Disclaimer: My posts are not to spite you nor your faith. I'm here for mature mutually respectful discussions, but please don't test my patience.

Here goes nothing:

Although, I don't believe in Jesus crucifixion in the way that Christians do (Mulsims belief it wasn't Jesus crucified, and he was instead raised alive amd his appearance cast on someone else), I'm curious about some details in your narration.

The Bible contains passages that reflect Jesus’ emotions and hesitations about his impending crucifixion. One of the most poignant examples is found in the Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus prays to God expressing his distress and seeking another way if possible.



Matthew 26:36-46: Jesus says, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” This passage shows Jesus’ deep sorrow and his request to avoid the suffering if there is another way




Mark 14:36: Echoing a similar sentiment, Jesus prays, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me; yet not what I will, but what you will.”


Luke 22:42: Again, Jesus expresses his desire for the suffering to be taken away, saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”


These verses are evident of Jesus's fear of death, which insinuates his life and death isn't in his hands, as is supposed of a God.


Please clarify.

elhakiimed:

These verses are evident of Jesus's fear of death, which insinuates his life and death isn't in his hands, as is supposed of a God.

This is why you need to speak with members of the one and only Christian group:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

When i was a Muslim i asked the same question but i was shocked to know what made Jesus uncomfortable.

He knew for sure that he will be executed and it will surely come from his enemies but as for the accusation that's what really irritates him.

Jesus will be ACCUSED, ARRESTED, CHARGED, ARRAIGNED, TRIED, CONVICTED, JUDGED, SENTENCED and EXECUTED as a BLASPHEMER of God's Holy name!

This is the name Jesus has ever held with high esteem even before he came as a human the name he cherished so much that he taught his disciples to always SANCTIFY {Matthew 6:9} telling them all the good qualities his father has and jealousy speaking highly of his father's name! John 17:6, 26

So for those Jews to have come up with this plan means it's not their own idea rather it's the idea of God's worst enemy Satan the Devil.
He knew Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who love his father so much that he is ready to do anything to protect God's name from been defamed that's why Satan used his human agents {John 8:44} to put Jesus in that tight corner knowing fully well that it will not go down well with him.
Secondly Jesus so much love humans most out of all the creatures God used him to create {Colossians 1:15-16 compare to Proverbs 8:22-31} but he has a much more soft spot for the descendants of Jacob and most especially the Jews {John 4:22} so for the generations of Jews yet unborn how will it sound that the man who is the Messiah was accused, arrested, charged, arraigned, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed as a blasphemer or imposter?
This would make it really difficult for Jewish generations yet unborn to accept whatever is said about Jesus and that's exactly what really happened!
In the whole of Israel today thousands of people who so much love Jerusalem and believe in the coming of the Messiah finds it really difficult to agree with what Jesus' disciples penned down that he was the promised Messiah less than 2% of the whole population are studying about him while .oo2% are his real disciples in a country where he was born!

So my guy it wasn't death that irritated Jesus because he knew that's what he came to do for the entire human race to be saved {Matthew 20:28} rather it's the circumstances surrounding his execution that made him feel uncomfortable.

For instance imagine a man named Muritala Ramat Muhammad who was executed in 1976, this man was so loved by common Nigerians as he really made Nigeria like a haven for the average Nigerian do you think such a person could be accused, arrested, charged, arraigned, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed before Nigerians?
Well the powers that be doesn't want such a leader so they schemed his execution and he was forgotten with all his programs that made life so easy for Nigerians.
The first century Jewish religious leaders knew there's no way they can bring their people to accept that Jesus was evil yet they wanted him dead {John 11:48 & 53} that's why they began attacking his disciples not to tell anyone about the things Jesus did and taught! Act 5:28

elhakiimed:
Disclaimer: My posts are not to spite you nor your faith. I'm here for mature mutually respectful discussions, but please don't test my patience.
Here goes nothing:
Although, I don't believe in Jesus crucifixion in the way that Christians do (Mulsims belief it wasn't Jesus crucified, and he was instead raised alive amd his appearance cast on someone else), I'm curious about some details in your narration.
The Bible contains passages that reflect Jesus’ emotions and hesitations about his impending crucifixion. One of the most poignant examples is found in the Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus prays to God expressing his distress and seeking another way if possible.
Matthew 26:36-46: Jesus says, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” This passage shows Jesus’ deep sorrow and his request to avoid the suffering if there is another way
Mark 14:36: Echoing a similar sentiment, Jesus prays, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me; yet not what I will, but what you will.”
Luke 22:42: Again, Jesus expresses his desire for the suffering to be taken away, saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”
These verses are evident of Jesus's fear of death, which insinuates his life and death isn't in his hands, as is supposed of a God.
Please clarify.

