elhakiimed:

Should people's religion make their lives or their kids lives any less important than yours?

You should ask Muslims and those claiming Christians going about with weapons to force others into obeying rules that doesn't go down well with their minds.
No EXTREMIST as wicked as POLITICIANS so if members of your religion do practice politics then there's no way extremism can be averted in your religion.
So people's religions makes their lives and that of their children worthless in the face of politicians!

SIRTee15:


The problem with Islam is they think the only other religion on earth is Christianity and maybe Judaism. So they presume if Islam is validated against the bible, they are good to go...bro U are in for a long ride.

This is terribly naive. We group you all together as idol worshippers and only make distinction for you two because your origin was also Abrahamic. Who don't care 1400 years ago and we certainly don't now.

elhakiimed:



This is terribly naive. We group you all together as idol worshippers and only make distinction for you two because your origin was also Abrahamic. Who don't care 1400 years ago and we certainly don't now.

Orisirisi....wonders shall never end
People who travel to Mecca to lick a stone and then believe licking the stone will remove sin is calling others idol worshippers.

Baba aborisha ponbele no eyin musulimi...U guys are perfect example of idolaters.
How can U be licking a stone and thinking it can forgive sin.
A stone that has no mouth, no eyes or breath forgiving sin.

I've been asking U a question for 2 days now but U refuse to answer.
Tell me the difference btw these 2 below. If U dare answer confident of your religion, tell me the difference.

SIRTee15:


Orisirisi....wonders shall never end
People who travel to Mecca to lick a stone and then believe licking the stone will remove sin is calling others idol worshippers.

Baba aborisha ponbele no eyin musulimi...U guys are perfect example of idolaters.
How can U be licking a stone and thinking it can forgive sin.
A stone that has no mouth, no eyes or breath forgiving sin.

I've been asking U a question for 2 days now but U refuse to answer.
Tell me the difference btw these 2 below. If U dare answer confident of your religion, tell me the difference.

My response suffices for a sincere questioner. But you think you can justify your idol worship of Jesus by hanging on to muslim's purely symbolic practices. We never pray to it nor humans, angels, etc except Allah.

You can't say the same about your actions to Jesus nor the stones your idol worshipping kinsmen pray to.

elhakiimed:



My response suffices for a sincere questioner. But you think you can justify your idol worship of Jesus by hanging on to muslim's purely symbolic practices. We never pray to it nor humans, angels, etc except Allah.

You can't say the same about your actions to Jesus nor the stones your idol worshipping kinsmen pray to.

See clown...
At least Jesus can say your sins are forgiven BUT a stone forgiving sin is the most bizarre thing I've ever heard in my life. A stone that can't talk...

Traditional worshippers are far better than U Muslims, none of them believe a stone can forgive sin.
Only Muslims believe licking a stone can forgive sin..
If this is not paganism, I do t know what to call it....

Ohyoudidnt:


Don't mind their cherry picking the words of men they call hadith that goes against themselves and the Quran.

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “How can you worship besides Allah those who can neither harm nor benefit you? And Allah ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” Q5:76

He rebuked ˹them˺, “Do you then worship—instead of Allah—what can neither benefit nor harm you in any way? Q21:66

Ignoring other hadith

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

I've seen U oga...
Now answer my question..

U guys claim Muhammed told U guys to be licking the black stone. No problem.

But if U see a traditional worshipper kissing an ancestral sacred stone..is it idolatry?

SIRTee15:


I've seen U oga...
Now answer my question..

U guys claim Muhammed told U guys to be licking the black stone. No problem.

But if U see a traditional worshipper kissing an ancestral sacred stone..is it idolatry?

Your argument is flawed Oga, stop feeling yourself.

Do you know how many pagan religions believe in the concept of dying and rising man-god.

Or how many pagan religions believe in the concept of human sacrifice to appease god?

Does that make Christainity a pagan religion?

We are instructed to face the Kaaba, there is evidence for that in the Qur'an.

SIRTee15:


I've seen U oga...
Now answer my question..

U guys claim Muhammed told U guys to be licking the black stone. No problem.

But if U see a traditional worshipper kissing an ancestral sacred stone..is it idolatry?

