AntiChristian:


Where did Jesus call himself God without ambiguity?

Your Bible was translated to English. It wasn't English!

So where does the dubious " begotten son" come from if father was metaphorical?

AntiChristian:


"So where does the dubious " begotten son..."

This is another wide topic of discussion which I'll like to separate from this post

MaxInDHouse:


Instead of beating about the bush what you need is try to be consistent in your research!

Trying to create an argument simply because i told you the truth about your God is childishness.

I just told the OP that it's wrong to WORSHIP Jesus, we are asked to LISTEN to him not WORSHIP {Matthew 17:5} Jesus himself declared that the only true God is his father! John 17:3

So whether Jesus is angel or not the fact remains that he is not a human from the beginning neither was he the Almighty who sent himself!

KNOWMORE56:

the Father is not angry with us who are worshipping Jesus?

KNOWMORE56:


"I just told the OP that it's wrong to WORSHIP Jesus, we are asked to LISTEN to him not WORSHIP {Matthew 17:5} Jesus himself declared that the only true God is his father! John 17:3"

He ( the Father) said we should listen to the Son and we should also worship Him:

*. Hebrews 1:6 " KJV:And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God WORSHIP him ."

KNOWMORE56:


*. 1 Peter 3:22 "KJV: (Jesus Christ) Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. "
or
"angels and authorities and powers being made WORSHIPERS unto him."

KNOWMORE56:


JESUS Himself said we should worship/serve Him. That the Father will bless us for worshipping Him ( Jesus)

*. John 12:26 "KJV: If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man SERVE ME, him will my Father honour ."

KNOWMORE56:


the Father is not angry with us who are worshipping Jesus?

MaxInDHouse:


And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3 Holy Bible

The Holy Bible says there's just one only true God who sent Jesus! Mark 12:29

Janosky:

Psalm 45:6-7 is the original copy of Hebrew 1:8.
Psalm 45:6 ,Masoretic Text "the throne given of God"
Psalms 45:6, Catholic Church New Jerusalem Bible/The Message Bible, the Catholic Pope knows that your quote of Trinitarian Hebrew 1:8 is a FRAUD.

Na your Trinity mentors /3 deities slaves dubiously add "Worshippers" @ 1 Peter 3:22.

Matthew 20:28 Jesus SERVE others.

Oga, your quote of John 12:26 is deceptive.

The Word "SERVE" is "minister" @ John 12:26 & Matthew 20:28.

I have no problem with you LYING in your house.
But, STOP LYING repeatedly to the public

Oga,Why do you love to prove your disobedience to Jesus Christ instructions @ Mark 12:29-30 & Matthew 4:10?
"Worship only his Father and God.".

KNOWMORE56:
I've not seen any man said there are more than one true God...

Janosky:

Psalm 45:6-7 is the original copy of Hebrew 1:8.
Psalm 45:6 ,Masoretic Text "the throne given of God"
Psalms 45:6, Catholic Church New Jerusalem Bible/The Message Bible, the Catholic Pope knows that your quote of Trinitarian Hebrew 1:8 is a FRAUD.


Na your Trinity mentors /3 deities slaves dubiously add "Worshippers" @ 1 Peter 3:22.

Matthew 20:28 Jesus SERVE others.
Oga, your quote of John 12:26 is deceptive.
The Word "SERVE" is "minister" @ John 12:26 & Matthew 20:28.
I have no problem with you LYING in your house.
But, STOP LYING repeatedly to the public.

Oga,Why do you love to prove your disobedience to Jesus Christ instructions @ Mark 12:29-30 & Matthew 4:10?
"Worship only his Father and God."
.

KNOWMORE56:

I think I have to know your own definition and explanation of what/who is God.
Possibly it may have different meaning in your religion.

Your religion definition and explanation of father is:
"When you talk about father, then we should have a mother and children.
Then we known copulation and fertilisation."

But the definition and explanation of father (in my religion) goes beyond that;

" Father of all means owner of all:
*. Ephesians 4:6 " KJV: ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Father of all means creator of all:
*. Malachi 2:10 "KJV: HAVE WE NOT ALL ONE FATHER? HATH NOT ONE GOD CREATED US? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

Yes, from Hebrew and Greek to English language and it maintains it meaning. For example, Hebrew: אלהים
Transliteration: 'ĕlôhîym
Pronunciation: el-o-heem'
Translated 2,346 times to mean God in the King James Version of the Bible...

Now you can do your research on it to know if there is anything wrong with the transliteration and the translation...

God brings things to be (cause things to exist) without things, in other words: bringing something out of nothing.

