Ever since the Arab spring started in December 2010,a particular question has been coming to my mind frequently which is North Africa countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria and Libya part of Africa(Black) or Arabs nations geographically or politically.
Reasons for my question:
1. North African countries people don’t look black but more of Arabs,speak and write Arabic language officially.

2.When UN wanted to authorized a NO - FLY – ZONE in Libya it seek the support of Arab League and not African Union before NATO started air attack on Libya

3. All North African countries are Islamic nation unlike other African (Black) countries with a mix of many religions officially.

4. No Egyptian, Tunisian, Moroccan or Algerian was killed by the rebels because they all look alike but Nigerians and other Blacks were killed because it was alleged that they were mercenaries of Ghadafi but no Arab mercenaries was killed

5. Whatever happens in North Africa is replicated in other Arab countries e.g,the Arab spring started in Tunisia and now it is in Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and others but in no other African (Black) country.

6. Ghadafi wanted to be King of Kings in Africa because other Arab countries isolated him especially Saudi-Arabia.

Your candid answers will enable me understand who North African people are because each time I try, I end up more confused.

1. Libya is an African country, with Arabized Africans, who are probably mixed to some extent. We cannot forget that there are native tauregs in libya, baghara, and bedouins which tend to favor the "black africans" you speak of. Even many berbers, have strong black features and look mulatto.

Many libyans appear to be black or mixed with black, but based on skin color they consider themselves different. Even Ghaddafi has black features, saif in some pictures appears to actually be a black man.

2. The UN asked for the Arab League because they knew the Arab league would approve. They never considered the African Union to be credible because Ghaddafi founded it. Also, the African nations on the council did not force the UNSC to include them in the resolution. This is a failure on the part of that organization.

3. Most North African countries were under the rule of the Ottoman Empire which was Islamic. Muslims tend to kill anyone who is not muslim, so that's why many people moved south after they invaded.

4. If black libyans were killed, what makes you think no egyptians, tunisians, etc died? Nubians and Chadians who both are considered "arabs" were being killed right along with everyone other black person. Did you know that the scenes in "Inception" where they were supposed to be in Mombassa, Kenya were all filmed in Morrocco? Did you see all those black people?

5. The Arab/Western media reported it as the Arab spring. What you did not know was that at the same time, Uganda, Djibouti, Guinea, and I believe Burkina Faso or Burundi rose up. Anyway, it didnt fit the narrative with what the West wanted to do so it didnt receive coverage.

6. That is partially true. He has always defended Africa though, even when he was "pan-arab", I prefer to use the term "pan-islamist" because it makes more sense of the way he was spending his money on all those terrorists or revolutionaries around Africa.

@Poster, Libya is most definitely an Arab country, that happens to be in Africa. Even Libyans know and embrace this. Same with Egypt, Tunisia, Morroco, and some others up north.

@Poster, Libya is most definitely an Arab country, that happens to be in Africa. Even Libyans know and embrace this. Same with Egypt, Tunisia, Morroco, and some others up north.

so ur saying they are not arabized africans then?

Africa is a continent that is home to several cultures. Arabs are people who share a common culture and can be found in several continents. Libya is an African country that contains arabs!

efisher:

Africa is a continent that is home to several cultures. Arabs are people who share a common culture and can be found in several continents. Libya is an African country that contains arabs!

Simple and straight to the point kudos

Geographically, they are an African country. There is no continent called Arab continent. Arabs are in Africa and in Asia as well.

@Poster, Libya is most definitely an Arab country, that happens to be in Africa. Even Libyans know and embrace this. Same with Egypt, Tunisia, Morroco, and some others up north.

Sometimes it is better to do some research or read some books before commenting. For informed people not to perceive you as ignorant of history and lazy to read up facts. Maybe you can start with the summarized information below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Libya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_North_Africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Egypt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Algeria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_early_Islamic_Tunisia

Or maybe you also need a free library online.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/

Even the Arabs knows this. They are settles just as the "real white Americans" came to the New world discovered by Christopher Columbus. The world encyclopedia is at your finger tips. The internet.