You will need to provide clear proof that any pagan rights involve the licking of a stone.

Bear in mind that there's no compulsion or order for Muslims to lick any stone.

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “How can you worship besides Allah those who can neither harm nor benefit you? And Allah ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” Q5:76

He rebuked ˹them˺, “Do you then worship—instead of Allah—what can neither benefit nor harm you in any way? Q21:66

Licking a stone is not a form of worship among pagans. Ritual practices and offerings in pagan traditions typically involve gestures such as leaving natural offerings like flowers, ribbons, honey, milk, or personal items at sacred sites. Licking a stone does not align with traditional pagan rituals or customs.

Qasim6:


Your argument is flawed Oga, stop feeling yourself.

Do you know how many pagan religions believe in the concept of dying and rising man-god.

Or how many pagan religions believe in the concept of human sacrifice to appease god?

Does that make Christainity a pagan religion?

We are instructed to face the Kaaba, there is evidence for that in the Qur'an.

Oga this is about stone veneration not man-god. Pls stick to topic.
If U want to discuss man-god, open another thread. But first understand the meaning of man-god because Jesus is not a man-god.
A man god is a human being living like a God on earth. Definitely, that not Jesus. He never lived like a God. Jesus was physically a man and lived like a MAN.

I don't know where U ignorant folks get the idea of human sacrifice from...
What Jesus did is called SELF SACRIFICE AND not any human sacrifice. Jesus laid is life willingly that we may live.

There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15.13

Above is self sacrifice. If U think it's human sacrifice, then U have to explain with sound LOGIC.

Now back to topic....
If I understand your argument, U saying licking of stone ritual or veneration of stone is not sufficient to tag a believe system as pagan.

If that's the case, would U say below ON ITS OWN isn't idolatry.

Ohyoudidnt:


You will need to provide clear proof that any pagan rights involve the licking of a stone.

Bear in mind that there's no compulsion or order for Muslims to lick any stone.

So long as Islam condone kissing of a stone, then it's part of islam, whether is compulsory or not is irrelevant.

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “How can you worship besides Allah those who can neither harm nor benefit you? And Allah ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” Q5:76

He rebuked ˹them˺, “Do you then worship—instead of Allah—what can neither benefit nor harm you in any way? Q21:66

Licking a stone is not a form of worship among pagans. Ritual practices and offerings in pagan traditions typically involve gestures such as leaving natural offerings like flowers, ribbons, honey, milk, or personal items at sacred sites. Licking a stone does not align with traditional pagan rituals or customs.

Voudou worshippers kiss their idols.
Anyway the point here is not about kissing but veneration of stone.
Are U saying pouring libation on stone during worship isn't idolatry...is that what U saying?

SIRTee15:


Voudou worshippers kiss their idols.
Anyway the point here is not about kissing but veneration of stone.
Are U saying pouring libation on stone during worship isn't idolatry...is that what U saying?

You and perhaps your kindred must be hunters of sort. Sorry there's nothing to rope or catch here.

The black stone may have been revered and respected by the previous generations, but you ought to know that the Black Stone itself does not hold any spiritual significance.

The pilgrim may touch or if he can approach near enough, kiss the Black Stone as an emotional gesture calling to mind the time when the Holy Prophet(sa) kissed it when he performed the circuit. The Holy Prophet Muhammad(sa) did this, not because of any sanctity attached to the stone, but as an expression of his emotion at the Ka’aba.

Now tell us why Jews cannot conduct religious acts in the church? Do Christians forbid them or the Biblical Jesus say you should have no relationship with them? Do elaborate why please

Ohyoudidnt:


You and perhaps your kindred must be hunters of sort. Sorry there's nothing to rope or catch here.

The black stone may have been revered and respected by the previous generations, but you ought to know that the Black Stone itself does not hold any spiritual significance.

Baba oniro. Why U dey lie like this.
The stone has the power to forgive sins. Touching the stone makes for atonement for sin.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an atonement for sins.”

How can a stone forgive sin yet have no spiritual significance. Is the stone not to stand in accusation against insincere Muslims on judgement day?

How can lie bold face and say the black stone has no spiritual significance? U well so?

