yinkabeauty:


It's not about mere having male attributes, she has male genetics 🧬, that's the source and it's permanent not that one lady with mere male attributes will one day lose form because of social habits or lifestyle, but in this case, there is male genes in her and competing with outright female is an undue advantage.

Didn't they prevent Caster Semanya of South Africa 🇿🇦?

Mr, having male genetics doesn't make someone a man, nor does it confer an "undue advantage" in athletic competitions. It's not a matter of "male genes" versus "female genes". Don't know where you get your info from!

Caster was barred from competition due to her attempt to regulate testosterone levels, not because of her genetic makeup. Case of ignorance. Is that the same as this Lady?

Botragelad:
I've been noticing a load of misinformation floating about, and I think it even made it onto the front page at one point. So, I'm just going to lift this(explanation below) straight from a source, not my own work, mind you and give a brief rundown of the whole thing.




It's quite straightforward, really, for those who can be bothered to read and do their research without blindly following the crowd of misinformation.

Below, you'll find photos of her from when she was a youngster, as well as her record. And, might I add, she's had a few fight and come out on the losing end, too.

And for your information, you can't say someone is not a transgender until you ask how the person feels, if he/she feels they are not in the gender they are given from birth , then that's transgender... So you may have to ask her because there is cisgender intersex and there are transgender intersex.

DevilsEqual OALandAgents

Bahamas95:
The vawulence in the front page is epic, I don't even know the doctor to believe now.

this is what I've missed in nairaland for a long time now, intelligent conversation and smart arguement, I've learnt a lot from this thread.

Botragelad:

Well, I'd classify a typical disorder as a condition that impairs normal physiological function, let's say something that causes harm/ dysfunction to the individual.

Thank you, but from your description of mosaicism, don't you think it can potentially impair physiological functions?

Botragelad:

Mr, having male genetics doesn't make someone a man, nor does it confer an "undue advantage" in athletic competitions. It's not a matter of "male genes" versus "female genes". Don't know where you get your info from!

Caster was barred from competition due to her attempt to regulate testosterone levels, not because of her genetic makeup. Case of ignorance. Is that the same as this Lady?

You are so ignoramus and you are arguing as if you know and you don't know anything, you are an egoistic nonentity in this matter and I will lecture you.

First and foremost, you are spitting thrash and misinformation for saying caster Semanya was barred because of her attempt to regulate testosterone level , you are saying nonsense, it's the authority that wants to reduce her testosterone level because it's beyond the female level...and that's the gist...

For your information again to that your stubborn head, this case and that of Semanya fall in the same category of intersex, mumu , if a female shares genetically what should be males' that's intersex, vice versa OLODO , it's not only restricted to sexual organs....any genetics of the opposite that gives you the characterstics of the opposite sex render you intersex , olodo everywhere, i purposely pursed here to educate ignoramuses like you.
Mumu, it's the genetic make up that gives the permanent characterstics of a person.

Ijaya123

Botragelad:
I've been noticing a load of misinformation floating about, and I think it even made it onto the front page at one point. So, I'm just going to lift this(explanation below) straight from a source, not my own work, mind you and give a brief rundown of the whole thing.




It's quite straightforward, really, for those who can be bothered to read and do their own research without blindly following the crowd of misinformation.

Below, you'll find photos of her from when she was a youngster, as well as her record. And, might I add, she's had a few fight and come out on the losing end, too.

So why was Caster Semenya banned from participating in the last Olympics?

madridguy:
You have done so well bringing it here. I'm laughing seeing some people thinking Muslim country will send a transgender to represent them.

Its surprising Imane Khelif who has been defeated by five other women, is being falsely labeled as a man. But she too crush that Italian lady.

When you feel that you don't belong to the gender you are attributed at birth , that's transgender, so what's this Muslim country bla bla bla..... Is it terrorism or banditry.
FYI, intersex is even worse off than transgender because unlike transgender which is majorly about feeling intersex is actually you possesing the genetics of the other sex which can give undue advantage incase of female sports ...so intersex is the real anomaly not even transgender you guys are insinuating.