Like every other character out there to gain full understanding you have to read the entire story, not just bits and pieces which you pick from here and there.
▶ The prophecies said He would be born and then He would die at the hands of His people. Jesus Christ came knowing and accepting this.

14-15 “I am the shepherd who cares for the sheep. I know my sheep just as the Father knows me. And my sheep know me just as I know the Father. I give my life for these sheep.
16 I have other sheep too. They are not in this flock here. I must lead them also. They will listen to my voice. In the future there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17 The Father loves me because I give my life. I give my life so that I can get it back again.
18 No one takes my life away from me. I give my own life freely. I have the right to give my life, and I have the right to get it back again. This is what the Father told me.” - John 10 vs 14 - 18

▶ As for the cup of poison, the cup filled with God's anger and wrath, no one who loves God desires such a cup. Death is one thing but God's anger and wrath is a completely different thing. Of course, Jesus Christ prayed against it if it was God's Will to take it from Him that is.

17 Wake up! Wake up! Jerusalem, get up! The Lord was very angry with you. So you were punished. It was like a cup of poison you had to drink, and you drank it all.
18 Jerusalem had many people, but none of them became leaders for her. None of the children she raised became guides to lead her.
19 Troubles came to you, Jerusalem, in pairs: Your land was destroyed and lies in ruins, and your people suffered from famine and war. But no one felt sorry for you or showed you mercy.
20 Your people became weak. They fell on the ground and lay there. They were lying on every street corner, like animals caught in a net. They were punished by the Lord’s anger until they could not accept any more punishment. When God said he would give them more punishment, they became very weak.
21 Listen to me, poor Jerusalem. You are weak like a drunk, but you are not drunk from wine. You are weak from that “cup of poison.”
22 Your God is the one who fights for his people. He is your Lord God, and he says to you, “Look, I am taking this ‘cup of poison’ away from you. It is full of my anger, and I am taking it out of your hand. You will not be punished by my anger again.
23 I will now use my anger to punish the people who hurt you. They tried to kill you. They told you, ‘Bow down before us, and we will walk on you.’ They forced you to bow down before them, and then they walked on your back like dirt. You were like a road for them to walk on.” - Isaiah 51 vs 17 - 23

▶ The cup of God's wrath is meant for those who are cursed by God, particularly those who have sinned against God of Israel, YHWH.

14 “They will say, ‘Why are we just sitting here? Come, let’s run to the strong cities. If the Lord our God is going to make us die, then let’s die there. We have sinned against the Lord, so he has given us poisoned water to drink.
15 We hoped to have peace, but nothing good has come. We hoped that he would forgive us, but only disaster has come.
16 From the land of the tribe of Dan, we hear the snorting of the enemy’s horses. The ground shakes from the pounding of their hooves.
They have come to destroy the land and everything in it. They have come to destroy the city and all the people who live there.’”
17 “People of Judah, I am sending poisonous snakes[c] to attack you. These snakes cannot be controlled. They will bite you.” This message is from the Lord. - Jeremiah 8 vs 14 - 17

Jesus Christ sensibly did not want to drink the wrath of His Father and that was the reason why He asked if the Father could remove it from Him.

elhakiimed:
Disclaimer: My posts are not to spite you nor your faith. I'm here for mature mutually respectful discussions, but please don't test my patience.

Here goes nothing:

Although, I don't believe in Jesus crucifixion in the way that Christians do (Mulsims belief it wasn't Jesus crucified, and he was instead raised alive amd his appearance cast on someone else), I'm curious about some details in your narration.

The Bible contains passages that reflect Jesus’ emotions and hesitations about his impending crucifixion. One of the most poignant examples is found in the Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus prays to God expressing his distress and seeking another way if possible.



Matthew 26:36-46: Jesus says, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” This passage shows Jesus’ deep sorrow and his request to avoid the suffering if there is another way




Mark 14:36: Echoing a similar sentiment, Jesus prays, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me; yet not what I will, but what you will.”


Luke 22:42: Again, Jesus expresses his desire for the suffering to be taken away, saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”


These verses are evident of Jesus's fear of death, which insinuates his life and death isn't in his hands, as is supposed of a God.


