tanimola22:


Show me where I said 'every candidate is ambitious'. Just as we cannot generally conclude that all Nigerian graduates have a bad command of the English language, you cannot conclude from my previous post that I said every MBA candidate is ambitious. Why such a hasty generalization?

It is not a lie that unambitious people enroll for MBA programmes. But you will agree with me that it is also not a lie that ambitious people enroll for MBA programmes. You may claim that my statement is illogical if and only if you agree that yours is illogical. For every unambitious person enrolling for an MBA programme there exists an ambitious person enrolling for that same programme. And if either of them wishes to study at a business school, then the language of instruction at that business school is logically expected to be within his grasp. Anything short of this is questionable. Hence, my previous post.

I am corrigible, so I am waiting for you to point out the place where my argument is flawed. I am waiting.

When someone say he has seen MBA students that can not speak good English and you challenge it and say:

tanimola22:

Indeed, a good command of the English language is essentially required of any MBA aspirant, But oga sir, you know, I find it very difficult to believe that, as you claimed, some people ambitious enough to do a top MBA would command bad English, Are you talking about minor mistakes during conversations? If it is that, then it is inevitable,

Are you saying that does not imply you are saying "no one ambitious enough to do a top MBA will have a bad command of English"?

as far as the course content goes i believe

strategy is the most fundamental discipline/subject that all MBAs must take but i could be wrong

other core areas will cover financial accounting,operations management and human resource management . of course a huge range of electives should be available and international exposure . most programs push to to a level you did not realize you were capable of.

aribisala0:

did anyone say you said that show it.
rather engaging in self-indulgent and obstreperous speciousness let us move on and say things that add value.

, consider the logic of that remark. even people ambitious enough to be president have bad english .

i believe you read the post and comprehended it. it was a formal interview. in fact a standard structured interview .
anyhow not every candidate is ambitious.that is wrong.a good many are confused,jumping on a bandwagon or forced into it by parents.




obstreperous, Wow, you just reminded me of this word. I used it during one of my speeches in Cape Town some years back, ;Dnostalgia, hahaha

Okay, you see my brother, no one is being noisy here. Read your above post again. I am sure that the above was in response to what I earlier said(abi na wrote), unless you were not the one that wrote it.  The clear truth of the matter is that, based on your response above, if you did not assume that I said A, then why would you say that not A is right? Where A=every candidate is ambitious. You even went ahead to support your response by saying b]that is wrong[/b], What was wrong? Somebody must have said something wrong, who? Read your post again.

If you claim, according to your write up, that not every candidate is ambitious is true, you are in fact saying that not not every candidate is ambitious is false. In order words, you are saying that the statement 'every candidate is ambitious' is false. In this context, you are correcting the wrong or false statement that somebody made, You responded to somebody's wrong post. Whose post?  While you may be correct, I never made any such statement.

Sagamite:

When someone say he has seen MBA students that can not speak good English and you challenge it and say:

Are you saying that does not imply you are saying "no one ambitious enough to do a top MBA will have a bad command of English"?

If I had said 'I do not believe that' blah blah blah blah, then you would have been right. On the contrary, I only said 'I find it very difficult to believe that' blah blah blah, Those are clearly two different things. Or are you saying that the statements 'Muslims find it very difficult to eat pork' and 'Muslims do not eat pork' are the same thing? I am sure you know better. Teach me if I am wrong.

Of course, I have to end this debate now now now in order not to further derail this thread and I would do so by saying that your post is logical and my post is not illogical----

Peace!

some schools run an exchange program with foreign schools and so offer opportunities for travel and international exposure .
cost can be as high as £30000 in one year programs not to mention living costs .
important to plan ahead for expenses .you will have no time to work.
even if you have the money consider your forex arrangements .the naira can drop by a significant amount in value thus wiping out a lot of your funds .
it can happen

One thing with top MBA programs is the cost. So high. People like me, with lots of family and personal financial commitments will not afford, even after working for many years. My strategy is to get my MBA from any decent school and then later go for an Msc in a top school. I think MSC from a top school will be pretty cheaper compare to the MBA. At least the top 10-20 will be okay. The cost of these cut throat MBA programs can be very scary. I would rather do my MSC in a Nigerian university than to attend ''anyhow'' school abroad.

distance learning MBAs are a lot cheaper. depending on where you live,you could get an MBA loan with your admission letter

chamber2:

One thing with top MBA programs is the cost. So high. People like me, with lots of family and personal financial commitments will not afford, even after working for many years. My strategy is to get my MBA from any decent school and then later go for an Msc in a top school. I think MSC from a top school will be pretty cheaper compare to the MBA. At least the top 10-20 will be okay. The cost of these cut throat MBA programs can be very scary. I would rather do my MSC in a Nigerian university than to attend ''anyhow'' school abroad.

