Recent events in Libya should raise alarm bells about the threat to Africa’s hard won right to self-determination, former president Thabo Mbeki has said.

Addressing the Law Society of the Northern Provinces in Sun City, Mbeki said it “seemed obvious” that a few powerful countries were seeking to use the council to pursue their selfish interests.

They were determined to behave according to the principle that “might is right” and to sideline the principle of self-determination.

“I must state categorically that those who have sought to manufacture a particular outcome out of the conflict in Libya have propagated a poisonous canard aimed at discrediting African and AU opposition to the Libyan debacle.”

He said this was done on the basis that the African Union and the rest of “us” had been “bought by Colonel Gadaffi with petro-dollars” and felt obliged to defend his continued misrule.

He said all known means of disinformation were being bandied about, included an argument that Gadaffi’s Libya had supported the ANC during the apartheid struggle.

“The incontrovertible fact is that during this whole period, Libya did not give the ANC even one cent, did not train even one of our military combatants and did not supply us with even one bullet.

“This is because Gadaffi’s Libya made the determination that the ANC was little more than an instrument of Zionist Israel, because we had among our leaders such outstanding patriots as the late Joe Slovo.”

Mbeki said Libya’s assistance to the ANC came after 1990, when it realised that the ANC was a genuine representative of the overwhelming majority of our people.

Assertions that the AU depended on Libyan money to ensure its survival were false and yet another fabrication.

“The UN Security Council Resolution on a no-fly-zone said nothing about regime change. However the fact of the matter is that the NATO actions had everything to do with the overthrow of the Gadaffi regime.”

The AU had in fact adopted a roadmap for the negotiated resolution of the conflict in Libya.

“To all intents and purposes the Security Council ignored the AU decision and later blocked the AU Panel on Libya from flying into the country to begin the process of mediating a peaceful resolution.

“Libya is an African country. In addition to this, in terms of international peace and security, the conflict in that country has impacted and will continue to impact directly and negatively on a number of African countries.”

Despite this, the Security Council chose to ignore the AU, he said
http://m.news24.com/citypress/Politics/News/West-undermining-African-self-determination-Mbeki-20111105

Thabo Mbeki should shut it, he should be worried about China telling SA who to give visa and who not to.

Mbeki failed miserably to solve Zimbabwe's problem until he left office. Was NATO also involved in Egypt and Tunisia?

^^^
how much are they paying you in that your miserable cleaning job in london?

how does it feel to go to bed on a full stomach and have 24 hours of electricity and running water? is this why you are so in awe of the white man? is this why you swallow all his lies without question?

do you think that you will have a job if there is mass unemployment of whites in the UK? do you seriously think you will be welcome in the UK if thousands of white europeans start losing their jobs?

you better get your tongue out of whiteys arse fast cos when the sh.it hits the fan he will throw you under the bus so fast your feet wont touch the ground.

cap28:

^^^
how much are they paying you in that your miserable cleaning job in london?

how does it feel to go to bed on a full stomach and have 24 hours of electricity and running water? is this why you are so in awe of the white man? is this why you swallow all his lies without question?

do you think that you will have a job if there is mass unemployment of whites in the UK? do you seriously think you will be welcome in the UK if thousands of white europeans start losing their jobs?

you better get your tongue out of whiteys arse fast cos when the sh.it hits the fan he will throw you under the bus so fast your feet wont touch the ground.

Hmmm. POt calling Kettle black that is unless you make a living by collecting donations from the NOI branch office in London.

@RSA

As you already know I have alwasy liked Thabo Mbeki and what he did for the South African economy during his tenure before he was ousted by those comrade thugs that occupy the ANC ranks.

He is "generally" spot on in his analysis and African countries need to continue to be weary of the cerain agendas from Western influence in Africa. Mbeki faced the same dilemma when he was pressed by "other" powers to put pressure on Zimbabwe, knowing fully well the histry that thise Southern countries share.

justwise:

Thabo Mbeki should shut it, he should be worried about China telling SA who to give visa and who not to.

Mbeki failed miserably to solve Zimbabwe's problem until he left office. Was NATO also involved in Egypt and Tunisia?