Bring things to be = father. Since your religion also agree that God created Himself out of nothing,
I do not see the need for wife before He can father a child....

He has always brought to be without resources, so to say...

But it is important for us to know that He is the resources by Himself....

in the same way, He's the Husband (the Creator) and the Wife (the Resources) at the same time! The human His children,

is that ok, or you are still having difficulties?

KNOWMORE56:


When the Bible says Jesus is the ONLY begotten (produced/created) Son;

it means the rest of human are not begotten (created/produced)...

The word opposite of begotten son is adopted son...

This should give us a clear understanding of the area this BEGOTTEN SON is going - it's in regards to the salvation plans for humanity; all other saved human beings are ADOPTED SONS:

Jesus is the only begotten son:

*. John 3:14 "KJV:And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, , the glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father ,) full of grace and truth."

16 "KJV:For God so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

18 "KJV: No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son , which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

*. Hebrews 11:17 "KJV:By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, "

ONLY means NO OTHER one!

other human beings ( especially the saved from sin through Jesus) are adopted sons:

*. Romans 8:15 "KJV:For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

*. Romans 8:23 "KJV:And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the ADOPTION , to wit, the redemption of our body ."

*. Romans 9:4 "KJV:Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the ADOPTION , and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"

". Galatians 4:5 "KJV: To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the ADOPTION of sons "

*. Ephesians 1:5 "KJV: Having predestinated us unto the ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself , according to the good pleasure of his will,"

the unsaved are the children of the Devil:

*. 1 John 3:10 "KJV:In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil : whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

So while we may agree that Jesus as human being is produced/made/created....

*. John 1:14 " KJV: And the Word was MADE flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

"And the Word was MADE flesh,...
or
"and the Word was PRODUCED flesh,..."
or
"and the Word was CREATED flesh,..."

Surely, Jesus as God Almighty/the eternal WORD created Himself!

In other words,
In regards to creation, Jesus is the ONLY Creator while human beings are created by Him...

*. Genesis 1:27 "KJV: So GOD CREATED MAN in his own image, in the image of GOD CREATED he HIM ; MALE and FEMALE created he them ."

*. John 1:3 "KJV: All things were MADE by him (Jesus); and without him was not any thing made that was Made.

When we talk about redemption of human beings from Satan and sin, Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON....
The rest of human beings ( especially the saved from sin through Jesus Christ) are adopted (not created)!

Any confusion or confession?

KNOWMORE56:


When the Bible says Jesus is the ONLY begotten (produced/created) Son;
D

KNOWMORE56:


it means the rest of human are not begotten (created/produced)...

KNOWMORE56:


The word opposite of begotten son is adopted son...

This should give us a clear understanding of the area this BEGOTTEN SON is going - it's in regards to the salvation plans for humanity; all other saved human beings are ADOPTED SONS:

Jesus is the only begotten son:

*. John 3:14 "KJV:And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, , the glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father ,) full of grace and truth."

16 "KJV:For God so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

18 "KJV: No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son , which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

*. Hebrews 11:17 "KJV:By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, "

ONLY means NO OTHER one!
D

KNOWMORE56:


other human beings ( especially the saved from sin through Jesus) are adopted sons:

*. Romans 8:15 "KJV:For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

*. Romans 8:23 "KJV:And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the ADOPTION , to wit, the redemption of our body ."

*. Romans 9:4 "KJV:Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the ADOPTION , and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"

". Galatians 4:5 "KJV: To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the ADOPTION of sons "

*. Ephesians 1:5 "KJV: Having predestinated us unto the ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself , according to the good pleasure of his will,"

KNOWMORE56:


the unsaved are the children of the Devil:

*. 1 John 3:10 "KJV:In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil : whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

So while we may agree that Jesus as human being is produced/made/created....

*. John 1:14 " KJV: And the Word was MADE flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

"And the Word was MADE flesh,...
or
"and the Word was PRODUCED flesh,..."
or
"and the Word was CREATED flesh,..."

Surely, Jesus as God Almighty/the eternal WORD created Himself!

In other words,
In regards to creation, Jesus is the ONLY Creator while human beings are created by Him...
D

Jesus Christ says himself no be the Creator, Matthew 19:4-5 na correct science?
Hebrew 1:2 na rocket science?
Colossians 1:15-16 na rocket science?

Oga say Jesus their 2nd Person na Almighty God.
Trinity shege

KNOWMORE56:

*. Genesis 1:27 "KJV: So GOD CREATED MAN in his own image, in the image of GOD CREATED he HIM ; MALE and FEMALE created he them ."

