Welcome to Church!

But before you start singing and mumbling prayers, we have some issues for you to think about. That's because, for most people who profess a religious belief, their "faith" is accidental -- a function of time, geography and circumstances. A Christian fundamentalist, had he or she been born three thousand years ago in Egypt, would have probably ended up worshipping the "true" deity or deities in vogue at that time. A contemporary Moslem would have worshipped an Aztec or Mayan pantheon of gods had he or she been living just a few centuries ago in Central America. There have been thousands of different religions worshipping tens of thousands (and even millions) of assorted gods. Most, if not all, have claimed to be "the one true creed." And their disagreements have resulted in war, intolerance, oppression and other violations of human dignity.

Today everywhere, Christianity -- the worship of a god-man known as Jesus -- is the dominant belief among those who profess religion. But did you know that about 10% of Americans consider themselves to be Atheists, doubters, or religious skeptics of some kind? That's over 25,000,000 people. Millions more, the majority of the American population, are branded with the odious label of "unchurched"; they do not attend church, mosque or temple on any regular basis (except perhaps on "holy days" to keep up appearances for friends, relatives and the community), nor do they look to religion for a moral code. Their ethics stem from a secular philosophy of life.

Atheists often know more about the precepts and origins of religious belief than believers themselves do. We study more than just the one accepted "holy book", and we like to read the parts which churches ignore, or conveniently re-write in an effort to render religious text more palpable. Here are just a few items for you to read, contemplate, and even chuckle over.
Go ahead! Read the bible, and the Koran, and the other numerous books which claim to be divinely inspired. Study religious history, and then decide for yourself!

So, let me guess: the thread was more about Christianity being responsible for violence in today's world than Islam, or what? Thanks for recognising Christianity as the dominant belief among the religious, but what's the purpose of your statistics? If you want to start another thread here on atheism, say so plainly and close your sob story of complaint against "the god-man known as Jesus." I've lost friends in the riots, my scars are still sore, the streets are not safe where I'm living - and you have the temerity to come here with your lollygag philosophy of pointing your single-ended stick on Christianity as the culprit? So much for your secularism and boasted "study" with no grasp on reality.

I'm sorry that you have suffered due to so-called 'religious violence'.

But he isn't saying that Christianity is the reason behind the violence, more that religion and the concept behind religion (in general) do not help mankind.

When I read a thread, I want to feel the pen and brain of the writer. If he was writing merely about "religion" as being unhelpful to mankind, it would obviously have been easy to decipher in his writeup. However, he opens his thread with a direct statement that should turn the reader's attention on Christianity rather than on religion - "Welcome to Church!" Then he kept his skewed opinions focused more on the Christian faith than on anything else, as if Christianity is to be held responsible for his sleepless nights in the wake of the recent global religious disturbances.

Talk of "violations of human dignity" - was he not himself doing exactly that by trying to slur the faiths of other people? If religion has been abused by some, he should condemn the excesses - as indeed any sane member of any society would do, including me. But if, instead, he was all about atheism or secularism, that should not justify his attempts at casting aspersions on the worldviews or beliefs of other people.

It's evident (to me at least) that Christianity has been used as an example here. As the 'dominant religion' it is one which most people know something about.

The sad thing about this guy's thread is that there is more than an element of truth in it.

Religion is the root of all evil and is responsible for more deaths than any other disease.

That is the sad fact. People carrying out atrocities in the name of Allah or God.

Reverend:

Religion is the root of all evil and is responsible for more deaths than any other disease.

That is the sad fact. People carrying out atrocities in the name of Allah or God.

absolute nonsense, sometimes people make statements that don't make sense.

If I must say so myself, reading these post dumbfound me on the eyes of what "Christians"(me being a believer myself) say and "atheist" alike.

More people talk about their own personal beliefs about how life should be and what they see out of life, then the truthful facts of what is going on in the world, and the lives of others. As a "religion" Christianity is something that is a joke, because no one can keep something they live just out of command. I do not believe in religion, I believe in a lifestyle. A lifestyle that professes the name of God not out of law, but out of love; for that is the true Christianity.

