ebos:

Hey Protestants,

Your forefathers even said Jesus ate with sinners and so, He is not God sent. Such accusers will continue to float up – the holier-than-thou- attitude. Why is Pope kissing the Koran - as the Koran is a taboo? That is the way Protestants reason, interpreting the bible base on their skimpy knowledge. They have forgotten that Koran still contain the word of God. However, the only way you can get them (Muslims) along to reason with you is by making them friends, and not seeing them as outcasts.

My dear ebos,

Making friends with those whom you try to evangelize is good. But when you kiss their doctrine, you're ridiculing your own foundation.

I was a Muslim before I became a Christian. If you know the implications of the Pope's action in that picture, you would not accuse Protestants of "skimpy knowledge". That's why I didn't want to comment initially. Push the botton, and I might as well load you with the implication of what Pope John Paul's actions in that picture brought about.

@Pilgrim,

It’s even more ridiculous to think that Pope’s action ridicule Christianity. The way your understand his action is what you will like to explain, and your explanation doesn’t depict Pope’s action rather it helps to demonstrate the way Protestants comprehend the word of God, and their knowledge of the word of God does not represent the way real Christians feel.

to me i never liked that picture.the pope kissing the QURAN,
 there is a part that justifies war against those that dont believe in their doctrine,
these same people believe in fighting,in defence for their faith/god.
 i ply their [god] with small letter,cos no one fight,defend,or protects the image of the most high GOD.
     
       So who will tell me is the POPE embraceing OR rejecting war
 WHICH EVER HE IS DOING, ITS BEST HE GET BACK N SPIT ON IT

@ebos,

ebos:

It’s even more ridiculous to think that Pope’s action ridicule Christianity. The way your understand his action is what you will like to explain,

. . . precisely as it is with Catholics - the way you understand the Pope's action is what Catholics would like to explain it away - and then they miss the real implications that his actions brought about!

ebos:

and your explanation doesn’t depict Pope’s action

You may not see it that way; but now the floor is open for you as a Catholic to explain it to us and tell us what his actions brought about. Please do so in a way that would convince any reader that you're not scooting away from the facts, thank you.

ebos:

rather it helps to demonstrate the way Protestants comprehend the word of God, and their knowledge of the word of God does not represent the way real Christians feel.

How many times have I asked questions and still not received answers as to what Catholics understand about the WORD of God? At least I can appreciate your honest attempts to offer answers and dialogue, even though you haven't made any replies to the issues about the Woman in Revelation 12.

However, when you make a case for "real" Christians, what have Catholics demonstrated here on the Forum that would make anyone understand that others are bereft of the WORD of God? How many times have other Catholics replied by complaining instead of reasoning? The one thing that still amazes me is that we can agree that Catholics often do not want to go to the Bible for answers - they are the ones complaining that Christians cannot base their faith on the Bible alone!

How body today?

@Pilgrim & Cgift,

Don't worry I will come to Rev. 12, I have not forgotten it. I understand you feel I have nothing again to say about it – you have shut up my mouth. However, I have said it before - me and you go fight well well. Hope say you don go train for Stadium? Cgift is to refuel you. No wahala. Today dey fine. Hope you to

Lol ebos. . . today is fine for me as well, thank God.

You dey make afraid dey catch me O! If the only thing wey remain to placate you na for me to shut up, then here I go:

       pilgrim.1 don SHUT UP!!  

Abi no be so?

Enjoy.

Pilgrim, you to wahala, haba. wetin dey happen?

_{mfff! mpfff!!. . . I no fit talk again - until you release me! But I fit take style smile sha!}

pilgrim.1:

_{mfff! mpfff!!. . . I no fit talk again - until you release me! But I fit take style smile sha!}

Eh, smile and smile. e too much - you dey launch missles, dey reload, dey launch. Abi we dey quarrel?

Okay, na only you I go apologise to O! Remember my motto: "na my own I dey jeje when. . .!"   I no go swear. . but if anybody wan find trouble, make them press the wrong botton! Hehe. . 

flakey94:

Thank you guys! for the various mails. I am happy to say i was not born catholic, i converted to the faith and the good Lord knows i have not had one single day of regret.
In my own case i don't try to justify my doctrine to any person i just worship because i realised it years ago that a lot of people are not armed with the information they need to have an intelligent argument .
I look at it from one point of view and that is anything bad will not stand the test of time!!
HOW OLD IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? HAS IT NOT STOOD
Please ignore them if we start the mud slinging it will not end so!!!
GLORY TO JESUS HONOR HONOR HONOR TO MARY QUEEN OF NIGERIA.