Botragelad

Ijaya123:


So why was Caster Semenya banned from participating in the last Olympics?

attempt to regulate testosterone levels

Botragelad:

You can be a pregnant woman and have XY chromosome. You know that right? So does it make them any less of a woman?
I can also tell you that sex chromosomes are not the sole determinant of a person's sex or gender. XY chromosomes don't automatically make someone "male". It's complex.

And what about individuals with variations like XXY, XYY, or Turner syndrome? Do they not fit into your "male" or "female" boxes? It's like you've never heard of intersex conditions or the nuances of human biology.

So please kindly explain to me how does not having XY chromosomes automatically disqualify someone from competing in women's sports. I await your response. Thanks!

Don't mix issues there are autosomal defectss & chromosomal defects.

Genetic issues can give rise to your expression or characteristics being affected, which doesn't connect directly with sexualities (autosomal defects)

There also ones which affect you sex chromosomes which after being affected will alter your sexuality, don't forget this is not deletion of gene but an addition of gene "Y" chromosomes which gives male their sexual chacteristics...who cares if you can still do one or two things your gender normally do!? but on the other hand your genetic make up is not natural/ abnormal, you are carrying "Y" chromosomes which confers on you some undue advantage period! This is different from some ladies who are just strong or go to gym, this one is genetics giving you male advantage, common!


Pjtech

GreatVocalist:

Thank you, but from your description of mosaicism, don't you think it can potentially impair physiological functions?

I'd say it can lead to variations in cellular function, this does not necessarily equate to impairment.

Tell you what, many examples of mosaicism result in enhanced physiological function.
Plus, the body adapts for cellular differences, this way it ensures that physiological function remains intact.

Let me give you an illustration, picture a skilled orchestra, where individual musicians (cells) may play slightly different melodies (mosaicism), yet the overall rhyme (physiological function) remain cohesive. Did you get that?

Botragelad:

Why do you choose to focus on Turner syndrome which I only used as an example. Why not address the main issue?

Sex and gender, these two exist on spectrums, with variations in chromosomes, Instruments, hormones, whatever you think of. When you say "male" and "female" will you also say the only fruits are apple and orange.

I already said this. Yes, turner syndrome individuals are indeed female, and hermaphrodites(please call them intersex individuals), and they do not fit into your binary classification either. They may identify as male, female, or non-binary, depending on their biology and identity. How's that so confusing?

So much ado for absolute rubbish. Trying so hard to make sense of nonsense will get nobody no where. Sex is binary according to biology.
Now during birth we can have complications resulting in variations: these are anomalies.

But in all these, the contention has never been about people born with complications, the issue is about biological males competing in women sports. That should never be accepted.

People may have wrongly assumed the Algerian was a trans, but I'm sure their position would differ if the learn that this individual had a unique biological condition

What are you even saying?
Y chromosome defines your masculinity.
If you have just Y chromosome, you are a male,
If you have just X chromosome, you are a female.

You are a complete male if you have XY chromosomes.

I studied embryology for years

Mullerian and wolffian factors stemmed from this.

Botragelad:

Who said it makes them male? I asked you a question whether or not it ticks your male and female box. You clearly didn't read to understand my previous response.

Now turner syndrome, is a condition where a female is born with only one X chromosome (45,X instead of 46,XX). And, for your information they're still female! How can that be, you ask? Well.

In my previous response I explained that sex chromosomes aren't the only determining factor for sex or gender! It's a complex. And in Turner syndrome, the presence of a single X chromosome still triggers the development of female characteristics.

So, simple sense tell you that having only one X chromosome doesn't make someone male. That's like saying a car with three wheels is a bicycle. It's a bloody nonsense!

And another thing you should know, Turner syndrome individuals are still women, with female Instruments and secondary sex characteristics. They might have some developmental issues, but that doesn't change their sex or gender. Do you understand now?

justli:


So much ado for absolute rubbish. Trying so hard to make sense of nonsense will get nobody no where. Sex is binary according to biology.
Now during birth we can have complications resulting in variations: these are anomalies.

But in all these, the contention has never been about people born with complications, the issue is about biological males competing in women sports. That should never be accepted.

People may have wrongly assumed the Algerian was a trans, but I'm sure their position would differ if the learn that this individual had a unique biological condition

Okay. You made no point here.

