dare2think:

-Delusion is grandiose-

Giving for the purpose of receiving

God has become an investment banker.

Why can't you give for the purpose of love rather than for the purpose to get something back?

MUMU God is not any investment banker, and stop the religious bigotry here.

You don't give to be rewarded, but there is a concession to give; God also rewards you for given.

Its also written in the bible that 'Givers never lack', so who do you think repay them?

pinkrex:

MUMU God is not any investment banker, and stop the religious bigotry here.

You don't give to be rewarded, but there is a concession to give; God also rewards you for given.

Its also written in the bible that 'Givers never lack', so who do you think repay them?

How hard is it for you that you can't portray your views without aggression or insults. 

so who do you think repay them? I dont know, probably God

Who do you think pays  people who are successful and comfortable but never give? I.e atheistic people. how many pastors or Imams do they give too. (I.e not all of them donate to charities)

dare2think:

How hard is it for you that you can't portray your views without aggression or insults. 

so who do you think repay them? I dont know, probably God

Who do you think pays  people who are successful and comfortable but never give? I.e atheistic people. how many pastors or Imams do they give too. (I.e not all of them donate to charities)

Im sorry if my approach was harsh


But i can't also seem to understand this last post and i have read it (3) times.

Apology accepted.

My point is;

There are people who actually are naturally selfish but yet possess things and are quite successful, which brings the arguament of giving to receive into contention.

I am aware God loves a cheerful giver, but giving to receive is more like a transaction with a purpose.

Giving cheerfully and with Love is what I feel is more genuine and Christian-like rather than I.e giving to a pastor that possesses 50 cars( which makes no sense). Giving to hospitals or Children in need or Family members without expecting a return is Love. ( That is cheerful giving in my opinion)

dare2think:

Apology accepted.

My point is;

There are people who actually are naturally selfish but yet possess things and are quite successful, which brings the arguament of giving to receive into contention.

I am aware God loves a cheerful giver, but giving to receive is more like a transaction with a purpose.

Giving cheerfully and with Love is what I feel is more genuine and Christian-like rather than I.e giving to a pastor that possesses 50 cars( which makes no sense). Giving to hospitals or Children in need or Family members without expecting a return is Love. ( That is cheerful giving in my opinion)

What is your own understanding of success?

suc·cess (sk-ss)
n.
1. The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted: attributed their success in business to hard work.
2.
a. The gaining of fame or prosperity: an artist spoiled by success.
b. The extent of such gain.
3. One that is successful: The plan was a success.

-sighs-

The above is my understanding of success, do you have any meaning contrary to the above?

dare2think:

suc·cess (sk-ss)
n.
1. The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted: attributed their success in business to hard work.
2.
a. The gaining of fame or prosperity: an artist spoiled by success.
b. The extent of such gain.
3. One that is successful: The plan was a success.

-sighs-

The above is my understanding of success, do you have any meaning contrary to the above?

That's just a dictionary definition and you are also entitled to your own opinion.


Success to me is to have a distinguished form of achievement modestly in everything desired.

A man with excess wealth is not successful if he doesn't enjoy his wealth. Everyone is also challenged with one form of hardship or the other at every point in life irrespective of wealth.

But when you give out and receive in moderation and you live peacefully then you can boast of success. However success is not fully attached to wealth only; at any level in life you can boast of success because it depends on how you see it.

pinkrex:

That's just a dictionary definition and you are also entitled to your own opinion.


Success to me is to have a distinguished form of achievement modestly in everything desired.

A man with excess wealth is not successful if he doesn't enjoy his wealth. Everyone is also challenged with one form of hardship or the other at every point in life irrespective of wealth.

But when you give out and receive in moderation and you live peacefully then you can boast of success. However success is not fully attached to wealth only; at any level in life you can boast of success because it depends on how you see it.

Yes, the dictionary's definition is my understanding of success. I however agree with yours as well, Success is very subjective and dependant upon each individual.
So as well is the case of "giving to recieve", its subjective. If you feel a person needs to give to receive then its probably your mantra but it does not mean its applicable to everyone  because not everyone shares that believe.