My brother yarn dem let them hear. The more few people are leaving Catholic, the more huge number of people are trooping in. I know a lot of people who are back to Catholic today - they criticized and condemned Catholic Church when they were outside the fold. Now, they have realized how they were being deceived by their Pastors. Thank you a lot for coming back.

Enjoy the truth faith in Catholic – the very Church established by Christ Himself.

Ok. Enough of all these felicitations.

ebos, you see i have a problem with some peoples attitude as i have seen so far.

One of your brethren called us "trolls" because we are trying to rub minds. Aren't they polished? Dont they understand what 'good communication is at all' do they not know what virtue are? Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.. They need to brush up their bibles. I am convinced with the attitude of many of your brethren that they can kill protestants (after all you call us separated brethren) just like in the days of old which forced your pope to apologise recently. That apology may not have been sincere afterall 'cos i haven't seen any change in attitude.

Ok lets calm down but i hope its not that most catholics think they have the right to sin and misbehave anytime in as much as they can still run to Mary and the priest to confess their sins and then they are freed. That's by the way sha!

Kissing the Quran is not a surprise to me: if you are very familiar with the origins of Islam, you would know that it was the violent history of Islam espcially against Christains that drew the support of Catholicsim towards them (Islam). How can a pope, who is considered to be infallible and a "spokemans" of God approve of a religion that slanders Christ? If your pope can do this and all you can say is we do not understand his actions, i doubt then if you Catholics are ready to stand up to the truth.



See you now, you dey yearn say na christ establish the catholic church. Okay. but una no follow the man teaching again ko!

Som ppl her in this thread, possess child-like minds, they dnt reason deep. Many words we hear, read are figurative, plz U guys shld study ur Bible well b4 U attack d Catholics. I am 1. I allow Gospels from Jehovah's witness, Protestants, even atheists bt I dnt gt provoked. I wonder y ppl who aint deep in Christianity r alwayz d ppl dt shout out loud whn it coms 2 discussions abt d diff denominations in Christianity.
D reason y Catholics honour The Blessed Virgin Mary is bc Jesus himself while dying on the cross asked us 2 do so "Mother look at thy son, Son look at thy mother." We honour St. Joseph the foster father of Jesus, we honour all other Apostles, Martyrs, we honour other Saints, we honour Venerables, we honour Blesseds. All these new Churches (denominations), hang the pictures of their GOs example, The Christ Embassy, I c Pastor Chris' in all his Churches is dt nt equivalent 2 wht Nebuchadnezzar did in d Bible.
1 thing I love in Catholicism is d meekness and d humbleness being thought and practised. I hv neva seen d Pope, Cardinals, Arch-Bishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, Nuns, Rev. Sis, Rev. Bros, even d true Laity gallivanting in painted faces, putting on expensive wears, escorted by Security Guards dt r armed 2 d teeth.
It is small things that make a big hero. Till when i gt good kicks frm really ppl, I will say adieux.
Adieux.

@Cgift,

Pope don drink water, bible no approve that type of cup. Pope go say depart and sin no more. The Protestants go say Pope don change am, wetin bible talk na "go and sin no more". Pope go wave hand, the Protestants say "Christ no wave hand. Make Catholic show where Christ waved hand for bible. This Pope don change am again. Abeg Pope, you don hear an now, no wave hand again. e no dey for bible.

