The whole God thing is interesting, but how many people actually believe in math?

^^^I believe in God because of math. the relationship between numbers would exist whether humans were here or not. "God is a mathematician of a very high order".

I was worse at math when I was a christian than I am this time around in school as a secular humanist. Hmmm.

God is a matter of Faith. And Math is a matter of science. So tell me how do you believe in something that is not a matter of faith?

Aringarosa:

I just explained to you, you can. Because there are thousands of other religions who have different rules on how to get to their version of heaven. You are also disqualifying the possibility of a God who would reward atheists and punish theists.

And I say if you start arguing with something that is illogical then all bets are off. I could come up with any illogical explanation for the beginning of the universe. What is the difference between God making the universe and the chimney puffing the universe into existence? This chimney is also outside space and time and also breaks your rules.

Anyway. I don't think we would agree on this one. It seems like you are not getting my points and I might not be getting your points. But I appreciate the lively debate. I have to go to work 

Perhaps I should be very specific with terminology and state: The variables and factors/conditions of which I speak are distilled down to three basic things. Energy, Matter and Space-Time. Why do they exist? Why do we exist as we do? Where did we come from, why are we here and where are we going? Axiomatically, we are a bit more than just a "Flame" that is then blown out.' The Greek philosophers stated often, that we are the result of the "Universe trying to understand itself". Interesting Metaphysics but circular in nature. I'm left with the impression that many who try to explain the existence "of it all" are confusing that pursuit with the mechanics or nature of the creative force. It is almost a case of confusing the Why with the How. In other words, the pursuit of proving the existence of a Creator does not require an explanation of the qualities a Creator may or may not possess. Thank you for your time, work is a familiar reality.

Concerning Pascal's Wager: The point was to illustrate that it might be better to seek Good for its' own sake rather than seeking Good over Evil based on a system of Rewards and Punishments/Positive and Negative Reinforcements. Rather, acting with the proper intent and motivation according to one's design. An Aristotilean concept. To perhaps, seek the creator over creation. Believing that God is literally our creator and not our creation?




One God not many. One "Paradise" not many. Monotheism v.s. another version of Pantheism. Atheism is antithetical to a God and therefore no God, by Ontological definition would reward atheists. Perhaps an Atheist God who does not believe in himself? A case for a "No(such)Thing.

^^^@White007 - You don't seem like you want to read about legitimate explanations but I will try. Jesus may have been a great man. 30-100 years after his death, others may have written about him in a way that made him out to be the sun of god. He may not have been a lunatic, liar or Lord, but those that wrote about them could have been the prior two.

I am an atheist, and yes, i would say that i am an astute person, so i guess this article makes sense, but in response to some of the comments: I would never ever tell a christian, or any other religious person to stop believing in god/religion. Religion is something that cannot be argued because it's a faith based system, and faith when it comes to religion means believing in it without question, I'm pretty sure that's a basic component in most religions.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to try to "prove" religious people "wrong," because religious people do not want/need physical, hard proof to believe in god. I, personally am not comfortable believing something without questioning it, but I have no problem with people who do, nor do i think i am better, as long as it's a positive message, and you're not hurting yourself or anyone else (physically or emotionally) or forcing people to believe what you believe, I don't really care what you believe in. There are worse messages that people are spreading to the world. The world needs positivity in any way, shape, or form.

I believe only because I questioned and can’t deny the hard truth within myself and everything around me.

Those with little or no faith have more than enough “proof” of a creator by the millions of footprints God left behind.

Just Google “Intelligent Design” It’s impossible to dismiss all the undeniable proof that we and everything around us have been intelligently designed.

Now it’s your job to figure out what God is the most likely creator.

I’m going with the God of the Bible, The Bible that predicted hundreds of facts that have already come true and are still coming true today.

Opus-deii:

I am an atheist, and yes, i would say that i am an astute person, so i guess this article makes sense, but in response to some of the comments: I would never ever tell a christian, or any other religious person to stop believing in god/religion. Religion is something that cannot be argued because it's a faith based system, and faith when it comes to religion means believing in it without question, I'm pretty sure that's a basic component in most religions.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to try to "prove" religious people "wrong," because religious people do not want/need physical, hard proof to believe in god. I, personally am not comfortable believing something without questioning it, but I have no problem with people who do, nor do i think i am better, as long as it's a positive message, and you're not hurting yourself or anyone else (physically or emotionally) or forcing people to believe what you believe, I don't really care what you believe in. There are worse messages that people are spreading to the world. The world needs positivity in any way, shape, or form.

You are the first Atheist I have ever seen that is not a God,Christian hater. you have a good heart there is always hope.

Frazy:

1)I believe only because I questioned and can’t deny the hard truth within myself and everything around me.

Those with little or no faith have more than enough “proof” of a creator by the millions of footprints God left behind.

2) Just Google “Intelligent Design” It’s impossible to dismiss all the undeniable proof that we and everything around us have been intelligently designed.

3) Now it’s your job to figure out what God is the most likely creator.

4) I’m going with the God of the Bible, The Bible that predicted hundreds of facts that have already come true and are still coming true today.

1) What maybe proof for you may not be for another person.
2) It is possible to dismiss it, maybe just not lightly
3) Basically, your premise is, a supreme being definitely created the world, and its a question of which one. I can understand that
4) This is the main one. Are you aware of the history of the church and the bible ? If you are, how can you take this position above ? Do you feel the bible is infallible and inerrant ?
About the hundreds of facts, what facts (are you also including prophecy in "facts"? ) ?
What do you make of the scientific errors in the bible ?