Please clarify.

Obviously, Jesus had a will but He subjected his will to God's.

The suffering of the crucifixion, scourging, mocking, slapping, punching, spitting, etc. were nothing compared to the pains of spiritual separation from God.

When Jesus cried, "My father, have you forsaken me"? He was heartbroken. It was very painful to Jesus to be separated from his loving father, although for a brief time.

Jesus became a sin offering on the cross, thus His father turned His back on Him for a period of time.

judedwriter:
■ Obviously, Jesus had a will but He subjected his will to God's. The suffering of the crucifixion, scourging, mocking, slapping, punching, spitting, etc. were nothing compared to the pains of spiritual separation from God. When Jesus cried, "My father, have you forsaken me"? He was heartbroken. It was very painful to Jesus to be separated from his loving father, although for a brief time. Jesus became a sin offering on the cross, thus His father turned His back on Him for a period of time.

That's ridiculous!

How could He have, being under the curse of the cross, been regarded as a sin offering? If you have ever in fact read through the Law on the subject - Leviticus 4 - you would have learnt that a sin offering is meant to have no blemish whatsoever i.e. no curse or stain! Jesus Christ drank God's cup of poison by sitting as a cursed entity on the cross. There was everything wrong with Jesus Christ being under a curse at the time. He was hung on the cross to die a cursed death. Add to that the fact that Jesus Christ never said His Death was some sort of sin offering. So, how in the world did you decide to declare Him a sin offering for Pete's sake?

See as them de twist dem self up and down with no concrete evidence from thier book...
Jesus himself said they begged for the change of faith... If he already known that he will be hanged.. will he be asking for God to change the faith again since he had prepared for it.
Stop twisting nonsense guys Max, kobojunkie and others, lies full ur head

Expanse2020:
■ See as them de twist dem self up and down with no concrete evidence from thier book...
Jesus himself said they begged for the change of faith... If he already known that he will be hanged.. will he be asking for God to change the faith again since he had prepared for it.
Stop twisting nonsense guys ... and others, lies full ur head

They begged for the change of faith? Where is this written abeg! What does this even mean ?

Also, what do you mean He already knew He would be hanged?

Yes, he was the one that told Judas to deliver him.

Kobojunkie:
They begged for the change of faith? Where is this written abeg! What does this even mean ?

Also, what do you mean He already knew He would be hanged?

Jesus said Elloh Elloh limon sabartanii (My father my father change this hour for if only it's your will)... If he know he will be hung did he needs to begged again....

Mark 14:36: Echoing a similar sentiment, Jesus prays, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me; yet not what I will, but what you will.”

MaxInDHouse:


This is why you need to speak with members of the one and only Christian group:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

When i was a Muslim i asked the same question but i was shocked to know what made Jesus uncomfortable.

He knew for sure that he will be executed and it will surely come from his enemies but as for the accusation that's what really irritates him.

Jesus will be ACCUSED, ARRESTED, CHARGED, ARRAIGNED, TRIED, CONVICTED, JUDGED, SENTENCED and EXECUTED as a BLASPHEMER of God's Holy name!

This is the name Jesus has ever held with high esteem even before he came as a human the name he cherished so much that he taught his disciples to always SANCTIFY {Matthew 6:9} telling them all the good qualities his father has and jealousy speaking highly of his father's name! John 17:6, 26

So for those Jews to have come up with this plan means it's not their own idea rather it's the idea of God's worst enemy Satan the Devil.
He knew Jesus is the only begotten Son of God- (Emphasis Mine) who love his father so much that he is ready to do anything to protect God's name from been defamed that's why Satan used his human agents {John 8:44} to put Jesus in that tight corner knowing fully well that it will not go down well with him.
Secondly Jesus so much love humans most out of all the creatures God used him to create {Colossians 1:15-16 compare to Proverbs 8:22-31} but he has a much more soft spot for the descendants of Jacob and most especially the Jews {John 4:22} so for the generations of Jews yet unborn how will it sound that the man who is the Messiah was accused, arrested, charged, arraigned, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed as a blasphemer or imposter?
This would make it really difficult for Jewish generations yet unborn to accept whatever is said about Jesus and that's exactly what really happened!
In the whole of Israel today thousands of people who so much love Jerusalem and believe in the coming of the Messiah finds it really difficult to agree with what Jesus' disciples penned down that he was the promised Messiah less than 2% of the whole population are studying about him while .oo2% are his real disciples in a country where he was born!