The question is 'is the internet making us dumber or smarter?

To lay the facts straight.

The Arabs are from Arabia across the Red sea and the Gulf of Aden.

There has been more contact btw the MIDDLE EAST/Europe and north Africa than NA and subSahara Africa. We are very different in culture and skin colour. We just share the same continent.

There has been more contact btw the MIDDLE EAST/Europe and north Africa than NA and subSahara Africa. We are very different in culture and skin colour. We just share the same continent.

Do you guys research anything?

Ancient Egypt traded with the Arabs.

Nubia traded with Arabs and Egyptians, and later intermarried heavily with arabs.

Aksum/Kush ruled southern Arabia, Yemen in particular.

Kanem-Bornu was an empire compromised in different parts of Arabs, Berbers, and Africans.

Darfur traded with Arabs.

There is legend that The Ghana was defeated by the Almoravid Dynasty of Morocco, which considered itself Arab.

Songhai was one of the major centers of education in the Arab/Islamic world.

Sokoto Caliphate was a powerful player in the Arab/Islamic world.

Somalia did alot of trade with the middle east, including some intermarrying with Arabs.

The Swahili city states of Kenya had very strong relationships with Arabs, some intermarrying.

Im done, it is obvious even from this list, that there has been plenty of interaction between "North Africa and Arabia" with"sub saharan africa" <--- derogatory term used for the larger part of africa considered inferior.

The Sahara was never a great factor between exchange of culture, trade, or religions in Africa. Therefore, the term sub-saharan is nothing more than a denigrating term invented by Europeans.

@blacklibya
It would have been important if you mentioned the timeline. Most of these contacts where from 11th century upwards. The Egyptians right from the Oldest kingdom, the times they built the pyramid, there was NO RECORDED contact with the black africa, except Nubia. They knew far more about the Phoencians, Romans, and Greeks
The Egyptians fought their wars of domination in the Middle East. Fought with the one of the most famous ancient battle with Hittites.
Africa is a word an armchair geographer used to conveniently identify the large triggerlike continent. The Maghreb and Egypt were not blacks!

Arab-Africans is the only thing I can call them. They are not black-Africans regardless of their so-called mixture with some ancient African ppl they slaughtered and sent running South.

@blacklibya
It would have been important if you mentioned the timeline. Most of these contacts where from 11th century upwards. The Egyptians right from the Oldest kingdom, the times they built the pyramid, there was NO RECORDED contact with the black africa, except Nubia. They knew far more about the Phoencians, Romans, and Greeks
The Egyptians fought their wars of domination in the Middle East. Fought with the one of the most famous ancient battle with Hittites.
Africa is a word an armchair geographer used to conveniently identify the large triggerlike continent. The Maghreb and Egypt were not blacks!

You can believe that if you want. The point is they drew libyans and syrians as white. They drew themselves as black people. The word for their land means black, they called themselves blacks, and they wore weaves, wigs, and braids just like every black African group does. It is not true that they knew far more about Phoenicians, Romans and Greeks. At the time Egypt was conceived, there were only Phoenicians, not Romans and Greeks yet. Nubia and Egypt grew synergistically, and many believe that the earliest ancient Egyptians came from Ethiopia.

Kay19 said

@blacklibya
It would have been important if you mentioned the timeline. Most of these contacts where from 11th century upwards. The Egyptians right from the Oldest kingdom, the times they built the pyramid, there was NO RECORDED contact with the black africa, except Nubia. They knew far more about the Phoencians, Romans, and Greeks
The Egyptians fought their wars of domination in the Middle East. Fought with the one of the most famous ancient battle with Hittites.
Africa is a word an armchair geographer used to conveniently identify the large triggerlike continent. The Maghreb and Egypt were not blacks!

Please keep quiet if you don't know African history.

