Asalam alaykum

I think it must be near two years since I posted here. I paused posting because I got more preoccupied with life. I planned on returning to complete some unfinished threads here but not this soon. Anyway, I was forced out because the Muslim community is making headline again, and as before, it is for a bad reason.

I just want to share my thoughts on the recent incident at Sokoto state, but rather than spill it directly, I'll do so by responding to one of the current post from this section on the front page.

https://www.nairaland.com/7128270/these-red-lines-must-not

1. Insulting Allāh سبحانه وتعالى: An attack on Allāh whom Muslims worship is an attempt to ridicule the basis of their existence and faith. Passing derogatory remarks, making mockery of His names and Attributes, denying His Names and Attributes, comparing Him to His creatures, reducing Him to a mere entity, etc, are some of the things to avoid when describing Him. He is NOT an idol. He's not the Ka'abah that Muslims circumambulate during Tawāf. He is Allāh, to be described ONLY by the attributes that He has given Himself.

OK, so can we insult God? As in G O D, the creator of the universe in monotheistic religions? Pay attention to his language. He makes it sound like Allah is a sort of local or tribal god among Muslims, like Zeus was to the ancient Greeks and Shango is to Yoruba pagans. So, it's like if you insult the creator of the universe, Luk.gaf & his group of like minded Muslims don't care. It is only when you use the Arabic word, Allah, that he cares.

This is a very silly thing, since most Muslims will tell you that Allah is God, the creator of the universe. Allah is the Arabic word for God. In the Bible which Muslims recognize as previous revelations by Allah, there is no mention of "Allah," and what you will find there are non-Arabic terms for God like Yahweh or Elloi.

2. Desecrating the Qur'ān: The Qur'ān is NOT a creature of Allāh like us humans. It is the eternal word of Allāh, revealed to the Prophet ﷺ through Angel Jibrīl and preserved in its original form since its revelation till date by divine protection. It has not and CANNOT be corrupted in the least. Twisting its meaning, tearing it, burning it, stepping on it, denying its authenticity, etc as we have witnessed bigots do in the past is ridiculous and provocative.

This is bluffing. Empty bluffing. Nobody can tell whether the Qur'an has been corrupted or not. To do that, you'd have to have on one hand the original copy written by Muhammad or written or by his scribe under his dictation, and then have on the other hand today's copy to compare verse by verse.

As we don't have any extant copy from Muhammad for comparison, we can only make speculations, we can't certify or confirm. Hence when he states that "It has not & CANNOT be corrupted." This demonstrate profound ignorance and borderline stupidity at best.

Till date, there has been no copy of the complete Qur'an traceable to Muhammad. And among the parchments of Qur'an fragments we've uncovered from the late 7th, 8th & 9th century, some of them like the undertext of the Sanaa palimpsest presents significant variation from today's Qur'an.

3. Insulting the Messenger of Allāh ﷺ: In recent times, no personality: political or religious has been attacked unjustly and without provocation as Muhammad ﷺ.

OK, what is this -

"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) as saying: Allah's curse to be on the Jews, they made the graves of their Prophets mosques."

How do you think Christians and Jews will take this? You expect them to respect a man that addresses them this way? Is the Prophet's statement not provocative here?

There are many provocative things that Muhammad did according to your traditional Muslim sources. So, I'm sorry but I don't think anyone should be forced to respect Muhammad. Respect is something that is earned, not demanded.

Prophet Muhammad ﷺ is the symbol of Islām and its most revered figure.

OK.

He's NOT the originator or founder of Islām as wrongly asserted by some prominent Orientalists. In fact, there's NOTHING like Mohammedanism in the Islamic literature. Prophet Muhammad ﷺ was sent to continue the propagation of messages of the previous prophets before him.

Alright, how does anyone manage to contradict themselves so much in the same paragraph. There is nothing like Mohammedanism but Muhammad(not Allah, apparently) is the symbol and most revered figure of Islam. You will not kill if anyone insult Jesus or Abraham but you will kill for Mohammed.

This is Mohammedanism and the orientalists were spot on.