Pls can you expantiate on the bolded, what do you mean in "giving and receiving in moderation"?

By the way, I believe in Giving if you have , I just dont subscribe to giving with the intention to recieve

dare2think:

Yes, the dictionary's definition is my understanding of success. I however agree with yours as well, Success is very subjective and dependant upon each individual.
So as well is the case of "giving to recieve", its subjective. If you feel a person needs to give to receive then its probably your mantra but it does not mean its applicable to everyone  because not everyone shares that believe.


Pls can you expantiate on the bolded, what do you mean in "giving and receiving in moderation"?

By the way, I believe in Giving if you have , I just dont subscribe to giving with the intention to recieve

You shouldn't give give out excessively especially to your detriment, and you don't also receive excessively and absorb all you receive.

When you give, you should naturally have no expectation to receive back because where you'll get it back from is not guaranteed; however you can hope for God to enrich you more for it is written and promised in the Bible.


I have answered you o, you are just sticking to your opinion and that's the problem.

pinkrex:

You shouldn't give give out excessively especially to your detriment, and you don't also receive excessively and absorb all you receive.

When you give, you should naturally have no expectation to receive back because where you'll get it back from is not guaranteed; however you can hope for God to enrich you more for it is written and promised in the Bible.


I have answered you o, you are just sticking to your opinion and that's the problem.

The bolded is my opinion. Sticking to my opinion is not the problem, there is no problem just difference in opinions.

Giving out of love and not of expectations is what I believe in.

dare2think:

The bolded is my opinion. Sticking to my opinion is not the problem, there is no problem just difference in opinions. 

Giving out of love and not of expectations is what I believe in.

You give out of love because you are moved right? God will be moved by your giving too, so he compensate you. It is written in the bible na.

pinkrex:

You give out of love because you are moved right? God will be moved by your giving too, so he compensates you. It is written in the bible na.

Lol, if you say so.

dare2think:

Lol, if you say so.

Bad guy, you just highlighted my incorrect spellings

pinkrex:

Bad guy, you just highlighted my incorrect spellings

Actually I wasn't, I'm not like that (I dont know it all, to highlight your mistakes)

Was just highlighting God rewarding our givings.

Joagbaje:

[b]You misunderstand the scripture [/b]dude. It the bible says the giver is more blessed . That doesn't mean the receiver is poorer. It simply means. That no matter how much you give, what you recieve is far greater. Get it?

Secondly it's not just about listening to pastor chris. It's about the atmosphere I carry. If I constsntly give I also constsntly recieve ,it can be from n unbeliever , God puts my desire in the hearts of men. So either he listen to pastor chris or not.  He will give to me. It is about what I'd done. If I find myself in Saudi , they will still give to me.

What scripture? Did i mention anything about anyone being poorer? Is all your dream about someone giving to you or your church/pastor?
i've already got what i needed sha,thanks. i.e it is possible to be more blessed than you are without living in your realm.

Image123:

What scripture? Did i mention anything about anyone being poorer?

You asked me "who is more blessed between the giver and receiver"  that's scripture , then you said the deeper life brother is richer than me. Thats where you did wrong interpretation which I tried to correct.

Is all your dream about someone giving to you or your church/pastor?

Thou sayeth , All I care is souls been saved and man fulfilling their destinies. I believe in the full counsel of God. Not myopic and hypocritical view.

i've already got what i needed sha,thanks. i.e it is possible to be more blessed than you are without living in your realm.

Well I hope my explanation above clears your wrong theology .  We all have the same inheritance in christ.

Let me throw more light for you . If an unbeliever gives a gift to a christian does that make him richer than the christian? So review your theology in that light. There is no competition of wealth among us Christians , we have the same inheritance in christ. It's carnal to even imagine it.

^
i asked you who's more blessed between you Jo and the deeper life man, and you said the man is most blessed. i didn't say anybody was richer or poorer. You confirmed that it's possible to be more blessed than you are outside the confines of YOUR theology. What's the christian doing collecting ridiculous gifts from unbelievers? Are you a child of Abraham or of Gehazi? That's the attitude that's caught up with some churches collecting tithes and offerings from known sinners. You have your reward. i've already got what i need, thanks, don't bother yourself more.n sinners. You have your reward. i've already got what i need, thanks, don't bother yourself more.