Mbeki should shut up for another reason. He failed in Cote d'ivoire, he was the president of south africa with all the military power of this country when Jacques CHirac bypassed him to bomb Cote d'ivoire's air force and destroy it.
Not only that Chirac ordered french troops to use helicopters gunships against civilians killing more than 100 and wounding more than 1600 in Abidjan. What did Mbeki do? in 2005 he pressed Gbagbo to sign an agreement in pretoria allowing french mercenary Allassane ouattara to get in the race without asking the french rebels to lay down arms for the sake of free and fair elections.The consequence of this "agreement" was dire for Cote d'Ivoire in 2010-2011.

panafrican:

Mbeki should shut up for another reason. He failed in Cote d'ivoire, he was the president of south africa with all the military power of this country when Jacques CHirac bypassed him to bomb Cote d'ivoire's air force and destroy it.
Not only that Chirac ordered french troops to use helicopters gunships against civilians killing more than 100 and wounding more than 1600 in Abidjan. What did Mbeki do? in 2005 he pressed Gbagbo to sign an agreement in pretoria allowing french mercenary Allassane ouattara to get in the race without asking the french rebels to lay down arms for the sake of free and fair elections.The consequence of this "agreement" was dire for Cote d'Ivoire in 2010-2011.

He did all that while in power, now he is out he has the gut to start moaning about the West, typical of boneless African leaders.

justwise:

[/b]

He did all that while in power, now he is out he has the gut to start moaning about the West, typical of boneless African leaders.

Shows how much you know about southern African politics. That guy protected his country against a swamp of profiteers trying to make money from the Aids epidemic inthe country not to talk of having him betray his neighbours Zimbabwe by calling them out in the public.

Mbeki is about the only President with a track record of doing something in Southern Africa.

PS Regionally speaking wetin concern Mbeki with West African regional affairs when the the outcome presents minimal interference with the southern regions affairs. Did Ivory Coast invest anything in South Africa.

Please!!

morpheus24:

Shows how much you know about southern African politics. That guy protected his country against a swamp of profiteers trying to make money from the Aids epidemic inthe country not to talk of having him betray his neighbours Zimbabwe by calling them out in the public.

Mbeki is about the only President with a track record of doing something in Southern Africa.

PS Regionally speaking wetin concern Mbeki with West African regional affairs when the the outcome presents minimal interference with the southern regions affairs. Did Ivory Coast invest anything in South Africa.

Please!!

Mbeki played down the cause of Aids & HIV in SA and did not make it a priority hence the massive increase in number of pple affected.
He watched with his softy softy approach while Zimbabwe went down the drain, Zimbabweans will not forgive him for that, visit after visit to Zimbabwe yield no significant result.

He dined and wined with the same Western power while in office and did not speak out against them, now he is out of office he suddenly realised that the West is playing a negative role in Africa. rubbish.

Leave Thabo guys. His brother Moeletsi has criticised him enough.

justwise:

Mbeki played down the cause of Aids & HIV in SA and did not make it a priority hence the massive increase in number of pple affected.

Thats what the going "western" intepretation of the story is. Those with insight would realize that it was a counter tactic to create an atmosphere were an epidemic would not be hijacked for profit reasons.

justwise:


He watched with his softy softy approach while Zimbabwe went down the drain, Zimbabweans will not forgive him for that, visit after visit to Zimbabwe yield no significant result.

Its the "zimbabwe was a bread basket" story scenario again. Zimbabwe is not going down any drain. Its a test case for and alternate approach to western intevention in Africa. Only time will tell what becomes of her.

Meanwhile this softy softy leader's country has absorbed close to 4 million Zimbabwean refugees. A consequence of his so called inaction. He must be really daft not to know that Zimbabwe would adversly affect his own country in terms of inflows of refugess and migrants. Wonder why he allowed that to happen?

justwise:


He dined and wined with the same Western power while in office and did not speak out against them, now he is out of office he suddenly realised that the West is playing a negative role in Africa. rubbish.

He's been whining and dining with western powers long before you were born. I would wager he knows a little more about them than you profess. He's always known the wests antics and has played to their weaknesses for the long term benefit of his country.