You failed to explain how that lady is a biological male competing in women sport! 🤷‍♂️

Tisong007:
What are you even saying?
Y chromosome defines your masculinity.
If you have just Y chromosome, you are a male,
If you have just X chromosome, you are a female.

You are a complete male if you have XY chromosomes.

I studied embryology for years

Mullerian and wolffian factors stemmed from this.

Oh boy, where do I even begin with this! 😂

Listen, embryology student. The presence of a Y chromosome does not automatically confer masculinity, neither does the presence of an X chromosome guarantee femininity. And as for your "complete male" with XY chromosomes, well, that's just laughable. I stated this on the first page.

Have you never heard of androgen insensitivity syndrome, where an individual with XY chromosomes develops as female? Or what about Klinefelter syndrome, where an individual with XXY chromosomes presents with a range of characteristics?

And don't even get me started on the complexity of Mullerian and Wolffian ducts. Yes, they're influenced by sex chromosomes, but they're also subject to array of hormonal factors that can't be reduced to a simple "Y = male" equation.

You've studied embryology for years, have you? Well, I suppose that's cute. But let me tell you, you've only scratched the surface of the world of human biology. Study more. You seem to have limited knowledge!

Botragelad:

Who said it makes them male? I asked you a question whether or not it ticks your male and female box. You clearly didn't read to understand my previous response.

Now turner syndrome, is a condition where a female is born with only one X chromosome (45,X instead of 46,XX). And, for your information they're still female! How can that be, you ask? Well.

In my previous response I explained that sex chromosomes aren't the only determining factor for sex or gender! It's a complex. And in Turner syndrome, the presence of a single X chromosome still triggers the development of female characteristics.

So, simple sense tell you that having only one X chromosome doesn't make someone male. That's like saying a car with three wheels is a bicycle. It's a bloody nonsense!

And another thing you should know, Turner syndrome individuals are still women, with female Instruments and secondary sex characteristics. They might have some developmental issues, but that doesn't change their sex or gender. Do you understand now?

Don't give yourself unnecessary headache , having single x chromosomes through deletion instead of two x chromosomes won't make you a man because y chromosomes (male chromosome is not there), the key factor is the presence or absence of y chromosomes..

And a woman with only one x chromosomes is still a woman but with some effects and as long as their is no y chromosomes in her, she is still a woman but with y chromosomes she will exhibit that y chromosomes traits as well...

What nonsense are you saying , do you think biology is mechanic, if you convert four wheel vehicle to 3 , it doesn't turn it to keke marwa, have you forgot that any biological change or alteration will generate effect because it's life and not a non living thing like engine.

And this what you are saying that other factors lead to sexuality tell us any other thing apart from genetic or sex chromosomes..


Pjtech

Thanks for taking the time to explain this

Botragelad:

😂 What's special Olympics for these people!🤷‍♂️
Were you not taught that having XY chromosomes doesn't make someone "half male and half female"? It's akin to saying a person with brown eyes is half-blind. Are they? Chromosomes don't work that way!

Now differences in sex development (DSDs) can't be reduced to your idea of "unfair advantage". It's not a game, where you can just create a separate league for those who don't fit the binary mold. Where did "unique" come from?
Will you suggest a separate classroom for kids with blonde hair because they're "different" from Africa kids? No.

Look your athletic performance is influenced by training, and whatever you are taught, etc. It's not just XY vs XX issue. And even if it were, would we then create separate leagues for those with "advantageous" muscle distributions? Where does this bloody nonsense end?

You guys are something else on here.

You talk as if you have sense and you are not with this your irrelevant examples,....how can you compare people having an undue advantage because of their abnormal genetic make up to africans players vs European players , blonde vs dark hair ? How does these constitute undue advantage like ladies carrying male genetics?
Who among the athletes don't go to gym, no matter the training, can a male and female exposed to the same facilities and training be on the same level ....the male or ones with male genetics will always have the advantage.

