically sensitive positions i.e percentage over ll?
so i am sorry i totally disagree with you it is a general opinionlets not get ahead of ourselves here,its not about mine or yours or anyone's personal opinion,

All these has nothing to do with the argument really.

Besides, seeking someone's advice is different from authorizing their advice via a Constitutional mandate regardless who the electorate chooses as president.

I hope you can see the difference

true but one thread that ties them together and puts them in a different class to 87 yrs old baba lasisi is that
1.they at onetime or the other have ruled the complex nation called nigeria
2.hold a lot of influence in their domain,and amongst influential nigerians

now if awolowo and his ilk were alive then this argument could hold some water but its a moot point as they r notwell maybe there hasnt being enough people credible enough nor influential enough to take over from them?when ibb said the younger generation were unprepared was he lieing?

Again, this Old versus Young argument is unnecessary, The CoS is not about age obviously, except you have the original intent of the writers with you, and I will like to see that evidence.

BTW, IBB is a conniving dullard with diarrhea of the mouth. That was an unintelligent statement he made. I hope you don't believe him.

would you rather they were replaced by the likes of dimeji bankole?
or the so called youth representatives who went to collect 50grand bribe? i personally dont subscribe to blaming those guys,because we the so called next generation have not done any better so we dont have any moral unction to criticizepls check your comments and you will get the context in which i replied,i wasnt confusing you r the one that lost the context of the comment check your comments again and you will understand

What is your point really? Because Bankole is corrupt then all Nigerians are corrupt? or all Young Nigerians are corrupt?

Are you saying that is the reason why we should have the CoS and keep the former leaders in power constitutionally!!

. . .and continue to allow them influence any new president we elect?!!!


This is not about age bro, and it is not about morality, it is about a silly constitutional idea that's  keeping the same folks in power perpetually. We don't know why the writers did that. 

You are suggesting they did it because they want old experienced folks in government to advice the president, I'm saying that is a dumb reason.

I believe they did it to protect the interests of those who want to keep controlling Nigeria.

i have news for you sire,nobody is practising real democracy,from the western world to africa to the communist nation of china all practise a corrupted form of democracy with your "hodge-podge collection of opposing views"
you have to look at the practicalities and how realistic it is to do what you are proposing sucessfully
the traditional way of governance was straightfoward,was not complexits not about justifying anything but trying to state a few practicalities, why dont you give me an example of what you see as a perfect government and i will highlight the "cabaltocracy" "cronyism inherent in them.realism of politics and governance is totally different from the lofty n noble ideals you r painting.
in an ideal world nigerian youths will rise up like those of the middle east and take their destiny in their hands
in an ideal world the british and havard educated dimeji bankole will perform brilliantly just like he was thought in oxford and havardtrue,maybe in an ideal stableand entrenched democracy not an unstable one where tribal/ethnic affiliations over rule every other considerationsthat is the point!nobody during their time understood their driving ideologies do youknow how many years it took for mao to be regarded and revered?
same goes for the others as well
where did abacha come into the conversation,i thought you were on about the members of the council of state?
maybe you should read up on history and check the methods leaders like the mao zedongs used doyou know how many protesting youths died at tianamen square?
as evil as hitler was,his total focus was to make germany a great nation and some twisted people still adore him for it
sir you should go and read "the prince" and you will see the qualities machiavelli ascribes to

That nobody is practising a perfect system of government anywhere does not mean we should have state sanctioned Cronyism or Constitutionally empowered Godfathers.

Because we can't possibly have a world without murderers doesn't mean murder should be accepted. get it?

1 IN 150 MILLION PLUS SIRE

And you are 1 in 150Million too Sire.  You have no evidence to prove that most Nigerians WANT Brutish leaders.

Actually, you might be the only one who enjoys brutalization.

Kilode?!:

@Lucabrasi, since you've not cleaned it, I'll respond to the ones I understand.

i reallydont understand what you mean by"cleaning up your reply"i have gone through it again and with my limited written english skills,i believe all that i have written is clear,concise and in plain comprehension

Kilode?!:

So other modern democracies like ours choose presidential advisers and perpetuate them in office via constitutional arrangements because of their age and prior role in government?

Please post examples, I'm interested.

i guess you did not see the instance where i mentioned statesmen like papa bush,in adittion to this are bill clinton untill the present time
jimmy carter who plays the same role as the objs,ibb and co
if you r looking at the uk people like ming campbell and others i cant readily re call their names now and btw there is nowhere i mentioned or inferred that anyone of these people are "perpetuated in office via constitutional arrangement unless you ll like to show me where i did?