Ohyoudidnt:

The pilgrim may touch or if he can approach near enough, kiss the Black Stone as an emotional gesture calling to mind the time when the Holy Prophet(sa) kissed it when he performed the circuit. The Holy Prophet Muhammad(sa) did this, not because of any sanctity attached to the stone, but as an expression of his emotion at the Ka’aba.

We are both saying the same thing. I'm not arguing with u about what Muhammed told U.
All I'm saying is can we apply same principle to African traditional worshippers since they also deal with graven images during their worship.

Are U saying it's ok for a traditional worshipper to bow down to a stone or kiss a wood or circumambulate a graven image during their worship if it's solely for emotional expressions.
Is it ok for Yoruba traditionalist to pour libation on a stone every morning if it's solely to honour the stone?
Is that what U saying ?

Ohyoudidnt:

Now tell us why Jews cannot conduct religious acts in the church? Do Christians forbid them or the Biblical Jesus say you should have no relationship with them? Do elaborate why please

The spirit of God has departed the temple since the time of ezekiel so anyone still practicing Judaism is wasting his time.
Even if they rebuild the temple, it's useless because the glory of God will never return to the temple.
Above is evidence that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and now the glory of God on earth.

If the Jews rebuild the temple and glory of God descend into the inner sanctuary, then I will admit the new testament is a lie. But that will never happen because Jesus Christ is the truth.

The sensible Jews have embraced Jesus as the Messiah and are called messianic Jews. The rest are just leaning on the Judeo-Christian ideology to misbehave.
Kissing the temple wall or praying facing the temple wall in 2024 is paganism.

SIRTee15:

Baba oniro. Why U dey lie like this.
The stone has the power to forgive sins. Touching the stone makes for atonement for sin.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an atonement for sins.”

How can a stone forgive sin yet have no spiritual significance. Is the stone not to stand in accusation against insincere Muslims on judgement day?

How can lie bold face and say the black stone has no spiritual significance? U well so?

Which takes precedence inverter SIRTee15 the Quran or the Hadith?

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “How can you worship besides Allah those who can neither harm nor benefit you? And Allah ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” Q5:76

He rebuked ˹them˺, “Do you then worship—instead of Allah—what can neither benefit nor harm you in any way? Q21:66

Do I believe the words of Allah or the lies of someone claiming to be of Allah?

For the sake of your mischievous argument you disregard
Sahih al-Bukhari 1597
Narrated `Abis bin Rabi`a:

`Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger pbuh kissing you I would not have kissed you."

SIRTee15:

We are both saying the same thing. I'm not arguing with u about what Muhammed told U.
All I'm saying is can we apply same principle to African traditional worshippers since they also deal with graven images during their worship.

Are U saying it's ok for a traditional worshipper to bow down to a stone or kiss a wood or circumambulate a graven image during their worship if it's solely for emotional expressions.
Is it ok for Yoruba traditionalist to pour libation on a stone every morning if it's solely to honour the stone?
Is that what U saying ?

We are definitely not saying the same thing you liar.

Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him ˹in worship˺, but forgives anything else of whoever He wills. And whoever associates others with Allah has indeed committed a grave sin

All the things you list under traditional or pagan worship amount to worshipping other than Allah.

We are not honoring the stone but following the practice of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. There's a clear difference unless you now claim prophet Muhammad pbuh may Allah forbid and forgive me for drawing this analogy worshipped the stone.

Please point me to where it is stated in the words of Allah from the Quran that the Black stone has a special or spiritual value.

It seems comparative religion has excited you to a state of confusion. Sorry if this is the case.

SIRTee15:


The spirit of God has departed the temple since the time of ezekiel so anyone still practicing Judaism is wasting his time.
Even if they rebuild the temple, it's useless because the glory of God will never return to the temple.
Above is evidence that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and now the glory of God on earth.

If the Jews rebuild the temple and glory of God descend into the inner sanctuary, then I will admit the new testament is a lie. But that will never happen because Jesus Christ is the truth.

The sensible Jews have embraced Jesus as the Messiah and are called messianic Jews. The rest are just leaning on the Judeo-Christian ideology to misbehave.
Kissing the temple wall or praying facing the temple wall in 2024 is paganism.