One more thing
[/color][color=#990000][color=#990000]Kissing the Quran is not a surprise to me: if you are very familiar with the origins of Islam, you would know that it was the violent history of Islam espcially against Christains that drew the support of Catholicsim towards them (Islam). How can a pope, who is considered to be infallible and a "spokemans" of God approve of a religion that slanders Christ? If your pope can do this and all you can say is we do not understand his actions, i doubt then if you Catholics are ready to stand up to the truth.
[/color]
I believe mst us here hv neva listened 2 an Imam. I hv listened 2 an imam, they nt slanderous abt jesus, they respect Jesus, they mostly refer 2 him as "[color=#000099]SON OF MARIAM[color=Black]
kEEP ON BRINGING D KICKS.[/color]"[/color]

ebos:

@Cgift,

Pope don drink water, bible no approve that type of cup. Pope go say depart and sin no more. The Protestants go say Pope don change am, wetin bible talk na "go and sin no more". Pope go wave hand, the Protestants say "Christ no wave hand. Make Catholic show where Christ waved hand for bible. This Pope don change am again. Abeg Pope, you don hear an now, no wave hand again. e no dey for bible.

Pope don enter trouble be that. . Make i advice pope, make hin free Mary

Iyke_001:

I believe mst us here hv never listened 2 an Imam. I hv listened 2 an imam, they nt slanderous about jesus, they respect Jesus, they mostly refer 2 him as "[color=#000099]SON OF MARIAM[color=Black]
kEEP ON BRINGING D KICKS.[/color]"[/color]

When you slander any of Christ's children calling them infidels, you slander Christ. Whatsoever you do to any one of my brethren, thou doeth same to me so says Christ!!!!

@Cgift
I apprec8 ur quote. bt mind U nt al d muslims r slanderous jst as nt all Christians ready 2 defend their faith.
I did my NYSC at d caliph State, so i made a lot of friends w/ d muslims. this does nt mean dt i support d act of kissing d Quran by d pope. No! I hv nt heard abt it, I believe Pope Benedict XVI is a very conservative Catholic.
Please i will like to knw d name of d Pope and when the Pope kissed the Quran.

@ Cgift

When you slander any of Christ's children calling them infidels, you slander Christ. Whatsoever you do to any one of my brethren, thou doeth same to me so says Christ!!!!

When you slander any of Christ's children calling them infidels, you slander Christ. Whatsoever you do to any one of my brethren, thou doeth same to me so says Christ!!!!

I apprec8 your quote. bt mind You nt al d muslims r slanderous jst as nt all Christians ready 2 defend their faith.
I did my NYSC at d caliph State, so i made a lot of friends w/ d muslims. this does nt mean dt i support d act of kissing d Quran by d pope. No! I hv nt heard about it, I believe Pope Benedict XVI is a very conservative Catholic.
Please i will like to knw d name of d Pope and when the Pope kissed the Quran.

@Iyke_001,

Iyke_001:

Som people her in this thread, possess child-like minds, they dnt reason deep. Many words we hear, read are figurative, plz You guys shld study your Bible well before You attack d Catholics. I am 1.

Before you ask others to "reason deep", one would have hoped that you had done your own home work well enough before you assume the role of corrective officer.

Iyke_001:

I allow Gospels from Jehovah's witness, Protestants, even atheists bt I dnt gt provoked.

Lol. . . this is the product of "reasoning deep", abi? FYI, "atheists" do not preach any "Gospels" - go figure!

Iyke_001:

I wonder y people who aint deep in Christianity r alwayz d people dt shout out loud whn it coms 2 discussions about d diff denominations in Christianity.

Okay, we hear (it isn't hard to see your depth, though).

Iyke_001:

D reason y Catholics honour The Blessed Virgin Mary is bc Jesus himself while dying on the cross asked us 2 do so "Mother look at thy son, Son look at thy mother." We honour St. Joseph the foster father of Jesus, we honour all other Apostles, Martyrs, we honour other Saints, we honour Venerables, we honour Blesseds. All these new Churches (denominations), hang the pictures of their GOs example, The Christ Embassy, I c Pastor Chris' in all his Churches is dt nt equivalent 2 wht Nebuchadnezzar did in d Bible.

We don hear. But how have you explained the meaning of "honouring" Mary and the 'saints'? So, should we suppose that  ---


[list][li]"pray to" Joseph because you 'honour' Mary and pray to her?[/li][/list]

[list][li]"pray to" the Venerables because you 'honour' Mary and pray to her as well? [/li][/list]

[list][li]"pray to" the Apostles and Martyrs by chanting "Hail Apostles" and "Hail Martyrs" as you do to Mary?[/li][/list]

The thing wey we dey ask, you never settle am yet!