4. Ridiculing the Companions of the Prophet ﷺ: These were men and women who shed tears, blood and sweat to protect the nascent faith in its advent, learn its principles and practices, preserve and pass it to posterity. The Sahābah represent the best generation of people after the Prophet ﷺ. They recorded and reported the Qur'ān as well as the Prophet's Traditions which form the basis of the Sharī'ah. Thus, doubting their credibility and ridiculing them in whatever form is tantamount to uprooting Islām from its very foundation.

The sahabas didn't think of themselves this way. The sahabas fought and disputed among themselves after Muhammad. Just read Muslim history from the Battle of Camel till the Massacre of Karbala. If you want to call for respect for the sahabas, I get it. But by dubbing them the best generation after Muhammad, you're setting a low bar for Muslims.

The sahabas invaded Persia and other empires they had no business with, cementing Islam's image as a militarily aggressive religion. Even on an individual level, the sahabas were often entitled(like Abu Bakr), aggressive(like Umar), cunning & deceitful(like Abu Huraira) individuals.

So, this entire post which makes front page is abysmal. It seem catered to kindergartens children or low IQ Muslims who would rather learn Islam from quaternary sources like the Luk.gaf instead of delving into the primary sources for themselves. And what makes it worse is the timing.

A young woman was lynched to death for insulting Islam earlier this week. And today, Luk.gaf springs to the frontpage with one post were he tries to damage control for the Muslim community and another post where he exposes his apathy for the victim by speaking about "Red Lines" that musn't be crossed.

Traditionally, in Islam, red lines are things like Idol worshiping, homicide, adultery. Luk.gaf never mention any, he just jumps to respect, respect and respect. Again, respect is something that is earned, not demanded. If you have to demand it, you don't deserve it.

Notice in the entirety of this post, he never once expressed horror or remorse that a young woman was killed. This is unfortunately the attitude of loads of Muslims. They condemned the manner Deborah was killed but they conclude she or anyone who insult the prophet deserves death.

To them the homicide itself is nothing. If you force these Muslims to do one; either kill an innocent man or insult the prophet. They'll kill the man. That's the level of mental derangement & religion induced psychopathy we're dealing with here.

I had this discussion with my own family. And not even one of them could bring themselves to say that it is too extreme to kill someone for insulting Muhammad whether the killing was by a street mob or authorized by a legal sharia court. They couldn't. It was a bitter pill for me.

So, in 2022, this many Muslims still think it is OK to kill someone for insulting their religion, even when they can neither prove the Qur'an is from God or unchanged. It is a terrible thing. And I think it is time to adopt a more drastic approach towards this problem.

You know, I look at Palestine, you have Arab Muslims bemoaning Israeli/Jewish occupation & oppression. I looked at Sweden last month, and you have Muslim immigrants protesting Islamophobia, racism and discrimination. And I'm starting to ask myself, "I'm suppose to empathize with these Muslims?"

I'm suppose to feel bad for and advocate on behalf of a group of people of whom 50 to 75 percent think it is OK to kill someone for insulting their religion?

They are all ISLAMIC TERRORIST using "redline" to justify killing of people who don't subscribe to their barbaric religion.

usermane:
Asalam alaykum

I think it must be near two years since I posted here. I paused posting because I got more preoccupied with life. I planned on returning to complete some unfinished threads here but not this soon. Anyway, I was forced out because the Muslim community is making headline again, and as before, it is for a bad reason.

I just want to share my thoughts on the recent incident at Sokoto state, but rather than spill it directly, I'll do so by responding to one of the current post from this section on the front page.

https://www.nairaland.com/7128270/these-red-lines-must-not



OK, so can we insult God? As in G O D, the creator of the universe in monotheistic religions? Pay attention to his language. He makes it sound like Allah is a sort of local or tribal god among Muslims, like Zeus was to the ancient Greeks and Shango is to Yoruba pagans. So, it's like if you insult the creator of the universe, Luk.gaf & his group of like minded Muslims don't care. It is only when you use the Arabic word, Allah, that he cares.

This is a very silly thing, since most Muslims will tell you that Allah is God, the creator of the universe. Allah is the Arabic word for God. In the Bible which Muslims recognize as previous revelations by Allah, there is no mention of "Allah," and what you will find there are non-Arabic terms for God like Yahweh or Elloi.