Ancient Egypt was a black African society, and was noted as such by ancient Greek visitors from Herodotus to Aristotle, and from Homer to Diodorus. The country was called Kemet by its people, meaning Black nation. In the tomb art still there in Egypt, all you see are black people. The blacks were eventually forced to flee south following several invasions culminating in the Arab invasion of 663 AD. Many African ethnic groups, such as Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Wollof, Ashanti etc show strong linguistic and other cultural similarities with Ancient Egypt, and have a tradition of migration from the northern parts of the continent in antiquity.

Rossikk:

Kay19 said

Please keep quiet if you don't know African history.

Ancient Egypt was a black African society, and was noted as such by ancient Greek visitors from Herodotus to Aristotle, and from Homer to Diodorus. The country was called Kemet by its people, meaning Black nation. In the tomb art still there in Egypt, all you see are black people. The blacks were eventually forced to flee south following several invasions culminating in the Arab invasion of 663 AD. Many African ethnic groups, such as Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Wollof, Ashanti etc show strong linguistic and other cultural similarities with Ancient Egypt, and have a tradition of migration from the northern parts of the continent in antiquity.

What trash did you just write?! Igbos from Egypt?!EGYPT black society? The Egyptians mentioned the Nubians as black ppl! Herodotus or the Greeks never called the Egyptians black.
Its overstretched panafricanism. Its ignorant to believe all the ppl on continent Africa are blacks.
Civilization started in Egypt and spread to mesopotamia. Not west africa or east africa!

What trash did you just write?! Igbos from Egypt?!EGYPT black society? The Egyptians mentioned the Nubians as black ppl! Herodotus or the Greeks never called the Egyptians black.
Its overstretched panafricanism. Its ignorant to believe all the ppl on continent Africa are blacks.
Civilization started in Egypt and spread to mesopotamia. Not west africa or east africa!

You are saying trash. Read some African history and stop letting the western media brainwash you with lies.

Next sarcastic comment is "you sip Western poison!" could you prove that Ancient Egyptian society was black?

Next sarcastic comment is "you sip Western poison!" could you prove that Ancient Egyptian society was black?

Next sarcastic comment is "you sip Western poison!" could you prove that Ancient Egyptian society was black?

My cousin plays for a soccer team in Egypt. I went to visit him couple of times and toured almost the whole Egypt. His landlord was black Egyptian. Almost all southern Egypt is black of all shades. From Luxor to Aswan. Arabs settled in North Africa countries including Egypt through the Islamic conquest and dominated ever since. Read some history from reliable source or go on tour and see for yourself. Talk about what you know and don't come on forums to spill your ignorance.

What trash did you just write?! Igbos from Egypt?!EGYPT black society? The Egyptians mentioned the Nubians as black ppl! Herodotus or the Greeks never called the Egyptians black.
Its overstretched panafricanism. Its ignorant to believe all the ppl on continent Africa are blacks.
Civilization started in Egypt and spread to mesopotamia. Not west africa or east africa!

Cheikh Anta Diop was the one who came up with the theories of some West African groups being from Egypt I believe. Ethiopians were already a society by the time Ancient Egypt came up. Furthermore, the Nwok people of Nigeria were already an advanced civilization by this time as well.

If people from Southern Africa can be Jewish(there is a record of a black African tribe with matrilineal linkage to the jews) then SOME(not all) groups from west africa could have migrated from Egypt. There are several examples of ethnogensis in Africa from groups that traveled from some specific location to another, the Wolof and Hausa are good examples, but also the Swahili.

What white culture do you know that worships the color black? Even in the middle east, people are afraid of the color black.

Kay 12 said

What trash did you just write?! Igbos from Egypt?!EGYPT black society? The Egyptians mentioned the Nubians as black ppl! Herodotus or the Greeks never called the Egyptians black.
Its overstretched panafricanism. Its ignorant to believe all the ppl on continent Africa are blacks.
Civilization started in Egypt and spread to mesopotamia. Not west africa or east africa!

Diodorus Sicilus, famed ancient Greek explorer, visited Africa South of the Sahara in 60 BC. That entire region was called 'Ethiopia' by the Greeks. Here is what he reported:


"They (the Ethiopians) say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris ["King of Kings and God of Gods] having been the leader of the colony . . . they add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws."