*. John 1:3 "KJV: All things were MADE by him (Jesus); and without him was not any thing made that was Made.

KNOWMORE56:


When we talk about redemption of human beings from Satan and sin, Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON....

KNOWMORE56:


The rest of human beings ( especially the saved from sin through Jesus Christ) are adopted (not created)!
In regards to creation, Jesus is the ONLY Creator while human beings are created by Him...
Any confusion or confession?

AntiChristian:


The first definition of begotten is siring i.e. (especially of a man) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
"they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen".

If you are using the second meaning of "cause; bring about" then Adam, Eve and even all humans were begotten.
So Jesus is never the only begotten son anywhere!

It's either no one is begotten or everyone is begotten!

AntiChristian:


Mind you, i think your translators are now wise thrashing the word " begotten" away from the more recent Bibles translations.

To beget is an animalistic character.

Just like sons of God having sex with daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4 to beget giants!

AntiChristian:


Where did Jesus call himself God without ambiguity?

Your Bible was translated to English. It wasn't English!



So where does the dubious " begotten son" come from if father was metaphorical?

KNOWMORE56:


I've not seen any man said there are more than one true God...

Trinity is three Persons in one God...
The Word is life...
The Spirit is life...
The Word is the Spirit...
The Spirit is God....
God is the Spirit....

These we see from the Word bellow:

*. John 1: 4 " KJV:In him (the Word) was LIFE ; and the life was the light of men."

*. John 6:63 "KJV:It is the spirit that quickeneth (gives life); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit , and they are life."

*. Acts 17:25 "KJV:Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he (God) giveth to all LIFE, and breath, and all things;"

*. John 4: 24 " KJV: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

*. 2 Corinthians 3: 6 " KJV:Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth LIFE ."

*. Colossians 3:4 " KJV:When Christ, who is our LIFE, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

*. 1 John 1:2 " KJV: (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal LIFE, which was with the Father , and was manifested unto us"

*. 1 John 5:20 " KJV:And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal LIFE "
This is the true God, and eternal LIFE

MaxInDHouse:

OBEISANCE and WORSHIP as i said earlier correlates but has different meaning.
OBEISANCE was translated in many verses of the KJV as WORSHIP because the translators are TRINITARIANS so they based their interpretation on preconceived thought of the TRINITY.


Since you understood the scriptures i hope you and your fellow members are doing what Jesus who was called "CHRIST" commissioned {Matthew 10:1-15 28:19-20} which led the inhabitants of Antioch to call them "CHRISTIANS"? Act 11:26
If you're up and doing in this regard more grease to your elbow Sir!

Obeisance means obedience to someone

OBEISANCE and WORSHIP as i said earlier correlates but has different meaning.

KJV as WORSHIP because the translators are TRINITARIANS so they based their interpretation on preconceived thought of the TRINITY.

MaxInDHouse:


Ordinarily people can't IDENTIFY those whom the father is angry with until judgement day! Matthew 7:21-23
But Jesus has given us a clue "By their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16-18} so if you're sure you know the FRUIT expected from faithful servants of God continue!

Emusan:


They believe Jesus is "A GOD", you should have asked him if Jesus is a TRUE GOD or A FALSE GOD?

JustExposeIt:


He said 'me and my father are one', and also said 'when you see me, you have seen the father'.

KNOWMORE56:


he will then type " worship your God, let's worship our own God"

Emusan:


They believe Jesus is "A GOD", you should have asked him if Jesus is a TRUE GOD or A FALSE GOD?
D

MaxInDHouse:


Ordinarily people can't IDENTIFY those whom the father is angry with until judgement day! Matthew 7:21-23
But Jesus has given us a clue "By their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16-18} so if you're sure you know the FRUIT expected from faithful servants of God continue!

Janosky:

Psalm 45:6-7 is the original copy of Hebrew 1:8.
Psalm 45:6 ,Masoretic Text "the throne given of God"
Psalms 45:6, Catholic Church New Jerusalem Bible/The Message Bible, the Catholic Pope knows that your quote of Trinitarian Hebrew 1:8 is a FRAUD.

Na your Trinity mentors /3 deities slaves dubiously add "Worshippers" @ 1 Peter 3:22.

Matthew 20:28 Jesus SERVE others.
Oga, your quote of John 12:26 is deceptive.
The Word "SERVE" is "minister" @ John 12:26 & Matthew 20:28.
I have no problem with you LYING in your house.
But, STOP LYING repeatedly to the public.