This is bluffing. Empty bluffing. Nobody can tell whether the Qur'an has been corrupted or not. To do that, you'd have to have on one hand the original copy written by Muhammad or written or by his scribe under his dictation, and then have on the other hand today's copy to compare verse by verse.

As we don't have any extant copy from Muhammad for comparison, we can only make speculations, we can't certify or confirm. Hence when he states that "It has not & CANNOT be corrupted." This demonstrate profound ignorance and borderline stupidity at best.

Till date, there has been no copy of the complete Qur'an traceable to Muhammad. And among the parchments of Qur'an fragments we've uncovered from the late 7th, 8th & 9th century, some of them like the undertext of the Sanaa palimpsest presents significant variation from today's Qur'an.



OK, what is this -

"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) as saying: Allah's curse to be on the Jews, they made the graves of their Prophets mosques."

How do you think Christians and Jews will take this? You expect them to respect a man that addresses them this way? Is the Prophet's statement not provocative here?

There are many provocative things that Muhammad did according to your traditional Muslim sources. So, I'm sorry but I don't think anyone should be forced to respect Muhammad. Respect is something that is earned, not demanded.



OK.



Alright, how does anyone manage to contradict themselves so much in the same paragraph. There is nothing like Mohammedanism but Muhammad(not Allah, apparently) is the symbol and most revered figure of Islam. You will not kill if anyone insult Jesus or Abraham but you will kill for Mohammed.

This is Mohammedanism and the orientalists were spot on.



The sahabas didn't think of themselves this way. The sahabas fought and disputed among themselves after Muhammad. Just read Muslim history from the Battle of Camel till the Massacre of Karbala. If you want to call for respect for the sahabas, I get it. But by dubbing them the best generation after Muhammad, you're setting a low bar for Muslims.

The sahabas invaded Persia and other empires they had no business with, cementing Islam's image as a militarily aggressive religion. Even on an individual level, the sahabas were often entitled(like Abu Bakr), aggressive(like Umar), cunning & deceitful(like Abu Huraira) individuals.

So, this entire post which makes front page is abysmal. It seem catered to kindergartens children or low IQ Muslims who would rather learn Islam from quaternary sources like the Luk.gaf instead of delving into the primary sources for themselves. And what makes it worse is the timing.

A young woman was lynched to death for insulting Islam earlier this week. And today, Luk.gaf springs to the frontpage with one post were he tries to damage control for the Muslim community and another post where he exposes his apathy for the victim by speaking about "Red Lines" that musn't be crossed.

Traditionally, in Islam, red lines are things like Idol worshiping, homicide, adultery. Luk.gaf never mention any, he just jumps to respect, respect and respect. Again, respect is something that is earned, not demanded. If you have to demand it, you don't deserve it.

Notice in the entirety of this post, he never once expressed horror or remorse that a young woman was killed. This is unfortunately the attitude of loads of Muslims. They condemned the manner Deborah was killed but they conclude she or anyone who insult the prophet deserves death.

To them the homicide itself is nothing. If you force these Muslims to do one; either kill an innocent man or insult the prophet. They'll kill the man. That's the level of mental derangement & religion induced psychopathy we're dealing with here.

I had this discussion with my own family. And not even one of them could bring themselves to say that it is too extreme to kill someone for insulting Muhammad whether the killing was by a street mob or authorized by a legal sharia court. They couldn't. It was a bitter pill for me.

So, in 2022, this many Muslims still think it is OK to kill someone for insulting their religion, even when they can neither prove the Qur'an is from God or unchanged. It is a terrible thing. And I think it is time to adopt a more drastic approach towards this problem.

You know, I look at Palestine, you have Arab Muslims bemoaning Israeli/Jewish occupation & oppression. I looked at Sweden last month, and you have Muslim immigrants protesting Islamophobia, racism and discrimination. And I'm starting to ask myself, "I'm suppose to empathize with these Muslims?"

I'm suppose to feel bad for and advocate on behalf of a group of people of whom 50 to 75 percent think it is OK to kill someone for insulting their religion?

You have always been very logical and academical even when you were a Muslim. I enjoy reading many of your post.