Diodorus devoted an entire chapter of his world history, the Bibliotheke Historica, or Library of History (Book 3), to the Kushites ["Aithiopians"] of Meroe. Here he repeats the story of their great piety, their high favor with the gods, and adds the fascinating legend that they were the first of all men created by the gods and were the founders of Egyptian civilization, invented writing, and had given the Egyptians their religion and culture. (3.3.2).

"Now they relate that of all people the Aithiopians [Ethiopians] were the earliest, and say that the proofs of this are clear. That they did not arrive as immigrants but are the natives of the country and therefore rightly are called authochthonous is almost universally accepted. That those who live in the South are likely to be the first engendered by the earth is obvious to all. For as it was the heat of the sun that dried up the earth while it was still moist, at the time when everything came into being, and caused life, they say it is probable that it was the region closest to the sun that first bore animate beings".
[160,000-year-old fossilized skulls uncovered in Ethiopia are oldest anatomically modern humans.]

Diodorus continues:

"They further write that it was among them that people were first taught to honor the gods and offer sacrifices and arrange processions and festivals and perform other things by which people honor the divine. For this reason their piety is famous among all men, and the sacrifices among the Aithiopians are believed to be particularly pleasing to the divinity,"

"The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians are settlers from among themselves and that Osiris was the leader of the settlement.The customs of the Egyptians, they say, are for the most part Aithiopian, the settlers having preserved their old traditions. For to consider the kings gods, to pay great attention to funeral rites, and many other things, are Aithiopian practices, and also the style of their statues and the form of their writing are Ethiopian. Also the way the priestly colleges are organized is said to be the same in both nations. For all who have to do with the cult of the gods, they maintain, are [ritually] pure: the priests are shaved in the same way, they have the same robes and the type of scepter shaped like a plough, which also the kings have, who use tall pointed felt hats ending in a knob, with the snakes that they call the asp (aspis) coiled round them."

"There are also numerous other Ethiopian tribes [i.e. besides those centered at Meroe]; some live along both sides of the river Nile and on the islands in the river, others dwell in the regions that border on Arabia [i.e. to the east], others again have settled in the interior of Libya [i.e. to the west]. The majority of these tribes, in particular those who live along the river, have black skin, snub-nosed faces, and curly hair".

(Diodous Siculus, Bibliotheke, 3. Translated by Tomas Hagg, in Fontes Historiae Nubiorum, vol. II: From the Mid-Fifth to the First Century BC (Bergen, Norway, 1996))



ARISTOTLE


Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) Greek philosopher, scientist, and tutor to Alexander the Great.
Aristotle is said to have written 150 philosophical treatises.

"Too black a hue marks the coward as witness Egyptians and Ethiopians and so does also too white a complexion as you may see from women, the complexion of courage is between the two."
(Physiognomics, Vol. VI, 812a)

Aristotle makes reference to the hair form of Egyptians and Ethiopians: "Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because the bodies of living creatures become distorted by heat, like logs of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations, and curliness is as it were crookedness of the hair."
(Physiognomics, Book XIV, p. 317)



The evidence of Lucian (Greek writer, 125 B.C.) is as explicit as that of the previous writers. He introduces two Greeks, Lycinus and Timolaus, who start a conversation:

Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): "This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin . . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman."

Timolaus: "But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus, All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place."
(Lucian, Navigations, paras 2-3)



HERODOTUS

''There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too. But further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times. The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves confess that they learned the custom of the Egyptians. And the Syrians who dwell about the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, as well as their neighbors the Macronians, say that they have recently adopted it from the Colchians. Now these are the only nations who use circumcision, and it is plain that they all imitate herein the Egyptians. With respect to the Ethiopians, indeed, I cannot decide whether they learned the practice of the Egyptians, or the Egyptians of them (it is undoubtedly of very ancient date in Ethiopia). But that the others derived their knowledge of it from Egypt is clear to me, from the fact that the Phoenicians, when they come to have commerce with the Greeks, cease to follow the Egyptians in this custom, and allow their children to remain uncircumcised. (Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2:104)

