Salaam

Today, Friday, is 7th of Muharram, one of the 4 sacred months

Fasting is prescribed on the 9th and 10th of Muharram ie Sunday and Monday

‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fasted on the day of ‘Ashoora and told the people to fast, they said, “O Messenger of Allaah, this is a day that is venerated by the Jews and Christians.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Next year, if Allaah wills, we will fast on the ninth day.” But by the time the following year came, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had passed away. (Muslim)

Please only fasting is prescribed. No wailing, mourning, celebration, etc

And Allah knows best

Not permitted to fast on the 10th day of Muharram:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-811368.0.html#msg9632800

^^^
In other words, YOU have abrogated these authentic hadeeth (May Allah save us from the deeds of shaytan)

Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fasted on the day of ‘Ashoora and told the people to fast, they said, “O Messenger of Allaah, this is a day that is venerated by the Jews and Christians.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Next year, if Allaah wills, we will fast on the ninth day.” But by the time the following year came, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had passed away. (Muslim)


The Prophet (PBUH) said: “Fasting the day of ‘Arafah I hope Allaah will expiate thereby for the year before it and the year after it, and fasting the day of ‘Ashoora’ I hope Allaah will expiate thereby for the year that came before it.” (Muslim)

Ibn ‘Abbaas (RA) said: I never saw the Prophet (PBUH) so keen to make sure he fasted any day and preferring it over another except this day, the day of ‘Ashoora’, and this month – meaning Ramadaan. (Bukhari)

Ibn ‘Abbaas (RA) said: The Prophet (PBUH) came to Madeenah and saw the Jews fasting on the day of ‘Ashoora’. He said, “What is this?” They said, “This is a good day, this is the day when Allaah saved the Children of Israel from their enemy and Moosa fasted on this day.” He said, “We are closer to Moosa than you.” So he fasted on this day and told the people to fast. (Bukari)


May Allah save us from acts of Kuffr from people who claim to be muslims

Dear Brothers and Sisters, kindly ignore the attempt by Shias to legislate out the authentic and substitute them with bid'ah
We all know that what was not part of the deen at the time of the Prophet cannot be part of it now
Please endeavour to fast on Sunday and Monday and let us pray that Allah should save us from misguidance and correct those who are misguided

It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error. 33: 36

It is not permitted to self flagelate, wail, mourn, celebrate on the day of Ashoora. All of those are bid'ah
As muslims, our actions are not tied to events relating to death, birth etc of ANYONE, including the Prophet.
BTW, Ali (RA), the 4th Caliph who was evidently better than his sons, was also murdered. This was on a Friday, after Fajr prayer as he was leaving the mosque. No celebration is tied to this

‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”  (Bukhari and Muslim)

Allah knows best

Salaam

BetaThings:

^^^
In other words, YOU have abrogated these authentic hadeeth (May Allah save us from the deeds of shaytan)

Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fasted on the day of ‘Ashoora and told the people to fast, they said, “O Messenger of Allaah, this is a day that is venerated by the Jews and Christians.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Next year, if Allaah wills, we will fast on the ninth day.” But by the time the following year came, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had passed away. (Muslim)


The Prophet (PBUH) said: “Fasting the day of ‘Arafah I hope Allaah will expiate thereby for the year before it and the year after it, and fasting the day of ‘Ashoora’ I hope Allaah will expiate thereby for the year that came before it.” (Muslim)

Ibn ‘Abbaas (RA) said: I never saw the Prophet (PBUH) so keen to make sure he fasted any day and preferring it over another except this day, the day of ‘Ashoora’, and this month – meaning Ramadaan. (Bukhari)

Ibn ‘Abbaas (RA) said: The Prophet (PBUH) came to Madeenah and saw the Jews fasting on the day of ‘Ashoora’. He said, “What is this?” They said, “This is a good day, this is the day when Allaah saved the Children of Israel from their enemy and Moosa fasted on this day.” He said, “We are closer to Moosa than you.” So he fasted on this day and told the people to fast. (Bukari)


May Allah save us from acts of Kuffr from people who claim to be muslims

Dear Brothers and Sisters, kindly ignore the attempt by Shias to legislate out the authentic and substitute them with bid'ah
We all know that what was not part of the deen at the time of the Prophet cannot be part of it now
Please endeavour to fast on Sunday and Monday and let us pray that Allah should save us from misguidance and correct those who are misguided

It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error. 33: 36

It is not permitted to self flagelate, wail, mourn, celebrate on the day of Ashoora. All of those are bid'ah
As muslims, our actions are not tied to events relating to death, birth etc of ANYONE, including the Prophet.
BTW, Ali (RA), the 4th Caliph who was evidently better than his sons, was also murdered. This was on a Friday, after Fajr prayer as he was leaving the mosque. No celebration is tied to this

‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “He is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garment, or cries with the cry of the Jaahiliyyah.”  (Bukhari and Muslim)

Allah knows best

Salaam

ordinary calculation would show you that first of all that the Prophet (sa) in the first year of hijra arrived Medina after the 10th day of Muharram.so how could he have ordered the people to fast on the 10th day while that day has passed based on the stories you are telling us that he met the jews fasting on that day.