Afterall there is categorising of sports men and women based on their age, MRI scan, we dont want this in this category because of age, bones MRI scan, e.t.c
This segregation because of undue advantage of the intersex people especially in female sports is a valid one.
Testerone level , gender testing and what have you can form a yard stick for categorization and it's not discrimination but categorization why don't they put FEATHER WEIGHT in HEAVY weight category in boxing 🥊 for example even though when the people are of the same gender or age, but with different weight they are put in the DIFFERENT categories ...
FYI, there is always a range of acceptance of any factor under consideration be it age, MRI, testosterone, weight, since all athletes can be in the same level but if your conditions is far ahead and abnormal as we have in intersex then categorization is bound to happen, afterall Caster Semanya of South Africa 🇿🇦 was barred.


brain54

Botragelad:

😂 What's special Olympics for these people!🤷‍♂️
Were you not taught that having XY chromosomes doesn't make someone "half male and half female"? It's akin to saying a person with brown eyes is half-blind. Are they? Chromosomes don't work that way!

Now differences in sex development (DSDs) can't be reduced to your idea of "unfair advantage". It's not a game, where you can just create a separate league for those who don't fit the binary mold. Where did "unique" come from?
Will you suggest a separate classroom for kids with blonde hair because they're "different" from Africa kids? No.

Look your athletic performance is influenced by training, and whatever you are taught, etc. It's not just XY vs XX issue. And even if it were, would we then create separate leagues for those with "advantageous" muscle distributions? Where does this bloody nonsense end?

You guys are something else on here.

Botragelad:

😂 What's special Olympics for these people!🤷‍♂️
Were you not taught that having XY chromosomes doesn't make someone "half male and half female"? It's akin to saying a person with brown eyes is half-blind. Are they? Chromosomes don't work that way!

Now differences in sex development (DSDs) can't be reduced to your idea of "unfair advantage". It's not a game, where you can just create a separate league for those who don't fit the binary mold. Where did "unique" come from?
Will you suggest a separate classroom for kids with blonde hair because they're "different" from Africa kids? No.

Look your athletic performance is influenced by training, and whatever you are taught, etc. It's not just XY vs XX issue. And even if it were, would we then create separate leagues for those with "advantageous" muscle distributions? Where does this bloody nonsense end?

You guys are something else on here.

You talk as if you have sense and you are not with this your irrelevant examples,....how can you compare people having an undue advantage because of their abnormal genetic make up to africans players vs European players , blonde vs dark hair ? How does these constitute undue advantage like ladies carrying male genetics?
Who among the athletes don't go to gym, no matter the training, can a male and female exposed to the same facilities and training be on the same level ....the male or ones with male genetics will always have the advantage.

Afterall there is categorising of sports men and women based on their age, MRI scan, we dont want this in this category because of age, bones MRI scan, e.t.c
This segregation because of undue advantage of the intersex people especially in female sports is a valid one.
Testerone level , gender testing and what have you can form a yard stick for categorization and it's not discrimination but categorization why don't they put FEATHER WEIGHT in HEAVY weight category in boxing 🥊 for example even though when the people are of the same gender or age, but with different weight they are put in the DIFFERENT categories ...
FYI, there is always a range of acceptance of any factor under consideration be it age, MRI, testosterone, weight, since all athletes can be in the same level but if your conditions is far ahead and abnormal as we have in intersex then categorization is bound to happen, afterall Caster Semanya of South Africa 🇿🇦 was barred.


brain54

I hope you know androgen insensitivity clinically affects genetic males and it doesn't affect genetic females.

Maybe you haven't heard of the word MUTATION.

Listen, your GENOTYPE and environment determine your PHENOTYPE.

If she is XY, maybe due to mutation, which is not possible clinically, I can categorically tell you that she is a male.

Clinically affected mutation on sex chromosome could be due to dysjunction as in the case of Klinefelter syndrome XXY.

As a matter of fact, klinefelter's person is considered a male because the male sex organ is functional and the female is not functional but just there. I could call it vestigial.

A triple x (Bleep) syndrome patient is considered a female.

Does that make sense to you?

Thanks for confirming that the wolffian and mullerian factors are influenced by sex chromosomes.

Just rest.




quote author=Botragelad post=131295313]
Oh boy, where do I even begin with this! 😂

Listen, embryology student. The presence of a Y chromosome does not automatically confer masculinity, neither does the presence of an X chromosome guarantee femininity. And as for your "complete male" with XY chromosomes, well, that's just laughable. I stated this on the first page.