Is your god a physical form that can be confined to a place like a temple and if this is the case obviously there is the idol you worship.

You mean Jews that don't accept the false messianic description of Jesus as he failed to fulfil their prophesy are senseless?

Tell me was Jesus crucified on the day of the passover or the day before the passover?

Ohyoudidnt:


Which takes precedence inverter SIRTee15 the Quran or the Hadith?

Just say U are embarrassed by the hadiths and we will understand , no need for all these Chery picking.

U can't be choosing what suits your fancy in your islamic literatures yet claim to be Sunni Muslim.

We Christians don't follow the old testament but U will never see a Christian deny the OT, we defend it as much just like we do for the new testament because both are seen as word of God. As much as OT is very inconvenient for most Christians, we will never deny it or attempt to throw it under the bus. NEVER.

Ohyoudidnt:


Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “How can you worship besides Allah those who can neither harm nor benefit you? And Allah ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.” Q5:76

He rebuked ˹them˺, “Do you then worship—instead of Allah—what can neither benefit nor harm you in any way? Q21:66

Do I believe the words of Allah or the lies of someone claiming to be of Allah?

For the sake of your mischievous argument you disregard
Sahih al-Bukhari 1597
Narrated `Abis bin Rabi`a:

`Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Messenger pbuh kissing you I would not have kissed you."



We are definitely not saying the same thing you liar.



Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him ˹in worship˺, but forgives anything else of whoever He wills. And whoever associates others with Allah has indeed committed a grave sin

The black stone is well documented in your hadiths. No be me or any Christian write am.

The black stone was initially white then became black due to sins of those that kiss it. If it's not removing sins, how did it become black?

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaa said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).

Ohyoudidnt:

All the things you list under traditional or pagan worship amount to worshipping other than Allah.

This is the most extreme cognitive dissonance argument I've ever witnessed.
U Muslims travel to Mecca to worship Allah in unity. U circumbulate the kabba to worship Allah. In the same act of worship, U queue to kiss the black stone. But this is not idolatry.
However, a yoruba traditional religion worshipper who wakes up in the morning to pour libation to sacred stones is performing idolatry. He didn't worship the stone, neither did he pray to the stone.
But according to Muslims who just returned from Mecca where they kissed a stone.... the Yoruba man is an idolater because he did exactly same thing the Muslims did- stone veneration.

Muslims are hypocrites. If U dont see this as a big problem with your religion, then you are lost.
U guys are no different from stone worshippers in Africa, the difference is you packaged yours better.

Ohyoudidnt:

We are not honoring the stone but following the practice of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. There's a clear difference unless you now claim prophet Muhammad pbuh may Allah forbid and forgive me for drawing this analogy worshipped the stone.

Liar...your prophet honoured it. Muhammed touched the black stone and shouted allahu Akbar. Why would he praise Allah while touching the stone.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

Your prophet also commanded that if a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it.

It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

This shows the level of veneration your prophet gave the black stone. The symbolic gesture of the black stone can be transferred to other objects that touched it according to your Prophet.

Ohyoudidnt:

Please point me to where it is stated in the words of Allah from the Quran that the Black stone has a special or spiritual value.

The Qur'an didn't mention the black stone at all. Not a single verse was given to the black stone. None.
So why do U guys kiss it, why do U guys venerate it?

This add further proof that veneration of the black stone its not an authentic Islamic practice. Instead it’s spilled over from the ancient Meccan religion into Islam.
The stone represents a goddess of fertility and the whole structure is shaped like a vagina.
Muslims don't realise they follow something ordained by Muhammed and not Allah.
And this makes Muhammed a false prophet.

Its the hadith not Koran that elevated the black stone to level of spiritual significance.

The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

Ohyoudidnt:

It seems comparative religion has excited you to a state of confusion. Sorry if this is the case.