in the second year of hijrah,again calculation would do the magic to show you that the 10th day of Muharram did not coincide with the day of fast of the jews known as YOM KIPPUR (or "feast of the passover".that is the day jews fast.so how could the Prophet (sa) have met jews fasting in Medinah after his migration from Makkah,when there was no jewish fasting happening on the 10th of Muharram coinciding with their fasting day?

i presented a link providing a detailed work on the lie that we should fast on the 10th day of Muharram.fasting on the 10th day is not permitted.you can only fast before or after the 10th of Muharram.

further on,if you read the research works in the links i presented,you will see that all of these hadiths giving the 10th of Muharram other meanings have only one purpose: to deliberately conceal the significance of the 10th day of Muharram that has to do with the tragedy of Karbala and the matyrdom of Imam Hussain (as).this is part of concerted effort by the banu umayyah [/b]to make muslims [b]forget by all means possible the commemoration of Imam Hussain's (as) martyrdom and the tragedy of Karbala.there are more stories other than the so called recommended fast.some people even celebrate on the 10th day of Muharram also known as the Day of Ashura which commemorates the saddest day in Islamic history.this is the political legacy of the banu ummayya.all these hadiths you find in your bukhari and whatever book are all poor fabrications prompted by ummayyad caliphate to padlock your brain and take you away from Imam Hussain (as) and knowing the truth of what happened at Karbala.

also we do commemorate the death of the Prophet (sa) and all the Imams,including the martyrdom of Imam Ali (as) you raised.here is evidence:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-729108.0.html

however th Day of Ashura on the 10th Day of Muharram has a greater significance than simply commemorating death anniversary.the significance of Ashura and the tragedy of Karbala has to do with the very existence of and foundations Islam rests on.i would not blame you anyways for not knowing these things because the plot of the banu umayya is working on you.

this thread is better placed in the Islam for Muslim section than the religion section.i think a mod should move it to the Islam section because the OP made a mistake by starting it here.

We feel sad on the Day of Ashura and the tragedy of Karbala because the Prophet (sa) himself shed tears about it.shedding tears about it is therefore a prophetic sunnah.

[b]The Prophet Muhammad(s) said: ‘An angel that has never visited me before, entered my house today and said to me: ‘This son of yours (Hussain)  will be killed. If you wish, I can give you some soil from the earth wherein he shall die’. The Prophet (s) then said: ‘The angel brought to me soil that was red’’. Fadhail Sahaba by Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, volume 2 page 965 Hadith 1357:

In Musnad Abi Ya’la Al-Musili, Volume 1 page 298 Hadith 363:
Abdullah ibn Naji narrated from his father who said: ‘I went with Ali, they approached Nainawa as they were going to the battle of Siffeen then Ali called out and said: ‘O Aba Abdullah (epithet of Imam Hussain), have patience, O Aba Abdullah have patience on the bank of the Euphrates’. I asked: ‘What do you mean by Aba Abdullah’? Ali replied: ‘One day I went into the room of the Prophet (s) whilst his (s) eyes were gushing with tears, I therefore asked of him: ‘O Prophet (s), has someone angered you? What makes your eyes gush with tears?’ He (s) replied: ‘Gabriel has just left me; he (Gabriel) told me that Hussain will be killed on the banks of the Euphrates river. Gabriel then said to him (s): ‘Shall I let you smell its soil (wherein Hussain will be killed)? I said: ‘Yes’. So Gabriel extended his hand and presented a handful of the soil and gave it to me, I was then unable to prevent my eyes from gushing into tears’’’.

Hussain Asad Salim said:
‘The chain is Hasan’. Haythmani has recorded it in Majma al-Zawaid. Ahmed Ibn Hanbal also has narrated it as did Abu Ya’la and Bazzar and Tabrani and the narrators are Thiqaat (trustworthy).[/b]

What calculation?

I am not interested in reading heresy. I just don't have that time

When the Prophet says something, I obey. There is no choice for a muslim

I don't play by the banks of River Kufr

When there are CLEAR DIRECTIVES attributed to the Prophet (in the 2 Sahih books), the time for pleading, stories etc are over

It is time for OBEDIENCE

Amantu billahi wa rasulihi
Raditu Billahi Rabban wabil Islami Dinan wabi Muhammadin (SAW) Nabiyyan wa Rasulan

BetaThings:

What calculation?

I am not interested in reading heresy. I just don't have that time

When the Prophet says something, I obey. There is no choice for a muslim

I don't play by the banks of River Kufr

When there are CLEAR DIRECTIVES attributed to the Prophet (in the 2 Sahih books), the time for pleading, stories etc are over

It is time for OBEDIENCE

Amantu billahi wa rasulihi
Raditu Billahi Rabban wabil Islami Dinan wabi Muhammadin (SAW) Nabiyyan wa Rasulan

but the Prophet (sa) did not make those statements.

calculation:calendar calculation comparing the dates of the jewish calendar to that of the islamic/arabian calendars show that no jewish fast coincide with Ashura.how can calculation be heresy? dont be too blinded.i admire your love for Islam.but you are going off-track.