Most Top 20 MBA programs in the US have student loans for International Students as long as they make you an admission offer.

Lehman:


Most Top 20 MBA programs in the US have student loans for International Students as long as they make you an admission offer.

That is interesting. Do the loans cover every cost? What is the mode of repayment? Abeg expatiate upon the student loans.

Thanks,

tanimola22:

If I had said 'I do not believe that' blah blah blah blah, then you would have been right. On the contrary, I only said 'I find it very difficult to believe that' blah blah blah, Those are clearly two different things. Or are you saying that the statements 'Muslims find it very difficult to eat pork' and 'Muslims do not eat pork' are the same thing? I am sure you know better. Teach me if I am wrong.

Of course, I have to end this debate now now now in order not to further derail this thread and I would do so by saying that your post is logical and my post is not illogical----

Peace!

Unfortunately, the differentiation is still not strong enough. Saying "I find it difficult to believe" is still an illogical argument. You shouldn't find it hard to believe.

There are tons of people that want to and are willing to do MBA in top schools that are not even qualified to hold their SSCE certificates. People that do not know what they want to do in life or what is their passion or what is their interest. They are just another set of herd-following, certificate-packing Nigerians. They will, like an average Nigerian graduate, have bad English abilities or use text-speak to write essays but yet are ambitious enough to want to go or think they can get into Harvard, LBS, Wharton etc especially if they can afford it.

Wow!, all'ya shouldn't get the thread derailed pls! , You could raise another thread or post for your arguments on Nigeria graduates' quality and strength of English command pls, I believe this thread was brought up solely to help discuss MBA study experience and in the course help prospective and current MBA students solve whatever challenges they might be experiencing in the course of study, Please Please!

thank you for that, this is simply for MBA matter and not grammar correction.

As much as I agree with you guys not to derail that thread and I will try (and I am trying and conscious) not to derail the thread, grammatical construct is key to learning how to make any MBA application and in selling yourself after an MBA. So I think the matter is relevant, even if just peripheral.

Sagamite, i understand your concern, but this thread may be of help
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-737735.0.html

One titled like that is already in existent:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-151604.0.html

And really, the debate earlier is not a comparison. It is a critique of the average quality of all forms Nigerian students.

i don't believe anyone can censor opinion under the guise of "don't derail the thread".
this thread will probably go on for years and one should expect all complexions of opinions/stories about MBA study,life romace   etc
i agree that a few commentators shouldn't dominate the discussion .

too many people do MBA's as part of a "me too" phenomenon without a clear idea why or how it will enhance them.
i know a girl working as a marketing officer [/b ]with a bank in lagos after completing a $20000 MBA. many people do that same job without a second degree .

English mastery is germane to this discussion because of its rts role in the application process;essay writing,GMAT and interviews.

the quality of nigerian candidates in general is dismal and the few high quality ones among them can expect to be screened/evaluated through this prism.
finally there is the nigerian factor ;when a candidate with a GMAT score of 710 does not know the difference between nationalism and natiionalisation even[b] after the opportunity to check a dictionary you will understand my alarm and why i said nooooooooooo

Wow! A lot has happened in my short absence. Well, I agree with what, the initiator of the thread has written in one of his posts. There is no point derailing the thread so, let's stick to the topic at hand. I also don't ascribe to this idea of 'public criticism in the name of correction' which has become the norm here. The aim is to help guide those that are yet to decide whether the MBA is perhaps the right decision or not, now or in the future, as far as, their long term career plans are concerned. We seemed to have scared off people who have genuine questions to ask and need further insights on the subject matter.


Personally, I don't think that an investment in education is a wasted one because ' the moment we stop learning we start dying'. The investment might not pay off immediately or as anticipated but who knows what the future holds in stock? Bear in mind too, that the future is what we make of it NOW! The crux of the matter is for one to get good quality education because, the world as we know it is a global village and competition knows no boundaries. However, 'a good quality education', irrespective of how, we choose to define it , is not a 'one way ticket' for accelerated career progression. It just provides a leeway for the individual to be noticed.


Also, I don't see anything wrong with being a marketing officer with a bank in Lagos after completing a $20,000 MBA. The global economy is still trying to recover from a recession and good jobs are quite hard to come by these days. Frankly speaking, I would prefer to work in 'capacity; as a "marketing officer with a bank in Lagos" rather than, engage in menial jobs abroad ( e.g waiting tables, care work, cleaning of all sorts, security, stacking shelves etc) with the same $20,000 MBA! (recommended topic of discussion for another day!)