The reason why you see the people doing radical acts in the name of "God” is because they cannot channel their anger in the right way that the bible teaches them. They are without no true foundation of love in the Word of God. For the word tells me that I should not JUDGE others (Matthew 7:1-6), that I should turn my cheek in times of anger (Matthew 5:39b), that I should not be angry without cause (Matthew 5:22-24), and I can continuously speak the truth of what the word professes. Unfortunately the people who say they are "representing" God are not justified by their actions, so do not let them be something that taints our name. Instead, overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21)! For those of you who say that religion is the "root of all evil", justify your malicious gibes at what the word says that is erroneous or fallible. I will me more then glad to listen and respond.

To the people who say "singing and mumbling prayers", do not comment on what you don’t know. For religion is following a template of laws that "mumbles" premeditated prayers. But true fellowship with the Father (God) is something just as genuine as taking to your best friend. I do not appreciate that comment.

Reverend:

Religion is the root of all evil.

Including your own.

f0d:
But did you know that about 10% of Americans consider themselves to be Atheists, doubters, or religious skeptics of some kind? That's over 25,000,000 people. Millions more, the majority of the American population, are branded with the odious label of "unchurched"; they do not attend church, mosque or temple on any regular basis (except perhaps on "holy days" to keep up appearances for friends, relatives and the community), nor do they look to religion for a moral code. Their ethics stem from a secular philosophy of life.

Perhaps that's why America has been going downhill for so long. Stop to open your eyes and see that maybe the reason we see the world going down in flames is because America and the world has turned their backs on God. But that raises the question, "Why doesn't God help us in our time of need then?" Well, I know very well that God doesn't force Himself on a person who rejects Him and, we in our own pride have forced God in the other direction. Look at what happened to Pharoah in Exodus. Never did God make Pharoah believe in what He had to say. God warned Pharoah first, and then God took what belonged to Him, the Israelites.

f0d:
Atheists often know more about the precepts and origins of religious belief than believers themselves do. We study more than just the one accepted "holy book", and we like to read the parts which churches ignore, or conveniently re-write in an effort to render religious text more palpable.

Well that's very interesting about atheists. They study a lot. However, the belief of atheism is cold whether you disagree or not. If I were, say, to murder a multitude of innocent high school students and then kill myself in the end, I suppose nothing would happen to me. There would be no gain, no loss. As a matter of fact everything in this life would be pointless. If I were to create a bomb to destroy the world and wipe away humanity, well that wouldn't be very cool, but also, it wouldn't matter. Nothing would go on after. No punishment, no one to have an opinion about it. Therefore, love, hope, happiness, faith, joy-- None of would be important. Why even spend time doing it. Compassion becomes aimless and the need for mercy is on tenuous foundation. So why do it at all. As a matter of fact, why even be arguing your point to me? Why even think? It is futile. I'm sorry (not really) but I don't live in a hopeless and cold life. God gave me a desire for Him and it's intrinsic--burning within my spirit and soul. There is more than what you see here and there is more than knowledge. Besides, where were the atheists when Katrina shook the nation? Where were the atheists when the World Trade Centers came crashing down? I don't recall any Atheist Passion for Compassion groups helping any families, putting any funds together, helping find the lost. Perhaps they were too busy with their noses buried in books gaining knowledge on religious precepts.

'If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.' ~1 Corinth. 13

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. ~ Karl Marx

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. ~ Albert Einstein

All religions are cruel, all founded on blood; for all rest principally on the idea of sacrifice-that is, on the perpetual immolation of humanity to the insatiable vengeance of divinity. ~ Mikhail Bakunin

All ,  religions show the same disparity between belief and practice, and each is safe till it tries to exclude the rest. Test each sect by its best or its worst as you will, by its high-water mark of virtue or its low-water mark of vice. But falsehood begins when you measure the ebb of any other religion against the flood-tide of your own. There is a noble and a base side to every history. ~ Thomas Wentworth Higginson

All religions, with their gods, demigods, prophets, messiahs and saints, are the product of the fancy and credulity of men who have not yet reached the full development and complete possession of their intellectual powers. ~ Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1871)

A religion, even if it calls itself a religion of love, must be hard and unloving to those who do not belong to it. ~ Sigmund Freud, Group Psychology And The Analysis Of The Ego (1921)

