alphaNomega:


So are telling me it was not a serpent? It was something else?

Simple question. Simple answer.

Simple answer is what makes many fail exams of life. Bible don't just answer questions, it answer by explanation. Hence an answer to a Bible question without explanation is as dangerous as gambling in an objective exam questions.

So, you ask if it's not a serpent.

I guess I provided enough answers in my previous post to you.

Serpent are symbolic of character in Moses days.

Observe Moses wasn't the only writer or writing that survived the ancient near east culture of Mesopotamia. There was a way they wrote and communicate wisdom.

Serpent was used in their culture as symbolic when communicating. The same way as tortoise was used in several African folklore to explain ancient wisdom. This was how the ancient communicate wisdom.

A man call a Wiseman in ancient world is one who make use of his environment and things around to unravel wisdom and events.

Hence you will see this a lot in Moses writing.

Gen 49:17 KJV -
Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward

Here he used serpent to represent a man. A figurative expression. That was how Moses wrote as a Wiseman in his days.

So, if you read the Bible together you will find out yourself that the serpent in Genesis 3 is simply the devil.

So, read again that account of Genesis 3 for proper explanation.

budaatum:


What is loaded about it, workch? Don't you think you should observe before concluding and believing?

I think that if you look at the book through your science lens you'd see what I mean. It is my own education as an engineer after all, despite your unverified belief that I am google learned, that allows me to see Eve how I do, and if believers stop believing and instead do 'science' like Eve did, they too will be freed from slavery in the imaginary Garden of Eden that they are currently ignorantly enslaved in.

While you call it a fallacy, it's one that will unfortunately always pop up between us in this religious section. And neither of us is going anywhere soon, insha allah amen.

There's no belief in science, that's where you are taking this to and it won't get there. I have been doing science for 13years and I'm confident that beliefs don't work here. Whatever belief you have, you got to drop it in science then go back to it when you are done.

Hypotheses are not beliefs in science. Just take it or leave it.
You guys like pointless arguments alot on this forum

HedwigesMaduro:


So, how did you know it occurred, and lead to the existence of the universe?

We don't know how it started that's why research is ongoing to find the answer.

hupernikao:


Simple answer is what makes many fail exams of life.

This is why you like difficult and confusing things. Sufferhead life. It is people like you that make life difficult.

hupernikao:


Simple answer is what makes many fail exams of life. Bible don't just answer questions, it answer by explanation. Hence an answer to a Bible question without explanation is as dangerous as gambling in an objective exam questions.

So, you ask if it's not a serpent.

I guess I provided enough answers in my previous post to you.

Serpent are symbolic of character in Moses days.

Observe Moses wasn't the only writer or writing that survived the ancient near east culture of Mesopotamia. There was a way they wrote and communicate wisdom.

Serpent was used in their culture as symbolic when communicating. The same way as tortoise was used in several African folklore to explain ancient wisdom. This was how the ancient communicate wisdom.

A man call a Wiseman in ancient world is one who make use of his environment and things around to unravel wisdom and events.

Hence you will see this a lot in Moses writing.

Gen 49:17 KJV -
Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward

Here he used serpent to represent a man. A figurative expression. That was how Moses wrote as a Wiseman in his days.

So, if you read the Bible together you will find out yourself that the serpent in Genesis 3 is simply the devil.

So, read again that account of Genesis 3 for proper explanation.

After all this front and back explanation, you still did not answer the simple question sincerely.

Let me ask you again Sir, in case you forgot the main question while explaining irrelevant things,

So are you telling me it was not a serpent that spoke (according to your Bible) to Eve in the garden of Eden? It was something else?

Workch:
There's no belief in science, that's where you are taking this to and it won't get there. I have been doing science for 13years and I'm confident that beliefs don't work here. Whatever belief you have, you got to drop it in science then go back to it when you are done.

Hypotheses are not beliefs in science. Just take it or leave it.
You guys like pointless arguments alot on this forum

Why do you keep doing this workch? You keep saying "you guys", as if you can't see the individual! Perhaps you don't see or something, or how can I repeatedly be referring to believing Adam as an ignorant stupid slave, and then claim one must believe instead of actually opening ones own eyes and other senses to check and see for for oneself? Is open your eyes and senses not the very first step in science? Can one do science without opening one's eyes to actually look and see? Can you not apply your 13 years of science instead of stupidly believing without actually checking your hypothesis? Do I need to post links of posts of mine where I claim believing without checking or observing, as you'd say, is ignorant and stupid?

