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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? (836 Views)
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Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 4:05pm On May 28 |
Ohyoudidnt:1. Where did Jesus Christ state that He had to take on the curse of all mankind for Pete's sake? The man was a Holy and Righteous man who was to be subjected to death, not just any kind of death but the death of a cursed man. He prayed that if it be God's Will to have Him not die by a curse, that God grant Him this. Simple! The same Jesus Christ right there and then said, "Not my Will, but yours be done!, so where do you get that He was not willing? 42 Then Jesus went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if I must do this and it is not possible for me to escape it, then I pray that what you want will be done.”... 35 Jesus went on a little farther away from them, fell to the ground, and prayed. He asked that, if possible, he would not have this time of suffering.... 41 Then Jesus went about 50 steps away from them. He knelt down and prayed,How is what is clearly shown to be simple complicated for you? 2. Where is it written that because He was there with God in the Beginning, He therefore Knows All Things though? Why do you lot keep subjecting Him to your very imaginations and not in fact what is written? What remains obvious from many of these questions is that your understanding of Scripture does not come from actually investigating the book for yourselves but from religious interpretations that do not align with what is written. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Aemmyjah(m): 4:08pm On May 28 |
MaxInDHouse: 😂 I will shake them into the fire like Paul did to the 🐍 |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Aemmyjah(m): 4:10pm On May 28 |
FxMasterz: Oga I never went to school I be illiterate Dem tell me say angel na person wey de carry wing like bird de fly for heaven So define an angel We know how silly people try to run from debates they started |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:10pm On May 28 |
Aemmyjah:
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Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:14pm On May 28 |
Aemmyjah: What's paining him now is how you want to hook him with that question. Ever since i discover he's not sincere with himself i have cut him off completely nah joke a dey follow am joke now i no dey take am serious again!
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Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by FxMasterz: 5:11pm On May 28 |
Aemmyjah: You see, I'm not going to be dragged into your occultic vulgarity. If you can't tell us why you call Jesus angel Micheal, just shut up and pack yourself away. 1 Like |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by AnCorner: 5:59pm On May 28 |
Kobojunkie: If Jesus isn't All-knowing (which is an attribute of the one true God), then why do Christians call him God? Why do they worship him? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 6:03pm On May 28 |
AnCorner:I am not a speaker for the Christians given I am myself not a Christian so I can't help you there. I don't pretend to hold brief for the Christians since God of Israel, and Jesus Christ are famously known to be against Religion. My particular question to you, however, as a follower of Jesus Christ, is why can't I worship Jesus Christ even though He is not All-knowing? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by AnCorner: 6:33pm On May 28 |
Only the Almighty is All-knowing and he should be worshipped alone. If you're a follower of Jesus then why are you not doing what he asked you to do? He asked you to pray to God. He prayed and worshipped God, then why are you worshipping him instead? Just like some people worship Mary because she was pious but they forgot that she prayed to God, too. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 6:48pm On May 28 |
AnCorner:1. Where is this Law of yours clearly stated? 2. How did you conclude that I am not doing what Jesus Christ asked me to do? 3. What makes you think I do not pray to God? 4. Wait a minute... Jesus Christ prayed and worshipped God of Israel — YHWH — since He, Jesus Christ was a subject/citizen in the very same Nation of Israel which the God of Israel Constituted in the Land of Canaan by His Law given to those in the Land through Moses. I am not a citizen of the same Nation neither am I a subject to the same Constitutional Law, so why must I do as Jesus Christ did? Where is it written that I must do as Jesus Christ did? 5. Mary was a disciple of Jesus Christ meaning she abandoned the Old Law to worship Jesus Christ. How can being a disciple of Jesus Christ be considered the same as worshiping one who is a mere disciple? please try to answer all questions asked. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by AnCorner: 11:22pm On May 28 |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by AnCorner: 11:23pm On May 28 |