Oga,Why do you love to prove your disobedience to Jesus Christ instructions @ Mark 12:29-30 & Matthew 4:10?
"Worship only his Father and God."
.

AntiChristian:


He is the uncreated Creator who is one (indivisible), who begets not nor is He begotten and who has none comparable or coequal to Him.
(The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks)

When your Bible says Honor your father and mother (Exo 20:12, Ephesians 6:2, etc; the "father" referred to was definitely not God. So "Father" therefore has more than one meaning in the Bible.

Elohim can be used for Angel, Satan, Idols, humans,

Elohim as God aka Yahweh
Take note that in Gen 1:1 In the Beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and earth.

Used as gods
Now I know that the LORD (Yahweh) is greater than all other gods (Elohim), for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly.” Exo 18:11

“Whoever sacrifices to any god (Elohim) other than the LORD (Yahweh) must be destroyed. Exo 22:20

As an Angel (Cos i don't think Jacob can fight God.)
“Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have won.” Gen 32:28

Humans are God (Elohim)
Then the LORD (Yahweh) said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. Exo 7:1

“I said, ‘You are “gods" (Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.’ Psalm 82:6

This can be true.

My religion does not agree at all.

We don't use father for our God! Father is father! Mother is Mother! God is different entirely!

AntiChristian:


The first definition of begotten is siring i.e. (especially of a man) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
"they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen".

If you are using the second meaning of "cause; bring about" then Adam, Eve and even all humans were begotten.
So Jesus is never the only begotten son anywhere!

It's either no one is begotten or everyone is begotten!

Mind you, i think your translators are now wise thrashing the word " begotten" away from the more recent Bibles translations.

To beget is an animalistic character.

Just like sons of God having sex with daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4 to beget giants!

AntiChristian:
All this extrapolations just to derive that Jesus is God.

A God would never be afraid to tell His creations whom He is.

Jesus can't even say he's God! He never said so.

Kobojunkie:
He did say it, however He did in such a way that only those paying attention would get it. In much the same way that He did a lot else about the Kingdom of God. It is hidden in plane sight.

He told parables about how the understanding is given but the enemy comes and steals it away from those who are distracted.

AntiChristian:
Where did he say it without ambiguity?
Yahweh proclaimed himself several times in the old testament.

Jesus even proclaimed him too saying ' Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one as the first and most important commandment.

Why didn't Jesus clear the air there and then?

More so, Jesus was speaking in an unclear way so that many will enter hell.

JustExposeIt:


He said 'me and my father are one', and also said 'when you see me, you have seen the father'.

Janosky:

Everyone is begotten by God through Creation.
God is the Father to whom everyone owes the name they bear, Ephesians 3:14-15.
Trinitarians confused the meaning of begotten by falsely claiming "Jesus is not created but generated"
Whereas, "Generated is synonymous with "Created"
How ever, "Only begotten" is applied to Isaac &
Jesus Christ @ John 3:16 & Hebrew 11:17-19.
That expression "Only begotten" refers to special privilege of Favor given to only Isaac among all Abraham's offspring.
Jesus Christ is given the special, unique favor of sitting at God's right hand in heaven and sit on his Father's throne, Revelation 3:21 & Acts 2:32-36.


Oga, no be so.
God begotted man by Creation not reproduction.
Psalm 90:2," God born the mountains".
God was never pregnant.Shey you understand?

Kobojunkie:
What part of Truth is hidden in plane sight do you not understand? Read through the Gospel with a heart intended to learn and you will find it too.

Jesus Christ never spoke in an unclear way. After all, I am able, using basic human language comprehension skills I was taught as a child, to understand Him as clearly as I do today without resorting to using any of the special interpretation magic which is typical with religious folks. He did say that the Kingdom of God is for those who think as Children..

AntiChristian:


Talks are too much!

Quote the verse(s) where he called himself God or told people to worship him as God in clear terms?

Secondly the proofs are as seen below:
When he (Jesus) was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that," 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'
Mark 4:10-12

How is this verse explained in relation to John 16:25?

"Though I have been speaking figuratively (paroimia), a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. John 16:25

Why wasn't Jesus speaking in a normal and clear way all the time? Why did Jesus then go and say that he won't 'use this kind of language'?

To purposely make people not understand him so that they won't repent and be forgiven.

KNOWMORE56:


"But Jesus has given us a clue"

I'm not sure of what you mean by this statement...

So when Jesus Christ said the Father will honour those who serve Him (Jesus), it's not a clue on how the judgement is going to be?

*. John 12:26 "KJV: If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man SERVE ME, HIM WILL MY FATHER HONOUR ."