So I can no longer rely on Ahadeeth in Muslim and Bukhari?
And your own conjectures and thinking now supercede them
Sorry, Sir
I don't need you to do the takhreej of ahadeeth for me

I typically don't discuss my deen with people who
- are not muslims or
- call themselves muslims but clearly rely on their intellect for "guidance"!

Pleasant day.
To you your aqeeda, and to me my aqeeda of Ahlu Sunnah, wal Jammah

BetaThings:

So I can no longer rely on Ahadeeth in Muslim and Bukhari?

I did not say that.but you don’t have to accept everything in them as 100% authentic.there are true and false hadiths in all compilations.that is the truth.only the Quran is 100%.

And your own conjectures and thinking now supercede them
Sorry, Sir
I don't need you to do the takhreej of ahadeeth for me

I am not doing any “takhreej”.use your head.it is based on fact that the alleged jewish fast and the 10th day of Muharram never coincided.so who is lying?

You can read these:
'Ashura - Misrepresentations and Distortions:
http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/ashura/

”THE FAST OF ASHURA”:
http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/default.asp?url=fastofashura.htm

Besides,we find this hadiths in the same “SAHIH BUKHARI” telling us that the Prophet (sa) alledgedly ordered certain acts in order for the Muslims to “look different “ from the Jews and Christians.is it then not a contradiction for you to tell us that the Prophet (sa) asked us to fast on the 10th of Muharram because he saw the jews fasting?isn’t that really funny?at one point we should be different and at another point we are carrying recommend acts which we allegedly copied from the jews?

Narrated Abu Huraira:  "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Jews and the Christians do not dye (their grey hair), so you shall do the opposite of what they do (i.e. dye your grey hair and beards).'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 668)"   

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:  "Allah's Apostle said, 'Cut the moustaches short and leave the beard (as it is).'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Dress, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 781)"

Narrated Nafi': "Ibn Umar said, The Prophet said, 'Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short.' Whenever Ibn 'Umar performed the Hajj or 'Umra, he used to hold his beard with his hand and cut whatever moustaches. Ibn Umar used to cut his moustache so short that the whiteness of his skin (above the upper lip) was visible, and he used to cut (the hair) between his moustaches and his beard. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Dress, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 780)"


And let me quote for you the most ridiculous hadith which is found in “sahih bukhari”:
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:Narrated ‘Amru bin Maimun: "During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal intimate intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them."

I typically don't discuss my deen with people who
- are not muslims or
- call themselves muslims but clearly rely on their intellect for "guidance"!

Pleasant day.
To you your aqeeda, and to me my aqeeda of Ahlu Sunnah, wal Jammah

It is not a crime to sound excited once in a while!

LagosShia:

but the Prophet (sa) did not make those statements.

calculation:calendar calculation comparing the dates of the jewish calendar to that of the islamic/arabian calendars show that no jewish fast coincide with Ashura.how can calculation be heresy? dont be too blinded.i admire your love for Islam.but you are going off-track.

LagosShia:

I did not say that.but you don’t have to accept everything in them as 100% authentic.there are true and false hadiths in all compilations.that is the truth.only the Quran is 100%.
I am not doing any “takhreej”.use your head.it is based on fact that the alleged jewish fast and the 10th day of Muharram never coincided.so who is lying?

Arrogance is one of the pillars of kufr. I hope you remember that.
BTW is Usool-al-Kaafi is what I should be reading
And the ahadeeth of the infallible imaams
Right?
Some people follow their desire in matters of deen, surely
I hope you are talking about the Qur'an of 114 chapters that I am holding

BetaThings:

Arrogance is one of the pillars of kufr. I hope you remember that.

i hope you knew that when you were lecturing me not to do "takhreej" for you.

BTW is Usool-al-Kaafi is what I should be reading

even our hadiths books like Usul-al-kafi and biharul-anwar are not 100%.

And the ahadeeth of the infallible imaams
Right?
Some people follow their desire in matters of deen, surely

the Prophet (sa) said we should follow his sunnah and the sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs who are the 12 Imams (as).he also said in the "hadith of the two weight things things" that we should abide by the Quran and the itrah (progeny) who are his Ahlul-Bayt (as).so we now know who is following his desires and making kings out of some men of the past who were ordinary and some infamous.

I hope you are talking about the Qur'an of 114 chapters that I am holding

except if you have another different from ours!

BetaThings:

So I can no longer rely on Ahadeeth in Muslim and Bukhari?
And your own conjectures and thinking now supercede them
Sorry, Sir
I don't need you to do the takhreej of ahadeeth for me

LagosShia:

I did not say that.but you don’t have to accept everything in them as 100% authentic.there are true and false hadiths in all compilations.that is the truth.only the Quran is 100%.
I am not doing any “takhreej”.use your head.it is based on fact that the alleged jewish fast and the 10th day of Muharram never coincided.so who is lying?

You can read these:
'Ashura - Misrepresentations and Distortions:
http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/ashura/

”THE FAST OF ASHURA”:
http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/default.asp?url=fastofashura.htm

[/i]
And let me quote for you the most ridiculous hadith which is found in “sahih bukhari”:

It is not a crime to sound excited once in a while!

LagosShia:

i hope you knew that when you were lecturing me not to do "takhreej" for you.