Iyke_001:

1 thing I love in Catholicism is d meekness and d humbleness being thought and practised. I hv never seen d Pope, Cardinals, Arch-Bishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, Nuns, Rev. Sis, Rev. Bros, even d true Laity gallivanting in painted faces, putting on expensive wears, escorted by Security Guards dt r armed to the teeth.

Okay, we don hear. Let's see the three issues that are your worries:

[list][li]painted faces[/li]
[li]expensive wears[/li]
[li]security escorts and guards[/li][/list]

Did I read you say you have "never" the same things about the Cardinals, priests and bishops in the Catholic Church doing so? Wait make I remind you:

[list][li]#1. PAINTED FACES - same as masks: who are these masked men in the catholic Church?[/li][/list]

 



[list][li]#2. Expensive Wears - How much is the cost of the robes of the Pope?[/li][/list]



 


[list][li]#3. What are these security escorts doing near your Pope/Cardinal/Bishop?[/li][/list]



You still get issues with Protestants, abi?

Iyke_001:

It is small things that make a big hero. Till when i gt good kicks frm really people, I will say adieux.
Adieux.

Indeed. But you for stall some more in order to keep us educated a lil more.

Cheers all the same.

Iyke_001:
Some people her in this thread, possess child-like minds, they dnt reason deep. Many words we hear, read are figurative, plz You guys shld study your Bible well before You attack d Catholics. I am 1. I allow Gospels from Jehovah's witness, Protestants, even atheists bt I dnt gt provoked.

It depends on what you mean by being provoked. Heresies and unbiblical doctrines should get a child of God provoked. Non-compliance with the scriptures and licentious conduct should get a true christain provoked. Christ was provoked that he openly castigated the demeanour of the pharisees.

Iyke_001:
I wonder y people who aint deep in Christianity r alwayz d people dt shout out loud whn it coms 2 discussions about d diff denominations in Christianity.

What do you mean by depth? What is your definition of depth in christainity? Is it accepting that the bible (that the catholics as you claim gave to) protestants use is not complete? Or that, the fallacy of hasty generalisation being committed by Catholics that Mother, keep thyson and cice versa gives you the leeway to start according undue homage (that none of the disciples of christ never gave) to Mary? Is it believing in a course in demonology about purgatory? A false teaching that the eucharist [/b]is not symbolic - that it is the true body, blood, bones, head, bowels etc of Jesus you eat during communion( to the extent that you were burning people at stakes, maming women's breasts and making them to bleed to death, ringing out women's foetus while tying them at stake and much more attrocities) and very many more of such teachings - What do you mean by depth in Christainity? I need to know more. [b]Hebrews 13:9a Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace;

Iyke_001:
D reason y Catholics honour The Blessed Virgin Mary is bc Jesus himself while dying on the cross asked us 2 do so "Mother look at thy son, Son look at thy mother." We honour St. Joseph the foster father of Jesus, we honour all other Apostles, Martyrs, we honour other Saints, we honour Venerables, we honour Blesseds.

You should start honouring me too o!! because i am a joint-heir with Christ! . I hav told you people timeswithout number that, you have replaced Christ with Mary. Christ is no longer effective in your organisation. Mary has become your saviour as confirmed by your popes, she has become your mediator and your refuge. Are you sure you follow the pronouncements of your popes?

Iyke_001:
All these new Churches (denominations), hang the pictures of their GOs example, The Christ Embassy, I c Pastor Chris' in all his Churches is dt nt equivalent 2 wht Nebuchadnezzar did in d Bible.

Though they hang it, they do not worship it or venerate it.

Iyke_001:
1 thing I love in Catholicism is d meekness and d humbleness being thought and practised. I hv never seen d Pope, Cardinals, Arch-Bishops, Bishops, Priests, Monks, Nuns, Rev. Sis, Rev. Bros, even d true Laity gallivanting in painted faces, putting on expensive wears, escorted by Security Guards dt r armed to the teeth.

My pastor does not have such details.

Iyke_001:
Till when i gt good kicks frm really people, I will say adieux.
Adieux.

Pilgrim.1, many thanks for those pixs.

Waiting to hear from you.

Kissing the quoran?