Kobojunkie: 1. What law? That God is not the only one who is All-knowing? 2. I concluded because you stated that you worship Jesus, but Jesus asked you to worship God not him. Jesus asked you to pray to God. You are praying to Jesus. 3. You stated yourself that you pray to Jesus. Except you pray to Jesus and you also pray to God. Jesus asked you to pray to God alone. Jesus and God are not equal. 4. You don't have to do as Jesus did, but you mentioned earlier that you worship Jesus. Then it's funny if you say you don't have to do as Jesus did, when you worship him. 5. Some people worship Mary in this time. Where did Mary abandon the old law to worship Jesus? Even Jesus did not abandon the old law. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 12:23am On May 29 |
AnCorner:I see you are attempting to argue from a point of general ignorance of Scripture and all that in fact applies, and I am not interested. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Ohyoudidnt: 5:27am On May 29 |
Kobojunkie: Is it not stated in Matthew 5:17 that Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. If he didn't know how then was he fulfilling these laws? Doesn't Galatians 3:13 not read Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole. Seems you are verifying that even the author of Galatians didn't understand zit or is it you? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 5:30am On May 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:1. He didn't know how of what. 2. What is written in Galatians was not recorded as the Words out of the mouth of Jesus Christ, so try to focus. The question was regarding what was said by Jesus Christ Himself, and not that which was said of Jesus Christ. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Ohyoudidnt: 5:43am On May 29 |
Kobojunkie: So what is written in Galatians is not related to Jesus and what he did? Oh please. Do you infer Jesus didn't know his being sacrificed to redeem mankind involved his taking up the curse of mankind? Matthew 26:39 Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will. You don't see that there is nothing similar recorded about Abraham and his first child? Now this exactly is the point. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 5:49am On May 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:1. This thread is not about what is written in Galatians but what is presented in the Gospels. 2. Reading through the Gospels, there is no mention of the taking of this curse of Mankind you keep insisting on throughout all of the Gospels. 3. Abraham? I don't follow! Exactly what point? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Ohyoudidnt: 6:07am On May 29 |
Kobojunkie:Did you not say? Kobojunkie: You now limit to the Gospels as they are separate from the scripture? The entire Bible then is not scripture Does Galatians 1: 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. In reference to the Gospel? Following too on this comment by Explore2xmore Explore2xmore: Specifically in this case you say Kobojunkie: Do you say Jesus knowing he had to die which is understood as a means to redeem mankind he will not be taking up the curse of mankind? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 2:47pm On May 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:1. I didn't limit the Gospel, God Himself did! God of Israel declared that no man can add, remove, or change anything declared in His Laws, of which the Gospel is one. 2. Galatians is not the Gospel/Law of God. If you are not able to debate only that contained in the Gospel as indicated by the OP, then no point. 3. First of all, Jesus Christ never said He was a sacrifice like Isaac so I don't understand the connection the other attempted to make. Second, there is no decree given by God that man is not to ask particular things in prayer. Third, Jesus Christ never said He died for mankind. Now to the fourth, Jesus Christ prophesied of His Death in Matthew 12 vs 40, Mark 8:31-33, Mark 9 vs 30-32, Mark 10 vs 32-34, Matthew 17 vs 22–23 & Luke 9 vs 43–45 & John 10 vs 7-18 & Luke 18 vs 31-34 & Luke 9 vs 21-22. Following what is presented in the Gospels regarding His death, He did not mention before Gethsemane, that He would need to drink the cup of God's poison in any of the above references. I hope you are done with this meaningless back and forth at this point cause this seems more and more an attempt to convolute that which is simply stated in the Gospels out of ignorance. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 3:42pm On May 29 |
Explore2xmore:First of all, Jesus Christ was not a child sacrifice. He never said He was any such so I am not certain why you would assert that which is not even of His Truth. Second, can you explain how any of the highlighted amounts to a complaint? 42 Then Jesus went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if I must do this and it is not possible for me to escape it, then I pray that what you want will be done.”... 35 Jesus went on a little farther away from them, fell to the ground, and prayed. He asked that, if possible, he would not have this time of suffering.... 41 Then Jesus went about 50 steps away from them. He knelt down and prayed,Which of the above do you reason is a complaint? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Ohyoudidnt: 5:32pm On May 29 |