One page, within 24 hours and matters are being twisted
I have been told I don't use my head, I am blinded, and excitable. Reading assignments have been given to me
Sahih Bukhari have been faulted
But I only say that I don't need a particular person to do takreej for me

And I am told I have been lecturing! Where, when, how?

If we can have this type of bare-faced lying in the face of clear evidence I wonder what would happen in other instances 

LagosShia:

i hope you knew that when you were lecturing me not to do "takhreej" for you.

even our hadiths books like Usul-al-kafi and biharul-anwar are not 100%.
the Prophet (sa) said we should follow his sunnah and the sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs who are the 12 Imams (as).he also said in the "hadith of the two weight things things" that we should abide by the Quran and the itrah (progeny) who are his Ahlul-Bayt (as).so we now know who is following his desires and making kings out of some men of the past who were ordinary and some infamous.

except if you have another different from ours!

Which Imams?  There is a new meaning of "rightly". I can only see misguidance

I don't believe a single word in your hadith books
I have seen shias refuse to do sujood without those pebbles and, I have held those pebbles (not just see)


My post was not directed at you
On the 10th of Muharram, let the some shias wail and mourn while others beat drums and celebrate for the same event
They are free to do whatever they like and believe whatever
To you your aqeeda, to me mine of Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jammah

BetaThings:


One page, within 24 hours and matters are being twisted
I have been told I don't use my head, I am blinded, and excitable. Reading assignments have been given to me
Sahih Bukhari have been faulted
But I only say that I don't need a particular person to do takreej for me

And I am told I have been lecturing! Where, when, how?

If we can have this type of bare-faced lying in the face of clear evidence I wonder what would happen in other instances

ok.if you pleases you call me a "liar".no problem.my aim is to help the truth come out.

Which Imams? There is a new meaning of "rightly". I can only see misguidance

the Prophet said we should follow his sunnah and that of his rightly guided caliphs.he also said we should abide by the Quran and his itrah (progeny) who are his Ahlul-Bayt (as).see hadith of the two weighty things.

you who call yourselves "ahlussunnah" have picked out four among the sahaba to be your "rightly guided caliph".to us the rightly guided caliphs are the 12 Imams (as) of the Ahlul-Bayt (as).

I don't believe a single word in your hadith books

you dont have to.we just need of you to believe your own hadith books.there is not one deed we perform or believe in that is not supported in your books however you try to conceal it or turn a blind eye to it.

I have seen shias refuse to do sujood without those pebbles and, I have held those pebbles (not just see)

those are not "pebbles".they are "turbah" or "soil.it is sunnah to pray on earth.you can see here for evidence from your highly esteemed bukhari:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-801527.160.html#msg9626194

My post was not directed at you
On the 10th of Muharram, let the some shias wail and mourn while others beat drums and celebrate for the same event
They are free to do whatever they like and believe whatever
To you your aqeeda, to me mine of Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jammah

the choice is yours.

Enters thread,  sees fascinating debate but yawns out of boredom.  People should hold-on to things that are important to their spiritual development and not occupy themselves with historical bitterness.

@Beta

I am on my second day of fasting, may Allah reward you for disseminating true information. amin

Amazing how people argue whether the Bible is correct or not and at the same time add hadith that do not exist

The rightly-guided worshipers of Allah who call on him in fear and hope and to whom the entire earth has been approved as place of worship say

Labaayk, Allahuma, Labaayk 

That is tawheed

BetaThings:

The rightly-guided worshipers of Allah say

Labaayk, Allahuma, Labaayk 

That is tawheed

your head is screwed!

your mouth stinks of ignorance!!

please just keep quiet if you dont understand some things.

^^^^
Extremism in everything is bad. It is particularly dangerous in religious matters
Arrogance and anger are 2 pillars of kuffr
BTW, one of the signs of hypocrisy is lying

BetaThings:

^^^^
Extremism in everything is bad. It is particularly dangerous in religious matters
Arrogance and anger are 2 pillars of kuffr
BTW, one of the signs of hypocrisy is lying

when you find out the difference between us saying :"Labbayka Allahumma Labbayk" and "Labbayka Ya Hussain",then you can feel free to preach whatever you like.

if only the ignorant ones would shut up their mouths,they would save us lots of distress and disagreements.must you open your mouth on what you got no idea?

you are talking about "rightly guided worshippers" and "tawheed".do you even have the slightest idea what those two terms mean?or do you think you are more "rightly guided than others"?you're an empty barrel.

ive not displayed such annoyance before.but your ignorance you want to impose on others as knowledge is sickening.

LagosShia:

when you find out the difference between us saying :"Labbayka Allahumma Labbayk" and "Labbayka Ya Hussain",then you can feel free to preach whatever you like.

if only the ignorant ones would shut up their mouths,they would save us lots of distress and disagreements.must you open your mouth on what you got no idea?

you are talking about "rightly guided worshippers" and "tawheed".do you even have the slightest idea what those two terms mean?or do you think you are more "rightly guided than others"?you're an empty barrel.

ive not displayed such annoyance before.but your ignorance you want to impose on others as knowledge is sickening.