Have you never heard of androgen insensitivity syndrome, where an individual with XY chromosomes develops as female? Or what about Klinefelter syndrome, where an individual with XXY chromosomes presents with a range of characteristics?

And don't even get me started on the complexity of Mullerian and Wolffian ducts. Yes, they're influenced by sex chromosomes, but they're also subject to array of hormonal factors that can't be reduced to a simple "Y = male" equation.

You've studied embryology for years, have you? Well, I suppose that's cute. But let me tell you, you've only scratched the surface of the world of human biology. Study more. You seem to have limited knowledge! [/quote]

Botragelad:

attempt to regulate testosterone levels

Is the Algerian boxer not regulating his/her testosterone level?

Ijaya123:


Is the Algerian boxer not regulating his/her testosterone level?

Lol how?
Pls don't embarrass yourself any further.

Tisong007:
I hope you know androgen insensitivity clinically affects genetic males and it doesn't affect genetic females.

Maybe you haven't heard of the word MUTATION.

Listen, your GENOTYPE and environment determine your PHENOTYPE.

If she is XY, maybe due to mutation, which is not possible clinically, I can categorically tell you that she is a male.

Clinically affected mutation on sex chromosome could be due to dysjunction as in the case of Klinefelter syndrome XXY.

As a matter of fact, klinefelter's person is considered a male because the male sex organ is functional and the female is not functional but just there. I could call it vestigial.

A triple x (Bleep) syndrome patient is considered a female.

Does that make sense to you?

Thanks for confirming that the wolffian and mullerian factors are influenced by sex chromosomes.

Just rest.

Okay you just confirmed my statement that the presence of a Y chromosome does not automatically confer masculinity, neither does the presence of an X chromosome guarantee femininity. Correct? Lol

Botragelad:

Why do you choose to focus on Turner syndrome which I only used as an example. Why not address the main issue?

Sex and gender, these two exist on spectrums, with variations in chromosomes, Instruments, hormones, whatever you think of. When you say "male" and "female" will you also say the only fruits are apple and orange.

I already said this. Yes, turner syndrome individuals are indeed female, and hermaphrodites(please call them intersex individuals), and they do not fit into your binary classification either. They may identify as male, female, or non-binary, depending on their biology and identity. How's that so confusing?

There is difference between intersex and hermaphrodite, although when the term hermaphrodite is used socially to refer to intersex people it's derogatory and misleading in that while both are similar in that they both possess factors/ attributes of both genders in one body but hermaphrodite is specifically when one organism has both male sexual gamete and female sexual gamete but intersex is not restricted to sexual gamete only but any attribute of both genders on or in one body caused by genetics is referred to intersex.
Hermaphrodite naturally occurs in some organisms like snail and earthworms but it's rare in human.
Intersex is more common in human.

Pjtech



[/quote]

OALandAgents:
Not trans, considered intersex but is genetically and physiologically like an adult male complete with a healthy pair of functional testes, which is responsible for producing male levels of testosterone.

lol greatest crap of bullshit I heard my life... Continuing twisting human physiology better go back to school

Ijaya123:


Is the Algerian boxer not regulating his/her testosterone level?

you want to ruin her life abi... God create person like that una dey talk about hormonal regulation

Tisong007:
I hope you know androgen insensitivity clinically affects genetic males and it doesn't affect genetic females.

Maybe you haven't heard of the word MUTATION.

Listen, your GENOTYPE and environment determine your PHENOTYPE.

If she is XY, maybe due to mutation, which is not possible clinically, I can categorically tell you that she is a male.

Clinically affected mutation on sex chromosome could be due to dysjunction as in the case of Klinefelter syndrome XXY.

As a matter of fact, klinefelter's person is considered a male because the male sex organ is functional and the female is not functional but just there. I could call it vestigial.

A triple x (Bleep) syndrome patient is considered a female.

Does that make sense to you?

Thanks for confirming that the wolffian and mullerian factors are influenced by sex chromosomes.