I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind — that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking. ~ Henry Louis Mencken

Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -— several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven. ~ Mark Twain

The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance, logic can be happily tossed out the window. ~ Stephen King

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. ~ Napoleon Bonaparte

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."
It's an oral history. It was passed down, word-of-mouth, father to son, from Adam to Seth, from Seth to Enos, from Enos to Cainan, for 40 generations, a growing, changing, story, it was handed down, word-of-mouth, father to son. Until Moses finally gets it down on lambskin. But lambskins wear out, and need to be recopied. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian, from Russian to German, from German to an old form of English that you could not read. Through 400 years of evolution of the English language to the book we have today, which is: a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
You can't put a grocery list through that many translations, copies, and re-telling, and not expect to have some big changes in the dinner menu when the kids make it back from Kroger's.
And yet people are killing each other over this written word. Here's a tip: If you're killing someone in the name of God — you're missing the message. ~ Nick Annis in the preface to God is Good.
In the long run, nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is palpable. ~ Sigmund Freud

So many gods, so many creeds;
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs. ~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox


TBC.

Idekeson:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. ~ Karl Marx

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. ~ Albert Einstein

All religions are cruel, all founded on blood; for all rest principally on the idea of sacrifice-that is, on the perpetual immolation of humanity to the insatiable vengeance of divinity. ~ Mikhail Bakunin

All ,  religions show the same disparity between belief and practice, and each is safe till it tries to exclude the rest. Test each sect by its best or its worst as you will, by its high-water mark of virtue or its low-water mark of vice. But falsehood begins when you measure the ebb of any other religion against the flood-tide of your own. There is a noble and a base side to every history. ~ Thomas Wentworth Higginson

All religions, with their gods, demigods, prophets, messiahs and saints, are the product of the fancy and credulity of men who have not yet reached the full development and complete possession of their intellectual powers. ~ Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1871)

A religion, even if it calls itself a religion of love, must be hard and unloving to those who do not belong to it. ~ Sigmund Freud, Group Psychology And The Analysis Of The Ego (1921)

I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind — that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking. ~ Henry Louis Mencken

Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -— several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven. ~ Mark Twain

The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance, logic can be happily tossed out the window. ~ Stephen King

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. ~ Napoleon Bonaparte

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."
It's an oral history. It was passed down, word-of-mouth, father to son, from Adam to Seth, from Seth to Enos, from Enos to Cainan, for 40 generations, a growing, changing, story, it was handed down, word-of-mouth, father to son. Until Moses finally gets it down on lambskin. But lambskins wear out, and need to be recopied. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian, from Russian to German, from German to an old form of English that you could not read. Through 400 years of evolution of the English language to the book we have today, which is: a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
You can't put a grocery list through that many translations, copies, and re-telling, and not expect to have some big changes in the dinner menu when the kids make it back from Kroger's.
And yet people are killing each other over this written word. Here's a tip: If you're killing someone in the name of God — you're missing the message. ~ Nick Annis in the preface to God is Good.
In the long run, nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is palpable. ~ Sigmund Freud

So many gods, so many creeds;
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs. ~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox


TBC.

yes, and a whole lot of nonsense you can post up from aitheists .

gbade. x:



yes, and a whole lot of nonsense you can post up from aitheists .

And would you be so kind to explain why you consider it nonsense?

nferyn,

Let's stop this mind game. If the first caller intended to discuss atheism, he should have plainly said so, then we can pick it up from there.

bari_kade:

nferyn,

Let's stop this mind game. If the first caller intended to discuss atheism, he should have plainly said so, then we can pick it up from there.

Ah, now it's a mind game. gbade. x posted

gbade. x:

yes, and a whole lot of nonsense you can post up from aitheists .

in reply to a topical post. Who is playing mind games here? If gbade. x calls all of that nonsense, I'd like to know why.

nferyn,

Sometimes, I wonder that those who deny the existence of God would make recourse to statements by atheists of yester-years without first checking out what they're quoting. "From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian _ _" is an example of how bogus some of these ideas are, and whoever said that obviously knew nothing of the facts on ground before letting his mouth shoot in a thousand directions. The original languages in which the Bible was written are Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. And if atheists are convinced that God does not exist, could they kindly advance tangible evidence for that idea - not mere complaints against religion and faith.