We are not taught to curse. But it is even an article of faith for some people
Hence abusing people is de rigueur. The excuse of "rare" annoyance holds no water
The Prophet (PBUH) cautions against arrogance. We abide by it. People who want to follow their desires are free
You can follow all of this with your Dua-e-Sanam

I know that some underaged children who are still under parental guidance do not qualify as righly-guided, let alone "infallible", an attribute that belongs only Allah

Calling on anyone who is not present is shirk. Period. A human being not present cannot help anyone

vedaxcool:

@Beta

I am on my second day of fasting, may Allah reward you for disseminating true information. amin

Amin

And may Allah accept it from us all.
May Allah keep us FIRMLY on the right path and
Save us from misguidance

Peace Be Upon Hussain,and Upon Ali Ibn al-Hussain,and Upon the Children of Hussain and Upon the Companions of Hussain!

ASSALAMU ALAL HUSSAIN WA ALA ALI IBNIL HUSSAIN WA ALA AWLADIL HUSSAIN WA ALA ASHABIL HUSSAIN!

BetaThings:

We are not taught to curse. But it is even an article of faith for some people

that is because you are misguided and you do not follow the religion of Allah rightly or if at all.you do not even know the meaning of the word "la'na" which is translated as "curse" in english.also you confuse it with insult and vulgar expression."la'na" is an act of disassociation from the enemies of Allah and opposition to satanic influences and men of evil.

thus Allah (swt) Himself has cursed the ones worthy of being cursed in the Holy Quran.

my advice to you is this:when you do not know something and have no idea about it,it best for you to find out about that thing than for you to make hasty conclusions based on either preconceived ideas,prejudice,bias,hate,ignorance,e.t.c.

Hence abusing people is de rigueur. The excuse of "rare" annoyance holds no water

brother i am not here to impress you or seek your pleasure or forgiveness.

let me tell you one more time that from what you have demonstrated you are either ignorant or prone to ignorance and anti-knowledge.your head is screwed tightly!

The Prophet (PBUH) cautions against arrogance. We abide by it. People who want to follow their desires are free

Warning against arrogance because someone else is discussing with you based on what he believes is the truth.yet you are also lecturing us and hinting at other being arrogant and “following their desires”.is that the humility you practice?

Infact,whatever the case I don’t enter into “holier than thou” contests.

You can follow all of this with your Dua-e-Sanam

It is called “Dua Sanamay Quraysh”;not “due-e-sanam”.

It is a supplication by Imam Ali (as) against the “two idols of Quraysh”:abu bakr and umar!

I know that some underaged children who are still under parental guidance do not qualify as righly-guided, let alone "infallible", an attribute that belongs only Allah

That is humility indeed!

Calling on anyone who is not present is shirk. Period. A human being not present cannot help anyone

A human who is very dear to Allah can act as an intercessor and for that person’s sake and just mentioning his name,Allah can help us for his sake.Allah truly hears!

"O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek an intercession (wasilah) unto Him, "
(Holy Qur'an 5:35)

", And they do not intercede (tawassul) except for him whom He approve, " (21:28)

You can read aout it already discussed in another thread by brother “Zhul-Fiqar”
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-801527.160.html#msg9625857
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-801527.160.html#msg9626194

Allah (swt) in his pure book sends curses on various types of people, for example in Surah Baqarah verse 161 we read:

“Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting, – on them is Allah’s curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind”

In Surah Aal-e-Imran verse 61 we read:

“If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge hath come to thee, say: “Come! Let us gather together, – our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!”

It is stated in Surah Hud verse 18:

Who doth more wrong than those who invent a life against Allah? They will be turned back to the presence of their Lord, and the witnesses will say, “These are the ones who lied against their Lord! Behold! The Curse of Allah is on those who do wrong!

And Surah Hud verses 59-60:

Such were the ‘Ad People: they rejected the Signs of their Lord and Cherisher; disobeyed His messengers; And followed the command of every powerful, obstinate transgressor.
And they were pursued by a Curse in this life, – and on the Day of Judgment. Ah! Behold! For the ‘Ad rejected their Lord and Cherisher! Ah! Behold! Removed (from sight) were ‘Ad the people of Hud!

Surah Maida verse 78:

Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.

These verses prove that it is the Sunnah of Allah (swt) and his prophets (peace be upon all of them) to curse rejecters. Can there be a greater rejecter that Yazeed who rejected the Ahl’ul bayt (as), the Qur’an stipulates love for them to be a part of Deen; he killed them and openly rejected the Prophethood of Rasulullah (s)?

Allah sends curses. That is correct. Not a group of people arrogating to themselves the right to legislate on the deen
That is even the beginning of the evil of takfeer

Anyway, Allah told Abu Lahab he will end up in hellfire
Can you say the same today?

Allah has promised to punish by hellfire
Can you set a human being ablaze

When a jew cursed the Prophet (PBUH) and Aisha (RA) retaliated, did he not caution her?

All the instances you quoted are of Allah and His Prophets. And we know the Prophets received inspirations. Even then some of the Prophets erred in certain instances
But for ordinary human beings, if you are to curse, you must do that to those Allah have permitted to be cursed

No sahaba should be criticised based on the clear instruction of the Prophet
If the later generations do deeds as great as mount uhud, they will still lag behind the sahabas

LagosShia:

Peace Be Upon Hussain,and Upon Ali Ibn al-Hussain,and Upon the Children of Hussain and Upon the Companions of Hussain!