^^^^ and what makes you think the deeper life brother does not share Jo Agbaje's theology? Are you one of those who divide Christians along denominational lines?

FYI, the message knows no denomination! Christians, regardless of denomination, become aware of the full package in Christ, and key into it.

Yes it seems incredible to some people because of the state of their minds.

Image123:

i asked you who's more blessed between you Jo and the deeper life man, and you said the man is most blessed.

Well I assumed you were talking in the light of scripture.  Because I would not have imagined you doing comparison between me and the guy "who is richer or more blessed"    Are we in competition? that's not a spiritual question , I would not have answered you if i knew that's the direction you're going. I never said CEC members are richer in things than another church. I've always said prosperity is not in "things" or material acquisition.

You confirmed that it's possible to be more blessed than you are outside the confines of YOUR theology

It's not an issue of theology, there is no theology, the word of zgod is for us all to act upon.

. What's the christian doing collecting ridiculous gifts from unbelievers? Are you a child of Abraham or of Gehazi?

God can bless us through anybody,and anyone who comes in contact with me will never be the same. if your boss gives you a raise, or you recieve a wedding gift from relatives who are Christians ,will you throw it back at their face.  Did Jesus throw the prosti.tute who poured perfume at his feet out? . God never rejected sinners in the bible who gave .so long as they do it with right intention .Queen od shebba and many others gave gifts to Solomon.

Proverbs 13:22
. . , and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

That's the attitude that's caught up with some churches collecting tithes and offerings from known sinners.

People give tithes in their churches and if they , sin does that have anything to do with their giving? So long as they are Christians . Dont you sin?

You have your reward.

I didn't do anything for the guy , he said God told him. he is the one being blessed by the grace upon me. As i give too i get blessed. Let's end this petty talk abeg. Okay maybe what you want to hear is . You deepes are richer than we CEC , alright. So be it. I hope that makes you feel better,

pls you guys should take it easy on pastor chris, he is strill a man of God. everyone has their flaws

@Joagbaje

Well I assumed you were talking in the light of scripture.

Maybe next time you'd assume i'm talking in the darkness of my physics textbook. i asked you a straight forward question mr. And you've given a straight forward and honest answer, dunno why you've then decide to complicate things.

Because I would not have imagined you doing comparison between me and the guy "who is richer or more blessed"    Are we in competition? that's not a spiritual question , I would not have answered you if i knew that's the direction you're going. I never said CEC members are richer in things than another church. I've always said prosperity is not in "things" or material acquisition.

It seems you've misunderstood me. Maybe due to the replies of your fellow members who i clearly was not talking to. Again i've not said anything about anyone been richer or poorer, it seems that is hurting you. i hereby declare you richerr if that makes you happy.

It's not an issue of theology, there is no theology, the word of zgod is for us all to act upon.

see, you don't have the same theology with many other churches. It's not just deeperlife. deeper is just a case study because you mentioned it. If you mentioned anglican or baptist, the question would've come the same way. i'm discussing with you in a general universal way, don't know why your members came in flashing overprotectives for CE, now you've joined them. It's common knowledge(at least on nl) that CE doesn't think itself a pentecostal church, and usually refer to other christians who don't share same views as 'some folk, other folk' in preachings. So don't come here typing "there is no theology".

God can bless us through anybody,and anyone who comes in contact with me will never be the same. if your boss gives you a raise, or you recieve a wedding gift from relatives who are Christians ,will you throw it back at their face.  Did Jesus throw the prosti.tute who poured perfume at his feet out? . God never rejected sinners in the bible who gave .so long as they do it with right intention .Queen od shebba and many others gave gifts to Solomon.

i believe this is what i said "What's the christian doing collecting ridiculous gifts from unbelievers? Are you a child of Abraham or of Gehazi?". i'm certain you know what adjectives are? Don't misunderstand me on that. Your boss giving you a raise, or a wedding gift is not ridiculous, except the gift/raise itself is ridiculous. You're always free to decline from collecting, you were created a free moral agent, having ability to choose and to make sane decisions. (. . but wisdom is profitable to direct.Eccl 10:10b)