That's why I offered that if the first caller intended to discuss atheism, he should plainly say so, then we can pick it up from there.

nferyn:

And would you be so kind to explain why you consider it nonsense?

because it's nonsense, simple as abc. if you feel like turning this into argument, then bite me! it is what it is ,nonsense.

Idekeson:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. ~ Karl Marx

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. ~ Albert Einstein

All religions are cruel, all founded on blood; for all rest principally on the idea of sacrifice-that is, on the perpetual immolation of humanity to the insatiable vengeance of divinity. ~ Mikhail Bakunin

All , religions show the same disparity between belief and practice, and each is safe till it tries to exclude the rest. Test each sect by its best or its worst as you will, by its high-water mark of virtue or its low-water mark of vice. But falsehood begins when you measure the ebb of any other religion against the flood-tide of your own. There is a noble and a base side to every history. ~ Thomas Wentworth Higginson

All religions, with their gods, demigods, prophets, messiahs and saints, are the product of the fancy and credulity of men who have not yet reached the full development and complete possession of their intellectual powers. ~ Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1871)

A religion, even if it calls itself a religion of love, must be hard and unloving to those who do not belong to it. ~ Sigmund Freud, Group Psychology And The Analysis Of The Ego (1921)

I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind — that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking. ~ Henry Louis Mencken

Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -— several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven. ~ Mark Twain

The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance, logic can be happily tossed out the window. ~ Stephen King

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. ~ Napoleon Bonaparte

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."
It's an oral history. It was passed down, word-of-mouth, father to son, from Adam to Seth, from Seth to Enos, from Enos to Cainan, for 40 generations, a growing, changing, story, it was handed down, word-of-mouth, father to son. Until Moses finally gets it down on lambskin. But lambskins wear out, and need to be recopied. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian, from Russian to German, from German to an old form of English that you could not read. Through 400 years of evolution of the English language to the book we have today, which is: a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
You can't put a grocery list through that many translations, copies, and re-telling, and not expect to have some big changes in the dinner menu when the kids make it back from Kroger's.
And yet people are killing each other over this written word. Here's a tip: If you're killing someone in the name of God — you're missing the message. ~ Nick Annis in the preface to God is Good.
In the long run, nothing can withstand reason and experience, and the contradiction religion offers to both is palpable. ~ Sigmund Freud

So many gods, so many creeds;
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs. ~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox

TBC.

do you know where all these individuals are today? remember the soul never dies, oh but you may say what is a soul; but where are these people today who have openly ridiculed belief in God (not religion) and God himself?

nicetohave:

but where are these people today who have openly ridiculed belief in God (not religion) and God himself?

Good point in making that distinction, nicetohave. I was hoping that soon many people would see that some of those who have an axe to grind with religion per se actually turn their muscles on deriding God Himself. And that is the hilarious thing; because if God doesn't exist, why all the clamour in being angry at Someone who is nowhere to be found? Why get angry at a 'No-thing', an 'illusion'? Or, is it that some evidence exist in their hearts and consciences, and they are hoping that He does not exist? bari_kade makes sense in asking the first caller to clearly state his purpose.

nicetohave:

do you know where all these individuals are today? remember the soul never dies, oh but you may say what is a soul; but where are these people today who have openly ridiculed belief in God (not religion) and God himself?

Karl Mark is six feet under in Highgate Cemetary. All of the others are also six feet under, except from Stephen King, who from what I last heard, still resides in Maine with his wife and kids.

By they way, many of them did not ridicule christian God, they have mostly made astute observations about religion, and in some cases the God(s) most familiar to them.

luckaflah:

One of the most interesting threads on this forum. Keep it going please!

Correct,!!,this is one of the most interesting threads on this forum.
When we Africans will realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, I'slam and Christianity?
When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples, When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines, But when African people come to England they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. [/b]It was over 23 years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat.
We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own.
[b]When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, I'slam and Christianity?