@blacklibya
If the Nwok ppl had an advanced civilization before the Egyptians, then you and your "non-Western authentic source" have certainly rewritten history.
Its expected from Chevik Anta Diop to see Egypt from the "unbiased" lens of the spirit of the Negritude movement.
And you keep producing unsubstantiated stories. Matrilineal connection to the jews?!

all the countries outside the arabian peninsula that dentify themselves as "arabs" presently are not purely arabians ethinically and have their distinct ethnic and racial make-ups.in other terms,they are mostly not ethnically arab.they have more genes from the local populations of those areas before the arabian conquests than with the arabians who came with islam to meet them and blend with them and give them the arab identity.you can check wikipedia on such peoples mentioned in the below paragraph.

Peoples presently such as Palestinians,Syrians,and Lebanese are levantine.they are descended from the canaanite tribes and also the israelites later on.also,conquering peoples such as the roman,greeks,persians,and others left their genes behind and blended.up till the 16th century Aramaic was still the spoken language in present-day syria ,lebanon and palestine.when the arabians came too,they blended but they left their mark to be the dominant as they changed the identity of many peoples.

the arabian conquests brought a policy of assimilation otherwise known as arabization or islamization where local populations were sucked and then gradually their language and culture fades away for the arabian identity which became more pronounced as the locals adopted it and identify themselves with it.a similar event took place in Latin american countries who speak spanish but are not spaniard purely.they are a blend of the locals and indigenes such as the indian tribes and the africans slaves and the white spanish/european colonial masters whose spanish identity is dominant in latin america.in places like persia (presently iran) and turkey,the peoples were not assimilated and they maintained their cultures and languages.

this is really the reason why those who presently identitfy themselves as "arabs" do look different from each other.take for example the looks of a more white looking lebanese and the looks of a black looking sudanese.the difference is striking yet both claim to be "arab".the arab identity is more of cultural and linguistic than ethnic.


the same was applied in north africa.the arabians met the egyptians,and northern african tribes and assimilated them.the libyans may look fairer than us purely blacks but definitely they are mostly not pure-bred arabians in terms of ethnicity.they have berber and black african origins mixed with arabian looks.indeed the spread of islam changed many things and mixed things up and brought many different peoples together under one language and faith to identify themselves as "one nation".

.they have berber and black african origins mixed with arabian looks

This is true, as I met a Libyan girl at work one day and she was a light tannish brown color. When I asked her where she from she said she was Libyan, but she admitted she had ancestry from Mali and Niger. However, im sure she would never consider herself black in any form.

If the Nwok ppl had an advanced civilization before the Egyptians, then you and your "non-Western authentic source" have certainly rewritten history.

I did not say that, I said that they had an advanced civilization by the time Egypt came up. That means concurrently, I am aware that Egypt is older than the Nok people. By the time the Egyptian sphere of influence had increased substantially, this civilization was there, is what i was saying.

If ancient Egyptians were black, then the Australian Aborigines are africans too! Lol!

The Nwok ppl were working iron yeah, but not at the same time as Egypt. Not that it didnt happen, but we cant say or make such conclusion.

:Dlibya is an african country

And you keep producing unsubstantiated stories. Matrilineal connection to the jews?!

Is it unbelievable to you that there are black Jews? The Ethiopians themselves claim they are descended from Queen Sheba and King Solomon of Israel, the Beta Israel are officially recognized as jewish.

There is a south African tribe that I was mistaken about. They are not matrilineally descended, but patrilineally descended from Jews. They call themselves Lemba, their priestly clan the Buba, is also descended from the Jewish priestly clan. So it can even now be seen, that there were blacks in ancient Israel.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288118/?tool=pmcentrez

Wow! 0_0!

Libya is an African country but an Islamic state, just like Egypt, Morrocco and Sudan

Wow! 0_0!

Im glad I could help u see everything in this world is not as it looks.