Dan 5:17  Then Daniel answered and said before the king, Let thy gifts be to thyself, and give thy rewards to another; yet I will read the writing unto the king, and make known to him the interpretation.
The sinner woman who anointed Jesus'feet came with weeping and penitence and received forgiveness of sins. She did not come to bless Jesus, or sow a seed into His life, hoping to receive a hundred bottles/boxes of oil in return. And God did reject sinners and their gifts.(Isaiah 1v11-15, Amos 5v21-24)

Ezekiel 20:39  As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.

Malachi 1:10  Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for naught? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for naught. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
Jeremiah 6:20  To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me.
1Samuel 15:22  And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Psa 50:16  But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
ETC.
Also the queen of Sheba did not give ridiculous and purposeless gifts. The account is in 1kings 10v1-10. excerpts

1Kings 10:1  And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the LORD, she came to prove him with hard questions.
1Ki 10:3  And Solomon told her all her questions: there was not any thing hid from the king, which he told her not.

1Ki 10:4a  And when the queen of Sheba had seen all
1Ki 10:10a  And she gave.
If you missed verse1, you should not miss the whole passage and the context that she believed in God and gave God the glory. And that's what Jesus was particular about when He JUSTIFIED her in the new testament. Add this as well to get a better picture

2Chronicles 9:12  And king Solomon gave to the queen of Sheba all her desire, whatsoever she asked, beside that which she had brought unto the king. So she turned, and went away to her own land, she and her servants.
Matthew 12:42  The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
She was more righteous than the generation Jesus lived with and i can say more righteous than the sinners/unbelievers you attempt to compare her with, [s]you this piece of Jo. Don't you ever in you life try to hide behind this innocent woman in your life again[/s], attempting to justify churches receiving gifts from sinners and you receiving gifts from unbelievers.

People give tithes in their churches and if they , sin does that have anything to do with their giving? So long as they are Christians . Dont you sin?

Oui, it does. Their giving becomes stinking to the heavens. Don't you have any shame? People like you are so quick to claim Abraham's blessings, God's promises and covenant to Abraham, but you frown at his character, conduct and example, and at the examples of men of God like Elisha who had the double portion, men that walked with God.

Gen 14:21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
Gen 14:22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
Gen 14:23  That I will not take from a thread even to to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
1Kings 13:7  And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward.
1Kings 13:8  And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place:

2Corinth 12:14  Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.
2Kings 5:20  But Gehazi, the servant of Elisha the man of God, said, Behold, my master hath spared Naaman this Syrian, in not receiving at his hands that which he brought: but, as the LORD liveth, I will run after him, and take somewhat of him.
When you sing of the faith of our fathers, i wonder whose faith you're sing of, Abraham's or the faith of Gehazi.
1John 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I didn't do anything for the guy , he said God told him. he is the one being blessed by the grace upon me. As i give too i get blessed. Let's end this petty talk abeg. Okay maybe what you want to hear is . You deepes are richer than we CEC , alright. So be it. I hope that makes you feel better,

thought i mentioned more than once that "i've already got what i need, thanks, don't bother yourself more."?

Oui, it does. Their giving becomes stinking to the heavens. Don't you have any shame? People like you are so quick to claim Abraham's blessings,

So if a man has committed a sin as a christian , his offering has becomevan abomination? . Is that what scriptures say?
It religious people like you that see others as stains because they id wrong but you are neither perfect. You keep log in your Eyes and condemn others .

God's promises and covenant to Abraham, but you frown at his character, conduct and example, and at the examples of men of God like Elisha who had the double portion, men that walked with God.

Tell me how did I frown at his character?

Joagbaje:

So if a man has committed a sin as a christian , his offering has becomevan abomination? . Is that what scriptures say?
It religious people like you that see others as stains because they id wrong but you are neither perfect. You keep log in your Eyes and condemn others .

Tell me how did I frown at his character?

It'll help you to keep quiet, and repent where necessary.