Opus-deii:

I am an atheist, and yes, i would say that i am an astute person, so i guess this article makes sense, but in response to some of the comments: I would never ever tell a christian, or any other religious person to stop believing in god/religion. Religion is something that cannot be argued because it's a faith based system, and faith when it comes to religion means believing in it without question,  I'm pretty sure that's a basic component in most religions.

My point is that it doesn't make sense to try to "prove" religious people "wrong," because religious people do not want/need physical, hard proof to believe in god. I, personally am not comfortable believing something without questioning it, but I have no problem with people who do, nor do i think i am better,  as long as it's a positive message, and you're not hurting yourself or anyone else (physically or emotionally) or forcing people to believe what you believe, I don't really care what you believe in. There are worse messages that people are spreading to the world. The world needs positivity in any way, shape, or form.

I Think the bolded statement should be:

Religion is something that cannot be proven because it is a faith based system, and faith when it comes to anything means believing in it without full understanding,

There are very solid, logical arguments for religion, but in the end, faith is necessary, whether you're an Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim. Every belief system, has gaps needing to be filled by faith.

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”
Thomas Jefferson

One can and definitely should question their faith, I did, I do and I will.

tyson55:


I Think the bolded statement should be:

Religion is something that cannot be proven because it is a faith based system, and faith when it comes to anything means believing in it without full understanding,

There are very solid, logical arguments for religion, but in the end, faith is necessary, whether you're an Atheist, Christian, Jew, Muslim. Every belief system, has gaps needing to be filled by faith.

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”
Thomas Jefferson

One can and definitely should question their faith, I did, I do and I will.

Christians, Muslims Jews are based on faith. Is Atheism based on Faith?

^^ If You Think About It; Atheism Is A Faith Also.

For Having A Complete Lack Of Any Empirical Evidence To The Contrary, One Chooses To Believe In The Non-Existence Of God(s). Therefore The Complete Denial Of God(s) Is Also Considered Leap Of Faith.

Is It Not?

Jenny20:

^^ If You Think About It; Atheism Is A Faith Also.

For Having A Complete Lack Of Any Empirical Evidence To The Contrary, One Chooses To Believe In The Non-Existence Of God(s). Therefore The Complete Denial Of God(s) Is Also Considered Leap Of Faith.

Is It Not?

Atheism isn't based on faith, it is the lack of. . . . Just like "off" isn't a tv channel, or "bald" isn't a hair color.

Atheism is the opium of Karl Marx and his foolish followers !!!   

White007:

Atheism isn't based on faith, it is the lack of. . . . Just like "off" isn't a tv channel, or "bald" isn't a hair color.

There's some element of faith involved. It doesn't mean that theists are let off the hook of providing a coherent argument for their gods, though. Nor, should it be automatically assumed that it is religious faith.

Nope. Faith requires a belief in something without evidence to support it. Not believing in something because there's no evidence to support it, is the opposite of faith not just a different version of faith.

Most people makes the mistake of assuming atheism is based *entirely* on a random decision not to believe in deities. Most atheists didn't just decide not to believe in gods, they saw substantial empirical evidence that directly contradicts every single claim made by every religion on the planet and then moved to the logical conclusion that the religions based on verifiably false information are, more likely than not, wrong.

People who don't believe in God get nothing when they die, if they are right. People who do believe in God get nothing if they are wrong. People who don't believe in God have a serious problem if they're wrong, whereas people who do believe in God get heaven if they are right. I think logic says God is the safer bet. One has from nothing to real bad, the other has from nothing to real good. Do the math on that.

Frazy:

People who don't believe in God get nothing when they die, if they are right. People who do believe in God get nothing if they are wrong. People who don't believe in God have a serious problem if they're wrong, whereas people who do believe in God get heaven if they are right. I think logic says God is the safer bet. One has from nothing to real bad, the other has from nothing to real good. Do the math on that.

That s called Pacals wager, YAWN. Consider the 'math' on THIS then:

Since there have been many religions throughout history, and therefore MANY conceptions of gods, then the possibility of all of them need to be factored into the wager. This would lead to a high probability of believing in the wrong god, which destroys the mathematical advantage Pascal claimed with his Wager.

Also, if you choose to believe in 'god' in order to increase your chances of getting into heaven, thats called 'inauthetic' belief, which is inherently dishonest. In addition, it is absurd to think that God, being just and omniscient, would not be able to see through this deceptive strategy on behalf of the "believer", nullifying the benefits of the wager.

Frazy:

People who don't believe in God get nothing when they die, if they are right. People who do believe in God get nothing if they are wrong. People who don't believe in God have a serious problem if they're wrong, whereas people who do believe in God get heaven if they are right. I think logic says God is the safer bet. One has from nothing to real bad, the other has from nothing to real good. Do the math on that.

If you truly believe in a god then you must agree with some basic principles. First, that a god is perfect. Second, that sending someone to hell for not believing is vengeful. Third, that vengeance is a sin. Fourth, that sin is an imperfection. Fifth, that a god cannot be both perfect and vengeful. Lastly, that for a god to exist then lack of faith cannot result in eternal damnation.

.

You atheists are helping the adversary, enemy of God, who is satan.
You stamp out Christianity and what do you think will rise in its place?
Islam or Communism? Either way you will worship the state in communism with little rights and with Islam ....well you should know by now what they say about unbelievers.

Frazy: You atheists are helping the adversary, enemy of God, who is satan.
You stamp out Christianity and what do you think will rise in its place?
Islam or Communism? Either way you will worship the state in communism with little rights and [b]with Islam ....[/b]well you should know by now what they say about unbelievers.

They will be bombed to smitten

Wow! Nice debate