So my guy it wasn't death that irritated Jesus because he knew that's what he came to do for the entire human race to be saved {Matthew 20:28} rather it's the circumstances surrounding his execution that made him feel uncomfortable.

For instance imagine a man named Muritala Ramat Muhammad who was executed in 1976, this man was so loved by common Nigerians as he really made Nigeria like a haven for the average Nigerian do you think such a person could be accused, arrested, charged, arraigned, tried, convicted, judged, sentenced and executed before Nigerians?
Well the powers that be doesn't want such a leader so they schemed his execution and he was forgotten with all his programs that made life so easy for Nigerians.
The first century Jewish religious leaders knew there's no way they can bring their people to accept that Jesus was evil yet they wanted him dead {John 11:48 & 53} that's why they began attacking his disciples not to tell anyone about the things Jesus did and taught! Act 5:28

At the bolded, my dear Maxindhouse. If Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God, how then did He become an angel in your doctrine?

Expanse2020:
■ Jesus said Elloh Elloh limon sabartanii (My father my father change this hour for if only it's your will)... If he know he will be hung did he needs to begged again....
Mark 14:36: Echoing a similar sentiment, Jesus prays, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Take this cup away from me; yet not what I will, but what you will.”

You clearly have no clue what you are even talking of but I see that didn't stop you!

Kobojunkie:
You clearly have no clue what you are even talking of but I see that didn't stop you!

So you explain the meaning of forsake to the world....
If Jesus knew he will be hang did he needs to begged God or to tell God he forsake him...

I taught him himself is God he can't deal with little isrealites he created himself 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂

Expanse2020:
■ So you explain the meaning of forsake to the world.... If Jesus knew he will be hang did he needs to begged God or to tell God he forsake him... ■ I taught him himself is God he can't deal with little isrealites he created himself 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂

You didn't answer my questions from earlier!

Kobojunkie:
▶ They begged for a change of faith? Where is this written abeg! What does this even mean ?
▶ Also, what do you mean He already knew He would be hanged?

▶ Where do you get this idea of yours that he himself is God of Israel from?

Kobojunkie:
You didn't answer my questions from earlier! ▶ Where do you get this idea of yours that he himself is God of Israel from?

most of the fool believe Jesus Know he will die on the Cross.....that what Xtians folks always said

Expanse2020:
most of the fool believe Jesus Know he will die on the Cross.....that what Xtians folks always said

Have you ever heard the saying "1 million ways to die,"?

Jesus Christ did know He was going to die. He said He had to die. You claim that He knew He would die by hanging though. So, my question is to ascertain how you came about this idea of yours.

---

🕜🕡🕦🕧🤔
Anyways, it seems Jesus Christ may just have realized that he would be hanged at least at Gethsemane when He prayed that the cup of God's anger be taken from Him if and only if it be His Father's Will!. Nothing against the law in doing so.

Kobojunkie:
Have you ever heard the saying "1 million ways to die,"?

Jesus Christ did know He was going to die. He said He had to die. You claim that He knew He would die by hanging though. So, my question is to ascertain how you came about this idea of yours.

---

🕜🕡🕦🕧🤔
Anyways, it seems Jesus Christ may just have realized that he would be hanged at least at Gethsemane when He prayed that the cup of God's anger be taken from Him if and only if it be His Father's Will!. Nothing against the law in doing so.

Awww, t
So if he already knew he had die by hanging squared he didn't need to begged God to changed his situation nevertheless asking the God he forsook him.. he should have accept the faith or the situation by saying, here home I come

Expanse2020:


Awww, t
So if he already knew he had die by hanging squared he didn't need to begged God to changed his situation nevertheless asking the God he forsook him.. he should have accept the faith or the situation by saying, here home I come

Come to think of it; can we compare this to the sacrifice of Abraham though not as a means to salvation of his first son as he had pledged?

I have not come across Abraham's initial planned first child sacrifice complaining. Is there a case of Abraham's child being more submissive than the Biblical Jesus?

Is it that Abraham and his first child had a less human side than the allegedly divine and human Jesus?

Expanse2020:

Awww, t
So if he already knew he had die by hanging squared he didn't need to begged God to changed his situation nevertheless asking the God he forsook him.. he should have accept the faith or the situation by saying, here home I come

I still don't understand what you are saying at all.