The gospel of Christ is for everyone. Paul said to the Jews I become like a Jew and to the gentiles I become like a gentile.
The truth is objective and stands out irrespective of religion or belief system. I study every belief system to know how to subjugate it in front of Christ which is the truth.
The problem with Muslims is they fail to think beyond abrahamic religion. They only test their faith against either Christianity or judaism. Oga there are over 1000 religions in the world!!!
Ohyoudidn't, have U ever asked yourself why Islam struggles to penetrate sub Sahara Africa?
Sit down and compare your religion with other African traditional religion, the level of similarity will shock u. This is when it will dawn on you that Islam is a pagan religion.
Yes, it's pagan religion deceiving itself because it's wearing Gucci belt.

Ohyoudidnt:

Is your god a physical form that can be confined to a place like a temple and if this is the case obviously there is the idol you worship.

God is omnipresent my friend, he's everywhere.

Ohyoudidnt:


You mean Jews that don't accept the false messianic description of Jesus as he failed to fulfil their prophesy are senseless?

When was these prophecy written up. I dont regard rabbinical Jews who came up 300 yrs after Jesus.
Go and bring what the 2nd temple Jews wrote about the Messiah and we can have a discussion.

Ohyoudidnt:

Tell me was Jesus crucified on the day of the passover or the day before the passover?

Off point. If U want to discuss the passion narrative, open a new thread and tag me.

SIRTee15:

Just say U are embarrassed by the hadiths and we will understand , no need for all these Chery picking.

U can't be choosing what suits your fancy in your islamic literatures yet claim to be Sunni Muslim.

We Christians don't follow the old testament but U will never see a Christian deny the OT, we defend it as much just like we do for the new testament because both are seen as word of God. As much as OT is very inconvenient for most Christians, we will never deny it or attempt to throw it under the bus. NEVER.


The black stone is well documented in your hadiths. No be me or any Christian write am.

The black stone was initially white then became black due to sins of those that kiss it. If it's not removing sins, how did it become black?

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaa said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).


This is the most extreme cognitive dissonance argument I've ever witnessed.
U Muslims travel to Mecca to worship Allah in unity. U circumbulate the kabba to worship Allah. In the same act of worship, U queue to kiss the black stone. But this is not idolatry.
However, a yoruba traditional religion worshipper who wakes up in the morning to pour libation to sacred stones is performing idolatry. He didn't worship the stone, neither did he pray to the stone.
But according to Muslims who just returned from Mecca where they kissed a stone.... the Yoruba man is an idolater because he did exactly same thing the Muslims did- stone veneration.

Muslims are hypocrites. If U dont see this as a big problem with your religion, then you are lost.
U guys are no different from stone worshippers in Africa, the difference is you packaged yours better.


Liar...your prophet honoured it. Muhammed touched the black stone and shouted allahu Akbar. Why would he praise Allah while touching the stone.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

Your prophet also commanded that if a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it.

It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

This shows the level of veneration your prophet gave the black stone. The symbolic gesture of the black stone can be transferred to other objects that touched it according to your Prophet.


The Qur'an didn't mention the black stone at all. Not a single verse was given to the black stone. None.
So why do U guys kiss it, why do U guys venerate it?

This add further proof that veneration of the black stone its not an authentic Islamic practice. Instead it’s spilled over from the ancient Meccan religion into Islam.
The stone represents a goddess of fertility and the whole structure is shaped like a vagina.
Muslims don't realise they follow something ordained by Muhammed and not Allah.
And this makes Muhammed a false prophet.

Its the hadith not Koran that elevated the black stone to level of spiritual significance.

The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944




The gospel of Christ is for everyone. Paul said to the Jews I become like a Jew and to the gentiles I become like a gentile.
The truth is objective and stands out irrespective of religion or belief system. I study every belief system to know how to subjugate it in front of Christ which is the truth.
The problem with Muslims is they fail to think beyond abrahamic religion. They only test their faith against either Christianity or judaism. Oga there are over 1000 religions in the world!!!
Ohyoudidn't, have U ever asked yourself why Islam struggles to penetrate sub Sahara Africa?
Sit down and compare your religion with other African traditional religion, the level of similarity will shock u. This is when it will dawn on you that Islam is a pagan religion.
Yes, it's pagan religion deceiving itself because it's wearing Gucci belt.


God is omnipresent my friend, he's everywhere.