ASSALAMU ALAL HUSSAIN WA ALA ALI IBNIL HUSSAIN WA ALA AWLADIL HUSSAIN WA ALA ASHABIL HUSSAIN!that is because you are misguided and you do not follow the religion of Allah rightly or if at all.you do not even know the meaning of the word "la'na" which is translated as "curse" in english.also you confuse it with insult and vulgar expression."la'na" is an act of disassociation from the enemies of Allah and opposition to satanic influences and men of evil.

Peace be upon ALL muslims, dead and alive!
I have little knowledge, I admit. But on this matter, I cans see misguidance and shirk VERY CLEARLY
You cannot invoke a dead human being
You cannot curse any of the sahabas

LagosShia:


my advice to you is this:when you do not know something and have no idea about it,it best for you to find out about that thing than for you to make hasty conclusions based on either preconceived ideas,prejudice,bias,hate,ignorance,e.t.c.

Hasty? You are cursing sahabas, abrogating authetic ahadeeth, legislating shrik and you say I am hasty
The people who mocked Allah and were pronounced kuffars, how long did it take?
I cannot see the benefit of your advice except to call me to bid'ah and to follow my desires
My bias and preconceived ideas are that we should obey Allah and His Messnegers
The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said don't curse sahabas
and don't do Tawassul through the dead people
Of course, Allah has said nobody is like Him
So we don't call anyone, including the Prophet (PBUH), infallible. Let alone some boys who were still under parental tutelage
That is shirk

LagosShia:

brother i am not here to impress you or seek your pleasure or forgiveness.

let me tell you one more time that from what you have demonstrated you are either ignorant or prone to ignorance and anti-knowledge.your head is screwed tightly!Warning against arrogance because someone else is discussing with you based on what he believes is the truth.yet you are also lecturing us and hinting at other being arrogant and “following their desires”.is that the humility you practice?

It will be self indulgence to expect somebody who curses sahabas, make takfeer of rightly guided caliphs to apologise to me
Who am I? A nobody really
I just mentioned it because you said you had never been so annoyed. I cannot see how what I have written here would equate to what led you to routinely curse rightly guided people and speak ill of the mother of the believers
Is it really so difficult for you to see that you are the one giving homework and referring to your previous tomes on these issues
You have taken on the position of the lecturer here and if you cannot see that, it is sad

BTW if you want to spend your time abusing me, please suit yourself. It does not hurt me in anyway
It only makes what people have to read longer without adding any value to the point you are trying to make

LagosShia:


It is called “Dua Sanamay Quraysh”;not “due-e-sanam”.

It is a supplication by Imam Ali (as) against the “two idols of Quraysh”:abu bakr and umar!
That is humility indeed!

The Sahaba Ali (RA) never cursed Umar (RA) or Abu Bakr (RA)
Infact Ali (RA) was an in-law to Umar (RA)

On the issue of humility, there is no disagreement over the need to call people who are doing shirk. Telling me that some imam is infallible is misguidance and shirk! No humility required in getting the message across
No one deserves to die with that aqeeda in his mind. Allah is merciful and He will accept repentance at anytime before death

I saw people flogging them again on Monday. Why? Some were in a joyous mood in other places. Why?
How do you commemorate the death of Ali (RA), the parent of the people you have set Ashoora aside for?

Of course, Ahlu Sunnah just fast on the day of Ashoora as directed by the best of mankind, Muhammad (PBUH)

LagosShia:


You can read aout it already discussed in another thread by brother “Zhul-Fiqar”
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-801527.160.html#msg9625857
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-801527.160.html#msg9626194

Why do you persist in referring people to your wrong notions rather than published materials which a lot of people (even outside NL) have had the opportunity of reading and commenting upon

LagosShia:


A human who is very dear to Allah can act as an intercessor and for that person’s sake and just mentioning his name,Allah can help us for his sake.Allah truly hears!

"O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek an intercession (wasilah) unto Him, "
(Holy Qur'an 5:35)

", And they do not intercede (tawassul) except for him whom He approve, " (21:28)

A human being, WHO IS ALIVE, can act as intercessor by praying for others. A dead person has ceased to be an intercessor
This world is for deeds. No accounting is done here
The hereafter is for accounting. No deed is done there
Even the Prophet's intercession ceased upon his death. He will only resume when everyone is resurrected on the day of Kiyama


Proper Tawassul is by 3 methods
1. Names and attributes of Allah. Allah directed us to call on Him by the most beautiful names

2. Righteous deeds. This is demonstrated by the 3 people who were trapped in the cave

3. By the dua of a righteous person. The woman who had epilepsy who became uncovered when stricken approached the Prophet (PBUH) to pray for her for this. A bedouin asked the Prophet (PBUH) to pray for rain when the Prophet was alive. Upon his death, they did not seek intercession through him again. Indeed they went to Abbas ibn al-Muttalib for to help them pray for rain. Umar (RA) specifically said "We USED to go to our Prophet (PBUH) and ask him to supplicate for us,,,,and now that he (PBUH) has passed on,,,,,,we go to the uncle of our Prophet (PBUH),,,,,,,," Bukhari