Jesus Christ knew He had to die and accepted that fact. Later, we discover that not only did He have to de but it had to be a cursed death, a death which no man who loves God would even desire -- God forsakes those who are cursed ---, and so Jesus Christ prayed that the father to take that kind of death away from Him if it be an option in His Will. Turned out it was not an option and Jesus Christ had to endure it. So, He did and when the curse came upon Him for hanging in a tree to die, Jesus Christ made it known by way of the statement He made on the Father, Father, Why have you forsaken me... a statement spoken by David in His Psalms. And following that same statement, the same Jesus Christ said, "Father(the same Fathe), into your hands I command my Spirit." The end.

So, what exactly are you arguing here?

Kobojunkie:
I still don't understand what you are saying at all.

Jesus Christ knew He had to die and accepted that fact. Later, we discover that not only did He have to de but it had to be a cursed death, a death which no man who loves God would even desire -- God forsakes those who are cursed ---, and so Jesus Christ prayed that the father to take that kind of death away from Him if it be an option in His Will. Turned out it was not an option and Jesus Christ had to endure it. So, He did and when the curse came upon Him for hanging in a tree to die, Jesus Christ made it known by way of the statement He made on the Father, Father, Why have you forsaken me... a statement spoken by David in His Psalms. And following that same statement, the same Jesus Christ said, "Father(the same Fathe), into your hands I command my Spirit." The end.

So, what exactly are you arguing here?

This appears a very complicated twist. Was Jesus not willing to take up the curse of all mankind in order to redeem them?

It brings more questions as to if he was there with God from the beginning and now forgets the curse and generational inheritance of the original sin and ancestral sins due to disobedience.

FxMasterz:

At the bolded, my dear Maxindhouse. If Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God, how then did He become an angel in your doctrine?

He is the Archangel Michael the one and only being directly created by God that's the meaning of ONLY BEGOTTEN! Proverbs 8:22-31

I'm not here for your nonsense if you want to make a contribution go ahead!

FxMasterz:


At the bolded, my dear Maxindhouse. If Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God, how then did He become an angel in your doctrine?

Define an angel

Aemmyjah:

Define an angel

He's just confused!

Aemmyjah:


Define an angel

You want to twist and manipulate again? Aemmyjah, only a fool would take you serious.

MaxInDHouse:


He is the Archangel Michael the one and only being directly created by God that's the meaning of ONLY BEGOTTEN! Proverbs 8:22-31

I'm not here for your nonsense if you want to make a contribution go ahead!

One of the many lies told to you by the satanic cult. Keep enjoying the lies since you already have a security job with them which fetches you your daily bread.

FxMasterz:


You want to twist and manipulate again? Aemmyjah, only a fool would take you serious.

Define angel
If you cannot
I'll define for you

Aemmyjah:



Define angel
If you cannot
I'll define for you

Why ask me such a foolish question just because you want to say that Jesus is Michael?

FxMasterz:

One of the many lies told to you by the satanic cult. Keep enjoying the lies since you already have a security job with them which fetches you your daily bread.

One of the many LIES that's WORKING OUT what is BENEFICIAL throughout the earth shey?

Continue deceiving yourself!

FxMasterz:


Why ask me such a foolish question just because you want to say that Jesus is Michael?

So defining an angel is a foolish question? Issok

Aemmyjah:



So defining an angel is a foolish question? Issok

It's foolish as long as it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Just go ahead and tell us how Jesus is Michael instead of asking a foolish question.

FxMasterz:


It's foolish as long as it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Just go ahead and tell us how Jesus is Michael instead of asking a foolish question.

You be old woman
Be intelligent na
I'll explain to you
Let's first understand 2 things
Jesus being an angel or not
Jesus being Michael or not.

Now, define an angel
All your drama is a sign of unintelligence

Aemmyjah:



You be old woman
Be intelligent na
I'll explain to you
Let's first understand 2 things
Jesus being an angel or not
Jesus being Michael or not.

Now, define an angel
All your drama is a sign of unintelligence

Get away from here!

What's all about the simple definition of an angel that you're very arrogant about?

You kids would come to Nairaland and think you know everything more than everybody.

If you want to know the meaning of an angel, go search a theological dictionary. If you have anything to say, say it and stop asking me foolish questions.

Aemmyjah:

So defining an angel is a foolish question? Issok

I just pray that a day won't come when one of these guys will bite you for arguing with them!