The imaginary Adam we read about believed without testing if his beliefs were true or not, and that's why he remained stupid and ignorant and enslaved in the Garden of Eden. Eve, on the other hand, did science to check the hypothesis that states: "on the day that you eat you shall surely die". We shall consider what she discovered on testing once we get over your "you guys" hypothesis!

A hypothesis is not a belief. A belief is an untested hypothesis however. It's like hypothesising that [i]I. If we find the edge of earth, then it means that earth is flat (independent variable)[/i], and then not II. The higher the altitude we travel, the likely that we see that earth is flat (dependent variable), but instead believing the earth is flat. If buda does that with anything, and I mean anything at all, including ignorantly assuming anything about you without first checking, please command buda to shoot buda dead, because that buda does not deserve to live!

Please know that if I build a bridge on a belief that it would stand and span where I'm building it, I would not now be retired and enjoying what I got paid for building bridges! No one would have paid me to build an ordinary foot path on some stupid ignorant untested belief or an untested hypothesis!

Below is my response to a person who thinks one should believe physics. It might help you understand better. And I've added a link explaining how and why I think believing almost anything without bothering to ask and seek and knock is just dumb!

Do let know me please if you can see, though I can bet my very last pound that the fact I've written it in religionese would likely blind you!

https://www.nairaland.com/5123700/disbelieve-know

budaatum:


Why do you keep doing this workch? You keep saying "you guys", as if you can't see the individual! Perhaps you don't see or something, or how can I repeatedly be referring to believing Adam as an ignorant stupid slave, and then claim one must believe instead of actually opening ones own eyes and other senses to check and see for for oneself? Is open your eyes and senses not the very first step in science? Can one do science without opening one's eyes to actually look and see? Can you not apply your 13 years of science instead of stupidly believing without actually checking your hypothesis? Do I need to post links of posts of mine where I claim believing without checking or observing, as you'd say, is ignorant and stupid?

The imaginary Adam we read about believed without testing if his beliefs were true or not, and that's why he remained stupid and ignorant and enslaved in the Garden of Eden. Eve, on the other hand, did science to check the hypothesis that states: "on the day that you eat you shall surely die". We shall consider what she discovered on testing once we get over your "you guys" hypothesis!

A hypothesis is not a belief. A belief is an untested hypothesis however. It's like hypothesising that [i]I. If we find the edge of earth, then it means that earth is flat (independent variable)[/i], and then not II. The higher the altitude we travel, the likely that we see that earth is flat (dependent variable), but instead believing the earth is flat. If buda does that with anything, and I mean anything at all, including ignorantly assuming anything about you without first checking, please command buda to shoot buda dead, because that buda does not deserve to live!

Please know that if I build a bridge on a belief that it would stand and span where I'm building it, I would not now be retired and enjoying what I got paid for building bridges! No one would have paid me to build an ordinary foot path on some stupid ignorant untested belief or an untested hypothesis!

Below is my response to a person who thinks one should believe physics. It might help you understand better. And I've added a link explaining how and why I think believing almost anything without bothering to ask and seek and knock is just dumb!

Do let know me please if you can see, though I can bet my very last pound that the fact I've written it in religionese would likely blind you!

https://www.nairaland.com/5123700/disbelieve-know

Dude, I am not in the mood for unnecessary arguments, especially about scientific methods that I understand.

Just believe whatever you want. It really doesn’t change anything man.

Cheers

Workch:

If you don’t make a prediction, there will be no guide, that’s not a belief.

I agree.

If I make a prediction and do not then go and check if my prediction is true or false and I believe either way, I, buda, is very very stupid and dumb and ignorant!

Hope that's clear enough.

budaatum:


I agree.

If I make a prediction and do not then go and check if my prediction is true or false and I believe either way, I, buda, is very very stupid and dumb and ignorant!

Hope that's clear enough.

You are proudly scientifically illiterate.

You don’t know jack how it works and you don’t want to learn. I pity you

Workch:
Dude, I am not in the mood for unnecessary arguments, especially about scientific methods that I understand.