I would re-christen you guys to be The Catholic Church of Anti-Protestants because the Vatican seem to be at peace with any religion that fights protestansim. I wonder how many bibles you have burnt if not that Islam ditched it, it would have being a very formidable force against Christainity but mind you Christainity as advocated by the protestants you are aversed to thrive more in during opposition. Learn church history in the bible!

Lets engage.

hello guys, very deep conversation going on here. its exciting to see people defend the catholic faith with such seriousness. Im a Catechist, been teaching catechism for over a decade and i must confess i have learnt alot just by reading dis thread.

cheers

Hey brethren,


For starters, let me quickly say that I believe that opinions should be personal therefore, people should not be criticised for holding a belief they hold dear. In the same vein, those who think what they have got is the best should not go about slandering other people's views about life. The implication of this opening paragraph is that i don't expect anyone to start calling for my head on this forum based on what i am going to say. They are my personal opinions and i believe that constitutionally and religiously I am entitled to my own thoughts and opinions.

Now to the topic in question. I will give a brief introduction about my knowledge of the topic so that after my post, some people will know that i am not ignorant of what i say. I was not born a catholic, but became a Catholic when I was 11, you could say  i was still a child but then i could distinguish between evil and good. As i write this, I have received the sacraments of baptism, Holy Communion and Confirmation. But i want to let you know that there are some Catholic doctrines that i consider very idolic and unbiblical. Take confession for instance: i don't go for confession because i see no reason why i would rely on a man like myself to pray for the forgiveness of my sins. If we still need to rely on men for forgiveness of our sins, then the sacrifice Jesus made for your sake and mine is become useless. When He was dying on the cros, the veil of the temple did not just rend into two for the fun of it. That incident is very symbolic. The rending of the veil means that Jesus has removed the barrier between God and His people. In the Old Testament, the veil demarcated the priests (who communed with God on behalf of the people) from the people. With the rending of the veil, we are free to go to God at whatever time, for whatever need we have. The Bible says that God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of sonship so that we can boldly come into His presence and cry Abba father! So, why timidly go kneel before a man to say "Forgive me Father for i have sinned"? did i sin against him? besides, confession, like most Catholic doctrines, have become nothing but rituals. they don't take what they do seriously.

Bowing to images, worshipping images, adoring images, venerating images, whatever name you choose to give it, is WRONG! God is explicitly clear in the first of the ten commandments: don't even make for yourself any image, don't bow to any. Whether you call it God or His Mother or His Son, IT IS WRONG! Most doctrines we have in the Catholic Church are formulated by humans, mere humans. They are formulated in the Vatican Councils we have. The church is so rigid abou them that they have become nothing but dogmas!

Let me give you a scenario of when i introduced my husband to be then to some of my colleagues (by the way i work for the Catholic Secretariat of Nigeria which is the Administrative organ of the Catholic Bishops Conference of Nigeria; i know first hand all of the heinous atrocities committed in the Church, by men of the robes; i know first hand that the kind of politics that take place in Nigeria is child's play compared with what goes on in the church!) they asked me why i wanted to get married to a non Catholic and if i didn't know that the CC is the only true church and that is the only place where there is salvation. I was stunned. (of cos, before then i always knew about the obnoxious sixth commandment of the church. it states that Catholics should not marry non Catholics; however, in the event that there is a "mixed marriage" i.e marriage btw a Catholic and Non-C, the woman and the children that will come from the union will remain Catholics!). I simply told them that I am a Bible believing Christian and will only do what my Bible tells me to do not some supplementary rules laid down by men.

Praying the rosary in the name of asking Mary to pray to her son for as far as I'm concerned is total rubbish. The Bible tells me that the only way to the Father is through Jesus and that there is no other way. If there was, Jesus would have said it. Infact, Jesus Himself said whoever keeps my commandments and does the will of my Father in heaven is my mother and brother. so what are we not talking about! I pray that God will reveal himself to all of us.

I have stopped going to CC, not for anything but because there is no point worshipping with people whose beliefs i no longer share. I have stepped up in my spirituality. I have been there, i still work there, and i definitely know what i am talking about. May God have mercy on us all!

@ Cgift and Pilgrim
thnx 4 d pix bt hw sure am I dt those pix r nt fabricates computer images.