The only known siting African president to step down for the betterment of his people and country.

paniki:

Leave Thabo guys. His brother Moeletsi has criticised him enough.

That over educated brother of his seems to be jealous of his brother. Thabo's woes are a consequence of his spending most his struggles outside of the continent. He was seen as a western educated elitist who was not in touch with the people and so they opted for the semi literate wanna be zulu King Zuma. Who seems quite blank and docile as a sitting president.

I will always choose brains over bronze any day. Its a long term sustainable choice.

morpheus24:

Thats what the going "western" intepretation of the story is. Those with insight would realize that it was a counter tactic to create an atmosphere were an epidemic would not be hijacked for profit reasons.

Its the "zimbabwe was a bread basket" story scenario again. Zimbabwe is not going down any drain. Its a test case for and alternate approach to western intevention in Africa. Only time will tell what becomes of her.

Meanwhile this softy softy leader's country has absorbed close to 4 million Zimbabwean refugees. A consequence of his so called inaction. He must be really daft not to know that Zimbabwe would adversly affect his own country in terms of inflows of refugess and migrants. Wonder why he allowed that to happen?

He's been whining and dining with western powers long before you were born. I would wager he knows a little more about them than you profess. He's always known the wests antics and has played to their weaknesses for the long term benefit of his country.

The only known siting African president to step down for the betterment of his people and country.

This is strange, what Western interpretation? The cause of HIV or the cure of HIV? The same ''west'' donated more FREE HIV drug to African countries than any other Asian and African country, where did you think that those antiretroviral drugs being distributed in many African countries including Nigeria is coming from? How many Africa countries can afford to give free drug to their citizens?

Mbeki did not resign of his own will, he was called back by ANC because of corruption allegation against him and his miserable attempt to get Zuma jailed for some political reasons.

Zimbabwe went down the drain and still trying to recover from it, his softy softy approach did not work, some Zimbabweans died trying to cross to SA, SA put up barbed wired fence at Zim/SA border to stop Zimbabweans crossing, those who managed to pay smugglers to get into SA were hunted down by angry South Africans who accused them of increasing crime rate and taking their jobs.

Many Zimbabweans are still surviving on food donated by the West, Zimbabwean currency (Zim-dollar) is worthless hence the use of U.S dollar as they official currency now.

Why did SA cut-off electricity to Zimbabwe when they couldn't afford to pay? This was during Mbeki's time in office. Tell me how he helped Zimbabwe.

justwise:

This is strange, what Western interpretation? The cause of HIV or the cure of HIV? The same ''west'' donated more FREE HIV drug to African countries than any other Asian and African country, where did you think that those antiretroviral drugs being distributed in many African countries including Nigeria is coming from? How many Africa countries can afford to give free drug to their citizens?

Of course it was donated. Thats how you get access to the markets in the first place. Mbekis's only error during that whole debacle was his lack of knowledge concering the relationship between HIV and AIDS fueled by alternate scientists and information he felt was being misconstrued by so called 'concerned' peoples with suspect  motives.

The reason behind his reluctance to accept overwhelming statistical data was again because of the mounting pressures by Phamarceutical companies on his government to accept what ever "DATA" was coming from their side. A common tactic used by such entities to gain access to markets before any such "FREE" drug negotiations were done by mostly NGO's

justwise:


Mbeki did not resign of his own will, he was called back by ANC because of corruption allegation against him and his miserable attempt to get Zuma jailed for some political reasons.

Tell me anywhere in Africa where thats a likely scenario. A leader relinqushing power because he was called upon to do so. You don't find that quite odd?

justwise:


Zimbabwe went down the drain and still trying to recover from it, his softy softy approach did not work, some Zimbabweans died trying to cross to SA, SA put up barbed wired fence at Zim/SA border to stop Zimbabweans crossing, those who managed to pay smugglers to get into SA were hunted down by angry South Africans who accused them of increasing crime rate and taking their jobs.

I doubt you've ever been to  Harare, talk less of anywhere in southern africa to make such comments  in comparsion to Nigeria. You must picture hoards of refugees jumping fences and running amok on the borders. I urge you to get on a plane and go see it for yourself. 