When was these prophecy written up. I dont regard rabbinical Jews who came up 300 yrs after Jesus.
Go and bring what the 2nd temple Jews wrote about the Messiah and we can have a discussion.

Off point. If U want to discuss the passion narrative, open a new thread and tag me.

There you go displaying your inverted reasoning. You and your type make a big deal about the Hadith explaining the Quran yet you cannot bring any Quran verse regarding the black stone.

The Quran always holds the highest authority in Islam, and the Hadith (sayings and actions of Prophet Muhammad) is considered secondary to the Quran. The instruction of the Hadith does not take precedence over the Quran. The Hadith serves as an explanation and commentary on the teachings of the Quran.

When you are able to bring forth a verse on the black stone from the Quran you can continue your advanced diarrhoea. Till then shut up and follow your idol who escaped the confines of your temple.

Lame and stupid statement you make about not following the old testament. Why then is it the old testament kept in the Bible. Your biblical Jesus stating all of the words of God remain valid yet you turn away from it and make a new religion which he himself didn't proclaim? Is this not an advanced psychological disease?


If Muhammad honoured the Black stone as you stupidity claim point to where he praised the stone above Allah or say it was equal or representative of Allah; may such comparison
remain forbidden. It appears you people will need a lot more to get Muslims to make your same type of eternally damming mistake.

Now you got me rolling over. You say God is omnipresent but this presence excludes the temple?

The verses in Micah tell of a universal peace that has not yet manifested. The argument then is if Jesus was this Messiah, why isn’t there world peace? Many Jewish People who are still waiting expectantly for the Messiah are expecting a Messiah who will bring world peace.

The Book of Micah was likely written between 735 and 700 B.C.

Apologies to the OP this guy has diverted your discourse and I have encouraged him. Hopefully he will sincerely and convincingly answer why Jews are not allowed to use their church for worship.

Obviously between the two of them there is severe polytheism that cannot be tolerated by either or critical difference about Jesus and the messiah

Ohyoudidnt:


There you go displaying your inverted reasoning. You and your type make a big deal about the Hadith explaining the Quran yet you cannot bring any Quran verse regarding the black stone.

The Quran always holds the highest authority in Islam, and the Hadith (sayings and actions of Prophet Muhammad) is considered secondary to the Quran. The instruction of the Hadith does not take precedence over the Quran. The Hadith serves as an explanation and commentary on the teachings of the Quran.

When you are able to bring forth a verse on the black stone from the Quran you can continue your advanced diarrhoea. Till then shut up and follow your idol who escaped the confines of your temple.

Lame and stupid statement you make about not following the old testament. Why then is it the old testament kept in the Bible. Your biblical Jesus stating all of the words of God remain valid yet you turn away from it and make a new religion which he himself didn't proclaim? Is this not an advanced psychological disease?


If Muhammad honoured the Black stone as you stupidity claim point to where he praised the stone above Allah or say it was equal or representative of Allah; may such comparison
remain forbidden. It appears you people will need a lot more to get Muslims to make your same type of eternally damming mistake.

Now you got me rolling over. You say God is omnipresent but this presence excludes the temple?

The verses in Micah tell of a universal peace that has not yet manifested. The argument then is if Jesus was this Messiah, why isn’t there world peace? Many Jewish People who are still waiting expectantly for the Messiah are expecting a Messiah who will bring world peace.

The Book of Micah was likely written between 735 and 700 B.C.

Apologies to the OP this guy has diverted your discourse and I have encouraged him. Hopefully he will sincerely and convincingly answer why Jews are not allowed to use their church for worship.

Obviously between the two of them there is severe polytheism that cannot be tolerated by either or critical difference about Jesus and the messiah

TenQ how do you deal with this guys? U show them the truth, they become emotional and start insulting U.
Is this what you ve been going Thu all these years!!!!

He kept shouting Quran Qur'an Quran yet there's no mention of the black stone in the Qur'an at all.
Ohyoudidn't since U said we should use the Qur'an as the final authority, why do U kiss the black stone when the Qur'an never mentioned the black stone? Why?

Ohyoudidn't calm down and drink lots of water, then come back and show me the difference btw these two actions....

SIRTee15:

TenQ how do you deal with this guys? U show them the truth, they become emotional and start insulting U.
Is this what you ve been going Thu all these years!!!!