Kilode?!:

All these has nothing to do with the argument really.

Besides, seeking someone's advice is different from authorizing their advice via a Constitutional mandate regardless who the electorate chooses as president.

I hope you can see the difference

yes i do,and if you recall in my first comment or so,that was precisely why i said that they are there in an advisorial capacity,they cannot impose of force their views on the president/commander in chief so theres no difference really when you look at it this way

Kilode?!:

Again, this Old versus Young argument is unnecessary, The CoS is not about age obviously, except you have the original intent of the writers with you, and I will like to see that evidence.

BTW, IBB is a conniving dullard with diarrhea of the mouth. That was an unintelligent statement he made. I hope you don't believe him.

you really should go through comments and retorts we have made then you will see the reason and contexts of some of my comments,im not just making them in a vacuum.it might not be about age but there is a reason why experience plays a large part than educational attainments/
even in any company worth its salt including western world,they value the work experience more than any other qualification in considering a potential employee. moralof my pre amble?the combined experience of wellover a century locked in those statesmen's head needs to be properly utilised,think anything of them bit they will always have nuggets of wisdom nestling within advices,comments no matter how idiotic.

i believe ibb actually. why you ask me?
well dimeji bankole is one reason.
the so called youths reveling in the filthy lucre of "transport money" from gej is another reason.
the likes of dbanj,genevieve,ty bello,chude jideonwo and others making self serving and kiss ass statements is nother reason so dont blame me for subscribing to IBB'S views

Kilode?!:

What is your point really? Because Bankole is corrupt then all Nigerians are corrupt? or all Young Nigerians are corrupt?

pls check above,i have addressed this
btw i will be interested if you can show me a number of youths who have done a quarter of what the likes f gani,beko and co did in their time or that have showed a quarter of moral probity/uprightness like those gys,

Kilode?!:

Are you saying that is the reason why we should have the CoS and keep the former leaders in power constitutionally!!

. . .and continue to allow them influence any new president we elect?!!!

again this has been adequately dealt with ,pls refer to comments above
they do not unduly,note the operative word[b] unduly[/b] influence anything,ibb/buhari in concert with atiku came up with a candidate but lost.the great obj lost in his ward and state his daughter lost her elections so what influence exactly?

Kilode?!:

This is not about age bro, and it is not about morality, it is about a silly constitutional idea that's keeping the same folks in power perpetually. We don't know why the writers did that.

You are suggesting they did it because they want old experienced folks in government to advice the president, I'm saying that is a dumb reason.

well,like i said irrespective of the notion behind it,the reality is that they cannot enforce their views,they only have a relatively ceremonial office and are more like a rubber stamp,the last elections has shown this clearly.
its like saying that the queen of england has the power to call ageneral election because the constitution gives her the power to consitutionally utter the dates. we all know the power resides with the pm in cabinet and just like the council of state the power is token/ceremonial

Kilode?!:

I believe they did it to protect the interests of those who want to keep controlling Nigeria.

well they are clearly not ruling even their wards,talk less of state so i will be interested if you show me what or where they are ruling.
last i heard and read obj's candidate for governor lost
for senator lost,for speaker of reps lost

Kilode?!:

That nobody is practising a perfect system of government anywhere does not mean we should have state sanctioned Cronyism or Constitutionally empowered Godfathers.

i dont know about state sanctioned or constitutionally empowered but look around you and you will find cronies and godfathers everywhere
who or what is lord levy to t blair?
who or what is rupert murdoch to the conservative party?
this page will not even be enough to list the godfathers the tobacco and oil magnates behing both papa bush and little georgie
the tea party movement are being funded by godfathers who just like their nigerian counterparts have even remained hidden
Because we can't possibly have a world without murderers doesn't mean murder should be accepted. get it?

Kilode?!:

And you are 1 in 150Million too Sire. You have no evidence to prove that most Nigerians WANT Brutish leaders.

Actually, you might be the only one who enjoys brutalization.

i will suggest you do a cursory study of the peculiar nature of the nation called nigeria,compare GEJ's lukewarm,nice friendly government with obj and other's government, the bombs are still going off, politicians are still taking undue advantage of his nature,everything is crumbling around him he ie even giving away too much concessions
besides in a presidential system of governance being nice,cudly friendly e.t.c has not worked yet unless you will care to show me where it has