NIGERIA @ 51 IS IT WORTH CELEBRATING ?

Is it the fact that there is still the threat of malaria in a country that has the resources to eradicate the disease? Or are we waiting for the West, even at 51, to solve that problem for us?

Mr President, what are we really celebrating at 51? Is it the decaying infrastructure that was built by past governments that had lesser resources than the governments of later years?

Is it the fact that there is no electricity in a country that is 51?

Unfortunately we pretend that there is a foundation. Until, the basic things and the enabling infrastructure, human capacity to be produced through a good education system and free and fair elections have being achieved, no meaningful development can take place. If we were not clowns, how in hell could we believe that a banana republic like Nigeria would become one of the most developed 20 Economies in 2020. As if the rest of the world, especially those ahead of us, would stand still and watch us overtake them.

@ all of you

Am shocked at those of you who are fond of perpetrating and propagating Lucifer's ideas by always showing and exhibiting your ignorance and hatred for Pastors that are well to do and rich

What on earth is your problem? It shows your poor and impoverished background that you have refused to let go. What is your own sef? The guy is rich, so what?

Lets look at this scenery: if the guy is poor, struggling and terrible. Will it make you happy (the so called rich Pastors antagonists)?

Can you see your pathetic nature and devilish ambitions? In fact, people should beware of such humans like you (the so called rich Pastors antagonists), am very positive and convinced that you are agents from the pit of hell. Your work is to cause confusion, talk down and rubbish Pastors so that you can propagate your demonic doctrines you were sent to teach.

I advise you (the so called rich Pastors antagonists) to shut your mouths up and be informed that your opinions are not acceptable.

Finally, you can happily embrace poverty that you preach and live in the dungs of life

Sebi God blesses his followers?? or so the bible says. So why should this be a surprise??
Do pastors have to wallow in poverty to be genuine?

Truth be told, there is absolutely no reason for religious leader Acquiring so much wealth. Also remember to ponder on oyedepo's two private jet and not just pastor chris, I wonder who uses the jets if not family members and business tycoons/partners,

Note that the amount for two private jets converted to cash and estimated to the population of Nigeria can at least give everyone both adult's and children 25,000 naira each, What a world, Think for yourself people,

this pastor was command by jesus to give up all his wealth yet he uses his church to grow rich robbing them making money out of the word of God this man is shame and disgrace pastor will wish to trade all this in on judgment day but it wont save him the bible say much is given much shall be asked of you he teach doctrines of devils

(N.I.V) 1 Corinthians 9:18 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.

(K.J.V) 1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
2 Corinthians 2:17 (New International Version,)
17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
2 Corinthians 2:17 (King James Version)
17For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:6 I may indeed be untrained as a speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way. 7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?

Several years ago, a preacher from out-of-state accepted a call to a church in Houston , Texas . Some weeks after he arrived, he had an occasion to ride the bus from his home to the downtown area. When he sat down, he discovered that the driver had accidentally given him a quarter too much change, As he considered what to do, he thought to himself, 'You'd better give the quarter back. It would be wrong to keep it.' Then he thought, 'Oh, forget it, it's only a quarter. Who would worry about this little amount? Anyway, the bus company gets too much fare; they will never miss it. Accept it as a 'gift from God' and keep quiet.' When his stop came, he paused momentarily at the door, and then he handed the quarter to the driver and said, 'Here,you gave me too much change , ' The driver, with a smile, replied, 'Aren't you the new preacher in town?' 'Yes' he replied. 'Well, I have been thinking a lot lately about going somewhere to worship. I just wanted to see what you would do if I gave you too much change. I'll see you at
church on Sunday.' When the preacher stepped off of the bus, he literally grabbed the nearest light pole, held on, and said, 'Oh God, I almost sold your Son for a quarter.' Our lives are the only Bible some people will ever read. This is a really scary example of how much people watch us as Christians, and will put us to the test! Always be on guard -- and remember -- You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.' Watch your thoughts ; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits, Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. I'm glad a friend forwarded this to me as a reminder. So, I choose to forward it to you - my friend. God bless you. If you forward it, you wld have ministered to someone today.