Just rest.




quote author=Botragelad post=131295313]
Oh boy, where do I even begin with this! 😂

Listen, embryology student. The presence of a Y chromosome does not automatically confer masculinity, neither does the presence of an X chromosome guarantee femininity. And as for your "complete male" with XY chromosomes, well, that's just laughable. I stated this on the first page.

Have you never heard of androgen insensitivity syndrome, where an individual with XY chromosomes develops as female? Or what about Klinefelter syndrome, where an individual with XXY chromosomes presents with a range of characteristics?

And don't even get me started on the complexity of Mullerian and Wolffian ducts. Yes, they're influenced by sex chromosomes, but they're also subject to array of hormonal factors that can't be reduced to a simple "Y = male" equation.

You've studied embryology for years, have you? Well, I suppose that's cute. But let me tell you, you've only scratched the surface of the world of human biology. Study more. You seem to have limited knowledge!

no be only mutation u for call am segregation... You are just spilling crap she is a girl full stop... Stop letting this genetic fool you... William bateson sef no be like you... XY chromosome abi person with additional chromosome down syndrome no be human being dem be let's learn to embrace each other you can see they showed pictures she is a girl u are still talking nonsense I be you think a country like Algeria 20 years ago dey do gender reassignment

Botragelad:

Mr, having male genetics doesn't make someone a man, nor does it confer an "undue advantage" in athletic competitions. It's not a matter of "male genes" versus "female genes". Don't know where you get your info from!

Caster was barred from competition due to her attempt to regulate testosterone levels, not because of her genetic makeup. Case of ignorance. Is that the same as this Lady?

me wey I get big bumbum and pink lips shay na female u go call me... Una better leave those ones...

DevilsEqual:


How can she be intersex when she doesnt have any male reproductive organ

She just has a high testosterone level

Testosterone produced by what gland? her ovaries?

Please wake up and call a spade "a spade"

The mere fact that a chromosome test read XY what is there to argue again?

CHARLATAN

sprints1:
no be only mutation u for call am segregation... You are just spilling crap she is a girl full stop... Stop letting this genetic fool you... William bateson sef no be like you... XY chromosome abi person with additional chromosome down syndrome no be human being dem be let's learn to embrace each other you can see they showed pictures she is a girl u are still talking nonsense I be you think a country like Algeria 20 years ago dey do gender reassignment

PJtech:


Stop being delusional. There're nothing like non-binary

If it's not "male" then its definitely "female"

You and your lots can't change that fact

You don't have to be emotional, non - binary is used for those who don't feel identified with any of the two genders, male/female , it's more of a social concept.
And on the other hand,
if we are to go biological, intersex are somewhat non- binary although they don't ascribe the term to them because human being is in between two sexes and can choose the sex he/she leans into depending on preference, sometimes operations are done especially if it's an external defect to correct this before they are properly placed in male or female definition.


Botragelad

PJtech:


FYI genetic sex is like word and opposites. If it's not "good" then its "bad", if it's not "open" then its "close". Stop bringing other narratives

And yes there are people with XXY or XYY which is irregularities in chromosomes that happens in rare cases both in plants and animals.

XXY has a dominant of XX chromosomes and they're identified as females
XYY has a dominant of XY chromosomes and they're identified as females

And it also happens in animals and plants.. Except you'll tell me that such animals or plants are also non binary

Don't let the term "non binary" worry you, are you for intellectual debate or you are being political like those coconut 🥥 head people who don't want to reason because of their hatred for LGBTQI people, so when they hear anything "non-binary" they go berserk...we are not doing that here.

It doesn't matter the percentage, all we care for is its reality, intersex exist, and it's not one sided as you claimed sometimes an individual can be more of male and less of female or more or female and less of male and can also be equal in phenotypes, morphology..so can't you technically describe those people as "non binary " forget the term afterall, scientists can fabricate another term for it , afterall the term INTERSEX does it not define itself enough? INTER (BETWEEN) SEX(SEX) not binding to male or female outrightly ...in between, non binary..e.t.c
In animals you mentioned where do you put hermaphrodites who possess both male and female features? Do you call them male organism or female organism or hermaphrodite(non binary, technically)? Are you joking!?


Botragelad