He kept shouting Quran Qur'an Quran yet there's no mention of the black stone in the Qur'an at all.
Ohyoudidn't since U said we should use the Qur'an as the final authority, why do U kiss the black stone when the Qur'an never mentioned the black stone? Why?

Ohyoudidn't calm down and drink lots of water, then come back and show me the difference btw these two actions....

For your age, training and experience this is grossly disappointing and unexpected.
Trace who started insults and you will find yourself.

Touching or kissing the Black Stone is for association with the great Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); it does not imply any reverence whatsoever

Sorry I don't subscribe to the concept of turning the other cheek.

It is no lie that the Quran takes precedence over the Hadith.

Remember this post is Fun Fact: Jews Can Pray In A Mosque But The Church? Never. - Religion - Nairaland so if you have any other questions that haven't been answered open another thread or seek other means of fulfilling your research.

Ohyoudidnt:


For your age, training and experience this is grossly disappointing and unexpected.
Trace who started insults and you will find yourself.

Oga I didn't insult U. I didn't insult your Allah or prophet.
I only said Islam is a pagan religion. And sir, that's not an insult but an observation. Unfortunately U couldn't bring evidence to prove otherwise.

Ohyoudidnt:

Touching or kissing the Black Stone is for association with the great Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); it does not imply any reverence whatsoever

No problem since U have rejected all hadiths and generated your own opinion based on bias logic.
Now based on your own hermeneutics, ihat means a Yoruba traditional worshipper who is pouring libation on a stone due to association with obatala hasn't done anything wrong. Muslims cannot accuse such person of idolatry
Agree with above and we will end the discussion.

Ohyoudidnt:

Sorry I don't subscribe to the concept of turning the other cheek.

I never asked U to turn the other cheek and I don't subscribe to it either. That verse is one of the most misinterpreted verse in the bible.

Ohyoudidnt:

It is no lie that the Quran takes precedence over the Hadith.

Muhammed told U Muslims multiple times not to follow him blindly. He warned U that if a statement from his mouth isn't a revelation, thread with caution.
Muhammed never brought a verse on black stone. U don't know why he kissed the black stone- maybe in honour of his dead father. I just saw him kissed the black stone and Muslims decided to kiss the black stone.
Unfortunately, U guys dont have access to angel jibril to correct any mistakes or error. Angel jibril stopped communicating with mankind after the death of Muhammed.
Now Muslims are trapped with kissing the stone which is evidently idolatry no matter how U argue it out.

Ohyoudidnt:

Remember this post is Fun Fact: Jews Can Pray In A Mosque But The Church? Never. - Religion - Nairaland so if you have any other questions that haven't been answered open another thread or seek other means of fulfilling your research.

I already answered the questions.
Over a million Jews worship in churches with Christians. I told U to research messianic Jews, did U look into it?

Other Jews that continue to pray to temple walls are idolaters. Maybe that's why they are happy to worship in mosque since they both share similar pagan practice.
In fact, I see no reason why pagan Jews and Muslims cannot go and pray in shrines. Seriously, I can't deduce why not.
The practice is similar in all 3 religion- idolatry.

Ohyoudidnt:


For your age, training and experience this is grossly disappointing and unexpected.
Trace who started insults and you will find yourself.

Touching or kissing the Black Stone is for association with the great Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); it does not imply any reverence whatsoever

Sorry I don't subscribe to the concept of turning the other cheek.

It is no lie that the Quran takes precedence over the Hadith.

Remember this post is Fun Fact: Jews Can Pray In A Mosque But The Church? Never. - Religion - Nairaland so if you have any other questions that haven't been answered open another thread or seek other means of fulfilling your research.

See below and tell me this is not idolatry.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fWycluxLpvM?si=B1p3z11c5fqAVfVH

SIRTee15:


See below and tell me this is not idolatry.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fWycluxLpvM?si=B1p3z11c5fqAVfVH

The thread remains

Remember this post is Fun Fact: Jews Can Pray In A Mosque But The Church?

Enough of your derailment please though it's a common tactic with you and your likes when you cannot adequately address issues pertaining to your creed.