BTW, if we could do tawwasul through the dead, it does not make sense to do it through anyone beside the Prophet, the perfect example, the best of mankind

To reiterate, the dead cannot be a means of tawassul



And Allah knows best


Again, the dead cannot help the living

BetaThings:

Peace be upon ALL muslims, dead and alive!
I have little knowledge, I admit. But on this matter, I cans see misguidance and shirk VERY CLEARLY
You cannot invoke a dead human being
You cannot curse any of the sahabas

on what basis did you make your conclusions if according to you you have little knowledge? does that little knowledge enable you to pass fatwas? beware that accusing others (muslims) of shirk is in itself a very great sin.i would advice you to seek forgiveness from Allah.

you obviously have the wrong idea about "tawassul".when we use "tawassul" we do not "invoke" the dead."invoking the dead" is the wrong idea and interpretation you ascribe to tawassul.i would simply advice you to read further on the matter.here is a well grounded comparative work on tawassul which can give you insight into the different views on it:

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/tawassul/en/index.php

as for the word "sahaba",what meaning do we identify with the word "sahaba"? who is a "sahaba". you need to stop spreading the open cheque of "cursing sahaba".we do not curse the sahaba.there are men and women worthy of praise among the sahaba we SHIA respect and honor.you simply should recognize the fact that being a sahaba is not a sign of infallibility or holiness.if there were men among the sahaba who cause harm to islam and the muslims,then there is indeed nothing wrong in exposing their deeds and disassociating ourselves from them.i think you also have the wrong idea about "cursing".

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are
     strong against the unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each
     other.  Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer),
     seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure.  On their faces are
     their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration.  This is their
     similitude in the Taurat (Torah); And their similitude in the Gospel
     is: Like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it
     then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the
     sowers with wonder and delight.  As a result, it fills the Unbelievers
     with rage at them.  [size=14pt]Allah has promised those among them who believe
     and do righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward. [/size][48:29]"


SO FROM THE ABOVE VERSE,WE SEE THAT ALLAH PROMISED THOSE AMONG THEM WHO WERE BELIEVERS.THIS SHOWS AMONG THEM WERE ALSO HYPOCRITES AND DISBELIEVERS.ALSO,THERE IS NO GUARANTY THAT A HUMAN BEING CANNOT GO ASTRAY.SO WHY IS IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR A COMPANION TO CHANGE?EVEN THE PROPHET AS RECORDED IN SAHIH BUKHARI SAW THAT COMING!


Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.578
Narrated 'Abdullah:

     The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount." 'Abdullah
     added: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount, and
     some of you will be brought in front of me till I will see them and
     then they will be taken away from me and I will say, 'O Lord, my
     companions!' It will be said, 'You do not know what they did after you
     had left.'

Hasty? You are cursing sahabas, abrogating authetic ahadeeth, legislating shrik and you say I am hasty
The people who mocked Allah and were pronounced kuffars, how long did it take?
I cannot see the benefit of your advice except to call me to bid'ah and to follow my desires
My bias and preconceived ideas are that we should obey Allah and His Messnegers
The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said don't curse sahabas
and don't do Tawassul through the dead people
Of course, Allah has said nobody is like Him
So we don't call anyone, including the Prophet (PBUH), infallible. Let alone some boys who were still under parental tutelage
That is shirk

you keep repeating:"some boys who were still under parental tutelage".who are you refering to exactly?

do you know the meaning of "infallibility"? are you also denying that the Prophet Muhammad (sa) is infallible? at least i know that sunnis dont deny that.

i have told you we do not "curse sahaba".we curse wrong doers and evil persons as Allah Himself does in the Quran be they from among the sahaba or anyone else.if you tell me how we know who to curse and disassociate ourselves from,then how do you discriminate between haq (truth) and batil (falsehood)? how do you enjoin good and oppose evil as the Quran tells us to do?and there is a difference between "cursing" and "insulting".i also provided a hadith (see above) where the Prophet (sa) himself informed us that among the sahaba there would be men who would be taken away from him to the hell fire!

It will be self indulgence to expect somebody who curses sahabas, make takfeer of rightly guided caliphs to apologise to me
Who am I? A nobody really

I just mentioned it because you said you had never been so annoyed. I cannot see how what I have written here would equate to what led you to routinely curse rightly guided people and speak ill of the mother of the believers
Is it really so difficult for you to see that you are the one giving homework and referring to your previous tomes on these issues
You have taken on the position of the lecturer here and if you cannot see that, it is sad

BTW if you want to spend your time abusing me, please suit yourself. It does not hurt me in anyway
It only makes what people have to read longer without adding any value to the point you are trying to make

i am not interested in holding personal discussions about you.i am not in this forum to even abuse anyone.

who are the rightly guided caliphs? are they four in number or are they twelve in number? how many caliphs did the Prophet (sa) say there would be after him? who associated four men with the term "rightly guided caliph" and why?