Just believe whatever you want. It really doesn’t change anything man.

Cheers

That's the thing with you. You claim to know about the scientific method but probably only apply it in your profession.

Please stop insulting buda by claiming buda believes! Only stupid people believe what they can't bother to do the work to check if their beliefs are true or not. And if they did check, or observe as you'd say, or apply the scientific method to their ignorant belief, they'd stop believing and instead actually know!

P.s. Do know that I am not responding only because of you. Just that you've provided a board for me to write what I'm certain others would read too.

Workch:
You are proudly scientifically illiterate.

You don’t know jack how it works and you don’t want to learn. I pity you

Well, I guess you can pity me as I go sit on the bridges I built with my "how it works", and not with stupid beliefs.

budaatum:


That's the thing with you. You claim to know about the scientific method but probably only apply it in your profession.

Please stop insulting buda by claiming buda believes! Only stupid people believe what they can't bother to do the work to check if their beliefs are true or not. And if they did check, or observe as you'd say, or apply the scientific method to their ignorant belief, they'd stop believing and instead actually know!

P.s. Do know that I am not responding only because of you. Just that you've provided a board for me to write what I'm certain others would read too.

lol

budaatum:


Well, I guess you can pity me as I go sit on the bridges I built with my "how it works", and not with stupid beliefs.

alphaNomega:


This is why you like difficult and confusing things. Sufferhead life. It is people like you that make life difficult.

I guess this is the reason you ask questions like someone in children church. The reason you enjoy story than the wisdom behind it. You just needed someone who will rub your back and give you moonlight story. You need to grow beyond that. Life isn't in such stories but wisdom.

alphaNomega:

After all this front and back explanation, you still did not answer the simple question sincerely.

Let me ask you again Sir, in case you forgot the main question while explaining irrelevant things,

So are you telling me it was not a serpent that spoke (according to your Bible) to Eve in the garden of Eden? It was something else?

It's still the same problem.

Having answered you twice, you still can't read properly to see. I guess you were taught to use pictures than read words. Thus is why your mind is filled with a serpent because all you seems to understand is to watch it as movies or story book.


Let me help you here.

Firstly, you need to develop the attitude of reading well. It comes from determination and will prevent you from open disgrace. You must read and read properly. As it stands now, I will advise you to always read a paragraph 3 times before moving to the next. This will help you to know how to read well and comprehend.


Secondly, stop looking for yes or no answer. You can leave that for nursery students. It's kids that ask yes or no.

Can I take the milk dad? Yes or No?
. That's how kids talk.

For you, you need to to seek for explanation to know how things are and works. You need to stand in knowledge not in stories. This is how you will improve.

It doesn't represent you well that I have to be answering one question 2times and yet you still can't read it.

Now, go and take up your Bible, calm your mind, open to Genesis 3, get a Strong concordance and trace how Moses used serpent all through his writing. Also take out time to read the Bible not what the remnant of wrong teaching in your mind.

You will be fine if you do the above well and twice.

hupernikao:


I guess this is the reason you ask questions like someone in children church. The reason you enjoy story than the wisdom behind it. You just needed someone who will rub your back and give you moonlight story. You need to grow beyond that. Life isn't in such stories but wisdom.





It's still the same problem.

Having answered you twice, you still can't read properly to see. I guess you were taught to use pictures than read words. Thus is why your mind is filled with a serpent because all you seems to understand is to watch it as movies or story book.


Let me help you here.

Firstly, you need to develop the attitude of reading well. It comes from determination and will prevent you from open disgrace. You must read and read properly. As it stands now, I will advise you to always read a paragraph 3 times before moving to the next. This will help you to know how to read well and comprehend.


Secondly, stop looking for yes or no answer. You can leave that for nursery students. It's kids that as yes or no.

Can I take the milk dad? Yes or No?
. That's how kids talk.

For you, you need to to seek for explanation to know how things are and works. You need to stand in knowledge not in stories. This is how you will improve.

It doesn't represent you well that I have to be answering one question 2times and yet you still can't read it.

Now, go and take up your Bible, calm your mind, open to Genesis 3, get a Strong concordance and trace how Moses used serpent all through his writing. Also take out time to read the Bible not what the remnant of wrong teaching in your mind.