Finally , I came across a link on the internet that contains 2011 global MBA rankings published by Financial Times(see enclosed link herewith below). It has an interactive online platform that can enable any user customize the rankings based on specific criteria like number of placements, value for money, employment opportunities. etc. If anybody has further questions and feels that I can be of help, please drop a comment here addressed directly to me and I will be at your service. Otherwise, I am now, a bemused spectator on this thread. Cheers!



P.S- Just an afterthought, I think that the structure this sentence-working as a marketing officer [/b ]with a bank in Lagos after completing, (cited by aribisala0, 2011) is inconsistent because the way the tenses (i.e. working and completing) have been used is incorrect. Remember the old saying about not 'throwing stones' if you live in a glass house?




http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings-2011

well life is full of all sorts

! if you have a contribution make it others will do the same
whether you subscribe or not
whether you pontificate or not whether you whinge or not whether you live or die.,.,.we shall all say what we like the way we like .

long may that continue

personally i see EVERYTHING wrong with being a marketing officer with a bank after completing an MBA .that is my view i respect the right to disagree but that is why i disagree with any attempts at censorship or telling people what they may say or how to say it.

deenee:

Wow! A lot has happened in my short absence. Well, I agree with what, the initiator of the thread has written in one of his posts. There is no point derailing the thread so, let's stick to the topic at hand.  I also don't ascribe to this idea of 'public criticism in the name of correction' which has become the norm here. The aim is to help guide those that are yet to decide whether the MBA is perhaps the right decision or not, now or in the future, as far as, their long term career plans are concerned. We seemed to have scared off people who have genuine questions to ask and need further insights on the subject matter.

Honestly:

1) There is no other expedient channel to make the correction. It is not like if we get fun from public criticism but it is so important to get the message across to all Nigerian students, MBA or any other.

2) I am afraid if anyone can not up their game (on an easy and pertinent task like this) because of fear of criticism or cannot take feedback about their evident weaknesses, then surely the MBA is not for them.

aribisala0:

personally i see EVERYTHING wrong with being a marketing officer with a bank after completing an MBA .that is my view i respect the right to disagree but that is why i disagree with any attempts at censorship or telling people what they may say or how to say it.

If you rush and do MBA without any quality years of experience, I am afraid one will have very little options and that might just be the right fit for such a person.

deenee:


P.S- Just an afterthought, I think that the structure this sentence-working as a marketing officer [/b ]with a bank in Lagos after completing,  (cited by aribisala0, 2011) is inconsistent because the way the tenses (i.e. working and completing) have been used is incorrect. Remember the old saying about not 'throwing stones' if you live in a glass house?
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings-2011

you think that the structure this sentence is inconsistent because the way the tenses (i.e. working and completing) have been used is incorrect.

my akwa ibom friend ekanem has a problem pronouncing the letter; J often saying;yunctiion
on occasions such as this he would say

you are making  YEST of yasef

i know a girl working as a marketing officer[b] [/b [/b]]with a bank in lagos after completing a $20000 MBA



i know a girl working as a marketing officer with a bank in lagos after completing a $20000 MBA

according to mr deenee this sentence is incorrect because the tenses working/completing are "inconsistent


after starting all that verbose verbiage with a moan about not derailing the thread he could not but revert to type.

you are out of your depth. let us not engage each other on grammar

PS
the [/b is an artefact for the bold sign and is not responsible for his convulsions

Lehman:


Most Top 20 MBA programs in the US have student loans for International Students as long as they make you an admission offer.

IS THIS STILL THE CASE? 2011

If you rush and do MBA without any quality years of experience, I am afraid one will have very little options and that might just be the right fit for such a person.

The problem is that the opportunity to gain such experience is almost nonexistent. Currently, there is a glut in the labour market and most people end up as marketers in insurance companies and banks earning salaries as low as N10k per month. How long do you think such a person would continue in such slavery just because he wanted the ''experience.'' For instance, after graduation i got a job with an energy consulting firm. The salary was so low that i couldn't make any savings at the end of the month and getting a better job was a dream. I got to 2nd/third stages of BAT, STANBIC, First Bank etc interviews. Somehow along the line i was told i wouldn't continue with the next stage.

After all these, and many more, an opportunity came for me to go for my postgraduate. Do you assume i shelf it off just because i had no work experience? I don't think that may be a good decision, knowing fully well that such opportunities are rare. Nigeria is a country filled with various degrees of nepotism, tribalism and mediocrity and often a time the less ''connected'' get rejected, not because they are not competent but because they know nobody.

Who doesn't want experience? Almost every graduate wants to earn some money before further studies but the opportunities are not just there. My friends and classmates are still looking for jobs while i will be completing my postgraduate studies very soon. So, who is losing?