Gospel by atheists: i neva meant Christian gospel, i apologise 4 using a beautiful word lik gospel for d outbursts of atheists. who i meant by d atheist r our scientists, their gospel d scientific proves. do u knw dt Galileo wz persecuted 4 proposing dt d sun is d center of our universe nt d earth by the catholic church.bt i turned out true.

My bros, i do honour U guys cos u r joint heirs w/ me in Christ. I given u d necessary quote 4 d reason why we honour Mary. by the way, hw many of d disciples of Jesus do u knw? I hv neva worshiped any image image and Catholicism does nt teach us 2 worship images.
In addition, I remember dt d bible tells me dt durin d weddin @ cana, dt Our Mother mary, interceded for the celebrant. So shld I nt ask The Blessed Mother 2 intercede on my behalf, jst as ppl ask others 2 help them pray or join them in prayers. Peter prayed for a lame man "silver and gold i hv none bt all i hv i gv on 2 thee", so y dnt i ask St Peter 2 pray 4 me.

Furthermore, i mst tell U dt u mst nt judge all catholics by d History of europe, the European Christianity in d medevial period were all prejudiced. martin luther king 1 wz @ first right in his believes, bt he deviated furthermore in his search 4 change, som of his followers used his doctrine 2 activ8 som political rebellion against d Roman government, which wz dependent on the Catholic church. I remember frm my history dt, d Catholic church did offer indulgence 4 money in d past bt those were d treble deeds of som self priests then, even now these things r being practiced in som catholic parishes n som of our new protestant n pentecostal churches. i dnt hv anything against other churches, bt wht i knw iz dt come rain com shine, the diff b/w Catholicism and wht U believe is very minimum. I believe in d Bible yes! Bt I believe dt God speaks thru ppl, so the first Vatican and Second Vatican council publications r also inclusive in d catholic teachings.

Abt burning @ d stakes, nt only d Protestants were martyred in d dark ages of europe, St Joan of Arc wz burnt @ d stake by the Church of England 4 leading on som crusade against the English King, she wz offered som amnesty if and only if she renounced her faith by the Anglican Bishop. All these are all politically motivated.
Nw, these Europeans dnt care abt God, an Euro woman wz asked by a black priest "why do u and ur son nt com 2 church 4 service.[color=#990000][color=Black]she replied[color=#990000]"we europeans no longer need God, cnt U c dt we live in enjoyment while u Africans r surffering. Africans need God more [color=Black]


So my Brothers or Sisters, I love you jst as Christ loves you. Let us stop this counter accusation dt will lead us 2 nowhere. I fu c some thing good in catholism admire it, crave it, if U c somthin u dnt like investigate it, dnt jugde it by lookin @ fanatical catholics.
I believe U both knw Gov Peter Obi, hz his catholic faith failed him? No! So we all shld apprec8 d good diff in our faiths.
With love adieux."[/color][/color][/color]"[/color]

storm0210:

hello guys, very deep conversation going on here. its exciting to see people defend the catholic faith with such seriousness. I'm a Catechist, been teaching catechism for over a decade and i must confess i have learnt alot just by reading this thread.

cheers

Storm, that is what we have been saying that what you have mostly (in my opinion) amongst Catholic believers are androids (people - who take what the god of Rome (the pope) tells you in doctrines including Mariolatory (the worship of Mary - the saviour of Rome) through your priests. People have refused to read the bible (you people gave us by what you claim) for themselves. These things are in that same bible. Read for yourselves. Look at what Mosetra [/b]just said about her experience. Until she said she had left, i was going to ask how she was coping with people of a different doctrine.

To tell you the truth, the catholic church (CC) is more political. Do you know what [b]concordats [/b]are? Heard about the [b]papacy? Do you know the vatican believes Mary is the saviour instead of Jesus?. They will continue to deny these things but what i know is that they do not practice what they preach.

I for one, i am very wary of a priest in the CC because i know he can do when pushed against the wall or even tempted.

Now iyke_001 [/b]is saying we should not judge the CC by its past. But you do not know what is going on in the Vatican. Do you know these men will always try to get involved in politics and cladenstinely positioning their men to take control of power? The aim of the Vatican is to seize political power. The CC is well represented in the bible in the book of Revelation. Will give you insights if you care.