^

What is the intent of the storyteller here,

and what message is he or she trying to convey? Is it a worthwhile one?

Some questions are in order to determine the answer:

What would the driver have surmised if the preacher was not paying attention to his change and did not return the quarter?

Was the driver judging after the appearance?

How would he know if the preacher was a Pharisee in spirit,

one who gave alms, fasted, prayed, “tithed  mint, rue, and cumin,”

returned unwarranted change, but ignored the weightier matters of the Law?

What kind of Savior is Jesus Christ if the driver should stumble over an error or deliberate offense on the part of the preacher?

What chance is there for mankind if it is dependent upon the virtue of mankind?

Is the salvation of another a matter of chance and human virtue, or is it guaranteed by the finished work of Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection?

Is Jesus Christ supposed to be saving the driver, or is the preacher supposed to be saving Jesus Christ?

Has the driver never experienced anyone not professing faith in Christ returning that which did not belong to them?

Perhaps it could be argued that the driver was merely preliminarily testing the waters.

If the driver was looking for a place to worship, should not the preacher have been speaking the truth of John 4 to him?:

“Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither worship the Father in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:21-24 MKJV).

If Jesus could save us when we were yet sinners - His enemies, caring nothing for Him, indeed, hating Him - need we live in fear, anxiously grasping lampposts once we are His, lest we should offend?

Will He only have strength to carry us so far, compelling us to take responsibility for the rest of the way, or is He as He declared Himself to be, the Alpha and the Omega, the Author and Finisher of our faith?

This story is another primo sappy story, very fleshly. It is unreal and manipulative.

The bus driver’s conclusions about the preacher are not valid, and the preacher’s conclusions about the Lord and the bus driver are not valid.

Many people would give the quarter back. Catch Hitler at the right moment, and he would, too. So do you go follow him as a man of God?

The driver, or more truthfully, the storyteller, is caught by his cleverness, going by his own signs and criteria, not God’s.

Satan can be very clever and moralistic, especially if it involves and celebrates the righteousness of man.

In this respect, the driver and the preacher, creations of our storyteller, are two peas in a pod. Both are walking in their own righteousness.

This story is a promotion of false Christianity, that is, man made.

The preacher could not sell what he did not have. He did not have the Lord. What he was wrestling with was his conscience. He may have sold his conscience for a quarter, but not God’s Son. And had the preacher sold his conscience, failing the bus driver’s test, the bus driver would only have missed going to that preacher’s service. Presumably, he would not have stopped looking for a church to attend.

Imagine Jesus grasping a lamppost, so relieved He had not almost blown it! That could never happen to an omnipotent, holy Savior. So those who are Christ’s true ministers have their faith in Him, and not in their fallibility to represent Him; they know better, knowing Him. Neither do true ministers of Christ permit or indulge seekers to place their faith in them.

But that still does not ensure that the bus driver was looking for God; in fact, the driver’s criteria to discern true worth in an alleged man of God could very well say otherwise. If God were drawing him, he would not have been testing anyone in that way – God would have inspired him differently.

If a man is truly searching for God, he is not looking for a man or church. Neither will a thousand lying preachers and angels keep him away from Christ, because God is drawing him, and who or what can prevent God? Darkness compels the true seeker towards the Light.

To paraphrase the Scriptures, man’s unrighteousness commends God’s righteousness, and the Truth of God abounds through men’s lies (Romans 3:3 and following).

As for the “Watch your whatevers” at the end of this document, it is true that thoughts may lead to words and actions, actions to habits, habits to character, and we become what we choose to think, speak, and do. It is true that we serve as examples for others and should therefore be careful that we are not a cause of stumbling.

Now what shall we do? Shall we trust in our own strength, or shall we trust the Lord to deliver us because we are without strength? Is He in our hands, or are we in His? Just who is the potter, and who is the clay?

Victor Hafichuk
Paul Cohen

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/sappystories/busdriver.htm

Poster leave the man alone na. I am not a member of his church neither is he a relative. I don't even fancy the man or listen to his preachings but I'm just against us criticizing each on religious grounds. The best we can do is live right and believe me you would have influenced the life of someone around you. I doubt if anyone converts to/from any religion after reading nairaland posts.