You will be fine if you do the above well and twice.

In your bid to misinterprete a fake Bible story, twice, you have refused to answer the question. I am limiting our discussion to this one case in the garden of Eden story because I know if you do not understand this one, you sure as hell cannot understand the rest of it.

I would not stop you from believing a book that says a serpent spoke to a woman in a garden and a donkey spoke to its rider. You are the one with a childish intellect for believing such a book.

alphaNomega:


In your bid to misinterprete a fake Bible story, twice, you have refused to answer the question. I am limiting our discussion to this one case in the garden of Eden story because I know if you do not understand this one, you sure as hell cannot understand the rest of it.

I would not stop you from believing a book that says a serpent spoke to a woman in a garden and a donkey spoke to its rider. You are the one with a childish intellect for believing such a book.

You are still in the same condition. You are a bad reader.. And I am not surprised the state you are now with your unbelief. It's a product of very poor reading and erroneous doctrine.

I am sure you read animal farm book and still chat up George Orwell asking him what does he mean by horse talking.

You should know how you will feel if you ask such question in public. Like I told you in my first response. Don't loose your literacy education when reading the Bible.

Don't read "God rest" and be looking for his mat or bed

Don't read "God visited them" and be looking for the Toyota car or his itinerary.

Don't read "serpent said" and be searching around for a snake that can talk.

These are product of poor learning and education.


But I am not surprised. When you read an ancient book with a millennia mindset, this is what you become.

Someday you will ask, why there was no rocket in the Bible but horses for war.

You need proper scolding to get your literacy mindset back.

hupernikao:


You are still in the same condition. You are a bad reader.. And I am not surprised the state you are now with your unbelief. It's a product of very poor reading and erroneous doctrine.

I am sure you read animal farm book and still chat up George Orwell asking him what does he mean by horse talking.

You should know how you will feel if you ask such question in public. Like I told you in my first response. Don't loose your literacy education when reading the Bible.

Don't read "God rest" and be looking for his mat or bed

Don't read "God visited them" and be looking for the Toyota car or his itinerary.

Don't read "serpent said" and be searching around for a snake that can talk.

These are product of poor learning and education.


But I am not surprised. When you read an ancient book with a millennia mindset, this is what you become.

Someday you will ask, why there was no rocket in the Bible but horses for war.

You need proper scolding to get your literacy mindset back.

Third time is a charm, you have still not answered the question.

Anyway, just know the Bible is filled with false stories and as such, it can never be the truth. I feel pity for those who take the book serious.

alphaNomega:


In your bid to misinterprete a fake Bible story, twice, you have refused to answer the question. I am limiting our discussion to this one case in the garden of Eden story because I know if you do not understand this one, you sure as hell cannot understand the rest of it.

I would not stop you from believing a book that says a serpent spoke to a woman in a garden and a donkey spoke to its rider. You are the one with a childish intellect for believing such a book.

Believing a book is not the only option. One can also try to understand it too. Animal Farm is not about a farm of animals after all. And not many believe an Okonkwo slaughtering Ikemefuna made things to fall apart!

P.s. I'm jumping in here. No, I have not followed your discussion from the start.

hupernikao:


You are still in the same condition. You are a bad reader.. And I am not surprised the state you are now with your unbelief. It's a product of very poor reading and erroneous doctrine.

I am sure you read animal farm book and still chat up George Orwell asking him what does he mean by horse talking.

Hmm. I think you are in error in condemning his unbelief.

If he believed a serpent truly spoke to Eve, I put it to you that he wouldn't understand anything at all, and would be like a naked ignorant enslaved Adam, naked in a Garden of Eden.

budaatum:


Hmm. I think you are in error in condemning his unbelief.

If he believed a serpent truly spoke to Eve, I put it to you that he wouldn't understand anything at all, and would be like a naked ignorant enslaved Adam, naked in a Garden of Eden.

I guess that is what he believed.

And actually, I ain't judging him, I am only pointing him to the fact that his current decision is based on wrong knowledge.

budaatum:


Believing a book is not the only option. One can also try to understand it too. Animal Farm is not about a farm of animals after all. And not many believe an Okonkwo slaughtering Ikemefuna made things to fall apart!