Ps. on all my trips to South Africa, since May 2008 the Zimbaweans are pretty much intergrated into the cities and townships, gettig housing and stipends, making a living in pretty much every sector you can think of down there. This your "hunted" down rubbish is media hype. Again Get on a plane go see for yourself insteadof regurgitating rubbish you are seeing on T.V. and reading on wikipedia. See Video

[flash=400,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEec3IjVnuM&feature=related[/flash][quote][/quote]

morpheus24:

Of course it was donated. Thats how you get access to the markets in the first place. Mbekis's only error during that whole debacle was his lack of knowledge concering the relationship between HIV and AIDS fueled by alternate scientists and information he felt was being misconstrued by so called 'concerned' peoples with suspect  motives.

The reason behind his reluctance to accept overwhelming statistical data was again because of the mounting pressures by Phamarceutical companies on his government to accept what ever "DATA" was coming from their side. A common tactic used by such entities to gain access to markets before any such "FREE" drug negotiations were done by mostly NGO's
Tell me anywhere in Africa where thats a likely scenario. A leader relinqushing power because he was called upon to do so. You don't find that quite odd?
I doubt you've ever been to  Harare, talk less of anywhere in southern africa to make such comments  in comparsion to Nigeria. You must picture hoards of refugees jumping fences and running amok on the borders. I urge you to get on a plane and go see it for yourself. 

Ps. on all my trips to South Africa, since May 2008 the Zimbaweans are pretty much intergrated into the cities and townships, gettig housing and stipends, making a living in pretty much every sector you can think of down there. This your "hunted" down rubbish is media hype. Again Get on a plane go see for yourself insteadof regurgitating rubbish you are seeing on T.V. and reading on wikipedia. See Video

[flash=400,200]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEec3IjVnuM&feature=related[/flash]

Read up on Zimbabwe before making some baseless arguments.

Before you starting throwing unnecessary insult at me let me tell you that i went to Zimbabwe when Zimbabwe was pretty good, went to school there and was there when Zimbabwe went down in any possible way you could  think of, i went to Zim Jan 1999 and left Sept 2003, we did our shopping in SA then as many shops in Zim are empty, the sanction started biting, no foreign currency to import anything, electricity and water rationalised, no fuel, Libya was the only country in Africa that came to their rescue then, Zimbabwe export beef to Libya and get the much needed foreign currency but that did not last long as Gaddafi demanded some land for exchange for foreign currency which Mugabe refused.

Where were Mbeki then? Singapore and China were other countries that Mugabe ran to for help.

Yes some Zimbabweans were killed trying to enter SA illegally, many who managed to get in were deported and beaten badly by South Africans. They blamed Mbeki for backing Mugabe while he was busy killing MDC members with the help of war veterans and Green Boys (thugs). Mbeki was helpless, hopeless about Zim issue and Mugabe did not listen to him one bit.

justwise:


Before you starting throwing unnecessary insult at me let me tell you that i went to Zimbabwe when Zimbabwe was pretty good, went to school there and was there when Zimbabwe went down in any possible way you could  think of, i went to Zim Jan 1999 and left Sept 2003, we did our shopping in SA then as many shops in Zim are empty, the sanction started biting, no foreign currency to import anything, electricity and water rationalised, no fuel, Libya was the only country in Africa that came to their rescue then, Zimbabwe export beef to Libya and get the much needed foreign currency but that did not last long as Gaddafi demanded some land for exchange for foreign currency which Mugabe refused.

I too was in  Harare on an assignment a few years back, came across a number of Nigerians hiding out in Zim waiting to cross into SA. Many of them lamenting how they prefered Zim to Nigeria anyday. Imagine that! A supposed hellhole where everyone is trying to escape from. If your last visit was 2003 . You need to update your travels then.

justwise:


Yes some Zimbabweans were killed trying to enter SA illegally, many who managed to get in were deported and beaten badly by South Africans.

Where did this happen specifically?. What border crossing? How many were killed again? you must be speaking of them boer farmers who were man handling border jumpers when  they caught them running through theri farmlands and setting local workers and villagers on the zims.