Daiquiri:

^

What is the intent of the storyteller here,

and what message is he or she trying to convey? Is it a worthwhile one?

Some questions are in order to determine the answer:

What would the driver have surmised if the preacher was not paying attention to his change and did not return the quarter?

Was the driver judging after the appearance?

How would he know if the preacher was a Pharisee in spirit,

one who gave alms, fasted, prayed, “tithed mint, rue, and cumin,”

returned unwarranted change, but ignored the weightier matters of the Law?

What kind of Savior is Jesus Christ if the driver should stumble over an error or deliberate offense on the part of the preacher?

What chance is there for mankind if it is dependent upon the virtue of mankind?

Is the salvation of another a matter of chance and human virtue, or is it guaranteed by the finished work of Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection?

Is Jesus Christ supposed to be saving the driver, or is the preacher supposed to be saving Jesus Christ?

[b]Has the driver never experienced anyone not professing faith in Christ returning that which did not belong to them[b]? Perhaps it could be argued that the driver was merely preliminarily testing the waters.

If the driver was looking for a place to worship, should not the preacher have been speaking the truth of John 4 to him?:

“Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither worship the Father in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:21-24 MKJV).

If Jesus could save us when we were yet sinners - His enemies, caring nothing for Him, indeed, hating Him - need we live in fear, anxiously grasping lampposts once we are His, lest we should offend?

Will He only have strength to carry us so far, compelling us to take responsibility for the rest of the way, or is He as He declared Himself to be, the Alpha and the Omega, the Author and Finisher of our faith?

This story is another primo sappy story, very fleshly. It is unreal and manipulative. [/b]

The bus driver’s conclusions about the preacher are not valid, and the preacher’s conclusions about the Lord and the bus driver are not valid.

Many people would give the quarter back. Catch Hitler at the right moment, and he would, too. So do you go follow him as a man of God?

The driver, or more truthfully, the storyteller, is caught by his cleverness, going by his own signs and criteria, not God’s.

Satan can be very clever and moralistic, especially if it involves and celebrates the righteousness of man.

In this respect, the driver and the preacher, creations of our storyteller, are two peas in a pod. Both are walking in their own righteousness.

This story is a promotion of false Christianity, that is, man made.

The preacher could not sell what he did not have. He did not have the Lord. What he was wrestling with was his conscience. He may have sold his conscience for a quarter, but not God’s Son. And had the preacher sold his conscience, failing the bus driver’s test, the bus driver would only have missed going to that preacher’s service. Presumably, he would not have stopped looking for a church to attend.

Imagine Jesus grasping a lamppost, so relieved He had not almost blown it! That could never happen to an omnipotent, holy Savior. So those who are Christ’s true ministers have their faith in Him, and not in their fallibility to represent Him; they know better, knowing Him. Neither do true ministers of Christ permit or indulge seekers to place their faith in them.

But that still does not ensure that the bus driver was looking for God; in fact, the driver’s criteria to discern true worth in an alleged man of God could very well say otherwise. If God were drawing him, he would not have been testing anyone in that way – God would have inspired him differently.

If a man is truly searching for God, he is not looking for a man or church. Neither will a thousand lying preachers and angels keep him away from Christ, because God is drawing him, and who or what can prevent God? Darkness compels the true seeker towards the Light.

To paraphrase the Scriptures, man’s unrighteousness commends God’s righteousness, and the Truth of God abounds through men’s lies (Romans 3:3 and following).

As for the “Watch your whatevers” at the end of this document, it is true that thoughts may lead to words and actions, actions to habits, habits to character, and we become what we choose to think, speak, and do. It is true that we serve as examples for others and should therefore be careful that we are not a cause of stumbling.

Now what shall we do? Shall we trust in our own strength, or shall we trust the Lord to deliver us because we are without strength? Is He in our hands, or are we in His? Just who is the potter, and who is the clay?

Victor Hafichuk
Paul Cohen

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/sappystories/busdriver.htm

^^^Wow! The above should be nominated for POST OF THE YEAR -Religion section.