Now some apologists will say "[b]do not read books that are written by anti-catholics. So they expect a practicing catholic to write against the CC! How comical. MOreover, these people you call antiCC are so only because most Cs have refused to open up their minds and allow intellectual discourse.

Have you ever wondered why the Catholic Church and Islam have very many things in common? Ponder a while,

The church has a principle of inclusion which states that the end justifies the means. Hope you can read in betwen the lines.

storm0210:

hello guys, very deep conversation going on here. its exciting to see people defend the catholic faith with such seriousness. I'm a Catechist, been teaching catechism for over a decade and i must confess i have learnt alot just by reading this thread.

cheers

Welcome. . . and enjoy with us!

@Mosetra,

Mosetra:

Bowing to images, worshipping images, adoring images, venerating images, whatever name you choose to give it, is WRONG! God is explicitly clear in the first of the ten commandments: don't even make for yourself any image, don't bow to any. Whether you call it God or His Mother or His Son, IT IS WRONG!

Wow! That's quite humbly for me. . . considering your having been a Catholic before.

Mosetra:

I have stopped going to CC, not for anything but because there is no point worshipping with people whose beliefs i no longer share. I have stepped up in my spirituality. I have been there, i still work there, and i definitely know what i am talking about. May God have mercy on us all!

I join you in that prayer - well said: May God have mercy on us all! Amen.

Cheers.

don't see the reason @all to start this controversial topic.but since i'm in here(which) iwon't do again,i'll add my own bit.

1.jesus was God and Man on earth.so mary automatically becomes the mother of God.
2.you get prayed 4 by pastors,friends e.t.c so wots d big deal wiv asking mary who had the priviledge of conceiving our lord jesus to pray 4 us us.
3.when criticising  d catholic church don't start criticising the fault of the members cos evry1 errs.if u wanna make any serious criticism direct it towards the doctrines of the church so we know where u r coming from
4.If u have ever been a catholic truly (both when ur spiritually active and when struggling and you really know your doctrines and reasons why fings are(or a r bn done) this way u won't  be spending ur time attacking catholics

Iyke_001:

@ Cgift and Pilgrim
thnx 4 d pix bt hw sure am I dt those pix r nt fabricates computer images.

You can do a simple investigation - and if you want more (even recent ones), I get them plenty o supply!  

Iyke_001:

My bros, i do honour You guys because you're joint heirs w/ me in Christ. I given u d necessary quote 4 d reason why we honour Mary. by the way, hw many of d disciples of Jesus do u knw? I hv never worshiped any image image and Catholicism does nt teach us 2 worship images.

Okay, I hear. If you "honour" me, please don't do "Hail pilgrim.1" for me O! That one go cross wetin I no fit handle!  

With the love of Jesus I also honour and respect you. Em. . ebos go login now to ask me to provide Scripture for that one. Go to 1 Pet. 2:17 - "Honour all men." Gbam!

Iyke_001:

So my Brothers or Sisters, I love you jst as Christ loves you. Let us stop this counter accusation dt will lead us 2 nowhere. I fu c some thing good in catholism admire it, crave it, if You c somthin u dnt like investigate it, dnt jugde it by lookin @ fanatical catholics.

Okay, here's one: I admire the tenacity of purpose with which Catholic priests study for the ministry! Honestly, I do. I may not agree with the results; but that is something we could emulate, abi?

Cheers and many blessings.

chymes:

don't see the reason @all to start this controversial topic.but since i'm in here(which) iwon't do again,i'll add my own bit.

1.jesus was God and Man on earth.so mary automatically becomes the mother of God.

No wahala. Now reconsider:

* Jesus was God and Man on earth; so did "God" die on the Cross?

* Jesus was God and Man on earth; so was "God" asleep on a pillow (Mark 4:38)?

* Jesus was God and Man on earth; so was "God" tempted in all points as we are (Heb. 4:15)?

When we assert that Mary is the "Mother of God" (theotokos), are we also ready to defend the idea that Mary was also the "Mother of Lamb" (since Jesus was also "the Lamb of God" - John 1:29)?

Mary was indeed called the mother of Jesus by the apostles; but they never called her the "mother of GOD" just as nobody ever called her the "mother of a lamb". This argument falls flat on the face of its own logic.

chymes:

2.you get prayed 4 by pastors,friends e.t.c so wots d big deal with asking mary who had the priviledge of conceiving our lord jesus to pray 4 us us.