SIRTee15:

Oga I didn't insult U. I didn't insult your Allah or prophet.
I only said Islam is a pagan religion. And sir, that's not an insult but an observation. Unfortunately U couldn't bring evidence to prove otherwise.


No problem since U have rejected all hadiths and generated your own opinion based on bias logic.
Now based on your own hermeneutics, ihat means a Yoruba traditional worshipper who is pouring libation on a stone due to association with obatala hasn't done anything wrong. Muslims cannot accuse such person of idolatry
Agree with above and we will end the discussion.


I never asked U to turn the other cheek and I don't subscribe to it either. That verse is one of the most misinterpreted verse in the bible.


Muhammed told U Muslims multiple times not to follow him blindly. He warned U that if a statement from his mouth isn't a revelation, thread with caution.
Muhammed never brought a verse on black stone. U don't know why he kissed the black stone- maybe in honour of his dead father. I just saw him kissed the black stone and Muslims decided to kiss the black stone.
Unfortunately, U guys dont have access to angel jibril to correct any mistakes or error. Angel jibril stopped communicating with mankind after the death of Muhammed.
Now Muslims are trapped with kissing the stone which is evidently idolatry no matter how U argue it out.



I already answered the questions.
Over a million Jews worship in churches with Christians. I told U to research messianic Jews, did U look into it?

Other Jews that continue to pray to temple walls are idolaters. Maybe that's why they are happy to worship in mosque since they both share similar pagan practice.
In fact, I see no reason why pagan Jews and Muslims cannot go and pray in shrines. Seriously, I can't deduce why not.
The practice is similar in all 3 religion- idolatry.

The thread remains

Remember this post is Fun Fact: Jews Can Pray In A Mosque But The Church?

Enough of your derailment please though it's a common tactic with you and your likes when you cannot adequately address issues pertaining to your creed.

We are not asking about Jews that convert to Christianity or messianship of Jews but the Jews practicing in accord with the old testament which you say you don't follow.

Jews practicing Judaism believe that the Messiah, or Mashiach, will be a human leader who will bring about an age of peace and understanding for all people. This belief is based on various prophecies in Jewish scripture, such as those found in the books of Isaiah and Jeremiah. One of the most well-known prophecies about the Messiah is found in Jeremiah 23:5, which states, “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land.”

Jews believe that the Messianic Age can only begin after the arrival of the Messiah on Earth, while others believe that humans can bring about the Messianic Age through their actions. Regardless of these differences, however, most Jews agree that the Messiah will be a human being who will bring peace and understanding to all people.

They believe the expected messiah to be a powerful leader who would establish Israel as a dominant nation, defeat their enemies, and usher in an era of peace and prosperity. The prevailing expectation was that the Messiah would be a victorious warrior-king like David rather than a suffering servant.

Are these differences not part of why they don't consider Christianity or worship in the church? Do they expect the messiah to re-establish the Temple?

Zechariah 6:
12 Tell him this is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord.

13 It is he who will build the temple of the Lord, and he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne And he will be a priest on his throne. And there will be harmony between the two.’

Furthermore; Isaiah 11:1-5 speaks of a future ruler from the line of Jesse (King David’s father) who will possess wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, and fear of the Lord. This figure is often interpreted as a messianic figure who will bring justice and righteousness to the world.

SIRTee15:

Baba oniro. Why U dey lie like this.

Labeling someone as cognitive dissonance is a gross accusation and too dismissive.


Your insulting language

elhakiimed:



Your emotions proceeds your thinking no doubt or perhaps you're just clueless about what you're saying.

The prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him, accommodated Jews and Christians till his passing. Muslims today do the same.

Christians need Islam to be hated to feel secure in their faith, not the other way.

Fools like you always think every cry is against you. It's actions like yours that's escalating your faith's dwindling influence worldwide.

I remember telling U that Islam is built solely to antagonise Christianity. U denied it.
Here is your imam spewing hatred against Christianity. Christians didn't attack him or his church. Christians didnt say anything bad about his beliefs.

Yet he's telling his followers to buy guns and attack Christians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLUqglxi60?si=ioI-5LeeRMhaZ8VO