P.s. I'm jumping in here. No, I have not followed your discussion from the start.

When you understand the Bible, you will realise its stories are fake

alphaNomega:
When you understand the Bible, you will realise its stories are fake

That's like claiming, if I understand Things Fall Apart, I'd realise its a fake story.

Is Things Fall Apart fake, alpha?

Think carefully now before responding.

budaatum:


That's like claiming, if I understand Things Fall Apart, I'd realise its a fake story.

Is Things Fall Apart fake, alpha?

Think carefully now before responding.

What he's trying to say is that those things never really happened

Crystyano:

What he's trying to say is that those things never really happened

Could you tell him for me please that buda never said they did happen. Least not all of it, like the Garden of Eden and quite a lot more, but that does not mean they are fake.

He would not after all claim Things Fall Apart is fake, I hope.

budaatum:


Could you tell him for me please that buda never said they did happen. Least not all of it, like the Garden of Eden and quite a lot more, but that does not mean they are fake.

He would not after all claim Things Fall Apart is fake, I hope.

Tell him what you consider a fake book

Tell him what makes a book fake to you

Crystyano:

Tell him what you consider a fake book

Tell him what makes a book fake to you

I don't really know what makes a book fake Cryst. I mean, perhaps if I copy Things Fall Apart and add, written by budaatum, that might be fake, but if I copy Things Fall Apart as written by Chinua Achebe and and say it was written by Chinua Achebe, it would not be fake, it would be a copy.

He'll have to educate me I guess. buda is ignorant on this 'fake book' thing.

budaatum:


I don't really know what makes a book fake Cryst. I mean, perhaps if I copy Things Fall Apart and add, written by budaatum, that might be fake, but if I copy Things Fall Apart as written by Chinua Achebe and and say it was written by Chinua Achebe, it would not be fake, it would be a copy.

He'll have to educate me I guess. buda is ignorant on this 'fake book' thing.

Then ,tell him what makes a story fake to you

Crystyano:


Then ,tell him what makes a story fake to you

I can't really see how any story can be fake. I mean, I can tell you a story about a trip I made day before yesterday when I landed on the moon and ate mooncheese with moonians. We all drank moonshine and got moondrunk and we fell asleep on moonbeds and woke up at moontime, after which I got in my moonbuggy and transported myself back to earth with some moongold.

Would you call my story fake?

budaatum:


That's like claiming, if I understand Things Fall Apart, I'd realise its a fake story.

Is Things Fall Apart fake, alpha?

Think carefully now before responding.

Things fall apart is not a religious text. It is a work of fiction. And yes, it is fake! Fake also means NOT REAL

Christians claim the Bible is the word of God and I am telling you when you understand that Bible, you will realise it is fake.

budaatum:


Could you tell him for me please that buda never said they did happen. Least not all of it, like the Garden of Eden and quite a lot more, but that does not mean they are fake.

He would not after all claim Things Fall Apart is fake, I hope.

So why is the Bible filled with stories of things that did not happen? Is that not what you call a lie?

You religious folk never cease to amuse me

alphaNomega:
So why is the Bible filled with stories of things that did not happen? Is that not what you call a lie?

You religious folk never cease to amuse me

Same reason Aesop wrote fables and Chinua Achebe wrote Things Fall Apart. So you may read and reason and learn.

I guess the assumption is you'd use your brain instead of believing like a "religious folk".

alphaNomega:


Things fall apart is not a religious text. It is a work of fiction. And yes, it is fake! Fake also means NOT REAL

Christians claim the Bible is the word of God and I am telling you when you understand that Bible, you will realise it is fake.

And have you bothered to ask Christians what they mean by their claim?

A story is not fake! You after all would not claim "thou shalt not kill", "thou shalt not commit murder", "thou shalt not covet thy neighbours goods", is fake. Or would you?

In fact, have you read the Bible yourself ? You sound like you never bothered!

budaatum:


Same reason Aesop wrote fables and Chinua Achebe wrote Things Fall Apart. So you may read and reason and learn.

I guess the assumption is you'd use your brain instead of believing like a "religious folk".

But Aesop and China Achebe did not tell you their book is the key to life. They did not say in their books the things you should do and not to do to have everlasting life. None of them asked you to worship and make sacrifices to the characters in their story.