There are approximately 11 milliion Zims living in Zimbabwe. With the mounting scarcity of jobs and unemployment rates of 26% in SA, about 1/3rd of that Zim population reside inside of SA and less than 0.5% of that population have been butchered by the SA's due to conflicts and pressures  on job allocations and welfare distributions during Mbeki's tenure extending into Zuma's time. Many zimbaweans have been giving legal status to reside and work in SA despite these moounting social n economic pressures post the may 2008 riots

I'd say that s a pretty good " keeper thy neighbour" policy don't you think

Excuses, excuses!
Typical Black man!

morpheus24:

I too was in  Harare on an assignment a few years back, came across a number of Nigerians hiding out in Zim waiting to cross into SA. Many of them lamenting how they prefered Zim to Nigeria anyday. Imagine that! A supposed hellhole where everyone is trying to escape from. If your last visit was 2003 . You need to update your travels then.

Where did this happen specifically?. What border crossing? How many were killed again? you must be speaking of them boer farmers who were man handling border jumpers when  they caught them running through theri farmlands and setting local workers and villagers on the zims.

There are approximately 11 milliion Zims living in Zimbabwe. With the mounting scarcity of jobs and unemployment rates of 26% in SA, about 1/3rd of that Zim population reside inside of SA and [b]less than 0.5% of that population have been butchered by the SA's due to conflicts and pressures  on job allocations and welfare distributions during Mbeki's tenure extending into Zuma's time. [/b]Many zimbaweans have been giving legal status to reside and work in SA despite these moounting social n economic pressures post the may 2008 riots

I'd say that s a pretty good " keeper thy neighbour" policy don't you think

I thought u claimed that Mbeki do a wonderful job in the case of Zim? How can they be butchered trying to cross into a ''neighbouring country''? Mbeki was the only leader in Southern Africa who stood strongly behind Mugabe while ordinary Zims are being killed in and outside Zim, South Africans took their anger on Zims cos they are suffering from Mbeki's lack of action in Zim. Only you that i have heard singing the praises of somebody who looked the other way while pple are being tortured to death.

Zims who got a stay in SA went through hell . . .in the same Mbeki's brotherly country?

Please give Thabo a break guys. It's unfair for anyone to expect a leader of a country with many problems to go and solve the problems of another country that has its own leader.

A ten-year old's description of Africa after watching star wars. . .

Africa is a mother-ship that needs protecting at all costs . . .

panafrican:

Mbeki should shut up for another reason. He failed in Cote d'ivoire, he was the president of south africa with all the military power of this country when Jacques CHirac bypassed him to bomb Cote d'ivoire's air force and destroy it.
Not only that Chirac ordered french troops to use helicopters gunships against civilians killing more than 100 and wounding more than 1600 in Abidjan. What did Mbeki do? in 2005 he pressed Gbagbo to sign an agreement in pretoria allowing french mercenary Allassane ouattara to get in the race  without asking the french rebels to lay down arms for the sake of free and fair elections.The consequence of this "agreement" was  dire  for Cote d'Ivoire in 2010-2011.

Hmm! Must admit that he didnt take the necessary action to intervene of any sort, atleast an appearance on global network condemning the sagas in both countries, however, one shouldnt be quick to weigh-in on any SA leader at the moment, so-far i dont think there has been any REAL military threat that SA needed to act-upon an have FAILED. I think its indicative of their awareness the demographics of our world.

God forbid! If SA was to deploy military personnel due external agresssion, which other AU country would be willing to join coalition?

Assuming SA was forced to repond to external agression which AU country can offer as a back-up to their military might? In this i'm supportive of SA to continue to deal with their internal poiltics and let the rest of WE pull our socks-up; let them continue to flourish.

In the next few years we will wise-up and step-up our game, the last time western military planes were carrying out manouevers on African airspace was during worldwar, i think its high time we wake-up and smell the cofee.

We have to keep up with the times, we have to keep up with the times, we all need to answer to the failed AU that was meant at creating an eye-sore for 'external forces' but uptill now has not so much put its FOOT DOWN!

Truly