Kobojunkie: Indeed Jesus was not a child but is repeated referred to as son of God. How different is a son of God from a child of God? Abraham who was performing the sacrifice is not classified as a child but the father. Prayer and complaining can coexist within our relationship with God. We may start with a complaint, but ultimately turn to prayer for strength, guidance, and hope. From a desire against something to a desire for something comes the prayer. Kobojunkie: Didn't you say Kobojunkie: Is there reference to the Gospel in the Galatians and are the two not part of the Biblical scripture? Seems you forgot. Jesus didn't die for mankind but this is said of him. Jesus is also said to be God who is reported to say he so loved the world that he gave his 'only begotten son' that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. This is in line with John 3:16. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is seen as an expression of God’s love and mercy towards humanity. See Matthew 16:21, Mark 8:31etc. Did Paul not say in 1 Corinthians 15:14-17 that And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith? Was this statement of Paul not in reference to the Gospel? The point again is as recorded by the scripture and Gospel; if Jesus knew he was to suffer many things including death why then did he pray against it and attempt to have the disciples guard against his capture to fulfilling this? Does it mean that Jesus the son of God did not fully submit to the will of God? I end my submissions. |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Kobojunkie: 6:28pm On May 29 |
Ohyoudidnt:Jesus Christ never once referred to Himself as a sacrifice though. Neither, did He suggest that His Father sacrificed Him. The God of Israel never suggested the Messiah He would send as some sort of sacrifice. So, again,where does this connection of yours come from? 2. So, prayer is no longer about Asking, seeking and knocking but about complaining? Ok! What is instead written is that Jesus Christ did not desire the curse but was submitted to God's Will even if it include the curse. But anyways the thing, the God of Israel,to whom Jesus Christ prayed the prayers that He did never gave any decree against such. So why are you dead set on making an issue of something that God Himself never said to be an issue? Please move on! |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Explore2xmore: 11:29pm On May 29 |
Ohyoudidnt: Indeed it is tiresome discussing with these folk especially those that claim an awareness beyond religion. You are very much correct as prayer is a powerful tool for expressing our grievances and frustrations to a higher power. When we turn to prayer as a complaint, we are acknowledging our feelings of discontent and seeking comfort and resolution from the divine. Most Christians view Jesus's crucifixion as the ultimate sacrifice for humanity. More so Hebrew 7:27 reads unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Yet Jesus said in Matthew 26:39...... Father, if it’s possible, let this cup ⌞of suffering⌟ be taken away from me. But let your will be done rather than mine. Did Jesus not know this was how it will play out? Did the script authors feel they can turn on and off his willingness without care? In any case the OP is simply asking if Jesus Wanted To Be Crucified, And Why? It seems this will be in obedience to God the father who is also Jesus as said by their majority. 1 Like |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Ohyoudidnt: 8:18pm On May 30 |
Explore2xmore: Very reasonable points to question understanding that in the Gospel of Matthew 26:39, Jesus prays to God in the Garden of Gethsemane before his crucifixion, saying, “Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not as I will, but as you will.” This prayer reflects Jesus’ at a time of anguish and reluctance towards the suffering he was about to endure on the cross. The phrase “let this cup pass from me” indicates Jesus’ desire for an alternative to the impending crucifixion, showing his humanity and vulnerability. Is your point questioning a divine and human Jesus wishing for different unlike the fully human Abraham and Ishmael who didn't seek a change but willfully proceeded and were found worthy to having a substitute. Are we reviewing if Jesus prayer was answered or not and why? |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Expanse2020(m): 3:29pm On Jun 09 |
Kobojunkie:So Jesus is no more God Abi Jesus is God if Jesus is God he is also God of Israel Àbí you are not in 3 in 1 again |
Re: Did Jesus Want To Be Crucified, And Why? by Davidobi255(m): 3:48pm On Jun 09 |
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