Your points are clear but the Nigerian scenario is quite disgusting.

chamber2:

The problem is that the opportunity to gain such experience is almost nonexistent. Currently, there is a glut in the labour market and most people end up as marketers in insurance companies and banks earning salaries as low as N10k per month. How long do you think such a person would continue in such slavery just because he wanted the ''experience.'' For instance, after graduation i got a job with an energy consulting firm. The salary was so low that i couldn't make any savings at the end of the month and getting a better job was a dream. I got to 2nd/third stages of BAT, STANBIC, First Bank etc interviews. Somehow along the line i was told i wouldn't continue with the next stage.

After all these, and many more, an opportunity came for me to go for my postgraduate. Do you assume i shelf it off just because i had no work experience? I don't think that may be a good decision, knowing fully well that such opportunities are rare. Nigeria is a country filled with various degrees of nepotism, tribalism and mediocrity and often a time the less ''connected'' get rejected, not because they are not competent but because they know nobody.

Who doesn't want experience? Almost every graduate wants to earn some money before further studies but the opportunities are not just there. My friends and classmates are still looking for jobs while i will be completing my postgraduate studies very soon. So, who is losing?

Your points are clear but the Nigerian scenario is quite disgusting.

That is quite sad and I know it is the reality on the ground.

That said, what I would expect is the person to do a postgraduate (MSc, MA, MEng, PhD) or a professional course (like CFA, ACA, CIMA, ACCA, CIM, ICAN, CIPS, Prince II) to boost their prospects, not MBA.

MBA is a qualification that covers management and one can only extract the quality out of it by blending experiential knowledge with theoretical learning, so some quality experience, in my opinion, is essential.

After seeing some non-experienced candidates, I have come to the conclusion it would be virtually impossible for me to hire any one like that to a management level position. For me to hire anyone to management level after an MBA, I would expect them to have any of the following experience pre-MBA:

1) At least 2-3 years experience at any top 10 strategy consulting firm (ala MBB, Monitor, AT Kearney, OC&C strategy)

2) At least 3-4 years experience at any of the Big-4 or Full service consultancies (ala Accenture, PwC, Deloitte, Capgemini, PA Consulting etc)

3) At least 5 years experience working on challenging projects in strategic roles like Marketing, Strategy, Supply Chain, Finance etc with Blue Chip firms (e.g. FTSE 100, Fortune 500, top local firms [Zenith, Sahara Group]) and achieving rapid progression in those years.

4) Any other high quality candidate with exceptional achievement and/or exposure that I can not think of creating a criteria for at the moment.

5) Anyone with 6+ years of experience at anywhere else.

Any MBA candidate that does not meet those criteria I will only consider for junior roles, the only benefit I will give is I will not treat them as entry level. I will treat them as someone with 2 years experience.

So for example, if I work for UBA and was to hire someone with MBA, the one that meets the criteria will probably enter at Manager/Senior Manager. The one that does not will enter as Senior Business Officer.

Most Top 20 MBA programs in the US have student loans for International Students as long as they make you an admission offer.

Just read the comment from a yahoo news reader, he is probably a US citizen or resident.

''All my @#$% degree did was make me "over qualified" when applying for a job. I went to college to get a degree so I would have and advantage when looking for a job. The only thing my degree got me was massive debt. I am unemployed and get told that I am "over qualified". Seems my @#$% is only @#$%.''

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-Higher-Education-Affects-usnews-1001103912.html?x=0

aribisala0:

IS THIS STILL THE CASE? 2011

Yes it is. A lot of the funding dried up during the credit crunch circa 08 and 09 but they are back now. This should be one of the most important things to check on the school's website. For most of the top schools, no co-signing is required.

tanimola22:


That is interesting. Do the loans cover every cost? What is the mode of repayment? Abeg expatiate upon the student loans.

Thanks,

It depends on the school. Some will give you enough money to cover everything. In which case you'll have an incredible amount of debt when you are done. Some others will only provide loan for tuition, books and computer while you'll be expected to fund your living and feeding expenses. They'll need you to show financial proof that you can cover whatever they are not funding.

is there no school that give scholarship for the programme? be in Nigeria or Abroad

olawalebab:

is there no school that give scholarship for the programme? be in Nigeria or Abroad

There are many. Many of them are looking to diversify their programs and I've observed a focus on Africa lately. Many of them have in fact been coming to Lagos to make presentations.

The only catch is that your application has to be stellar! You'll be competing with a lot of other outstanding applicants as you can imagine.

british council used to give scholarships for british schools 1 or 2 a year but they were extremely competitive and clearly a drop in the ocean .you are more likely to get scholarships for science or other course that have "development values " .MBAs are considered a luxury .

please, is there any link you can provide for me on that?

if you are serious about an MBA try and do some research