The Sahaba Ali (RA) never cursed Umar (RA) or Abu Bakr (RA)
Infact Ali (RA) was an in-law to Umar (RA)

On the issue of humility, there is no disagreement over the need to call people who are doing shirk. Telling me that some imam is infallible is misguidance and shirk! No humility required in getting the message across
No one deserves to die with that aqeeda in his mind. Allah is merciful and He will accept repentance at anytime before death

I saw people flogging them again on Monday. Why? Some were in a joyous mood in other places. Why?
How do you commemorate the death of Ali (RA), the parent of the people you have set Ashoora aside for?

Of course, Ahlu Sunnah just fast on the day of Ashoora as directed by the best of mankind, Muhammad (PBUH)

brother,you are really in an awkward state of mental confusion on islamic matters.

firstly let me tell you that blood relation is to no avail when it comes to knowing truth and falsehood.at least that is the perspective of the Quran.

infallibility is a state of knowledge bestowed by Allah on His chosen servants enabling them to discriminate between goodness and evil and the spirit of Allah which manifests in piety (tawqa) and devotion to Allah makes those chosen servants of Allah to guard themselves against committing sin.infallibility is a state whereby a Prophet or the divinely appointed successor in the title of a divinely appointed imam does not commit sin and break the commandments of Allah they are expected to uphold.for example,we see in the bible that prophets are said to have committed in.cest,adultery, and ra.pe.in Islam these actions speak of hypocrisy.the chosen servants of Allah cannot do such acts and still claim to be close to Allah and those who propagate and follow the commandments of Allah.that is all about infallibility.how you tied is to shirk is beyond my knowledge.

the so called "Ahlus Sunna" do not fast on Ashura because the best of mankind i.e. the Prophet Muhammad (sa) ordered them to.they fast in upholding the legacy of the banu umayya who wanted to conceal the significance of Ashura and what it stands for in Islam.

we do also commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Ali (as) and the death of the Prophet Muhammad (sa).but the day of Ashura based on the words of the Prophet Muhammad (sa) himself is a great day that left an indelible mark on Islam and the muslims.the significance of Ashura is beyond the "death of Hussain (as) who was martyred on that day.the significance of Ashura is on what Islam itself rests presently and survived from the distortions,misguidance and deceit of the banu umayya led by Yazid that Hussain (as) stood against.the principles of Ashura are islamic principles which Imam Hussain (as) stood for because according to Imam Hussain (as) he wanted to reform the ummah of his grandfather,the Prophet of Allah,Muhammad (sa).he also wanted to stand against oppression,injustice and terror.you can see that the significance of Ashura climax with the martyrdom of Hussain (as).but the lessons we can learn from it are by far more than the sentence:"Hussain was martyred on Ashura so the Shia mourn".this Ashura event has to do with reviving Islam.again i would advice you from my heart and sincerely and mercifully as a muslim brother who feels love and closeness to you for the sake of LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMAD RASULULLAH,to calm down and seat down and read about these issues and make comparative studies between the Shia view and what they sunni says which today is heavily influences by wahhabi thinking.

Why do you persist in referring people to your wrong notions rather than published materials which a lot of people (even outside NL) have had the opportunity of reading and commenting upon

how does one who boasts of "little knowledge" refer to something he hasn't read as "wrong notions"? you use many words to tag and label others.yet you impress with humility.

A human being, WHO IS ALIVE, can act as intercessor by praying for others. A dead person has ceased to be an intercessor
This world is for deeds. No accounting is done here
The hereafter is for accounting. No deed is done there
Even the Prophet's intercession ceased upon his death. He will only resume when everyone is resurrected on the day of Kiyama


Proper Tawassul is by 3 methods
1. Names and attributes of Allah. Allah directed us to call on Him by the most beautiful names

2. Righteous deeds. This is demonstrated by the 3 people who were trapped in the cave

3. By the dua of a righteous person. The woman who had epilepsy who became uncovered when stricken approached the Prophet (PBUH) to pray for her for this. A bedouin asked the Prophet (PBUH) to pray for rain when the Prophet was alive. Upon his death, they did not seek intercession through him again. Indeed they went to Abbas ibn al-Muttalib for to help them pray for rain. Umar (RA) specifically said "We USED to go to our Prophet (PBUH) and ask him to supplicate for us,,,,and now that he (PBUH) has passed on,,,,,,we go to the uncle of our Prophet (PBUH),,,,,,,," Bukhari

BTW, if we could do tawwasul through the dead, it does not make sense to do it through anyone beside the Prophet, the perfect example, the best of mankind

To reiterate, the dead cannot be a means of tawassul



And Allah knows best


Again, the dead cannot help the living

first when we do tawassul we do not expect our answers from people,when dead or alive and whether they actively pray for you or you use their names to reach out to Allah.so you should concentrate on Allah who listens to prayers and knows our intention and not on the people who pray for you or who you approach Allah through them,

secondly,whether dead or alive the honor of the Prophet (sa) and the Ahlul-Bayt (as) whom Allah purified in Quran 33:33 is the same.

in the Quran we are told the following:

Holy Quran 3:169
"Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord";



if the martyrs are honored by Allah in this way.do you think the Prophet Muhammad (sa) is any less of the man whom Allah sent even when he is buried in the grave? i dont think so.the honor of the Prophet (sa) is not affected by death.