There's actually no big deal - because we don't put our trust in our pastors; and up until now Catholics have not explained what the Popes mean by asking the Catholic Church to put ALL THEIR HOPE and TRUST in Mary - the same Mary whom they call the "Savior of the people of Rome"!! How many "Saviours" we get in Christianity, abeg?

chymes:

3.when criticising d catholic church don't start criticising the fault of the members because evry1 errs.if u want to make any serious criticism direct it towards the doctrines of the church so we know where you're coming from

It is the doctrines actually that we've been querying, and not who holds what and what-nots in Catholicism.

chymes:

4.If u have ever been a catholic truly (both when your spiritually active and when struggling and you really know your doctrines and reasons why fings are(or a r bn done) this way u won't be spending your time attacking catholics

Who has been "attacking" Catholics? Could you please just explain what you mean by the word "attack"?

Cheers.

@ pilgrim 1

you have not read anything yet. Whenever anyone points out anything doctrine that seems unchristian in the CC, Catholics scream to the highest heavens of being attacked by Protestants. What most people (even Catholics) don't know is that even some of the proests are tired of the whole thing. I have a priest friend who told me "Petra if i had known this thing is like this, I would not have joined the priesthood". He continued "and i have an older brother who is also a priest, he did not tell me it was like this". I know you guys will be quick to want to think i am lying but i tell you on my honour that it is true. As he talked he cried. You know why? There is a constant contradiction within him between what he taught he was going into and what the reality is at the end of the day. I asked him why he still remained, he only said, "Petra, it is not as you think". This Priest is still a very good friend of mine and of my husband (we have not had a Church wedding yet though).

That is why when i hear all these "mass goers" screaming about attacks on their beliefs, i smile sadly cos they do not know what goes on in the caucus.

Let me quickly add that the CC is so organized (and if there is anything i like about the CC, it is the organization, almost impeccable, every detailed worked out and maintained for generations, i give that to the CC) that there are some things that are known only to the Church's hierarchy and these secrets, hmm! for you to hear them, then you must be within. Some Priests do not even know certain things about the CC. That is the truth let alone church goers.

My God! Can't you just see that the bible says that you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free! I wonder why people think spiritual things are just only logical and sentimental. Most Catholics that have spoken used those two emotions without any spiritual backing - most don't even have deep understanding of the bible. I am sure that reading the scriptures with open mind will help anyone seeking to know the truth. Pilgrim.1, you have not just been very articulate with your positions but I can also see life and light emanating from your words.
If you want to know - there are so many things in the Quran that should make the Pope shiver. If the Pope is a Christian - his death sentence is in the Quran. For your information - all Christians are infidels and should be killed according to the Holy Quran. Now, a book that promotes a vice like this being kissed by the Pope shows his acceptance of the ideals. Someone even said that Jesus is highly revered in the Quran - lie from the pit of hell. The story of Jesus is captured in Surat Mariam in the Quran and the basis of our Christianity was rubbished there. For your information - the Quran claims that Jesus was never crucified and that Allah changed with someone else who was then killed in his place. My basis for being saved is because Jesus died for my sins and made me blameless - a religion that negates that is not to be romanced by me.
If you have any justification why my following Christ is wrong - let me know, but I think you have none. I have several reasons to believe that Catholicism is not what it claims to be - why not listen to the truth and do a little research of your own instead of becoming so emotional about the faith of the fathers.
There are different roles mentioned in the bible including five fold ministries - Pastor, Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets and Apostles together with offices like deacons and bishops. If the office of Pope is so important, why was it not mentioned in the Bible? And why the sin of adding to the word of God and removing from it as it suits us. Where did the Bible proclaim Peter as the 1st Pope. Peter will be sad to know how his name has been so desecrated. Peter, a man who was part of the Pentecost who understands the workings of the Holy Spirit, who was not recorded to have taken part in any incense-based rituals. A man whom Christ called the pillar of his Church, who ministered in the Holy Spirit. Really, can we say that most Catholics are baptized in the holy Ghost? Nopes. Most don't even believe in it.
I pray sincerely that the words of Christ in Mark 15:7-9 will find expressions in your hearts. Amen.